I just finished reading "Death of WCW"

[AfRoMaN36]

And from what I read I can conclude that: *Hulk Hogan is the devil *Vince Russo is the biggest idiot on the face of the earth. *Dennis Rodman is a drunk *Management seemed to be run by chimpanzes *Tony Shivone gives Vince Russo a run for his money *nWo is the best and worst thing that ever happened *HOW DO YOU LOSE $60 MILLION DOLLARS IN AYEAR!?!?! *Chimpanzes must really be in charge... The book itself was awesome. Once I picked it up I couldnt put it down. I really learned alot from reading it, although I must say, it came off to me as very "smarky." I think they overblew a few things and didnt mark them up as just a "wrestling thing." Like why doesnt Sting just call up his friends during the week to explain his innocence instead of waiting till next weeks Nitro. And somethings they just plain skipped through. (Wolf Pac, Shockmaster etc.) But overall, it was a great read. Has anyone else read this? What do you think of it and how wCw was booked into an oblivion? I mean, you dont even need to read this book to know how wCw was poorly managed.

[Remianen]

First off, losing $60 million in a year can be done very easily. It can also be FAKED very easily. Charge-offs, like terminating contracts and/or multiple bonus clauses kicking in at the same time (making it impossible to spread those expenses across fiscal years) as well as the typical overspending (does the company really have to pay for 16 workers to have suites at the Four Seasons NY?) can do it. Also, during that time period, there were corporate structures that made divisions revenue flow up but their expenses stayed put (and that's how losses could be in essence, faked). I read the book when it first came out and it had a real insidery tone (your "smark" remark was on point, in my view) which definitely appeals to some people. But it seemed too personal, like someone wanting to get back at certain people and protect others. I would've rather have read a book by someone in the company but not particularly close to the performers. It's one reason why I wanted to read Kenneth Lay's memoirs, before he croaked.

[AfRoMaN36]

Yeah, some of the stuff was way too personal. "For those of you who know DDP, his wife is the red hot Nitro girl Kimberly, so for him to suddenly want to stalk Takers horse faced wife makes no sense to me." Some of that stuff was just pain uncalled for. You just dont insult a mans wife. I was expecting a serious read when I bought the book. I cant say I didnt like the books sarcastic tone, but it seemed to me like the writers stopped enjoying wrestling LONG ago. I guess you may be right with the losing 60 mill a year part. In fact, it says if they said if their entire roster was working for free, they would have still lost 40 million. Im blaming management for spending the same amounts of money they did when they were drawing. But it is alot more than that.

[PeterHilton]

Kenneth Lay worked at WCW????:eek: ;) I liked the book quite a bit. It definitely has its smarkiness. I think that has a lot to do with the writer; RD Reynolds made his name by bitching about all the irritating things in wrestling, so complaining about the small things is kinda his thing. Playing to his audience, if you will, since the target market would probably be a "smark." But its a great source for dates and times and hard numbers. Like the real reason Russo said ratings went up when he first started booking Nitro. I still hate the simplistic idea that Jamie Kellner "killed" WCW and its sort of a cop-out ending. But over-all a good book and a much better examination of the WCW and the history leading up to its closure than any of the "Monday Night Wars" stuff. If you are looking for another book to read in a similar vein, I HIGHLY recommend 'Turning the Tables' by John Lister. Much more clinical book about the history of ECW. Great info. Gives you a real sense of why fans loved the company so much without dissolving into a book of road stories.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;247481]Some of that stuff was just pain uncalled for. You just dont insult a mans wife. I was expecting a serious read when I bought the book. I cant say I didnt like the books sarcastic tone, but it seemed to me like the writers stopped enjoying wrestling LONG ago. [/QUOTE] Smart marks writing for smart marks. To be fair though, Taker's wife does look like a horse.

[mad5226]

I loved this book as well, but like you thought it was very onesided at times. One thing I could never figure out is if WCW was losing so much money why in the world would they continue to have the Road Wild PPV (Sorry forgot the PPV name) when they made 0 dollars for the gate. They did the same thing with Bash at the Beach a couple times too. They would have the show on an actual beach and thus not be allowed to charge a gate fee, just doesn't make sense for a company in a doward spiral.

[PeterHilton]

I believe Afroman addressd that [QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;247469]*Management seemed to be run by chimpanzes *Chimpanzes must really be in charge... [/QUOTE]

[AfRoMaN36]

Kellner was described as some punk suit that just didnt liek wrestling. He thought wrestling was like any other show in that once it went bad, that was it. They were right on the nose with that, but I seriously doubt wCw would have lasted any longer even without Kellner in charge. Hell, even if Turner were still the majority leader, he would eventually face the facts that the company was just bleeding too much money for its own good. The sets were degenerating into garbage. Production values were way down and they were renting out smaller places to book shows, but still they were losing wads of cash. It was inevitable. I would point a finger at Hollywood Hogan and the whole nWo thing. But to be honest, would wCw even have veen so big without them? And yo uare referring to "Hog Wild" PPV. I have no clue why they would continue to do it if they were making zero dollars at the gate. EB was a huge biker fan though, that might have been why though it was foolish. Maybe he was a chimpanze?

[MrCanada]

Turner wouldnt of let WCW die so easily. He may of reduced its capacity, but as alot of guys say, most feel Turner felt some sort of loyalty to WCW since it was really what helped launch TBS and such.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=MrCanada;247543]Turner wouldnt of let WCW die so easily. He may of reduced its capacity, but as alot of guys say, most feel Turner felt some sort of loyalty to WCW since it was really what helped launch TBS and such.[/QUOTE] It was his baby. Much like how Heyman had to sit their and watch ECW fall apart before his eyes. He would have protected it without a doubt. But to what extent?

[jagilki]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;247496] And yo uare referring to "Hog Wild" PPV. I have no clue why they would continue to do it if they were making zero dollars at the gate. EB was a huge biker fan though, that might have been why though it was foolish. Maybe he was a chimpanze?[/QUOTE] The first one was Hog Wild, after that it was renamed Road Wild, due to the Harley Owners Group being upset over the name. I actually loved those PPV's for one simple reason. Sturgis (where they took place) is a half hour drive, and they were about the ONLY pro wrestling events to take place in this area. Since then, WWE has visited Rapid City SD (about 70 miles away) and Casper Wy (About 80) once in almost the past 10 years.

[AfRoMaN36]

Thats right. I stand corrected. I knew they changed the name to Road Wild, but I thought it was after like... 3 shows.

[jagilki]

If I remember right, they only had 4 of them. I missed the first, because I was working that day, made it to the second, the third, got there too late to make it int he gate, and went to the last. I only remember the first being "Hog" Wild.

[AfRoMaN36]

The last show on that month was New Blood Rising. Did they have it in your area?

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;247496]Kellner was described as some punk suit that just didnt liek wrestling. He thought wrestling was like any other show in that once it went bad, that was it. They were right on the nose with that, but I seriously doubt wCw would have lasted any longer even without Kellner in charge. Hell, even if Turner were still the majority leader, he would eventually face the facts that the company was just bleeding too much money for its own good.[/QUOTE] Come on. Does anybody here have any idea who Ted Turner is and/or what he accomplished? Maybe his daddy handed him a billion or two so he's never had to work to turn a business around. Wait, that's not true. Look, over my life, I've seen Ted Turner and people like him (see: John Malone) turn "dogs" into cash cows. Lemme ask, when Turner bought the Atlanta Braves, what shape were they in? What shape are they in now (and/or were, prior to the Turner-Time Warner merger)? How about the Hawks? TBS? TNT? People said there was no way anyone would want a network based solely on cartoons. Yeah, that idea bombed. Who the hell has ever heard of Captain Planet? :rolleyes: [QUOTE=MrCanada;247543]Turner wouldnt of let WCW die so easily. He may of reduced its capacity, but as alot of guys say, most feel Turner felt some sort of loyalty to WCW since it was really what helped launch TBS and such.[/QUOTE] Exactly! Turner doesn't fail very often at ventures he handles personally. Plus, given the dislike he has for Vince, that would've spurred him to do whatever it took (short term profitability be damned) to come out on top. The problem is, at the time WCW could've used his personal touch, he was embroiled in Time Warner's internal debate surrounding the AOL merger talks. (I've heard that Ted was firmly against the merger because AOL hadn't proven itself to be a sustainable enterprise and their debt portfolio was staggering)

[AfRoMaN36]

Clearly it mustve been staggaring because they collapsed just years later. Many people within say things like "if you ever have a chance to do business with AOL.... dont." Maybe I was just going by what normal business men would do if their company is bleeding money like that. Turner is deffinately something else. But with that, he is also a great business man. If things kept going like they were going, he would have sold it to whomever would take it. (despite initially shooting down all offers) Its price would be much higher than the change he sold it to Vince for because he would still allow it to have tv shows. I want to agree with you and say he wouldve toughed it out until it made profit again. But while Ted is a genious, he isnt a god. At its pace, it would have died. Or atleast shriviled into something no one cared about no matter what he did. He didnt write the shows, he didnt book the matches, he didnt deal with the wrestlers egos. Thats what killed wCw into the unprofitable garbage it was in its last year. The people just stopped caring and he kept hiring the worse people for the jobs who would continue to throw money away. And their would have been no amount of money turner could throw at this fire to make it go out.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Remianen;247635]How about the Hawks? [/QUOTE] If one is giving examples of Turner's sucesses to prove a point, its probably best not to use The Atlanta Hawks.

[jagilki]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;247629]The last show on that month was New Blood Rising. Did they have it in your area?[/QUOTE] No. New Blood Rising is what replaced Hog/Road Wild. I have no idea where it took place.