Limited Info

[Capelli King]

One idea i have just thought of is to have limited stats information and mainly just records. In other words in stead of having full details of all a guys stats exposed (power, speed ect) you will have just information such as W\L records, past past 10 bouts, title histories, previous promotions, injury status, fatigue, weight, heights, style of fighting reputation and demands (contracts ect). It could be possible to give information about his entertainment or draw value. (stats which do not influence the fight results), and very importantly the styles he is trained in (Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling, Kick boxing), also where he trained, with who they trained. I think that unlike TEW, where knowing the stats were important because you wanted to put in guy which would provide "good chemistry" and have good match ratings. Here if you know in full detail that A is much better than B fighter then unless "luck" (discussed in another post) will play a big role (which it should'nt), then the out come will be almost 100% sure. In real life we do not know if A fighter is 100% better than B fighter in a certain stat. We do know however that A had 37 fights, won 30 of them, he won 20 by KO-or TKO ( it would be nice to know how exactly, submission, KO punch, Kicks the more the better). A good example would be the first Couture vs Liddell match. Most the world would have saud that Liddell had a much better standup than Couture, but if you watched that match, you would see that Couture more than successfully stood up to Liddell, possibly even dominated the standup. If however we knew Liddell has a 85 punching and 70 kicks (e.g) and Couture had a 65 Punching and 40 Kicks, then the computer will have Liddell always winning the standup. I see one problem however. In TEW(i know WMMA is a different game). It was very important putting weak guys against stronger ones so as to improve their stats.In fact that was the fastest way to do so. Plus similar stats were important for "chemistry". I beleve that in the new game the main improvement of stats should be training and general match experience (time in the ring) so putting a weak guy and getting KOed by a stronger one in 30 seconds should play little role in his improving stats. Also chemistry is "less" important. Similar styles "Kick boxing. Mu Thai ect" maybe. It is often more entertaining to watch people with different styles. Match rating mainly depends on the draw, hype, reputation, recent records and entertainment values. Of corse the outcome and competition is hugely important (which depends on the stats), but leaving a little to the suspense is always good. I had a look at a few other fighting simulators and one of the drawbacks was that you pretty much knew who would win (it was pretty much obvious in the stats). Records, history, form ect palyed little or no factor. Making the game boring after a few bouts. One problem is that Adam mentioned that previous bout history, W\L records ect will not be added in the original fighters database, which could make it difficult to judge the original fighters until they get some history behind them. Of corse we still have the title history which is satisfactory at least for the main fighters. Any views on this feature?

[Adam Ryland]

The problem with these (and the related scouting topics) is that as long as an in-game editor is provided - something that can hardly be taken out - the stats will be easily accessible anyway.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;223507]The problem with these (and the related scouting topics) is that as long as an in-game editor is provided - something that can hardly be taken out - the stats will be easily accessible anyway.[/QUOTE] I know, for people which want to "cheat", then fine, there is always a way. I know guys which play simulators and reload their game 10 times until they win the world title! Little you can do with that. I think the biggest callenges will be that the computer will make decisions based upon the "stats" which if we are playing the game correctly, we won't have access to. Giving the computer an advantage. One option is to have like the "Fog" option. Sports Interactive have this option in all their games. It is an option where you can have full stats information if you wish or hidden stats. All unknown fighters, rookies and so on you need to scout. Big names of corse you have full info on.

[y2trav]

i dont really like hidden stats that much, if you know the sport(if your running a company, i hope you do), then you know who can do what.

[teakle]

[QUOTE=y2trav;224265]i dont really like hidden stats that much, if you know the sport(if your running a company, i hope you do), then you know who can do what.[/QUOTE] But you don't know everything about everyone. You may know a lot about Person A the long reigning World Champion, but unless you have scouted/trained Person B, who has not even had his first fight, then how would you know anything other than the basics about him? If it's possible to implement, then I am all for hidden stats. If people choose to look at the detailed stats through the editor, then that's up to them. I suppose a perfect solution would be to allow people the option to chose in-game, but again implemenation may not be possible/practicable.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=teakle;224267]But you don't know everything about everyone. You may know a lot about Person A the long reigning World Champion, but unless you have scouted/trained Person B, who has not even had his first fight, then how would you know anything other than the basics about him? If it's possible to implement, then I am all for hidden stats. If people choose to look at the detailed stats through the editor, then that's up to them. I suppose a perfect solution would be to allow people the option to chose in-game, but again implemenation may not be possible/practicable.[/QUOTE] That is my exact point. It is pretty obvious that the people which are in the game for years their abilities are generally quite well known. Although even those which are in the promotion for a while you could never know for certain that fighter A is better than fighter B in standup. If that was the case people would not pay money to watch a match where they were pretty sure who would win. And new fighters we know virtually nothing about appart from their backround and training. To say the truth although i think hidden stats is more realistic, and i proposed this option in the first place, i usually remove this option in most simulations, because i get "bored" of the running around, scouting ect. In most simulators you usualy have an option to turn it on or off. What is the most important is the computer reaction (i mentioned above). In other words if you have the hidden stats on, then the computer should also need to send out scouts ect and see what we see.

[James Casey]

Something that might be quite nice would be a gradual unveiling of stats. I imagine that the game will include the destiny variable from TEW, and this could go to that as well. A worker starts with fixed stats, and the big workers come in and their abilities are well documented. The middling workers are quite well known, and so their abilities can be placed in a certain range (but some aspects not much used in their usual fighting styles reamin hidden). Only with several matches do you get a feel for their abilities. Someone might be at the low end of that range, and a bit of a pup. Alternatively, they might be at the high end, and much better than expected. Finally, you have the unknowns. The junior/regional/local champions, the pub brawlers, the bikers and bouncers. They come in with no reputation, no background, and your only way of discovering their (probably mediocre) skills is to put them out there and let them get massacred. This concept is probably too difficult to implement, but I just have an image of a blurry skill set that gradually becomes clearer as your fighter becomes better known :)

[rjhabeeb]

I really think this is a great idea.........you need to be a good scout if you want to know who is going to be good comparing numbers takes away a little bit of realism

[asdfx3]

It would certainly make it much more realistic to keep stats hidden (or at least more obscured than number/letter values). After all, in the real world all you really have is a fighters record and a very general feel for their strengths, weaknesses, and preferred fighting style.

[thedraem41]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;223510]I know, for people which want to "cheat", then fine, there is always a way. I know guys which play simulators and reload their game 10 times until they win the world title! Little you can do with that. I think the biggest callenges will be that the computer will make decisions based upon the "stats" which if we are playing the game correctly, we won't have access to. Giving the computer an advantage. One option is to have like the "Fog" option. Sports Interactive have this option in all their games. It is an option where you can have full stats information if you wish or hidden stats. All unknown fighters, rookies and so on you need to scout. Big names of corse you have full info on.[/QUOTE] I love the fog option that SI does. It does give the game a more realistic feel to the game and scouts are never 100% accurate on all of their projections. If people want to cheat, let them, but it would add to the game I believe.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=James Casey;224335]Something that might be quite nice would be a gradual unveiling of stats. I imagine that the game will include the destiny variable from TEW, and this could go to that as well. A worker starts with fixed stats, and the big workers come in and their abilities are well documented. The middling workers are quite well known, and so their abilities can be placed in a certain range (but some aspects not much used in their usual fighting styles reamin hidden). Only with several matches do you get a feel for their abilities. Someone might be at the low end of that range, and a bit of a pup. Alternatively, they might be at the high end, and much better than expected. Finally, you have the unknowns. The junior/regional/local champions, the pub brawlers, the bikers and bouncers. They come in with no reputation, no background, and your only way of discovering their (probably mediocre) skills is to put them out there and let them get massacred. This concept is probably too difficult to implement, but I just have an image of a blurry skill set that gradually becomes clearer as your fighter becomes better known :)[/QUOTE] Basically what you said, is what i had in mind. Your own guys would be 100% known after 1 or 2 matches, you would know virtually everything about them even in training. People shown week in and out on PPV ect would be the same, assuming they did not get knocked out in 10 seconds! So what would play the most role is not the amount of matches they had but the time they aired. People which finished known camps, will also have a rough level of detail. Especially if you have your scouts or contacts there. You could have some people which have had allot of fights but you have virtually no info about them, maybe because they have never aired, possibly because they are abroad or fights in some underground promotion. I like the option of having more info on people if one of your fighters fought against them. For example you sign a veteran which fought in B promotion for 10 years. He went up against 30 guys while there, and although he gave you his estimation there is no way you know the stats are true, especially if most the people he fought a long time ago. Also if you scouted a fighter and you had a pretty good idea of his skills, but was not being aired, or out of action or not being scouted, did not train in one of your camps ect, if his stats start to move far from his last scouted stats, then they will go hidden again. In other words we had a guy with 85 power, but he dropped to 65, 85 is an inacurate scouting stat, so it becomes hidden again. Do not get me wrong, we will know all the main fighters anyway virually 100% accurately even without scouting. So the big promotions which want to go for the big names, you will know who they are even if they fight in big promotions abroad (asuming they get TV time). Scouting is mainly needed for finding the new talent, the cheap and upcoming guys which lack maybe in reputation but have the skills. One other thing i would like is that "ultra popular" guys will have know stats even if not aired or scouted. I believe it is highly unlikely that a guy which has a 80+% popularity will be unknown. His reputation will be enough for us to know almost everything about him, the "rumors" give us a good understanding. So for people which own UFC and do not want to scout, then fine! You won't need to! You will know most information about the most well know and popular fighters anyway. If you own a smaller promotion, you may want to find out some details where you put your money or may go out seeking for the new fedor or chuck. For the cheaters, go to the editor or simply switch of the "hidden stats option"

[Capelli King]

2 additions to the scouting section that i would like to see is. a) I would like there to be a "scouted by" and a date. To know when and who was the last person to give data on a fighter. b) It does not necessarily have to be that a guy needs to be scouted by a scout. As mentioned above, you could sign a new fighter, which has info on "unscouted" fighters (he fought against them, trained with, or was at the same promotion), of corse the stats will be limited and less acurate since that is not his job.

[Capelli King]

I do not know, but having the hidden stats option could speed up the game as well, but let Adam answer that one

[praguepride]

Here's an idea. While the actual worker is broken down into dozens of stats as specified, what the user sees in game is just an overall rating that is a weighted average of a large collection of stats. example:They're graded on like, 4 in ring stats. Stamina (which is easy to measure) Toughness (combination of resiliance and toughness) Strike fighting (a weighted average of all the different strike fighting stats, like punching and kicking etc) Grapple/Ground fighting (again, another weighted average) These are weighted averages of a much larger selection of stats. This way you have a general idea that "Joe Blah is a strike fighter, Moe Schmoe is a grappler" but the actual in's and out's are hidden. Heck, even the styles could help "Joe Blah is a boxer with high "strike fighting" so he's probably really good at punches but if he was a kick boxer you don't know if he's a better puncher or kicker until you observe a couple matches of his. This would also aid in new worker generation because you can either a) go through the dozens of "real" stats and input stuff OR just input a value into the superset and based upon the superset and style it would generate the nitty gritty details of the worker. This will allow for a lot more "suprises" for those who don't cheat and look up the stats in the in-game editor. Like Joe Blah might only have a D+ in strike fighting, but what's hidden is that he has an A in kicks and an F in punches, so he might be a lot more effective in a strike fighting match then his grade would indicate.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=praguepride;225251]Here's an idea. While the actual worker is broken down into dozens of stats as specified, what the user sees in game is just an overall rating that is a weighted average of a large collection of stats. example:They're graded on like, 4 in ring stats. Stamina (which is easy to measure) Toughness (combination of resiliance and toughness) Strike fighting (a weighted average of all the different strike fighting stats, like punching and kicking etc) Grapple/Ground fighting (again, another weighted average) These are weighted averages of a much larger selection of stats. This way you have a general idea that "Joe Blah is a strike fighter, Moe Schmoe is a grappler" but the actual in's and out's are hidden. Heck, even the styles could help "Joe Blah is a boxer with high "strike fighting" so he's probably really good at punches but if he was a kick boxer you don't know if he's a better puncher or kicker until you observe a couple matches of his.[/QUOTE] I had something like this in mind. But more like UFC does. Before they start a match they give details such as "age, weight ect" but they also add some details such as "excellent striker, good takedown defence, improved grappling" So they give some of his main strong points but no full details. Scouting could be done similar. In other words the scout will give you a general idea of a fighter without giving you the actual stats such as 85% in punching 77% in kicking ect. You will only know full details when he is signed. Also the more you scout, the more info comes up, you could end up with his 5 main strong points and 5 weak points. In many games, where there is a draft (eg NBA Live, DDSPB ect), you get info on a guy but no exact details until signed. Which is realistic. Also scouts could also give details such as another promotion being interested in him, bad character, injury proneness and so on.

[thedraem41]

I don't even think you should have a complete overview of their stats when you sign them, then you would know who would probably win each match. You should get a few things told to you, and you should view the camps/dojo's they've trained at and maybe see whether they are currently training and what they're working on.