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edenborn

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Everything posted by edenborn

  1. I've not made the jump to TEW 2020 but this mod tempts me to do so. Thanks for all your hard work, Mammoth.
  2. I'd enjoy a feature like this. How useful the information is and how often we receive it could be influenced by the skill level of the development company's booker.
  3. Short suggestion for a backstage incident I've not seen in the TEW series. Apologies if it's there and I've simply missed it. Recently, I was reading this article where Bret Hart recounts Shawn Michaels being furious with The Rock for doing a dropkick off the top rope: "I remember Shawn Michaels coming into the dressing room and dressing down poor Dwayne," Hart recalled. "Shawn came in and just dressed him down and he chewed him out. And I believe, [HBK] told [The Rock] to never do a top rope dropkick ever again because that was his move. That's what he was mad about. And then, he slammed the door and he walked out. The Rock was [deflated] because in those days, Shawn had a lot of weight. He was a pretty important guy for the company, a veteran guy kind of dressing him down like that, he was apologizing and said he didn't know, and he thought it would be okay. "I remember the door closed after Shawn left and I said, 'that's bulls--t. That's total bulls--t.' I said, 'nobody owns the dropkick off the top. You can do that. Owen does it all the time! Why doesn't he cut a promo on Owen?' I said, 'they're just busting your chops and they're trying to work on you.'" I'd enjoy seeing this sort of incident reflected in TEW. Could be attribute related: certain negative personalities might arrogantly or selfishly use other wrestlers' signature moves (or catchphrases), sparking legitimate outrage. Conversely, bullies or gloomy / insecure personalities might take offense at what they see as an infringement when really they don't have legitimate cause.
  4. Thanks for the fast reply, Adam. I'd not realized they were done by time period -- that's wonderful. I believe I saw an anachronistic finisher or two while playing around with the Effganic mod. I'll investigate and see if I can recreate the results. Upon investigation, I see the feature is very much in the game and working as intended, rendering my suggestion moot. However, I do have questions about the finishers assigned to the early days of wrestling. First, as Effganic starts in 1920, it's jarring to see the Bionic Elbow listed as a finisher. I appreciate that the move itself -- a downward elbow strike -- isn't particularly complex and fits the time period. However, the word "bionic" (combining life and electronics) didn't exist until decades later. Didn't Dusty Rhodes take the name from "The Bionic Man?" That show debuted in 1973. Suggest renaming as "Downward Elbow Strike" or something similar. Second, while I didn't see anything as anachronistic as a Flip Piledriver, I'm a bit bumped by the various faceplants (Leaping Faceplant, Running Faceplant, Double Arm Faceplant) and potentially Face Crusher. I'm willing to believe I'm simply ignorant on the topic but did these moves even exist back in the 20's, 30's, 40's etc.? I'm looking through "Legends of Pro Wrestling: 150 Years of Headlocks, Body Slams and Piledrivers" (by Tim Hornbaker) as it has a range of information on famous wrestlers of yesteryear. For finishers, I'm seeing sleepers, spinning toe holds, giant swings, claw holds, Indian death locks, kneedrops, bear hugs, airplane spins, etc. but I don't see anyone known for a faceplant or face crusher.
  5. A minor, purely cosmetic suggestion for the next iteration of TEW. Not for TEW 2020 as there are more immediate avenues to pursue. Randomly generated wrestlers are sometimes assigned finishing moves you'd never see in that era. I'd like it if we could set flags on the various AI-generated finishers, so instead of receiving a Flip Piledriver finisher, a random 1930's wrestler might receive something more plausible like a Sleeper or an Airplane Spin. As I say, not the most urgently needed feature, but it'd be useful for TEW players who enjoy the historic mods of yesteryear, whether real world or otherwise. (I think it would be especially useful for Effganic players.)
  6. I think there's something here worth pursuing. Back in TEW 2016, I fell into a habit of hiring workers for two appearances. The thinking being if they debuted with a wonderful gimmick, I'd sign them to a longer contract, and otherwise I'd let them fall by the wayside with that second appearance. (If it was someone I really wanted and their gimmick tanked, I'd have to fight the temptation to resign them again and again for two appearance runs until they got the gimmick rating I wanted. Gamey but effective.)
  7. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50794" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That basically happened to the Rock of all people when he left WWE the first time for Hollywood.</div></blockquote>Yes! And weirdly enough, this phenomenon isn't exclusive to wrestling. For example, it's <a href="https://www.themarysue.com/steve-carell-could-have-stayed-on-the-office-wtf/" rel="external nofollow">why Steve Carell left <em>The Office</em></a>.
  8. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheChef" data-cite="TheChef" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50816" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sure, but that wasn't my point. The guy I replied to said that the company would be on the hook with someone on a long contract. I just pointed out that they were, in fact, not.</div></blockquote>Fair enough. I've not played around enough with TEW 2020 to see how it lets player escape long-term contracts. If it allows us to escape with minimal penalties, I'd argue that's a flaw in how the game functions. A booker who makes a habit of signing workers to 10 year contracts and then weaseling out of those contracts should find new workers less willing to sign for them. You could simulate that effect in a variety of ways.
  9. I'm likely not telling you anything you don't already know when I make this point: Professional wrestling is not about fairness. It's a business. It's a highly exploitative business. It may not be Motown but it's pretty damn bad. Is it *right* that we can lock a 25 year old unknown up-and-comer into a long-term $15K/month contract? It's not right in a moral sense, no. Is it plausible? Consider how many would-be wrestlers never make it big, how they get injured, wash out, etc. This offer promises outstanding job security -- you get to do what you love for years and make a comfortable living at it -- many would jump at the chance. They're hoping they'll still have a few good years left in them at 35, and will be able to renegotiate for millions. It's a risk. But you're taking a risk, too -- that wrestler could break their neck in their first match and you're still on the hook for them. If anything, I'd prefer to see the TEW series offer *more* ways to financially exploit workers instead of less. Dino Bravo breaks Bret Hart's ribs. Weeks later Bret's wrestling again because he needs the money -- he's paying for his own health insurance. Jesse Ventura tries to get WWF wrestlers to unionize. Vince McMahon stops that effort cold. It goes on and on. It's a very real part of the "sport."
  10. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50785" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>XAF has a much higher match percentage and pop weighting than GAN.<p> </p><p> It also has more of a focus on hardcore/brawl matches, and doesn't penalise eye candy matches.</p></div></blockquote>Thank you!
  11. I've only got the free trial and that's only patched up until 1.09, so I'm pretty sure I can't check these new products out myself. Curious to know how Gritty Adult Noir differs from Xtreme Adult Filth.
  12. By the same token, along with the editor there's the ability to disable many of the challenges via options: no repetitive booking penalty, etc. Speaking personally, I'd much prefer a game that's more difficult than what we currently have. However, with each added layer of challenge, I see no problem with allowing players the option of getting around it one way or another.
  13. You don't use encumbrance rules? Seriously, though, I'm more or less in agreement with this. As long as the AI is behaving realistically (to the extent that's possible), allowing players to "game the system" doesn't strike me as that much of a big deal. If someone wants to play cheaply and exploit the game, that's something of a self-inflicted wound. Like cheating in Monopoly -- you can do it, though it defeats the purpose of the game. On the other hand, I can appreciate how as a game designer, you're setting a certain challenge level, and may not want players taking advantage of unintended exploits.
  14. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ghost of Benji" data-cite="Ghost of Benji" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50489" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sadly, I have always been of the belief that a truly realistic wrestling booker AI will always be out of reach, even for the greatest programmer in the world, whoever that might be. Wrestling is such a unique and wacky business, I'm not convinced it could ever be possible to truly suspend one's disbelief reading the AI's show reports. I've actually always felt that the AI's show reports should simply be hidden. Showing them will only ruin immersion. Just give us the show ratings, viewers, buyrates, etc. but leave the actual card to be up to our imaginations. Then the problem is solved and the AI never does anything unbelievable.</div></blockquote>Ghost of Benji, I take your point, and agree completely that storytelling in a wrestling ring is a tricky thing to capture in a game. Adam, to his credit, has managed to create a tantalizing simulacrum -- it's close enough to demonstrate the potential but too far away (currently) to be believed. <p> </p><p> While the perfect AI we might want may be forever out of reach, there are reasonable improvements that can be made, and for me that's the difference between purchasing or not.</p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LloydCross" data-cite="LloydCross" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50489" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>While these are all good points, I'd argue these four are pretty true to the last few years of WCW.<img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote>Touché, though I'd like TEW to aspire for better!
  15. <p>Apologies if you've heard me before.</p><p> </p><p> I've yet to purchase TEW 2020 because the AI does not yet put out shows that can be identified as logical, purposeful booking. The premise of this series, to me, hinges on the Monday Night Wars. The fantasy of being Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, Vince Russo, etc. trying to capture fans' imaginations better than your hated rivals.</p><p> </p><p> If the AI keeps breaking that illusion with nonsensical booking, I consider it <strong>broken</strong>. And in many respects, it is:</p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Wrestlers in feuds do not interfere in each other's matches</strong> (except in our imagination.) You will never see a heel cost a babyface a match, nor that babyface chasing the heel backstage post-match in hopes of revenge. </p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Stables do not function like stables</strong>. The AI will never book a Four Horsemen promo, a DX skit or an nWo beatdown. Stables will form and dissolve, swap members in and out etc. and none of it feels particularly meaningful. A wrestler can feud with the leader of a stable and never once face that leader's subordinates. Stablemates never interfere in each other's matches (except in our imagination.)</p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Turns do not seem purposeful</strong>. They feel random and unimportant. The AI will never book the babyface champ's trusted ally suddenly attacking him to dramatically close the show. The AI will never book the dastardly heel offering the babyface a genuine handshake after a feud, causing the crowd to break out in cheers.</p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Wrestlers can be thrown into important gimmick matches without any build up whatsoever</strong>. A jobber can be thrown into a triple threat cage match for no better reason than a random throw of the dice.</p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Managers are gained and lost randomly and without purpose</strong>. <strong>Wrestlers debut randomly and without purpose</strong>. There is never a logical thought behind the debut, for example building this promising wrestler up through a series of vignettes, or dropping that promising wrestler into an immediate feud with an established star. </p><p> </p><p> - <strong>Shows are booked in a vacuum</strong>: the AI does not know the main event of its PPV show until that very night, meaning it can't intelligently book the wrestlers involved over the preceding weeks.</p><p> </p><p> - Etc.</p><p> </p><p> I appreciate that not all of these changes are readily implementable. Adam has explained the difficulty involved with getting the AI to "look ahead" beyond a single show. Similarly, I don't expect the AI to function as a perfect replacement for an actual reasonably intelligent human booker. And hey, credit where credit is due: TEW 2020's AI is, in some respects, an improvement over TEW 2016.</p><p> </p><p> Nevertheless, the current AI leaves much to be desired -- looking at the show reports, I'm unable to suspend my disbelief. That makes this current build of TEW 2020 an intriguing toy but not an actual game I feel is worth devoting time to, booking show after show after show.</p><p> </p><p> That's just me, though. Your mileage may vary.</p>
  16. The real-world issues you mention are perfect for inhibiting creative output. Many professional writers are having a hard time. Additionally, the TEW 2020 user interface -- while improving, happily -- does involve a lot of steps to book a show. It's entirely understandable that you would have writer's block. Don't beat yourself up about it. Don't think you're alone. My advice is to go one of these two directions: 1.) Care less, book quicker. Play purely for fun, don't agonize about your decisions. Do silly things that amuse you. Book matchups you'd like to see. Don't worry about "winning" or even perfectly cogent storytelling. Play around with the autobooker for the heck of it. ...or... 2.) Care more, book slower. Dial back your expectations for getting a show out quickly. Dive deeper into the "reality" you're trying to lose yourself in. If you're playing a fictional universe, spend some time daydreaming about finishers and theme music. Think about the real-world storylines you enjoyed the most, then distort them in ways you find interesting. Slow down the creative process so you can savor it more -- there's no rush to get shows out quickly. Others may well have additional suggestions. Find the ones that work best for you.
  17. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Xendarii" data-cite="Xendarii" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50483" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Great idea for everyone who always wanted to know how awful it feels like to be a WWE booker! Should also include being fired after a few months due to bad booking decisions even though all of them were done by the owner.</div></blockquote>Yes, the unfairness of it. True to life.<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Nickman" data-cite="The Nickman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50483" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As always your suggestions are brilliant, edenborn.<p> </p><p> I’d love all of these things.</p></div></blockquote>That's very kind of you. Cheers, Nickman.<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MrTroy03" data-cite="MrTroy03" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50483" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It would need to be personality based. I wouldn't want that all the time, but that would be motivation to find another booking job for sure!<p> </p><p> Naturally if you worked for Vince McMahon you would get exactly this all the time, and it could be fun for a year or two.</p><p> </p><p> I see it as being personality based and how "hands on" the owner wants to be. A completely hands off owner would give only general guidelines for the next year/two years etc. like no hiring anyone over 40 and keep the top star over etc.</p></div></blockquote>That all makes sense. You could even make how "hands on" the owner will be something that's negotiated when applying for the job.
  18. Owner Goals are decent for players who like the challenge. For my taste, they're too static. I would like the optional additional challenge of having to book shows for a mercurial owner who is regularly posing problems. "The Pain Alliance need a big win on tonight's show. Have them dominate another team." "You know what I haven't seen in a while? A handicap match. Book a 2-on-1 for tonight's show." "Bear Bekowski was rude to me backstage. You can have him on tonight's show but then I want him off all SWF TV for the next two months." "Something in my gut tells me the fans don't want Rocky Golden as champ anymore. Get the title off him by the end of the month." Etc.
  19. <p>This looks super fun and I'm appreciative of all the work you put into it! It feels like a fantastic start but as you say it's something of a work in progress. A few thoughts:</p><p> </p><p> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Physical Health</span>: While some of your big name wrestlers are showing appropriate wear and tear (Bret Hart, Steve Austin, etc.) you've got a whole bunch of wrestlers with 100 in every category despite wrestling for years. For example, Tazz has 100 in every category despite missing almost all of 1995 with a significant neck injury. Conversely, you've got Chris Benoit with a 60 in every category, which seems *way* too beaten up -- wouldn't this much damage make his WWF success impossible?</p><p> </p><p> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Attributes</span>: The attributes you have look excellent with the possible exception of personalities (see below). However, there seem to be a large number of missing attributes. For example, looking at Kane (Glenn Jacobs), it's strange not to see Plays Dominant Well. Nor Plays Mysterious / Occult Well. Likewise, you could easily make a case for Squash Master. (Speaking of Kane, he's also listed as having No Mask despite the character not unmasking until 2002.) Similarly, Dustin Rhodes has Plays Mysterious / Occult Well but shouldn't he also have Plays Offbeat / Unstable Well? And possibly Plays Comedy Well? Shouldn't Steven (William) Regal have Plays Swagger Well? Etc.</p><p> </p><p> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Personalities</span>: You've got a number of workers listed as Professional who arguably shouldn't be. Three quick examples: Bubba Ray Dudley has been called out by multiple wrestlers for taking liberties with them. You might check out what workers like Rene Dupree and Rico Constantino have said about him. Bob Holly has a rep for being a surly bully, working stiff and roughing up rookie wrestlers, particularly on the Tough Enough show. Tazz was known for being a brooding, miserable, intense SOB backstage, essentially "living his gimmick." I don't know that any of them should be Professional, which TEW 2020 defines as "a true pro and always acts as such." </p><p> </p><p> <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Stats</span>: Again, most of the stats look really sharp, and I like that you're not inflating everyone like so many mods do. But some numbers do look a little harsh to me, especially with Star Quality. For example, Tazz has a Star Quality of... 20? That's *really* low. It's hard to imagine Paul Heyman making the guy ECW World Heavyweight Champion with Star Quality that low. By contrast, Johnny Grunge and Rocco Rock have Star Quality in the 50s. Even David Flair has a 40. Likewise, Sid Vicious has a Star Quality of just 60. That's just barely above Tank Abbott's 55. I would have expected Sid to be somewhere in the 80s. High 70s at least. Maybe I'm just a mark for him, though!</p><p> </p><p> Again, I love what you're doing with this, so I hope nothing I've said is too harsh. Please keep up the great work with this mod.</p>
  20. Similar to how wrestlers will now sometimes offer to put other workers over, I'd like to see a system where underutilized workers will sometimes proactively propose changes they'd like to see. You wouldn't want to swamp the player with proposals but every now and again, it might be nice for a wrestler not in a storyline and not getting a lot of wins (or airtime) to have ideas. "How about turning me heel?" (Or face.) If done within a certain amount of time, the worker won't lose morale even if the turn flops. They'll gain additional morale (and perhaps additional momentum) if the turn succeeds. "How about changing my gimmick to a Swagger gimmick?" (Or another randomly chosen gimmick they can play.) Similarly, make the change and the worker won't lose morale if the gimmick flops, and will gain additional morale / momentum if it succeeds. "I've been talking with [another underutilized wrestler with the same disposition] -- how about making us a tag team?" Increased morale if you tag them together for a certain number of matches. Etc. You could expand it to workers requesting title shots, wanting to join existing stables, wanting to form new stables, wanting specific managers, wanting storylines with certain workers, and so on. Acceding to the request gives a mild bonus. Refusing it gives a mild penalty -- perhaps a small drop in morale.
  21. I'm a big fan of Rehabilitator / Mediator and Enabler / Bad Influence. How about Respectful for workers who are especially likely to do what's asked of them when interacting with workers who sport high Respect and Experience? And its counterpart, Rebellious, for workers who have problems with authority and are thus more likely to respond negatively in interactions with high Respect and Experience workers.
  22. In past TEW games, I certainly exploited the heck out of Menace and it always felt a little "gamey." So I appreciate the effort to reel it in here with TEW 2020. That said, it *does* feel like the stat got nerfed a bit more than it should. Perhaps there's a happy medium?
  23. Gotcha. Yeah, I'm with you then. Truly thinking like a human booker might be beyond the AI but hopefully the situation you describe will be remedied.
  24. Agree with a lot of this. I'm willing to believe the AI might call someone up and misuse them. The call up is a victim of backstage politics or "has to pay their dues" or what have you. But you would think the AI would make more out of new signings and think to debut them in ways that feel purposeful. Similarly, while it's nice to see the AI utilizing gimmick matches, it's completely unbelievable (and immersion breaking!) to see a jobber thrown into a cage match with no build up and no apparent purpose. Maybe we could set a flag on certain gimmick matches, differentiating the ones the AI might use casually with those that should be saved only for storyline feuds. That way, we could set a Hardcore match as one the AI might use without build up -- after all, it likely wouldn't be immersion breaking to see a jobber thrown into that, provided the company itself had a product that allowed for Hardcore matches. Attitude Era WWF/WWE would frequently feature Hardcore matches without build up. Likewise, a Submission match -- I'm willing to imagine the commentators talking about how the jobber has been bragging backstage about his submission skills and now it's time to "put up or shut up." Whereas a Cage match (or Last Man Standing, Iron Man, etc.) could be saved just for opponents in a feud. You could even set it so the gimmick match only takes place if the opponents have already met in a regular match since the feud has begun.
  25. That's not a bad article to pull from. A lot of it measures up with what I've read elsewhere. However, I do think a case can be made for reeling in some of these negative attributes. For example, Taz(z) is described as "a massive douche" with "big attitude problems." The evidence for that is that he "attended New York City's most famous wrestling convention a few years ago and spoke on how he hated the fans in it." For the sake of argument, let's say this is a 100% accurate encapsulation of the Tazz of today. (Well, technically, the Tazz of 2017 when the article was written.) Is that the same Tazz of 1996, when your mod is set? I don't know the guy, I'm not his friend -- I'm just someone who reads a fair number of "behind the scenes" wrestling news and interviews. My admittedly limited understanding is that the Tazz of today is bitter about how his WWF wrestling run didn't go the way he'd hoped. If he's a Bully today, the odds are it stems largely out of that. The 1996 Tazz is by most every account an intense, self-obsessed, egotistical, often miserable dude. Not a Bully, though -- certainly not like JBL, who has a documented history of picking on other workers. Instead of Bully, I'd make a case for Intense, Gloomy or Prickly. Similarly, the article's critique of Joey Styles finds fault with his behavior "since the death of ECW." But I've not seen criticism of the guy that goes back to 1996. (He could have been the worst person in the world back then for all I know -- I just haven't seen evidence for it.) On the other hand, Bubba Ray Dudley as a Bully sounds right on point, considering comments from René Dupree and Rico Constantino. If those accounts can be believed, then Bubba's Safety rating of 70 looks to be set too high.
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