Star Power Affecting Fights/Skill Level

[jeremybotter]

I was thinking about this last night and thought I'd get some opinions on how everyone feels about it. What happens when a fighter becomes a mainstream celebrity? Let's say you have a guy on your roster that becomes a star, a celebrity. He might have a bunch of outside commitments that start taking priority over training as much as he had in the past. On the reverse side, that star power could also keep his popularity level from falling as much as it normally would after a loss. Tito Ortiz is a perfect example of this idea; even though he lost to Chuck Liddell, his popularity level is nothing if not INCREASED from before the loss, because he gave an interview after the loss that was humble and conceded that though he'd brought his A-game, Chuck still beat him. Obviously someone would have to be a huge star in MMA before they really could become mainstream, so you'd have to have a guy who's been around a long time, won a lot of fights, carried championships, etc before they could do something like this. It would add another layer of complexity to the game, though, and you could have situations where a guy becomes a such a superstar that he makes normal business proceedings difficult to go through. It's kinda like creative control in pro wrestling, where a guy feels like his scheduled opponent is beneath him and either won't fight him or demands more money for the fight. You'd have some tough decisions to make as promoter, because you might have already advertised the match and backing out could hurt your overall popularity level, so you'd have to decide whether to pay the fighter what he's demanding or risk losing popularity by canceling the match.

[Jorge_JBR]

[QUOTE=jeremybotter;218620]I was thinking about this last night and thought I'd get some opinions on how everyone feels about it. What happens when a fighter becomes a mainstream celebrity? Let's say you have a guy on your roster that becomes a star, a celebrity. He might have a bunch of outside commitments that start taking priority over training as much as he had in the past. On the reverse side, that star power could also keep his popularity level from falling as much as it normally would after a loss. Tito Ortiz is a perfect example of this idea; even though he lost to Chuck Liddell, his popularity level is nothing if not INCREASED from before the loss, because he gave an interview after the loss that was humble and conceded that though he'd brought his A-game, Chuck still beat him. Obviously someone would have to be a huge star in MMA before they really could become mainstream, so you'd have to have a guy who's been around a long time, won a lot of fights, carried championships, etc before they could do something like this. It would add another layer of complexity to the game, though, and you could have situations where a guy becomes a such a superstar that he makes normal business proceedings difficult to go through. It's kinda like creative control in pro wrestling, where a guy feels like his scheduled opponent is beneath him and either won't fight him or demands more money for the fight. You'd have some tough decisions to make as promoter, because you might have already advertised the match and backing out could hurt your overall popularity level, so you'd have to decide whether to pay the fighter what he's demanding or risk losing popularity by canceling the match.[/QUOTE] I really like this idea. Tito is a perfect example of how when one is so over (I guess I'll use the wrestling term) and such a bad ass, if you lose, it won't affect how over you are. Not to mention, he stopped being an ass-h after that fight. Most likely because Chuck is the ****.

[toddthebod]

It would basially be the same option that was on TEW where once a wrestler reaches a certain level of overness it won't fall below that.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=Jorge_JBR;218645]I really like this idea. Tito is a perfect example of how when one is so over (I guess I'll use the wrestling term) and such a bad ass, if you lose, it won't affect how over you are. [B]Not to mention, he stopped being an ass-h after that fight.[/B] Most likely because Chuck is the ****.[/QUOTE] As in post-fight interview? If so then you should watch more Tito, he is normally very respectful after fights. If you just mean in general, most of it is show and he is a class act when the cameras are turned off. He does take everything as a business though and if he isn't getting the money he thinks he deserves then he won't participate.

[Jorge_JBR]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;218658]As in post-fight interview? If so then you should watch more Tito, he is normally very respectful after fights. If you just mean in general, most of it is show and he is a class act when the cameras are turned off. He does take everything as a business though and if he isn't getting the money he thinks he deserves then he won't participate.[/QUOTE] I most likely do need to see more Tito fights. I haven't seen that many. It's just whenever I see him, he is usually being a douche, and so I grew to dislike him. However, you have shown to know a lot about MMA, and I will believe you that he is really a class act.

[ACCBiggz]

I probably should mention he is a showman. He know what sells. When he loses like with Couture, Chuck x2, he'll congradulate them admit he wasn't the better man. When he wins, depends on the situation. Like with Lion's Den, that was a rivalry, but against Forrest he was respectful and such. Tito is just good about knowing how to make money and sell fights.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=toddthebod;218650]It would basially be the same option that was on TEW where once a wrestler reaches a certain level of overness it won't fall below that.[/QUOTE] Exactly what i wanted to say, i do not expect it to be different in WMMA. I think this is already in the game for sure as i do not see a reason why Adam would exclude such a good feature. Tyson is an obvious example in the boxing scene. He was far past his peak but still drawed attention, simply due to his past, reputation, and antics.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=Jorge_JBR;218689]I most likely do need to see more Tito fights. I haven't seen that many. It's just whenever I see him, he is usually being a douche, and so I grew to dislike him. However, you have shown to know a lot about MMA, and I will believe you that he is really a class act.[/QUOTE] I also have not seen too many Tito fights and all that i did see (3) he lost! But in each he was respectable, he knew how to hype, see the match and it was still a good fight to watch. After all appart from seeing who is best, most of all the crowd want to be entertained and he does that for sure.

[JMimic]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;218710]I also have not seen too many Tito fights and all that i did see (3) he lost! But in each he was respectable, he knew how to hype, see the match and it was still a good fight to watch. After all appart from seeing who is best, most of all the crowd want to be entertained and he does that for sure.[/QUOTE] Tito is great doing press for fights; he's great during the pre fight introductions with his jumping and the line he draws or whatever the hell it is and if he gets beat he'll admit he got beat like a man and if he wins well....Two words Gay Mezger LoL

[Chris2K]

But would there be a flip side? Say Tim Sylvia after UFC 68 claiming that an injury had caused his defeat rather than giving Couture his due, would that increase his star power as people would see him as a "heel", or lower it for being disrespectful?

[ACCBiggz]

Your point is valid, but it should be mentioned that Sylvia wasn't really looking for an excuse as he apologized right afterwards and said that he just got beat, but not really. He isn't the "heel" in the sense you want to order a PPV just to see him get beat. Tito is a good example to look at. He knew how to sell fights, 1/2 the people loved him, and the other half tuned in to watch him get beat.

[SirFozzie]

and in lesser terms, I watched Allan Berubie on a fight for a minor MMA fed on SUN TV in Florida. The interview before and after the fight makes me want to see him get his teeth kicked in... fortunately for me, he's on the Ultimate Fighter starting this week

[thedraem41]

[QUOTE=toddthebod;218650]It would basially be the same option that was on TEW where once a wrestler reaches a certain level of overness it won't fall below that.[/QUOTE] I kind of disagree with that, he's basically saying that unlike in TEW sometimes a loss won't hurt your popularity but increase it. Like Austin's loss to Hart actually increased his popularity and not hurt it. I think he's trying to say how a fighter handles a win or a loss make effect his popularity positively or negatively.

[BlizzardVeers]

Well, even being KO'd in 30 seconds and being gracious about it isn't going to save your popularity level. Though, Crocop is still popular, so maybe it's not how the fighter handle it in post interviews .. it's just how the fighter handles it in general. If they lose and proceed to go on to beat 3 more people and then beat the person that beat them, it shouldn't affect too dramatically. A lot of some fighters popularity after all is their W/L record and WHO they've beaten and who they've been beaten by. Renato Sobral is a good example of that. His recent loss wasn't actually as bad as some people apparently think it is. (Though I don't like how Sherdoggers quote losing to Liddell as a bad loss.) If you look at Sobral's record, though he has 7 losses, most of them are to some of the best in the world. Though, I don't guess Sobral is that popular, but he's still a respected fighter. The reason Liddell is over with the American public, is ... he's American, he's on a winning streak, he's a champion, and he finishes people by TKO or KO. Tito is over because of charisma, he was once a champion, he fights aggressively, and he sells the show. It works in America, I don't know if it would work anywhere else. I think that to truly reflect the world if you're going to have fights affect popularity in ways other then just winning and losing, is to include that each area likes a certain style of finishes in particular. In the US, someone that KO's people frequently for instance is going to get way more over. Or they just finish big, or quickly, or are known for having good fights. Then again, you could just do that everywhere in the world too, and though the UFC fans don't always seem to appreciate it, mostly when two guys are just laying there, they seem to be getting more into the submission side of MMA as well. While in somewhere like Japan, a decent Japanese fighter will be over much quicker then any foreigner, and the Japanese have more of a tolerance for someone taking their time and being patient about a submission. Submission finishes are just as impressive as KO ones to the Japanese.

[Adam Ryland]

It's intended that different areas and cultures will have their diversity represented.

[thedraem41]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;221230]It's intended that different areas and cultures will have their diversity represented.[/QUOTE] Great to hear!