Things to improve the game sales in the future

[Capelli King]

Well i have not seen the game yet so this is kind of out of line, however from what we know and from what we have seen we can get a good idea. 1) Make it more of a Fighter simulation, not fixed to MMA. Has been brought up before. However i do not see what the problem is to simply regulate the rules to match a Boxing or Kick Boxing (K-1 Style) promotion. Simply have add gloves, ban wrestling, grappling or ground game and they will be based on their kicking and boxing skills. Simply if this is allowed, it will attract a more wider audience. Boxing, MMA and Kickboxing fans. 2) Expand on the default database. As funny it may seem the current database has created huge uproar among several potential buyers. a) Because it is based at the beginning b) Because it is totally fictional to the extent that women are more popular and draw more fans in areas. c) Limited database with a high women ratio. Sure there will be mods, but a strong default database is vital. For example in TEW at least 1/3 if not more prefered the Cornellverse in comparisson to the mods as it played better and people eagerly awaited to see how the universe expanded. Maybe in the later versions we could get a modern mod. I know this was not the priority in this game (engine ect was) however future WMMA games (assuming there will be future ones) should have either an updated default (serious increase in members) or simply a modern world. There are several other things that can be done, but i would prefer to see how the game plays out first

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;317319]b) Because it is totally fictional to the extent that women are more popular and draw more fans in areas. [/QUOTE] I'd really love to know where you're coming up with this stuff - the most popular female fighters in Japan are a good 40% less popular than their male counterparts in the database.

[Undertaker666]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;317319]b) Because it is totally fictional to the extent that women are more popular and draw more fans in areas. [/QUOTE] Even if women were more popular than men in some areas, which isn't true anyway, it's the Cornellverse which is a fictional database. How anyone can complain about a fictional idea set inside a fictional database is beyond me.

[Capelli King]

Well maybe i was mistaken but i thought i read that in Japan certain women could draw more than most men. I will not argue that point though as i rather see the database when it is ready. Either way, it is pretty fair to say in real MMA the women ratio is nowhere near to that of the male. Not even 10-1, and from what i understood here it is more around 3-1 or in that range. Rather not comment though on this as i have not seen the database, purely based on what i have read

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=Undertaker666;317326]Even if women were more popular than men in some areas, which isn't true anyway, it's the Cornellverse which is a fictional database. How anyone can complain about a fictional idea set inside a fictional database is beyond me.[/QUOTE] So maybe we will make a database based on Women and Dwarfs and see how that will go down with MMA fans. Sure it is fictional but it is real MMA fan buying this game. Real MMA fans like seeing men fighting men. So unless you want to create a database which will scare away fans and rely on the modders in saving the fortunes of the game, then make a database which the fans are looking for

[Adam Ryland]

Why do you keep talking about the ratio in reality? We [U]know[/U] that the women-to-men ratio is higher in this database than in reality - it's a fictional database, it's not meant to reflect reality. You may as well argue that there's more jiu-jitsu fighters in real life than in the database - whether it's true or not doesn't matter either!

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;317328]Real MMA fans like seeing men fighting men.[/QUOTE] Is that because they're women, or because the current women's MMA scene is poor quality? If it's the latter, then why does that apply to the database, where women can be talented?

[Undertaker666]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;317328]So maybe we will make a database based on Women and Dwarfs and see how that will go down with MMA fans.[/quote] If there's a market for dwarves then i'm sure Adam will include them in the future. The fact remains that there aren't many people complaining about the womens scene in the default database, and some people who weren't sure about having women in the database have since changed their minds and welcome the idea. For proof just look at the buzz that the tournament for the free game created. People were discussing the matchups and trying to figure out who would do what in which fight, it didn't matter that it was women in the matchups. [QUOTE=Capelli King;317328]Sure it is fictional but it is real MMA fan buying this game. Real MMA fans like seeing men fighting men.[/quote] That's where i'd say you're wrong. Real MMA fans respect the sport and the skill that a fighters possesses. As a MMA fan myself, and someone who used to train in Jiu-Jitsu, it doesn't matter to me if it's women or men fighting. The reason that the majority of people say they "prefer" to see men fighting is nothing to do with preference at all, it's because: a) there is isn't enough exposure for female fighting, and b) most people haven't even seen female fighting so they just assume that women aren't as good.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Undertaker666;317336]If there's a market for dwarves then i'm sure Adam will include them in the future.[/QUOTE] If I wasn't so busy, I would [B]love[/B] to bust out a dwarf database :D Can you imagine the posts: [QUOTE]This database is dumb, everyone knows the ratio of dwarf to troll should be 80:20, I refuse to play it![/QUOTE]

[Derek B]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;317319]Well i have not seen the game yet so this is kind of out of line, however from what we know and from what we have seen we can get a good idea. 1) Make it more of a Fighter simulation, not fixed to MMA. Has been brought up before. However i do not see what the problem is to simply regulate the rules to match a Boxing or Kick Boxing (K-1 Style) promotion. Simply have add gloves, ban wrestling, grappling or ground game and they will be based on their kicking and boxing skills. Simply if this is allowed, it will attract a more wider audience. Boxing, MMA and Kickboxing fans.[/QUOTE] This is actually a potentially very good idea. I have to admit I don't know the general demographics of the MMA fanbase but I'm aware that MMA fans and boxing fans are entirely different, just as MMA fans and wrestling fans are. The only difficulty in creating such a game would be the comparable stats and the vast complexity of the coding required. Just looking at the current WMMA stats (and considering someone else's cage vs ring experience idea) you'd perhaps need to include experience with different fighting codes. MMA, Boxing, Muay Thai... I think it would be awesome to include all these things but at the same time, it would be incredibly difficult to pull off and would potentially suffer from not being focussed enough. Like... it wants to do boxing, it wants to do wrestling, it wants to do kickboxing... but it doesn't do any of them enough to draw fans towards it. If you understand me. Or in other terms... like being able to take your game of Theme Hospital and Theme Park and copy them into you game of Sim City. Cool idea in theory, but ultimately it doesn't make any sense. [quote]2) Expand on the default database. As funny it may seem the current database has created huge uproar among several potential buyers. a) Because it is based at the beginning b) Because it is totally fictional to the extent that women are more popular and draw more fans in areas. c) Limited database with a high women ratio. Sure there will be mods, but a strong default database is vital. For example in TEW at least 1/3 if not more prefered the Cornellverse in comparisson to the mods as it played better and people eagerly awaited to see how the universe expanded. Maybe in the later versions we could get a modern mod. I know this was not the priority in this game (engine ect was) however future WMMA games (assuming there will be future ones) should have either an updated default (serious increase in members) or simply a modern world. There are several other things that can be done, but i would prefer to see how the game plays out first[/QUOTE] As discussed previously, the database itself is at the mercy of the mod makers. Given that the game will be released with a complete database (thanks to the graphics creators hard work) the numbers of fighters and staff in the game are going to be fairly strong. The logic behind having a database set so early in the MMA universe was based on the understanding that the database would be constructed like this. Rather than say "we need 1000 fighters by Date X" it's been a more organic process. While it may not be my place to say, I believe any future WMMA games would have updated to a more modern era as people get into the game more and create more graphics for the game. Before the game is established there is a limited amount of graphical input because it's not had time to get a fanbase (or to get over in TEW terms). As the game gets more popular (by being released) then there will be more people making things for it and thus the database itself will snowball for future updates. It's not every game (or developer) that has such a lot of input from it's (his) fans. But also realise this... Adam is one man. He's coding the game on his own and there are a number of trusted people helping him out and giving their own time. While speculation will always come up with a lot of wild theories (most of them are wrong) that will turn people away, people should listen to those who are on the inside. Namely, people like Adam, Undertaker666 and myself... we can try to correct your statements and answer your questions as best we can. But if you remain inaccurate and keep posting the same questions/points, we will get frustrated. Going around in circles doesn't help anyone. So Capelli, since you appear to be in the know. Direct the people asking the questions to this forum, since this is the only place they can get answers directly from people who are creating, playing and testing the game already. Second hand information and second hand questions don't help anyone as they always go through a stage of processing that can create inaccuracies.

[xvnukervx]

you know, being an MMA fan I enjoy (to a degree) watching the female fighters. And yes, woman fighters in japan (in reality) are more popular then they are in the west. I dont see what the big deal is about woman being in this game, I personally love options and the ability to have female fighters is an OPTION. If you dont like that option, just don't use it. In no way SHOULD this game reflect reality, I just want a solid fighting simulator with an awesome system. If Im unhappy with the database, it comes with a complete editor so I can change things where I feel they need to be changed. I'll admit Im not the biggest fan of watching woman fight IN REAL LIFE, but in a simulator like this one its awesome to be able to make an awesome female fighter. And even have that female headline your entire card. Again its all about OPTIONS. If Adam was to implement a system so far away from reality (fighting in a spiked pit in the 6th level of hell) I would still love it, because its an OPTION. YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY THAT WAY. Female fighters are a fantastic addition to WMMA,NO other simulator currently utilizes female fighters. So hush about the whole female fighter thing. If you don't like the idea of woman beating the piss out of eachother, don't put them on your fight card. I would love for there to be a bareknuckle Vale Tudo type rule set...not sure if this is being considered. I think that would be great!

[VBigB]

[QUOTE=xvnukervx;317408]you know, being an MMA fan I enjoy (to a degree) watching the female fighters. And yes, woman fighters in japan (in reality) are more popular then they are in the west. I dont see what the big deal is about woman being in this game, I personally love options and the ability to have female fighters is an OPTION. If you dont like that option, just don't use it. In no way SHOULD this game reflect reality, I just want a solid fighting simulator with an awesome system. If Im unhappy with the database, it comes with a complete editor so I can change things where I feel they need to be changed. I'll admit Im not the biggest fan of watching woman fight IN REAL LIFE, but in a simulator like this one its awesome to be able to make an awesome female fighter. And even have that female headline your entire card. Again its all about OPTIONS. If Adam was to implement a system so far away from reality (fighting in a spiked pit in the 6th level of hell) I would still love it, because its an OPTION. YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY THAT WAY. Female fighters are a fantastic addition to WMMA,NO other simulator currently utilizes female fighters. So hush about the whole female fighter thing. If you don't like the idea of woman beating the piss out of eachother, don't put them on your fight card. I would love for there to be a bareknuckle Vale Tudo type rule set...not sure if this is being considered. I think that would be great![/QUOTE] That’s actually the most sense I’ve seen one of the MMA fans who’ve recently been posting here actually make (on this issue). :) Female renders were provided so that Adam could include them as an OPTION if he so chose. I’m all about options in most games I play. Anyway it doesn’t take a huge stretch of the imagination to assume that the men side of the database will grow at a faster rate in future patches and updates then the female side (and even up to release). There are a few reasons I say this with some confidence: 1) If you happen to travel through the render request thread in the TEW2007 mods section you will see that the majority of requests are for male wrestlers and I have no doubt the same trend will happen in an MMA thread if it springs up. 2) From what I’ve seen I the Greydogsoftware community the majority of people who do renders (here) have considerably more stuff for male characters and as such tend to do a lot more male renders. 3) I can say with complete confidence that the individual who did a lot of the female renders is now extremely busy with his real job working sometimes 3 – 4 weeks straight at 12 – 14 hours a day and really has no time to do renders. In fact said individual hasn’t rendered a new character since early October and the situation won’t improve until late December. I’ve seen what…3 topics now making mountains over molehills about this. A solid game engine and editor are the strengths of Adams games and as others have said there are plenty of real world mods already started if the default database doesn’t suit you.

[Tag01]

Well great. Now I don't want to buy this game until there are dwarf fighters...

[Tommy J.]

To all you guys writing essays in this topic: Let's at least wait with the complaining until the demo is out and we aqctually get to see the database.

[thedraem41]

I've read over this board, and I have no clue what to say. People making a big deal over women being in the game and I haven't seen ONE viable reason behind this argument. It's borderline sexism, and you guys can't understand that WMMA is NOT a copy of the real world. After the amazing tournament we have just seen with female fighters you think everyone would open your eyes and see how awesome improving this aspect of the game compared to real life is. It makes a better game. Not only is their no basis behind the argument for no female fighters, it's also insulting those that took the time to make renders for the game. I personally applaud anyone that can make the high quality renders we've seen. Now to talk about one of the topics I've seen. To make a Boxing and Kick Boxing game in correlation with a MMA game, would be difficult. You would have to put in extra coding in such, or Adam woul have to change it to a Fighting simulator type game, insert Boxing and Kick Boxing aspect in, etc. It wouldn't be as easy as changing what's permitted in a fight. Good idea? Yes. Easy to do? No. With any realism anyway.

[D16NJD16]

I like the base suggestion of allowing different styles of fighting. The rest not so much

[Oneida]

I like this guys first suggestion about the different fighting styles, i would love to hear if this idea is even plausable, if i wanna start a strickly boxing world or a strickly Maui tai world, i love boxing and i love MMA, in real world i feel the problem with boxing is corruption, not so much a problem in mma, though i could be wrong, or perhaps a boxing game with this kinda detail would be incredible, but anyways, bring on the game already, why must we wait till 12-8???

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Oneida;317667]I like this guys first suggestion about the different fighting styles, i would love to hear if this idea is even plausable, if i wanna start a strickly boxing world or a strickly Maui tai world, i love boxing and i love MMA, in real world i feel the problem with boxing is corruption, not so much a problem in mma, though i could be wrong, or perhaps a boxing game with this kinda detail would be incredible, but anyways, bring on the game already, why must we wait till 12-8???[/QUOTE] It's still being tested, bugs being fixed, etc... Everygame maker does this. They have a beta stage where they try and fix all the major bugs, before throwing it out to the public. A smart move, so you don't get a forum with nothing but "I found a bug" 100 times a day. Getting rid of obvious, major flaws, bugs and anything else they can come up with is going to make a much smoother, and even better "Open" beta phase when the game is released in trial version I believe on December 1st. You will see many different bugs that wasn't caught during the original beta testing come up, as well as possible new "Options" coded in... so called must have's after playing around with it for a couple of weeks. Then you will get updates that fix these bugs, and add in these options, till we have a great product (Not to say it won't be great "As Is") when the final update is made. 'course you probably knew all this, and I just bored you to death...:o

[Blackman]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;317343]If I wasn't so busy, I would [B]love[/B] to bust out a dwarf database :D Can you imagine the posts:[/QUOTE] That gives me an idea. A D&D mod, with creatures out of the monster manual. I'd like to see a dwarf KO an elf. ("That's for wearin' tights, ye pansy!") True is that it would have been a nice addition to have customisable match settings (like 'boxing only') like the feature we have in TEW, for the sake of variety, but I guess it's fine as it is now.

[bill2169]

From what I have read from some posters here they have admitted to not knowing that much about MMA but they continue to talk **** out of there ass. Capelli I could be wrong but you did not even know there was womans MMA until someone pointed it out to you so why are you talking about something you do not even know anything about????? As for increasing games sales I really think all that greydogsoftware and Adam need to do is advertise on popular MMA sites to generate some more interest. Question is hw many people actually no about this Game???? Everyone on these forums an some new comers. If they advertise and get the name out there then it could do very well. One other thing while I am thinking about it. For all the people on these forums who have admitted to not knowing much about MMA or not being a fan you do not even have the knowledge to speak on the subject. So keep your mouth shut

[thedraem41]

I think people have a right to talk about something, as at one point we all were learning something we didn't know a lot about. I just think it's sometimes better to think before we speak :) That would have stopped a lot of the useless bickering in a few threads without anyone even seeing the database itself yet.

[James Casey]

[QUOTE=bill2169;317741] As for increasing games sales I really think all that greydogsoftware and Adam need to do is advertise on popular MMA sites to generate some more interest. Question is hw many people actually no about this Game???? Everyone on these forums an some new comers. If they advertise and get the name out there then it could do very well.[/QUOTE] I intend to try and get the word out via Power Slam magazine here in the UK, which is a primarily wrestling-centric mag with additional features on MMA. Hopefully I can get my letter published. Anyone else care to try Fighting Spirit or other mags of the same ilk? Or all spam PS :-) They'll have to cave eventually... As for non-MMA fans speculating about the game... I'm not a very big fan of MMA, but have enjoyed what I've seen. I intend to put my two pennorth in, regardless of snooty hardcore fans telling me not to :p You never know where a good idea may come from, so let's not shout people down before they have the chance to get their point across.

[Jacko00]

How the hell can you give Adam advice on improving the game when you have not even seen or played the full game yet? As far as the women go, i dont like seeing women fight in MMA but i dont care how many women are in the game because i will just have male divisions, and i am making a real world database where i will be including women so it can be realistic. Like it or not women do compete in MMA and while i am not a fan i say good luck to them if thats what they want to do.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland;317343]If I wasn't so busy, I would [B]love[/B] to bust out a dwarf database :D Can you imagine the posts:[/QUOTE] ROFLMAO. That could be the fuuniest thing I ever read :D

[Dark Storm]

I don't think I've been this confused about how much is being made of a non-topic since I had the misfortune of overhearing a Paris Hilton update. CK: I'm a major MMA fan and amateur fighter myself. I (and most of the fans that I have talked to) enjoy female fights. And yes, if there were a dwarf division, we'd enjoy that as well, as long as they were technically sound. If you're a guy that needs big names and knockouts, that's fine, I'll never knock anyone for that. But if that's what it is then play the game that way. Delete the women yourself when the game comes out and have a blast. Stop trying to guilt, manipulate or debate Adam into making a personalized game just for you. That's why the editor is there, make a perfect world for you. Your first suggestion was very good (concerning varying fight rules). You may want to find a sounding board next time though. Reading this thread is 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Fortunately, I don't think I'll miss it all that much.;)