Tha Black Phenom
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Posts posted by Tha Black Phenom
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Screw it, I'll just say it.. just wait and see. Of course, those who are tuning off seem they were never all that enamored with WWE to begin with and were checking in for the hype.. this is a hype backlash situation to say the least. But this screams much more to it. i don't think WWE(hell, even TNA!) could be that short-sighted and put this all out there without it there being something behind it. And I don't mean to put the guy on a pedestal, but Chris Jericho knows what he's doing.
All I'm gonna say is this, those who didn't like the segment at all... watch it again. Seriously give it a second try. I know how most people felt here when it aired, and some posters here actually pointed it out... uncomfortable and awkward to a tee. And then it left most of us very sour. It left me quite sour. Consider all things, go back on youtube and watch that part again. You may see things you haven't seen before - and if not the case, so be it. I certainly do not expect everyone to sit well with this, even if jericho himself walked up to them and told them exactly how it's gonna go down.
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Vince and Jericho think ALL fans who post on the internet are morons who want WWE to fail, and that they all deserve the big F.U. which is actually not true. I wanted WWE to entertain me and it is becoming more apparent that just isn't going to happen because they're more interested in their "F*** the Internet" era so I'll invest my time in something else.
Not all of them are as described in your quote, but.. a good majority don't help their case. You know, when jericho's twitter is attacked by a horde of bloggers and rabid know-it-alls. or when the promos are being deciphered and decimated all throughout youtube.
And really? "**** the Internet" era? You obviously didn't watch the Raw after TLC. it was almost booked like a smark's wet dream, with three of the IWC's poster boys closing the show. only it's not even a one-time thing, those three guys are actually holding major/singles titles right now.
Jericho's return.. I'm not gonna say anything about it yet, because it may reenact a tired argument I don't wanna enduce again. but for the record, it hasn't sat 100% well with me either, yet.
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http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/2011_Main_Event_Stats_on_Cena_and_Orton_Maryse_Appears_at_Wrestling_Event.html
I thought this was interesting. They say Orton actually had more main event television matches than Cena. How long until the fans start getting bored with him and HIS 5 moves of doom?
Maybe a while, because Orton's actually laid down for guys like Ziggler, Miz, Christian and Barrett. (You could say Cena has too, but he's a longer lasting effect for obv reasons)
That said, I find Cena slightly more exciting to watch in the ring than Orton.
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Damn, Hendricks. Damn.
I guess Lesnar's situation was still a factor into things? sad to see him hang 'em up, and I guess there'll be no NFL tryouts this time.
Did I hear right about Overeem being DLC or was I hearing things?
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Yeah it bothers me too and its really minor so it shouldnt but it does because I grew up in 90's and back then champions always came out last no matter if they were a face or a heel.
There were still some moments where they did differently, though.. if I remember, Rock came out first in his WM15 match against Austin. So overall I'm really not bothered by this aspect anymore. Though it would be nice to have the heel champ come out last more often.
Time to pull the trigger on Sheamus, can't believe how long that guy's been floating around in the middle for. I swear, it's been like over three PPVs this year where he stepped in for an impromptu PPV match.
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Comeon lol. COLE is the reason the guy's champion???
Bryan Danielson one of the best wrestlers I've EVER seen in my life. An all around amazing performer who has done great work. Now his WWE stuff has been decidedly less "balls-to-the-wall" for lack of a better phrase, but he's actually transitions very well into their style of storytelling and performance.
Now of course I understand he hasn't done it alone. Good angles and good opponents have helped him rise. I suppose commentary as well. But I simply do not agree at all with the idea that MICHEAL COLE is the sole reason Daniel Bryan has a belt. I'm sorry. Cole has ripped too many people just as hard for that to be a valid reason for anything. Under that logic, A-Ry should be bigger than John Cena right now.
Personally, I'm not taking anything away from him. Bryan is one of the most talented around, but you and I both know talent alone doesn't cut it in the WWE. Among the many factors you need, you need that "hook" that captures the fans' attention, whether related to their gimmick or demeanor. At the top of the mountain in WWE's history has reigned the talentless and the talented.
Yeah, Bryan has transitioned well to their style.. that's the minimal requirement to keep his job. that can't be the end of it. Cole's contribution was vital in his rise to the top, because it was part of Bryan's schtick.. being the sympathetic babyface ith a dreadful W/L record throughout the year, which only added to what Cole was saying. Take that away from him, and what does he have? Exactly. If you tell me sheer talent, then it just likens him to another Benoit, MVP or pre-2011 Christian who've wandered around for years with workrate only to their name.
I don't see why Cole assisting in getting Bryan over is such a negative thing, anyway. That's his job isn't it? Giving him full credit is garbage, but he does deserve a little bit of recognition. Just like Jr. deserves some credit when it comes to getting guys like SCSA over. Same with Brain / Flair, and several other workers who have received help from announcers in getting their gimmicks over.Cole is here for the long-run, okay cool DB shouldn't have a problem remaining WHW champion then, since Cole is the reason he is champion. I think fans can live with that.
Agreed on all counts.
Anyone who claims Michael Cole is the reason Daniel Bryan is World champion is so beyond clueless as to simply be impossible to take seriously. And if it's an attempt at trolling, the conclusion is the same, because it's such a desperate cry for attention.Wah.
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Cole certainly did his part in putting over Bryan, and I'm sure Bryan's demeanor alone wouldn't have cut it. Especially with his MITB run. I mean hell, half of Bryan's standout promos involve or come from him shutting Michael Cole up, or trying to. The constant badgering from Cole involved him talking about his character and made him sympathetic - heck it's basically what Bryan had. It's a classic "woobie" persona, which had to be validated through Cole, given his role.
Now as for Cole himself, his status is very hot and cold for me. On the longer scale his commentary annoys me, he gets tedious and overbearing at certain points, but he's done his fair share for certain characters, the way he's talked about them. namely miz, Ryder, Bryan and to a lesser extent other up and comers.
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Michael Cole's commentary has gotten 10x more entertaining now. His constant lamenting at the sight of Ryder, Bryan and Punk as champions is just downright enjoyable and priceless, especially as he's been rubbing in the fact for months that Ryder and Bryan weren't gonna get anywhere, and at many times it actually looked like it.
So many quotables during the main-event and the champions' entrances, but what stood out to me is when Punk climbed the announce table to end the show, and Cole hurls repeatedly with "why are you doing this to us?!?"
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A weak champ is still a world champ. if you do like Danielson a lot, just be happy for what it is..
Yeah, there was a build up to it. No momentum to it is probably the right term. And even there, Bryan trying to cash in on Henry, and actually getting a legit World title shot(earning it cleanly) showed there was minimal build-up at the least.
And damn, you just named two examples which are even worse, where there was next to no build up involved whatsoever - Swagger was on a losing streak before winning MITB and Punk looked weak before and after his first win. So what's the problem? It's nothing we haven't seen before. A weak champ is still a world champ, so long as he gets the main storyline on SD! and PPV spots all the way through it's more than we could've asked for. Depending on whether he'll headline Mania with it or not is what matters.
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CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, both World champs.. even today, it comes across as a surreal pill to swallow. To add on top of it all, no Cena tonight. I wonder if it was a test run to see if WWE star power/booking can be sustained without him?
Overall good PPV, can't believe there's been technically 10 matches tonight(if you count Bryan/Show).
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And don't even get me started on the idea that Punk getting a comically tainted win over Cena at SummerSlam before being cashed in on by ADR with the help of Nash texting himself, and then Punk and Cena going off in different directions was somehow a proper end to that feud.
I didn't feel the ending was fine either which has more to do with their lack of continuity nod, which is often apparent. And them not hyping the fact that Punk did __. The rest though is pretty subjective and that's where we'll agree to disagree.. I just don't think there was a "golden" opportunity to do anything more outside of what they did.
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What do you mean by this?
That their plan looked like it was gonna round up at SummerSlam.. the supposed second big PPV of the year. The timing was very narrow with Punk leaving at MITB.. they needed a main-event for the PPV and what most people suggested here was a filler main-event in Cena vs. Mysterio. To allow Punk to continue his off-road shenanigans. But instead, when I watched SummerSlam and the promo for Punk/Cena II came up, it all made out to be an actual elaborate angle with time invested into it, a beginning, middle and fitting end.
I don't know what the hell they would've showed if they settled for an uninspired face vs. face match-up at a staple PPV. It's not that I think the angle was flawless, if it were up to me I wouldn't have had Del Rio cash in then.. it's just that there were little ways to go around how it actually went, is all. (unless you bring a prop (read: another worker) in the fray)
Then they put Kane in some stupid angles that didn't really make sense. But his MitB run two years ago was pretty awesome. When they put the spotlight on him, I personally was happy with the result.
Anyway, point is, I don't feel Kane is one repackage after another. Or, in other words, he shouldn't be. The guy's a brilliant worker and in my opinion deserves a good angle and not a crappy re-hash that will most likely be forgotten in a few months.
I don't know exactly what you disagreed with me on, unless it was how cheaply I made Kane's career sound. But to note I'm a fan of Kane's workrate as well, he is a solid worker to say the least. Just to me that's what his career comes across as, chapters of re-packaging bursts into relevancy. Full of stupid angles which you mentioned and genuine storylines where he made the best of them. Shouldn't be? Arguably yeah, a guy like him should've been given more to work with, but it's him who put himself in that positon and he's been quite comfortable with it so I won't knock.
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Except the Punk storyline did get screwed up. At the time, anyone who even hinted at the idea that WWE would screw up the Punk storyline was ragged on for it, and they wound up being right. I know it's a comforting feeling to stick your fingers in your ears when people talk negatively so you can remain in your own little bubble where it's all sunshine and flowers, but history, especially recent history, shows that the people who give WWE the benefit of the doubt are far more likely to be wrong than those who don't and are critical from the beginning. You might find it annoying, and you might cross your arms and fume that they're just being negative, but they're usually right. And they were right with the Punk storyline. It did get bungled. So, swing and miss a there.
Even looking back on it, the angle culminated where it should've and looking where Punk is.. where it got bungled must seem arguably facetious now. Then, with Christian playing second fiddle to a top star... "they" were right yet again, I presume? He indeed got shafted big time, eh.
For the Kane issue, I would've only had a problem with it if Kane was in consistently greener pastures as of recent terms. Aside from last year and a few other moments, there's nothing much to shout about. The thing is, this is Kane's career in a nutshell... re-packaging him every few months with something different to see where that ends up. Only this time, it's gonna be with the mask. I see it as chapter 178 of Kane's rollercoaster of a career. It does feel hollow though because this time it's just "Kane with the mask!" as opposed to their last attempt when there was actually a teasing buildup around it.. only to be swerved into another result.
As for Punk, well I'm pretty sure wrestlers every once in a while are gonna have bad days(with the travel they're dealing with..), and they're gonna have days where they just can't crack a smile. I'm sure fan pictures weren't too jovial around the time the Raw roster was stuck overseas a few years back.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="nucleardonkey" data-cite="nucleardonkey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Overall it was a good PPV but it didn't have that MSG feel of being something truly special. It needed that one WOW moment and being the 20th anniversary of Taker's debut, the chance to give a possible future super star his first major title reign, the perfect crowd to make the top face into the top heel they had the perfect crowd to make any of those 3 moments (Taker's return, Dragon's first world title, or Cena's heel turn) into that WOW moment that makes MSG shows so special.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think the last MSG show was a bit of a dud so I didn't think much of that, but I see what you mean. To me, the somewhat WOW moment was The Rock's performance(and maybe his promo). Last match of the night and he showed he still got it.</p><p> </p><p> Solid PPV, and equally stoked about Punk winning the title.</p>
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It does cause some problems, though. For one, I'm not sure how many people are looking forward to a HHH & Nash program. And two, I'm not really buying Awesome Truth as this monster team that needs Cena to team with The Rock to overcome them. To me, Awesome Truth is still just a silly comedy team that raps about conspiracies and Little Jimmies, they're not some menacing force. I'd be much happier if Zig Swag had gotten this big push, or, even better, if they would have partnered Ziggler with The Miz. Oh well.
They're not meant to be a menacing force by any means, just some persistent troublemaking pests that need to be taken care of.. because of their numerous attacks and amazingly piss poor security staff. IMO it's a solid heel role to have, emphasized by their amount of screentime and exposure lately.
I don't think anyone expects them to be a threat, question might just be "will Rock and Cena be able to coexist".
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Despite the fact they advertised it all tap-dancing night.. at least there's a scenario behind the team-up.
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Disagree. WINNING a feud with Orton gives Rhodes a rub. Being in matches with Main Eventers does not make them a main eventer. That's like the Royals winning 1 out of 4 against the Yankees and people saying the Royals got the rub just by playing them. Yes I know sports are different, but it's more or less the same concept.
No it isn't.. it couldn't be further from the same concept.
Sports teams don't have a status to uphold in the same manner. A superstar's status has to have a reliable story behind it. When a midcarder is rising up the ranks, it's often by riding the coattails of the much higher star above him.
If Orton squashed Rhodes in five minutes, yes that would be atrocity and a keeping down talent, and blah blah. But Cody's going toe-to-toe with multiple-time world champion the Viper, with sneak attacks behind it. That's what used to elevate him, and it works.
Hell yeah, winning will help Rhodes a ton. In time. They're developing Rhodes, cause they're giving him spots they wouldn't give other guys on the roster easily. If he keeps going with good workrate, they'll continue headlining him with Orton and eventually likely get a win.
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Are we still playing the "wait and see" game with Orton's feuds? I forgot. Christian says hi, by the way.
Christian says hi, from his much more established position than ever before. Unless you rather had him be this year's Jack Swagger.
They're developing Cody's acension right now. I thoroughly believe they'll go at it again for SS. Of course, if Cody doesn't get his due, it's not like it'll bother me much.
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Maybe because Cody is gonna go at it long-term with Randy...
Nothing wrong about Ryder losing, him getting a PPV spot should be the headlines. lol. The superkick was well done anyway.
Punk well.. I can't ignore the backseat on him anymore, bit of a shame but he will get his due pretty quickly. This chapter is clearly to elevate Miz/Truth.
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I think it would've been even more pointless had Cena won...
Not the best PPV but the two World title matches weren't bad at all. That said, the 64K question remains: which was more mangled after last night, the ring or HHH's neck?
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Raw wasn't special at all, but R-Truth and Dolph may have moved up on my list. I'll say that much.
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I'm not a big fan of Rhodes right now. I think his promos are hit-and-miss, and I hate his character. I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to listen to a handsome guy complain about how disfigured he is/has been when he's wearing a clear mask that shows he is still as handsome as he ever was.
I'm a huge mark for Dolph Ziggler, though. I think his body language is top-notch, his promos are more than good enough, and his selling is maybe the best in the WWE. He's shows great heel mannerisms, and with his ability to sell, I imagine he'd make a great undersized babyface that struggles to take down the bigger heels.
Well here's something I can agree on. In fact, the only reason Ziggler's not in my top 5 yet is cause he's missing that tiny little thing that can send him over the moon. Great mic skills, he just misses that little bang to his promos that can make them rewatchable, whether a catchphrase or something else. But the quip one-liners are already a good touch.
Cody.. he's good no doubt, has a lot of potential. My gripe with him is that voice of his... sounds so cartoonish sometimes. Though you could say maybe it belongs in the realm of WWE, but sometimes he even switches from that voice to normal and it just sounds.. off. Work a bit on that, work on that receipt line maybe and he'll win me over as well.
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CM Punk - No doubt, he's been my go-to guy for the past few years. I liked him since day one but ever since his heel turn against Jeff Hardy, I've gotten even more enticed with him.
Sheamus - Great, great talent. Nothing much to say about him, he's brought his own since he won the WWE title and you can see the hardwork he's went through to shine in the ring and on the mic.
Christian - So glad he finally got the big one, even if it was in such a manner. I envisioned him disgruntedly leaving the company again with Vince not giving him a chance. But he's a two-time world champ and that's now in the history books.
Wade Barrett - Another potential star who I hope gets his due soon.
Alberto Del Rio - I actually soured on this guy once he won the title. When he was Mr. MITB, his promos started to dwindle back into generic heelness. But lately he's been showing sings that he's getting somewhere, as champion. His promo with Bret Hart got me back into liking him, and even my best friend who I showed the clip(he lost interest in wrestling years ago) quickly became a fan of this guy while watching the Del Rio/Bret/Cena promo.
Honorable mentions... Dolph Ziggler(def #6), R-Truth, Daniel Bryan and Triple H. You could say Orton as well.. indeed, when he chases the title, he's somewhat entertaining.
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...what?
What has changed? John Cena is still being fed title shots, CM Punk still (at least in his character's eyes) has to feel underutilized, guys like Mason Ryan are still getting an absurd amount of TV time while guys like Colt Cabana still can't crack the WWE (he was given a "try out" about a month ago and now the WWE won't take his calls), the amount of actual wrestling on Raw has managed to go down so that Vince's family and/or stooges can put the spotlight on themselves, etc.
Pretty much all the stuff Punk rebelled about before hasn't changed, except that Punk has better shirts and he's in the opening to Raw now.
edit: Oh, and now F4W is reporting that John Morrison is probably done with the WWE once his contract expires soon. Summer Punk would have had a field day with the WWE driving out a talented and popular wrestler reportedly because they were upset with the woman he happened to be dating.
The idea that there's nothing for Punk to rebel against is mind-blowing.
lol @ anyone expecting the status quo to be changed so drastically. Right, everything's supposedly back to normal. So what? Despite Punk's crusade (even speaking kayfabe wise here) I don't think he would've expected things to change considerably. Punk isn't an idiot, and at the end of the day he knows why the status quo's there for a reason. He wants change. And he's working on it. But he's not gonna turn water into wine and drop pipebombs eternally.
If you want him to fight THOSE things, you're cheering him on a losing battle and trying to mold ideas around it is possible but inherently pointless on the long-term because he's destined... to fail.
Case in point, the best idea thrown around so far is him bringing back old incarnations of title belts. Groovy. But don't worry, I noticed the "little things" you said he could do too, which isn't a bad shout.
But oh, suddenly him not being anything he used to be makes him a kiss-ass? It's one or the other, right? Punk the rebel or Punk the kiss-ass. Kay. He happens to have the same line of thinking as Triple H believe it or not, which actually fits most of his stance behind his character about making a change. Don't believe me? Review HHH's promo and tell me Punk wouldn't agree with most of what he said. It's like that Twitter post suddenly went over your heads. Punk may have wore HHH's blazer but that doesn't make him any much of a kiss-ass - that's not even withstanding the fact HHH granted him a title shot right after a PPV loss. Punk casually going on his crusade would either render him an ungrateful lunatic or his act would get old eventually. So yeah, I do mean it when I say, he has nothing to rebel against anymore.
There's another top face in the equation now so there has been a change and he's benefitted most from it. But for those who think I'm being optimistic on that aspect and want to squeeze in their childish potshots because they're trying to find their words to refute accurately, fair enough.
I think OSB, Fantabulous and Bookerman have the right idea and they're all speaking the truth. Anybody that thinks this "character" of CM Punk is the same one that cut those scathing promos and walked out on the company is in critical denial.And anybody who expected Punk's character to stay similar to its original state to begin with is delusional.
The thing is, he doesn't have to do worked shoots every week. He doesn't have to keep reciting the huge list of the WWE's problems to remain edgy and interesting. For example, I think he should have brought back the old winged eagle belt when he returned after MitB. He could have said that any belt good enough for Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, the two greatest wrestlers ever, is good enough for him. Then when him and Cena wrestled at SS (or NoC, if they wanted a good build), they could have the match determine which belt would be used, with Punk winning. That's a simple way for Punk to remain edgy and appeal to relapsed WWE fans without hurting the promotion at all and it'd get rid of the current horrid belt design.They could have even built on that, having Punk restore some prestige to the tag team and IC championships by bringing back the old belts. That'd also give a bit of a rub to Air Boom (and the tag team division) and Cody Rhodes.
If bringing back some old belts isn't feasible, and I'm not sure why not because I doubt there's many people with disposable income still itching to buy Cena's belt, there's other stuff that can be done. What about during that 12-man match, instead of Mason Ryan (because they don't want to bury him) The Great Khali comes out, Punk gets on the mic and tells him that while he is very tall, they need an actual wrestler, and calls out Zack Ryder. That certainly hurts Khali, he's reportedly on the way out anyway, but it also gives a rub to Ryder and furthers Punk doing things differently.
Or when one of the heels tries one of their generic heel tricks, Punk doesn't fall for it, instead kind of breaking the fourth wall and acting like it's ridiculous that anyone falls for that sort of stuff.
There's countless little things like that they could have Punk do, while occasionally letting him speak some uncomfortable truths, that would make his babyface-ness different and interesting. Instead, Punk has turned into a generic babyface.
There's countless things they could have Punk do... all coming from the average IWCer's personal wishlist. That's where I think it is wrong, and that many of you are expecting too much out of Punk's character for. I mean come on, he never touched on any of those things! There's a difference between wanting change and pandering to nostalgists by bringing back old titles to which he has no connection with whatsoever.
As for the 4th wall stuff, he does it already. Just to a lesser extent. And because he's actually smart, he's not gonna do it every single time because it's gonna get tiresome.
The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*
in The Dog Pound
Posted
Be it noted I agree with all of that. And like I said earlier, I can get why people would be disappointed. All I wanna add to that is what everyone wished/expected for often ends up becoming the most predictable stuff ever.
The problem is when the IWC starts jumping the gun so much that the accepted potential scenario becomes the most predictable option. It's almost like it's a race to figure out how the storyline may entail. You mentioned people not finding the return interesting or entertaining(which I respect). I just wonder what they would've found entertaining, if it would've been Jericho just interrupting or attacking Punk and declaring his territory - which everyone and their mother, including everyone on his twitter page that day expected to happen.
That's why I personally dropped out of that "race" years ago, because I don't find it fun anymore. It also decreases the chances of me going on a exasperated rant as soon as a swerve happens.
I remember when Jericho told the fans to calm the hell down when Christian lost the title in five days, and surely enough I was one of those angry fans. Turns out he was right, and Christian became more established than ever before.
I actually believe WWE is more prone to mess up when a big storyline is unleashed right in the open(Nash texting himself...)
The funniest thing is because of things like this, certain people actually think that Vince is flipping the middle finger to the Internet? Now I don't think he's specifically catering to us either, but take a second look at how things are running now as opposed to five years ago.