Atleast 31 Dead at Va tech

[davebiggs]

For those of you that have not heard, A gunmen opened fire on a dorm and classroom at Va tech. So far 31 dead and 20 more injured. This is the biggest Mass shooting in U.S history. All I can say in what ever you religous beliefs are pray for peace for the familys in this horrible day.

[davebiggs]

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a Virginia Tech dorm and then, two hours later, in a classroom across campus Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history, government officials told The Associated Press. The gunman was killed, bringing the death toll to 31

[Undertaker666]

It's about time you review your gun laws America. [CENTER]:( [/CENTER]

[davebiggs]

Yeah i'm starting to agree, I own my guns. But to be able to kill 31 people and there are 17 that may not make it. The death toll could hit 50. The president is about to speak. I have friends that go to Va Tech and radford (the sister school) Thank the good lord they are all ok.

[mjdgoldeneye]

The total deaths have been raised to 33. I don't think our gun laws have much to due with psychopaths attacking innocent people. Even with more restrictions, most people would be able to gain access to a gun as long as they don't have a history of violence or mental problems. (I can say this because I don't own guns and probably never will.)

[gonzo]

EDIT: sorry to anyone who may have seen that, just lost my cool. sorry 'taker

[Undertaker666]

[QUOTE=mjdgoldeneye;224990]I don't think our gun laws have much to due with psychopaths attacking innocent people. Even with more restrictions, most people would be able to gain access to a gun as long as they don't have a history of violence or mental problems. (I can say this because I don't own guns and probably never will.)[/QUOTE] You have to admit that America is a very 'gun happy' society though, for whatever reason that is I don't know. We have guns over here and have done for many years but we don't have these things happening, at least not to my knowledge. I'm not saying you can ever stop these sort events entirely but there are things that could be put in place to lessen the chance of them happening. Two things i'd put forward: 1. Anyone who applies for a gun licence has to undergo a psychological evaluation first, and has to every 3 or 6 months if they want to keep their licence. 2. Don't sell guns to people who can't store firearms safely and securely to stop your average joe gaining access to them - regular checks by the police (or whoever) to make sure this is enforced. [quote=gonzo]EDIT: sorry to anyone who may have seen that, just lost my cool. sorry 'taker[/quote] I'm assuming what was originally there was aimed at me then? I didn't see it anyway so errrrr.... apology accepted. :cool:

[PeterHilton]

Just awful. I can't even begin to imagine how terrible this must be for those families. Life is so stupid sometimes.:(

[AlaskanHero]

I don't want to turn this into a political thing, but not everyone who has a gun here in the US is holding it legally. Just like with everything in society, people will find a way to bypass laws and stuff to get what they want. *shrugs* Personally, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need one and not have it, but again that's me. Then again, I've lived in neighborhoods where it's not exactly safe to go out unarmed. But nonetheless, this is a terrible shame. I'm not even sure what else I can say about the tragedy itself other than this was terrible.

[DanB]

Absolute tragedy. This is the first I've heard of this, but my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims :(

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=The Franchise;225039]not everyone who has a gun here in the US is holding it legally. Just like with everything in society, people will find a way to bypass laws and stuff to get what they want.[/QUOTE] Yeah, whenever something like this happens, the first cry is for 'tougher gun laws' when gun laws have ZERO to do with it. I can walk 2 blocks from my house and find handguns being sold out of the trunk of a car. It's more profitable for a dealer in the south to have a shipment "fall off a truck" that finds its way to New York where it's sold for 10-20x its retail value. Tougher gun laws makes that even more profitable. Remember the assault weapons ban? Did nothing when I could get an AR-15 from any of a dozen places around NYC (Philly too!). This was a tragedy, no doubt. I'm still waiting to hear if any clients were involved (I do Spring Break trips and have had a couple fair sized groups from Virginia Tech) but the whole "ban guns!" argument is tired. Until people pay attention and see how the revenue stream works, gun laws aren't going to be worth the paper they're written on. Besides, there are few politicians willing to lock horns with the gun lobby right now.

[GIGGAS2]

I go to Radford and to say I'm affected by what happened on Monday is a definite understatement. Luckily my friends are OK. One girl from my graduating class from Blacksburg HS was injured, but she's not dead as of the last time I heard.

[The Ego]

Pathetic. Hes Legal on the Street, then on the campus he does that. RIP

[panix04]

its just so tragic to see such a loss of life. I don't really know why there seems to be so many publicized gun related incidents in the USA and i don't pretend to, but to my knowledge these sort of crimes are no were near as prevelant in european country's perhaps because of the strictness of the rules needed to own a firearm, or maybe its just the laws we have in place are policed better over here. Its hard to really put a finger on the problem. Unfortunatly i feel this tragedy will result in them trying to make schools more secure, which i feel isn't really tackling the problem, its more a case of trying to reduce the symptoms (metaphorically speaking) They really need to look at the source of the problem. I'm not going to pretend to know what that is, but perhaps taking a glance at european firearm legislation wouldn't be such a bad thing, sure some people will still get hold of guns, that happens in our country as well, but there's no need to make it easy for people is there? Anyway, im no expert when it comes to politics, i just hope the US government takes steps to help prevent anything like this happening again, instead of trying to stick a plaster (band aid) on a bullet wound.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=panix04;225110]I don't really know why there seems to be so many [B][I]publicized[/I][/B] gun related incidents in the USA[/QUOTE] Emphasis mine. See now? :) Besides, tougher gun laws only impact the person(s) who do things "by the book". Not going to keep a crazy from buying a piece with the serial numbers shaved off (like this guy had). Those kinds of deals occur outside of legal channels. It's also not going to stop folks who obtain their guns through legal means and just "flip out and go postal" (which we seem more susceptible to than our European brethren as well). I agree with you though panix. Something should be done to fix the underlying root problem. Sadly, I'm not too optimistic about it happening since it requires the kind of fundamental change that would not sit well with some Americans.

[panix04]

i deliberatly used the word publicised, due to the fact that gun crimes do happen in the UK, i was in the pub last night and one of the lads was telling me he was walking through Hele (near were i used to live, arguably Torquays answer to the ghetto!) when a couple of kids punched him in the nose and tried to steal his phone and when he fought back one of them had a gun! Judging by these kids reaction, it was probably a replica, but thats beside the point! These things are always going to be a problem, as long as guns are being made there are going to be psycho's who feel the need to use 'em. It strikes me that your point about, 'strict gun laws arn't going to stop the people who pick up ileagal weapons in the 1st place', is a good one (although i still think its a good idea) the only way to stop these people getting hold of firearms is to go after the people distributing the weapons, actually i think even then your just doing a patchwork job, really something needs to be done about the people making the weapons, wether guns are getting on to the streets through legitmate weapons company's with shady staff members or there are factorys building weapons ileagally i don't really know, but these are the people that need targeting and if yet another tragic loss of life's doesn't result in positive action from the politicians, then the buck really stops with them. People can lobby politicians, make petetions, we can even decide who is in charge. But the bottom line is, its the people with the real power that need to be acting, not to save face or to appear to be doing the right thing, but because it is the right thing to do. Sadly i think a lot of people would rather see lower taxes from a politican then see somebody that wants to improve the quality of life, i for one would happily give an extra 2% of my wage's away to the government if i knew that i could walk the streets at night and feel safe! I think i will stop there 'cos im beggining to sound like a hippy! Peace man!

[tristram]

Unbelievable - I just can't fathom... why? And then why cowardly turn the gun on yourself. I've always been brought up to take responsibility for your actions, feel your own consequences. Those people lost everything, and he had no punishment from other sources. Gun laws definitely need ratifying around the world, how can anyone get a machine gun that's not in official armed forces duties???? What aside from blowing people away can machine guns be used for? Time for politicians to quit talking and do the walking with tougher arms laws, and perhaps use this as the media catalyst to end such BS movements as the "Shooters Party" which is a political party believe it or not down here in Australia. When I first heard about them, I was livid, I could not believe it that they had enough support to be a registered political party. What good can THEY serve? None. They can only help Columbine and Port Arthur situations arising. Never owned a gun, never will, don't go shooting or hunting, not my right to destroy any other living being's life or habitat. Another argument for another day, but where does it all end? It's okay to obliterate a species of animals, but not each other? You shouldn't be able to do anything, except for ecosystem survival (basic food etc.) I've never understood game hunting, for the sheer thrill of it.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=panix04;225128]It strikes me that your point about, 'strict gun laws arn't going to stop the people who pick up ileagal weapons in the 1st place', is a good one (although i still think its a good idea) the only way to stop these people getting hold of firearms is to go after the people distributing the weapons, actually i think even then your just doing a patchwork job, really something needs to be done about the people making the weapons, wether guns are getting on to the streets through legitmate weapons company's with shady staff members or there are factorys building weapons ileagally i don't really know, but these are the people that need targeting and if yet another tragic loss of life's doesn't result in positive action from the politicians, then the buck really stops with them.[/QUOTE] Knowing how this particular hustle works (yeah, I've done my share of "evil deeds"), gun laws are useless if they're not universal. That means federal AND state. It is significantly easier to buy guns in Georgia and Virginia than it is in New York or Massachusetts. When I say "significantly", that might be a bit of an understatement. There is a pattern than law enforcement has known about for over two decades of guns finding their way from Georgia, Alabama, Virginia, and Florida onto the streets of Philadelphia, New York, Hartford, Springfield, and Newark. But they only make busts when operations get "too large". So two guys running 50 guns a month isn't a problem but once they start to expand, then it's time to move in. You also have "election year crackdowns" which further exacerbates the problem (that is, politicians getting "tough on crime" and putting pressure on law enforcement to make high profile busts when they're campaigning for re-election). [QUOTE=panix04;225128]People can lobby politicians, make petetions, we can even decide who is in charge.[/QUOTE] No they can't. The majority of eligible Americans don't even VOTE most of the time. Then they wonder why their interests aren't being served. :rolleyes: Political apathy. Laziness (there are many people in this country who could serve very well in so-called "political" positions but choose not to because they can't be the Emperor). My mother used to tell me that "a closed mouth don't get fed". Likewise, if you don't make your voice heard, don't complain about the result (in my view, at least). I may not agree with many of her stances but I have much respect for people like [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_McCarthy"]Carolyn McCarthy[/URL] who actually did something about her outrage and grief. Like I said, this problem is a lot deeper and more complex than just enacting laws with no hope of actually affecting the problem. Those kinds of laws have no teeth and are only passed for appearances sake. This problem goes to the root of something America doesn't want to face: the issue of poverty. Why would a person choose to sell guns or drugs that they know may lead to the destruction or hardship of innocents? Because there's far more money to be made doing so than getting a minimum wage job! The two guys running 50 guns I used in a previous example? That 50 guns can be $100,000 in profit (depending on the guns, 9mm pistols sell faster/better than any other kind. Gee, I wonder what kinda gun the Va Tech shooter used). Saddest part is, this isn't news to law enforcement. The problem's bigger than they can deal with.

[panix04]

[QUOTE]Like I said, this problem is a lot deeper and more complex than just enacting laws with no hope of actually affecting the problem. Those kinds of laws have no teeth and are only passed for appearances sake. This problem goes to the root of something America doesn't want to face: the issue of poverty. Why would a person choose to sell guns or drugs that they know may lead to the destruction or hardship of innocents? Because there's far more money to be made doing so than getting a minimum wage job! The two guys running 50 guns I used in a previous example? That 50 guns can be $100,000 in profit (depending on the guns, 9mm pistols sell faster/better than any other kind. Gee, I wonder what kinda gun the Va Tech shooter used). Saddest part is, this isn't news to law enforcement. The problem's bigger than they can deal with.[/QUOTE] You may have a point, but there is a big difference in my opinion between a guy who holds up the local off license because he has two kids to feed and he has been laid off by the local factory. And some punk, wannabe gangsta, who is selling guns to kids because he wants a new flatscreen and he is too lazy to work to get one. Having said that, I may be treading somewhat over my depth here, 'cos i will happily admit that my knowledge of the american education system is pretty limited. But public schools are free there arn't they? If you stay in school and get the qualifications you can become a doctor, or a teacher, or some other high paying job and if a person doesn't do that then its there own fault. I slacked off at school and i'm paying for it now. but i'm not turning to crime, im working 9 till 5 in a job i occasionally detest and paying to get myself through a degree so i can build a future for my wife and I. We are living in a one bedroom flat and neither of us earn significantly more than minumum wage, but we are getting by and trying to turn things around, we both come from poor familys, so there is no real help there, so we are busting a gut to try and make a good life for ourselve's (odd statement for someone posting during work hours :D) I get frustrated when people use poverty as an excuse for crime, to be honest, to a large extent its laziness! Thats not coming from a spoilt rich kid either, i think i had the same pair of shoes through my entire time at secondary school and my mum had to take out a loan just to by me a school uniform, so i have spent quite a bit of time being broke and i just don't think its really justification for crime. Yeah selling guns or drugs or other types of crime may pay more, but that shouldn't make it a viable option to anybody! Incidentally, that came across as really condescending, and i'm sure as hell not taking pops at you for any previos indiscretions, hell back in my younger days i did things i wasn't proud of, we all have our crosses to bare! I guess as i have gotten a little older i have just become far more moralistic and have a very strongly defined sense of what i think is wrong and right! But i don't mean any harm (as general rule i never mean any harm with anything i say!)

[Undertaker666]

I never said that tougher gun laws would fix the problem, I said that it would lessen the chance of these things happening. Following the story on our BBC news website it had a link to some shocking statistics of school shootings in America: [quote]April 2007: A gunman shoots dead at least 20 people at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia. October 2006: A 32-year-old gunman shoots dead at least five girls at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, before killing himself September 2006: Gunman in Colorado shoots and fatally wounds a teenage schoolgirl, then kills himself; two days later a teenager kills the headteacher of a school in Cazenovia, Wisconsin November 2005: Student in Tennessee shoots dead an assistant principal and wounds two other administrators March 2005: Minnesota schoolboy kills nine, then shoots himself May 2004: Four people injured in shooting at a school in Maryland April 2003: Teenager shoots dead head-teacher at a Pennsylvania school, then kills himself March 2001: Pupil opens fire at a school in California, killing two students February 2000: Six-year-old girl shot dead by classmate in Michigan November 1999: Thirteen-year-old girl shot dead by a classmate in New Mexico May 1999: Student injures six pupils in shoot-out in Georgia April 1999: Two teenagers shoot dead 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine School in Colorado June 1998: Two adults hurt in shooting by teenage student at high school in Virginia May 1998: Fifteen-year-old boy shoots himself in the head after taking a girl hostage May 1998: Fifteen-year-old shoots dead two students in school cafeteria in Oregon April 1998: Fourteen-year-old shoots dead a teacher and wounds two students in Pennsylvania March 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, kill four girls and a teacher in Arkansas December 1997: Fourteen-year-old boy kills three students in Kentucky October 1997: Sixteen-year-old boy stabs mother, then shoots dead two students at school in Mississippi, injuring several others[/quote] That's very sad indeed, the only time in the past 10 years where there hasn't been shootings is 2002. :(

[TCP1]

I can see the logic to the tougher gun laws won't stop Joe Psycho picking up a gun. That's fine. However... I have yet to see one logical arguement for the legality of guns. Sure, it might be a knee-jerk reaction to try and ban all guns. BUT, why do people want guns to be legal? What does it solve? and if someone misquotes the American constitution I will not be impressed!

[davebiggs]

Outlawing guns is not the anwser. But cracking down those who sell guns to those that should not have them, This guy had to high-capcity hand guns..... This guy knew how to shoot. 33 dead? with two guns....That means he was making one shot kills. I have a feeling this is going to get worse. I know some people were jumping from 4th story of the building. They just said it was a 23 yr old guy from korea.

[davebiggs]

Update: Seung hui cho was the shooter, english major....he used a 9mm and 22cal handguns were used....Two shooters confirmed.... the dorm shootings used the same gun as the class rooms..... the first shooter was arrested off campus after the first shooting,

[davebiggs]

I said there were two shooters but I may of said that too quick. The do have a second person in police custody. shooting took place in atleast four classrooms and a stairwell,

[Wallbanger]

Remi is spot on here. The folks on campus followed their rules -- the school's restrictions even applied to legal permit holders (Virginia is a Right-To-Carry state). As a result, no one was in a position to defend themselves. I generally don't have a problem with ensuring that permit holders are responsible, law-abiding citizens. Honestly, though, the only ones who will be impacted by stricter gun control laws are the law-abiding citizens.