WANTED: Total In-Game Customization/Editing

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373475]Again, I never said it was easy, I said it was possible. Sometimes the hardest work pays off with the biggest reward.[/QUOTE] For that matter, how do you know that it's possible? Have you seen Adam's code? Perhaps you've made your own clone of the game? Maybe if Adam was writing a totally different engine for this game, then it might be possible. As it is, he isn't, so apparently it's not. And actually, have you seen how customizable games like Half-Life and Unreal Tournament are? But that's because the run on a different engine, on that allows easier customization. It also helps that tools are provided to help you with editing. But still, you can't do everything. In fact, you can already mess up the game enough without being given access to everything. It's the same with TEW. You're given tools to edit the game, but not enough that you can kill it. I think you should thank Adam for putting in the editor as it is, seeing as many MAINSTREAM SIMS (yes, they exist) like FIFA Manager and the like don't have that. Also, you're complaining that RAW gets dropped. Are you saying that this is impossible? That if WWE went totally downhill (like it probably did in the game to cause that) and stopped drawing ratings, USA wouldn't cancel RAW? Of course they would. Wonderful that you want to put it back and help WWE. But you can't, and now you know why you can't. Just put your idea to bed, until Adam decides to write a new engine for a TEW game.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373449]I'm assuming Adam has already included all the customization that we can do. Fool-proofing things would be useless, because it would be a lot more coding for him and would change absolutely nothing. So, after Adam has clearly stated that there are very good reasons why these things aren't in (not just in his opinion, but truly for gameplay reasons), I agree that this is absurd. "All the best test-based PC games" having full customization is an extremely subjective statement, and is also absurd. Unless they all come from one company or something. In that case, I apologize. But all games (sometimes even those from the same publisher) run on different engines, and the TEW engine just doesn't support what you want. Stop crying.[/QUOTE] What is absurd? Me wanting to make sure I'm going to get a good product for 35 dollars? Why can't I have a suggestion without it being shot down? Having a full in game editor may not improve your gaming experience, but it would drastically improve mine. I'm not crying about anything. If I am going to invest 35$ into this, I want to make sure that I'm going to get maximum value out of this. Same as if you bought stock in some company, you are going to want them to make the best effort to turn your investment into profits. In my case, instead of profits, I'm looking for quality entertainment over a period of time. Does that make sense?

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373475]For that matter, TEW isnt a mainstream game either. By best, I mean the ones that get the 9/10s and 5/5s on all the gaming websites, alot of times the sites praise them for how much you can customize. And to customize a game like COD4, you would have to break down graphics, on TEW you dont. And to think you were dogging me for comparing a text based game to another text based game[/quote] The statement you were referring to in the post I first quoted made a vague reference toward "games." Which I took to include all games. But, okay, let's just keep it to simulation games. Just because one game does something does not mean that another game should. [quote]I NEVER said it was easy, quote me where I said it.[/quote] No, you didn't say it was easy. But your insistence that TEW should have it, your suggestions on how to catch errors, and your repeat statements about how another game does it, gave me the impression that you thought it was easy. Or at least wouldn't be too difficult so as not to include it. The "This game has it, why don't you" argument seems to discount the amount of time and hard work that would be required to make such a change. [quote]That would make sense if you hadn't just got done using "mainstream" games like COD and Crysis to back up your points on why this game shouldn't allow modifications. Atleast my comparisons are in the Text based sim genre...[/quote] Again, I used mainstream games because the statement you quoted was a vague statement that an end user is somehow entitled to the ability to edit a game in any way, shape, or form. Not all mainstream games have tools to assist in modifying the game, thus my comparison. The end user isn't entitled to anything beyond being allowed to play the game. For small niche games like this, I don't see how that's any different. [quote]Again, I never said it was easy, I said it was possible. Sometimes the hardest work pays off with the biggest reward.[/QUOTE] Okay. So, let's say they do focus on adding this. That would mean a lot of work. A lot of time. So the game would either be delayed, or a large portion of the features would need to be cut. Just for this "feature," which is mainly like a cheat device, and would have no guarantee that it won't corrupt game saves if used, even if safety checks were in place.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373483]What is absurd? Me wanting to make sure I'm going to get a good product for 35 dollars? Why can't I have a suggestion without it being shot down? Having a full in game editor may not improve your gaming experience, but it would drastically improve mine. I'm not crying about anything. If I am going to invest 35$ into this, I want to make sure that I'm going to get maximum value out of this. Same as if you bought stock in some company, you are going to want them to make the best effort to turn your investment into profits. In my case, instead of profits, I'm looking for quality entertainment over a period of time. Does that make sense?[/QUOTE] No, no it doesn't make sense. Unless you bought a large share in a company, owning one piece of stock in it won't give you any clout in that company. And if you decide that if they don't listen to you, you don't want the share anymore, you can sell it back. They won't care. Someone else will just come and buy it. Same for this game. If you decide not to buy the game because Adam won't listen to you about this feature, I don't think he'll spend his time crying over it. Are you saying that the product isn't already good? That it's a bad game and that this feature would make it good? Are you serious? And as for why you can't make a suggestion without having it shot down, I guess that might be a fair question. Here's the simple answer: everyone has their own opinion. You're voicing yours, we're voicing ours. Same thing happened in the threads for Auto Booker and Retirement. I agree that when someone just says "I don't like this" with no reason or explanation, that's useless. But we, as well as Adam, have given plenty of reasons. You say you're not crying but you've pretty much abandoned trying to give any sensible reason for this feature. All you're doing is complaining that people don't agree with you. To me, that's crying.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=Lucied;373485] No, you didn't say it was easy. But your insistence that TEW should have it, your suggestions on how to catch errors, and your repeat statements about how another game does it, gave me the impression that you thought it was easy. Or at least wouldn't be too difficult so as not to include it. The "This game has it, why don't you" argument seems to discount the amount of time and hard work that would be required to make such a change. [/QUOTE] doesn't the game already do this from the very start of the game with the "checking database"? If it can be programmed to check an entire database for errors, why can't it do the same in the game when you edit something? I see arguing about the game having to check data against other data when you edit something live, but like I asked... Does this already do this before you even start the game? Whether it's easy or not, is it not along the same lines? So could or couldn't something like this be implemented?

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373482]For that matter, how do you know that it's possible? Have you seen Adam's code? Perhaps you've made your own clone of the game? Maybe if Adam was writing a totally different engine for this game, then it might be possible. As it is, he isn't, so apparently it's not.[/QUOTE] Anything is possible man. Space ships could land tomorrow and take us to Mars. Now for TEW, I'm sure some way, some how it could be done [QUOTE]And actually, have you seen how customizable games like Half-Life and Unreal Tournament are? But that's because the run on a different engine, on that allows easier customization. It also helps that tools are provided to help you with editing. But still, you can't do everything. In fact, you can already mess up the game enough without being given access to everything. It's the same with TEW. You're given tools to edit the game, but not enough that you can kill it. I think you should thank Adam for putting in the editor as it is, seeing as many MAINSTREAM SIMS (yes, they exist) like FIFA Manager and the like don't have that. [/QUOTE] Ive never played HL and UT, dont have a PC that can run them. As for FIFA Manager, I dont know anything about it or soccer for that matter. I would imagine thats where the cheat devices come in. Also, with respect to Adam, TEW, and GDS, Electronic Arts Sports is a gaming powerhouse. Their brand can sell easy without catering to their base. An example would be the Madden Football series, every year, there is complaints that its basically the same with few new features and an updated roster. Yet people buy it because of the power that EA Sports holds in the gaming world. For Grey Dog Software it would be harder to not include "above and beyond" features in their games, and to expect them to sale. [QUOTE]Also, you're complaining that RAW gets dropped. Are you saying that this is impossible? That if WWE went totally downhill (like it probably did in the game to cause that) and stopped drawing ratings, USA wouldn't cancel RAW? Of course they would. Wonderful that you want to put it back and help WWE. But you can't, and now you know why you can't. Just put your idea to bed, until Adam decides to write a new engine for a TEW game.[/QUOTE] Im not talking about playing years into the game, I'm talking about 1 month into a 2007 game, Raw is canceled. The ratings were fine, they were one of the top 3 shows every week for 4 weeks. That game is ruined. After the fact, I learn that you have to go through and edit the contracts, but for that, I would have to start over. So basically I had wasted hours of time playing a game that would lose all meaning and there was no way to amend the problem for that game.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;373488]doesn't the game already do this from the very start of the game with the "checking database"? If it can be programmed to check an entire database for errors, why can't it do the same in the game when you edit something? I see arguing about the game having to check data against other data when you edit something live, but like I asked... Does this already do this before you even start the game? Whether it's easy or not, is it not along the same lines? So could or couldn't something like this be implemented?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that it's a lot more complicated inside a save game. There's a lot more to check in there, and would you really want it to do the same check every time you want to delete a worker or edit a TV show? If you really feel that the save is absolutely ruined by something that happened due to the fact that it's, you know, a sim that, you know, tries to simulate the real world to the best of its ability... Why not just start a new game and hope it doesn't happen again. If it keeps happening, there's either something wrong with the data, or with what you're doing, or it's just meant to be that way.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373486]No, no it doesn't make sense. Unless you bought a large share in a company, owning one piece of stock in it won't give you any clout in that company. And if you decide that if they don't listen to you, you don't want the share anymore, you can sell it back. They won't care. Someone else will just come and buy it. Same for this game. If you decide not to buy the game because Adam won't listen to you about this feature, I don't think he'll spend his time crying over it.[/QUOTE] we'll so much for simplifying things with an analogy. [quote]Are you saying that the product isn't already good? That it's a bad game and that this feature would make it good? Are you serious?[/quote] God strike me dead if I ever said that [quote]And as for why you can't make a suggestion without having it shot down, I guess that might be a fair question. Here's the simple answer: everyone has their own opinion. You're voicing yours, we're voicing ours. Same thing happened in the threads for Auto Booker and Retirement. I agree that when someone just says "I don't like this" with no reason or explanation, that's useless. But we, as well as Adam, have given plenty of reasons.[/quote] I just dont understand the logic to it. [QUOTE]You say you're not crying but you've pretty much abandoned trying to give any sensible reason for this feature. All you're doing is complaining that people don't agree with you. To me, that's crying.[/QUOTE] I gave you reasons that that glitch ruined my game and wasted hours ofmy time, hours of my life, but could have been fixed with these features that I'm asking for. Responses I get fall along the lines of: [QUOTE]Just put your idea to bed, until Adam decides to write a new engine for a TEW game.[/QUOTE]

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373491] If you really feel that the save is absolutely ruined by something that happened due to the fact that it's, you know, a sim that, you know, tries to simulate the real world to the best of its ability... Why not just start a new game and hope it doesn't happen again. If it keeps happening, there's either something wrong with the data, or with what you're doing, or it's just meant to be that way.[/QUOTE] I spent Monday and Tuesday playing out a month, on Wednesday it messes up. Monday and Tuesday are gone, you know?

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373493]we'll so much for simplifying things with an analogy. [B]Are you saying that the product isn't already good? That it's a bad game and that this feature would make it good? Are you serious?[/B] God strike me dead if I ever said that[/quote] Get the lightning ready. [QUOTE]What is absurd? Me wanting to make sure I'm going to get a good product for 35 dollars?[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but I took that to mean that you believe that you are not getting a good game if your feature doesn't get in. Last time I check, not good = bad. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373493][B]And as for why you can't make a suggestion without having it shot down, I guess that might be a fair question. Here's the simple answer: everyone has their own opinion. You're voicing yours, we're voicing ours. Same thing happened in the threads for Auto Booker and Retirement. I agree that when someone just says "I don't like this" with no reason or explanation, that's useless. But we, as well as Adam, have given plenty of reasons.[/B] I just dont understand the logic to it. [/quote] The logic is that it can't realistically be done while still allowing for features that actively affect and improve gameplay and still meet the time deadlines. And even then, I don't think there could be much more customization than already is in, without it giving the "You can't do this message." almost every time you try to do something. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373493]I gave you reasons that that glitch ruined my game and wasted hours ofmy time, hours of my life, but could have been fixed with these features that I'm asking for. Responses I get fall along the lines of:[/QUOTE] Wait, what glitch? The fact that RAW was dropped? That's not a glitch. It just happens in the game, because the game is trying to simulate the real world to the best of its abilities. Whoever made the mod made the mistake. Tell them to fix it, instead of giving Adam grief over something he has very little control over as he already explained. Honestly, you just seem to be asking for more errors in the game than you (apparently) already have. And are you now demanding that GDS cater to you because it can't sell as many games as EA? Are you serious? This is absolutely ridiculous. Like I said before, if you don't buy the game, Adam's not gong to cry over it. On the other hand, if he delays the game for months to add in that feature, thereby possibly alienating more than just one person, I'm sure he would lose more than a little sleep. And your whole anything's possible thing... Just keep dreaming. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373497]I spent Monday and Tuesday playing out a month, on Wednesday it messes up. Monday and Tuesday are gone, you know?[/QUOTE] We've all had games ruined. Sure, it's frustrating. But to say it's a total waste of two days? Really? You learned something from that. I wouldn't call is a total waste.

[Harts4Life]

[quote=DanielW4444;373475]By best, I mean the ones that get the 9/10s and 5/5s on all the gaming websites[/quote] Oh, you mean like TEW 2004, TEW 2005 and TEW 2007? Yeah, thought so. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this one, but ... [quote=DanielW4444;373490]Im not talking about playing years into the game, I'm talking about 1 month into a 2007 game, Raw is canceled. The ratings were fine, they were one of the top 3 shows every week for 4 weeks. That game is ruined. After the fact, I learn that you have to go through and edit the contracts, but for that, I would have to start over. So basically I had wasted hours of time playing a game that would lose all meaning and there was no way to amend the problem for that game.[/quote] You're talking using data not supplied by the original makers of the program. It's data that is not and can not be supported by Grey Dog Software. If it doesn't work to your expectations, it's not Adam or GDS's fault or responsibility. You want your game to run like it should? Use the data supplied with the game. Plain and simple. Otherwise, understand that no version of TEW is going to "properly" simulate real life. And before people start complaining that I sound like I work for GDS, I don't, but I am simply reiterating what Adam has said in the past. In fact, he said it during the development of TEW 2005 [b]and[/b] TEW 2007. The fact that people haven't let it sink into their heads is absurd. Besides, the minute you start a game in TEW with "Real World" data, it becomes a fantasy game. Real world rules don't apply. [quote=DanielW4444;373475]Sometimes the hardest work pays off with the biggest reward.[/quote] [b]This[/b], right here, is the [b][i]best[/i][/b] reason [b]against[/b] your suggestion. 'Nuff said.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373501]Get the lightning ready. I'm sorry, but I took that to mean that you believe that you are not getting a good game if your feature doesn't get in. Last time I check, not good = bad.[/QUOTE] now you're just putting words in my mouth [QUOTE] The logic is that it can't realistically be done while still allowing for features that actively affect and improve gameplay and still meet the time deadlines. And even then, I don't think there could be much more customization than already is in, without it giving the "You can't do this message." almost every time you try to do something.[/QUOTE] Thats not what I meant. I cant understand the logic in people shooting down these ideas. Fans of the series shoot down this idea as well as others. It just comes off as "I dont want new features in the game" [QUOTE] Wait, what glitch? The fact that RAW was dropped? That's not a glitch. It just happens in the game, because the game is trying to simulate the real world to the best of its abilities. Whoever made the mod made the mistake. Tell them to fix it, instead of giving Adam grief over something he has very little control over as he already explained.[/QUOTE] The game could be fixed to accept more TV contracts, besides that, no its not Adam's fault, but it could be fixed with more in game editing capabilities. I wouldnt have had a second thought about it [QUOTE]Honestly, you just seem to be asking for more errors in the game than you (apparently) already have. And are you now demanding that GDS cater to you because it can't sell as many games as EA? Are you serious? This is absolutely ridiculous. Like I said before, if you don't buy the game, Adam's not gong to cry over it. On the other hand, if he delays the game for months to add in that feature, thereby possibly alienating more than just one person, I'm sure he would lose more than a little sleep.[/QUOTE] Again, you are putting words in my mouth that I just did not say. Are you even reading what I'm saying or are you skimming over it and making up my key points? You're just way off base on every point I make. [QUOTE]And your whole anything's possible thing... Just keep dreaming. We've all had games ruined. Sure, it's frustrating. But to say it's a total waste of two days? Really? You learned something from that. I wouldn't call is a total waste.[/QUOTE] It was a [B][I][U]TOTAL[/U][/I][/B] waste of time to play a game and then have it made invalid. Seriously, what is there to be learned from a computer game? However I have learned something here, and that isthat is has become obvious to me that you are just doing this to annoy me now. You mis quote me, you patronize not only me, but my ideas, you try to speak for me. You're just doing it to be a pain now

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]now you're just putting words in my mouth[/quote] Yes, because what I quoted wasn't something you really said, right? It was your evil twin. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]Thats not what I meant. I cant understand the logic in people shooting down these ideas. Fans of the series shoot down this idea as well as others. It just comes off as "I dont want new features in the game" [/quote] Look who's putting words in whose mouth. I'm not saying I don't want new features, I'm just saying that I don't want the feature you described, especially since it would probably delay the game for a long time. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]The game could be fixed to accept more TV contracts, besides that, no its not Adam's fault, but it could be fixed with more in game editing capabilities. I wouldnt have had a second thought about it[/quote] That's you. Not Adam. Like people have said many times before, if you're so unsatisfied, make your own game, seeing as YOU wouldn't have any second thoughts. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]Again, you are putting words in my mouth that I just did not say. Are you even reading what I'm saying or are you skimming over it and making up my key points? You're just way off base on every point I make. [/quote] You clearly said that EA doesn't have to cater to their fans because they can sell a lot of games. Then you said that GDS can't sell as many games without going "above and beyond". Once again, given a basic understanding of the English language, I surmised that you meant that GDS has to cater to fans to sell games. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]It was a [B][I][U]TOTAL[/U][/I][/B] waste of time to play a game and then have it made invalid. Seriously, what is there to be learned from a computer game? [/quote] You learned that the mod is broken. If you had taken a look at the conditions surrounding things, you probably would have realized what the problem was, causing you to learn something about the game. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373507]However I have learned something here, and that isthat is has become obvious to me that you are just doing this to annoy me now. You mis quote me, you patronize not only me, but my ideas, you try to speak for me. You're just doing it to be a pain now[/QUOTE] You don't get what you want from the maker of the game, so you resort to personal attacks against someone who has as much to do with the making of the game as you do. Nice.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Harts4Life;373503]Oh, you mean like TEW 2004, TEW 2005 and TEW 2007? Yeah, thought so.[/QUOTE] I never said they were bad games, In fact, I think they are great games. But just because you have the wealth, doesnt mean you cant have more [QUOTE] I know I'm gonna get flamed for this one, but ... You're talking using data not supplied by the original makers of the program. It's data that is not and can not be supported by Grey Dog Software. If it doesn't work to your expectations, it's not Adam or GDS's fault or responsibility. You want your game to run like it should? Use the data supplied with the game. Plain and simple. Otherwise, understand that no version of TEW is going to "properly" simulate real life. And before people start complaining that I sound like I work for GDS, I don't, but I am simply reiterating what Adam has said in the past. In fact, he said it during the development of TEW 2005 [b]and[/b] TEW 2007. The fact that people haven't let it sink into their heads is absurd.[/QUOTE] To some extent, I agree. Nothing is ever going to properly 100% simulate any aspect of real life. Even the baseball games I praise dont simulate it 100% accurately [QUOTE]Besides, the minute you start a game in TEW with "Real World" data, it becomes a fantasy game. Real world rules don't apply.[/QUOTE] Thats the worst excuse Ive ever heard. I'm sorry, but what am I supposed to say? If you throw the "real world rules" as you call them, out the window, its not a simulation game. [QUOTE][b]This[/b], right here, is the [b][i]best[/i][/b] reason [b]against[/b] your suggestion. 'Nuff said.[/QUOTE] Could you elaborate, I could pick any quote you have posted and say its the biggest argument against you. I can't read your mind to whatever, if there is any point you are trying to convey.

[DanielW4444]

Response will be in your PM box, I'm through arguing with you here.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373513]To some extent, I agree. Nothing is ever going to properly 100% simulate any aspect of real life. Even the baseball games I praise dont simulate it 100% accurately [/QUOTE] Given how much in-game editing they need to simulate things "accurately", I would guess that they don't simulate the real world very well at all. I could see you going through a month in the game, realizing that it didn't correspond to what happen in WWE in real life, and quitting because it didn't "properly 100% simulate" real life. You also don't seem to be able to grasp the subtler points of English, not in my posts, not in Harts', and not even in your own.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373490] Also, with respect to Adam, TEW, and GDS, Electronic Arts Sports is a gaming powerhouse. Their brand can sell easy without catering to their base. An example would be the Madden Football series, every year, there is complaints that its basically the same with few new features and an updated roster. Yet people buy it because of the power that EA Sports holds in the gaming world. For Grey Dog Software it would be harder to not include "above and beyond" features in their games, and to expect them to sale. [/QUOTE] that's why I don't buy a copy every year. I buy it every two years. And as of late, I've considered with the exception of a few games to give up gaming altogether. As a player I'm uninspired. Not just with the next gen consoles, but with the gaming as well. And the concept of me spending as much money fort a cheap disc that I used to spend on a cartridge doesn't appeal to me either. The fact that all these systems are all recycling games to cover for their lack of a lineup and laziness to create new games really says something to me. I'd rather play TEW in all honesty than any wrestling game that has come out since Day of Reckoning 2. And since I wasn't a fan of the SD series to begin with, having to "convert" annoyed me. Difference between mainstream companies and developers like Adam is they improve the franchise. The mainstream companies are lazy, unmotivated and have allowed their games to get progressively worse. Madden football games without Madden on commentary? wtf? On the wrestling side, I feel ripped off that they're the only "wrestling title" and so if I want to play a wrestling game, I have to buy theirs, only to feel ripped off and cheated because of the lack of roster, added moves and enhanced CAW; yet they opt to keep dumb, useless features that have proven to not only be glitchy; but most of the time the commentary doesn't even match the match itself. They leave it virtually untouched and "import" it over from the previous version even when most agree it's trash, yet it's in because a bunch of "fanboys" wanted it in. This is what separates me from coming back here every year to buy another installment of TEW, and me buying a copy of SD or Madden every two years, if that.

[Akki]

I refuse to let this get personal, so it can stay right here. [QUOTE=DanielW4444][QUOTE=Akki;373510]Yes, because what I quoted wasn't something you really said, right? It was your evil twin.[/QUOTE] Oh come on now [QUOTE]Look who's putting words in whose mouth. I'm not saying I don't want new features, I'm just saying that I don't want the feature you described, especially since it would probably delay the game for a long time. [/QUOTE] whatever you say sweetheart [QUOTE]That's you. Not Adam. Like people have said many times before, if you're so unsatisfied, make your own game, seeing as YOU wouldn't have any second thoughts.[/QUOTE] I dont have the time, nor the money, nor the resources. [QUOTE]You clearly said that EA doesn't have to cater to their fans because they can sell a lot of games. Then you said that GDS can't sell as many games without going "above and beyond". Once again, given a basic understanding of the English language, I surmised that you meant that GDS has to cater to fans to sell games.[/QUOTE] NO, I said EA can release the same old crap over and over and people will buy it for the recognition of the company. GDS doesnt have that luxery, they HAVE to dramatically improve. [QUOTE]You learned that the mod is broken. If you had taken a look at the conditions surrounding things, you probably would have realized what the problem was, causing you to learn something about the game.[/QUOTE] Yes learning the game is screwed up justifies my loss of time. THAT MAKES SENSE! [QUOTE]You don't get what you want from the maker of the game, so you resort to personal attacks against someone who has as much to do with the making of the game as you do. Nice.[/QUOTE] That is a lie. I am stating that you are doing this to annoy me. Thats not a personal attack. Read this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_attack[/url] If anything that fits you more than it does to me[/QUOTE]

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;373516] And since I wasn't a fan of the SD series to begin with, having to "convert" annoyed me. Difference between mainstream companies and developers like Adam is they improve the franchise. The mainstream companies are lazy, unmotivated and have allowed their games to get progressively worse. Madden football games without Madden on commentary? wtf? [/QUOTE] I pretty much agree with everything you said. I wanted to focus on this quote, because in essence, it is what I was saying earlier, but was accused of calling TEW a bad game...ect. [QUOTE=Akki]You also don't seem to be able to grasp the subtler points of English, not in my posts, not in Harts', and not even in your own. [/QUOTE] Maybe its because it is 4 in the morning and in the past 36 hours, Ive slept 3

[DanielW4444]

Isn't posting PRIVATE messages against the rules?

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373518]Maybe its because it is 4 in the morning and in the past 36 hours, Ive slept 3[/QUOTE] Sorry that lack of sleep has made you moody. Maybe you should try to get some sleep so you can argue your points coherently, and without repeating the same thing over again without actually listen to anything anyone says. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;373519]Isn't posting PRIVATE messages against the rules?[/QUOTE] Considering that it was to me, and that it didn't include anything personal, I don't think this is a bad thing. And I refuse to let a conversation about a feature turn into a private argument.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;373522]Sorry that lack of sleep has made you moody. Maybe you should try to get some sleep so you can argue your points coherently, and without repeating the same thing over again without actually listen to anything anyone says. Considering that it was to me, and that it didn't include anything personal, I don't think this is a bad thing. And I refuse to let a conversation about a feature turn into a private argument.[/QUOTE] I dont get moody. I am a good guy, until you piss me off, the easiest way to do that is to question my intelligence(which you have done) and just overall troll me(which you have done)

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;373523]I dont get moody. I am a good guy, until you piss me off, the easiest way to do that is to question my intelligence(which you have done) and just overall troll me(which you have done)[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but when you reduce any dissection of your statements to "putting words in your mouth" and don't seem to understand anything that isn't clearly spelled out for you, I really have no choice but to question your intelligence. I'm sorry if you're pissed, but it's just a game. If I have trolled you, which I don't believe I have (though I'm sure you're about to point to a Wikipedia article on the definition of Trolling), I've only done it because instead of replying to my arguments against your feature, you keep getting defensive and repeating yourself.

[Adam Ryland]

I'd question the intelligence of both of you, as apparently you don't have the capacity to read back through the past three pages and see how utterly childish you have both come off as. "You said this, and I can prove it...no, actually I said this, and what you said was wrong....no, actually what I said was this..." It's like watching two 12 year olds go at. Both of you need to get a grip. You'll each get a three day "calming down" ban from the forums if you continue this in any other threads. End of discussion.