[Hype] what if...

[takertitan]

I got this idea from the Bret Hart book, as he makes a brief comment about this... The date is May 1st, 1997. WWF has been reduced to the second largest wrestling promotion around. Bret Hart is never screwed at SS97, using a loop whole in his contract that allows him to book his last month with total creative control. For his final match, he challenges for Steve Austin's world title and the finish turns into double DQ. With no popularity boost from the event, WWF is now on a slippery slope. [B]WWF[/B] With WCW winning the ratings war, Vince decides is time to cut his losses and move back to a North East promotion. With its ratings slump, USA network decide it’s time to pull the plug on RAW, leaving WWF off television for the first time since Vince Jr. has owned the company. WWF has found a new home on a new home on the American One network. They release a lot of their dead weight (Yoko, Ahmed Johnson...) and decide to go a different route, less big men, more talented workers with charisma(jericho, rock, eddie...). The result is a happy fan base, but a roster with a large popularity gap between main event and mid card. Top talent: shawn, Undertaker, Owen, HHH, Austin, Mankind and Dustin Rhodes(the Goldust character never comes to pass, but rather a real American/cowboy gimmick). Underrated: Eddie, Dean, Jeff Jarret, D'Lo Regal... [B]WCW[/B] WCW is truly the world leader in sports right now, with the nWo angle being fully flush out at this point. Rather water down the stable with random talent, WCW does a true WCW vs nWo story. WCW Nitro runs Monday with the WCW talent, while nWo Thunder runs Thursday. They build each show as its own company, simulating roster steels, giving away results, trashing the other brand... but keep the rosters very separate incept on special shows. The result is that people now choose between nWo and WCW, not WWF/WCW. The realism makes a roster steal a big event and can be used whenever they feel the need to, generating massive ratings. Both shows book slightly differently. WCW books a faster, crisp style. nWo on the other hand book a slowly big man based product. Top Talent: WCW band: Hart, Benoit, Flair, Sting, Booker T... nWo: Savage, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Lex Luger, Bill Goldberg... [B]ECW[/B] ECW still lives and burns, but now is in a direct conflict with WWF over the New York area. ECW pushing a more risky hardcore entertainment, while WWF books a more family focuses program with good all round talent. Heyman has been able to land some decent talent from the big 2 and works out a deal with FOX to air a ECW House of Hardcore tv show every Friday. Heyman's idea right now is to book brawlers vs new school. The result is a divided fan base, some siding with a brawling hardcore style(Sandman, Dreamer, Raven...) while others choose a more high flying/risk taking hardcore style(RVD, Sabu, Jerry Lynn...). The fans throughout New York rave about how amazingly intense the crowd is at events, making for the loudest crowd in the biz today. main stars: Sabu, Sandman, RVD, Dreamer, Raven, Douglas, Tazz, Davey Boy Smith, New Age Outlaws and Kurt Angle(the crucifixion never happens)... So to sum it up, 97 mod, with a "what if" SS97 never happened. Vince never becomes his on screen character, they fall, WCW rises. prob do 4 promotions at reg/cult size(ecw, wwf and 2 others). comments?

[panix04]

cool backstory to the mod, sounds like it might be quite fun to see what you come up with. I think the WWE's change in direction in the early 90's would have had a dramatic effect on the whole of the wrestling industry.

[Rob4590]

It always makes it better if you actually get FACTS right though - how can the mod start in MAY 97 with Bret already in WCW, given that Survivor Series 97 didnt happen until NOV 97 (which was when Bret's contract ran out) :rolleyes:

[Akki]

Doesn't seem very believable. Somehow, I doubt NOT having Montreal happen would have hurt WWF much, if at all.

[Basmat01]

Whats with all the mod Hype threads for a game that wont be out for like 4-5 months? I wouldnt be surprised if none of these ever get released (besides tommytomlin mod lol) Nice Idea for a mod though

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=Akki;382252]Doesn't seem very believable. Somehow, I doubt NOT having Montreal happen would have hurt WWF much, if at all.[/QUOTE] No Montreal means no Mr. McMahon character, which means the biggest feud of the era never happens.

[panix04]

[QUOTE=foolinc;382354]No Montreal means no Mr. McMahon character, which means the biggest feud of the era never happens.[/QUOTE] I agree with this, Vince kinda stumbled onto the Mr McMahon gimmick by accident. And like it or not he was the perfect foil for the biggest wrestling star since Hulk Hogan (IE Steve Austin) Austin was at the forefront of the atitude era and paved the way for HHH, The Rock etc. You take away 'MR McMahon' and the downward slump that the WWE had been in might have continued rather then seeing a real boom period.

[takertitan]

i ment May 1998, sorry. The basic idea is that something changes for the screwjob. The screwjob basically gave Vince storylines for years. It also means that the start of the attitude area may be skipped over, due to its base starting point being Bret Hart leaving and Austin 3:16 speach. To do this mod, i plan on finding some data from this time period, and i am sure there is some. I also plan on adding/taking away a few things(workers, events, companies...) for gameplay. Since the mod is not supposed to be a real world clone, i will play a little. Also, i may push the start date a little farther ahead, not sure yet.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=takertitan;382476]The basic idea is that something changes for the screwjob. The screwjob basically gave Vince storylines for years. It also means that the start of the attitude area may be skipped over, due to its base starting point being Bret Hart leaving and Austin 3:16 speach.[/QUOTE] I still think that the loss of credibility that the screwjob gave WWF hurt them more than it helped them. After all, while the Attitude Era was sparked by it, RAW still didn't actually beat Nitro until the Foley title win. That put butts in seats, after all. And the Austin 3:16 happened way befor the screwjob, at KOTR 1996.

[Lucied]

That's a lot of extreme changes to occur in only six months. I don't see Vince and the WWF changing their main focus that quickly. I don't even see WWF falling that quickly. I think the WWF would still be National, but on the low end, of course. On the verge of dropping to Cult. Also, I don't think that the lack of a screwjob would have caused WCW to suddenly have a clue about how to book the nWo. Screwjob or no screwjob, they still would have ran the angle into the ground. I see no reason why that would change. I'm not trying to put you down or anything. But, it just doesn't seem that believable. Maybe if some more major events happened, and things were moved back to 1999.

[wilts]

What is with all this talk about the facts, and how you dont think things would have happened? Isn't the whole idea of why we play this game to recreate history the way that we see fit? why is there always so much negativity? If you dont like it, then just pass over this thread and find 1 you do like.... takertitan, i say good luck to you.

[takertitan]

or offer some ideas rather than complain... but w/e... its basically a flip, WCW becomes the winner, ECW lives, WWF is dieing. Thats the reasoning. Each company does something to reverse the way it would have normally gone.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=wilts;382554]What is with all this talk about the facts, and how you dont think things would have happened? Isn't the whole idea of why we play this game to recreate history the way that we see fit? why is there always so much negativity? If you dont like it, then just pass over this thread and find 1 you do like.... takertitan, i say good luck to you.[/QUOTE] If people don't want negative responses, they shouldn't post their ideas, especially in the 5th [HYPE] thread to go up in two days. I'm just giving some constructive criticism. I'm not saying "it's gonna suck", I'm just giving my reasons for why I don't think it's possible. If the first post said that he was taking liberties, it wouldn't be a problem. But he said it like these things were very likely to happen. I know there's the whole butterfly effect argument, but it's still a pretty big leap for me. I will offer some advice though: Go for it, and make it the best damn mod ever. If you do, no one will care how much sense it makes. But when it's just a hype threat for a game that's 5 months away, that's when people get skeptical.

[shamelessposer]

I'd personally suggest doing a mod off of your own data instead of the assumption someone else has done most of the work for you and maybe even picking an era in which you have at least a passing familiarity of which events occurred and in what order. But I'm wacky that way. I mean, really... the Goldust character "not happening" as a result of the events in this mod? He was around for a couple of years before the screwjob ever came to pass.

[takertitan]

thats for my own personal flavor. I have always hated the Goldust character but really enjoyed Dustin. I guess i am booking feds how i would have back in the day.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=wilts;382554]What is with all this talk about the facts, and how you dont think things would have happened? Isn't the whole idea of why we play this game to recreate history the way that we see fit? why is there always so much negativity? If you dont like it, then just pass over this thread and find 1 you do like.... takertitan, i say good luck to you.[/QUOTE] Is it too much to ask for some realism? I just don't see how its possible for such major changes to occur in only six months. Plus, the only thing that the Montreal Screwjob affected was the creation of Mr. McMahon, which was used to create a villain for Austin. WCW was not affected by it, neither was ECW. Removing the screwjob should have no impact on those companies. As for the WWF falling, I don't think it would be possible to fall that much in six months. Yes, WCW was beating them in the ratings, but even without Mr. McMahon, I don't see them falling that much that quickly. [QUOTE=takertitan;382611]or offer some ideas rather than complain... but w/e... its basically a flip, WCW becomes the winner, ECW lives, WWF is dieing. Thats the reasoning. Each company does something to reverse the way it would have normally gone.[/QUOTE] I did offer ideas. I offered the idea that the WWF be a low-National, on the verge of dropping to Cult. I offered the alternative that you push the start date back to 1999, in order to fit all your historical changes in. I gave advice on how to fix the glaring issue of trying to fit massive industry changes in a very small time frame. I mean, one, there would need to be a catalyst to enlighten WCW on how to book the nWo, and to get Hogan, Nash, and the others out of the ear of Bischoff. WWF would have to go a long time without any major storylines. As far as ECW goes, if they kept making money, and no longer needed financial assistance from Vince McMahon, then they could probably survive. Otherwise, a suffering WWF means financial trouble for ECW. Unless you want to ignore that Vince helped fund ECW after Heyman took over. I'm trying to not just point out potential problems as much as I'm trying to explain what needs to be tweaked in order to make this work.

[Moe Hunter]

Just a note - you could have Trish Stratus in ECW, like Kurt she was considering going there before winding up in WWF.

[takertitan]

alright... WWE: In 1997, Vince asks Bret if he would be willing to take a massive pay cut now, and in return his pay down the line(he signed a 20 year agreement prior to joining WCW, but Vince could not afford to keep him). Bret accepts. Vince soon realizes he can't keep up with Turners money, and sees his vast empire crumble. He decides that he should downgrade his current situation in hopes of 1 day mounting a come back. Vince asks if Bret would be willing to accept a early release, Bret agrees. Bret uses his 30 day creative control and leaves WWF on good terms. On his way out he puts over Austin, Taker and Owen. WWF have fallen, taking up the North East area of the US, with a small pocket of fans in Ontario. They soon release some of their lame talent, and decide to go with a faster family friendly entertainment product. This of corse makes Shawn very happy. ECW: With Vince no longer backing ECW with there money, they decide it would be best for both parties if they still kept a talent agreement that allowed workers for both companies appear on eachothers shows. Both companies would then shair the cost of a wrestler if they wished to. ECW decided to pick up some good free agents and some new faces to bolster its roster. They sign Angle and the New Age Outlaws(released do to presure from Shawn/HHH). They are also on the look out for more young quick talent... ECW gets its first TV show in House of Hardcore, airing on FOX every friday night at midnight. The show is all shot from the ECW arena, giving the show a gritty feel that FOX is not overly pleased about. It does however turn in good consistant ratings. WCW: WCW are now the leading provider of wrestler in the world. The brand split happens, and WCW and nWo are finally divided (This was mostly Nash/Hall's idea. This was how they wanted to take nWo down the line to start with). Both shows generate good ratings, but the nWo show tends to attract a slightly higher rating, mostly due to its star power in Hogan, Nash and Hall. Not sure how to work the crusier division here... Thinking both brands get a CW division. Bret Hart debuts quickly after leaving WWF and is totally mishandled. He is booked as a commedy character, and while Bret tries to fight it, he is locked in till mid 2000. Not sure where i will put in a womans title between the 3 companies... I was thinking ECW gets it, after vince basically blows it with Blaze. I will push back the start date a tad, prob Jan 2000.

[wilts]

[QUOTE=Lucied;382744]Is it too much to ask for some realism? [/QUOTE] From a game where the whole idea is for it to be your own reality? So how would the C-Verse fit into this 'realism' that you are asking for?

[Moe Hunter]

[QUOTE=takertitan;382790]WWF...decide to go with a faster family friendly entertainment product. This of corse makes Shawn very happy.[/QUOTE] Just a point - Shawn was right in the middle of his "bad" days at this time, he didn't reform until he was out of action for those four years. But if you want to go with an early reformation, that's all good. [QUOTE]Bret Hart debuts quickly after leaving WWF and is totally mishandled. He is booked as a commedy character, and while Bret tries to fight it, he is locked in till mid 2000.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I think Bret was at his best as a Comedy character. Find me one person who didn't laugh at the "Who are you to doubt El Dandy" promo. Nothing against this area of the mod, I just love that side of Bret.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=wilts;382828]From a game where the whole idea is for it to be your own reality? So how would the C-Verse fit into this 'realism' that you are asking for?[/QUOTE] My point is that the time span is simply too short to allow all this change. It's meant to be a "What if" play on a historical mod. Which implies that it should be well rooted in reality. By that, I mean that it's not very believable that so much change can happen in six months. The C-Verse has plenty of realism, in that it's set up so that it is believable. It doesn't do anything that couldn't happen in real life.

[Lucied]

[QUOTE=takertitan;382790]alright...[/QUOTE] Okay, that sounds a lot better. Well thought out. You could probably get away with setting it in January 1999, unless you want other major changes to happen in that time period. Really make things different for the start. WWF is at Cult, because they were too slow to change their product (if at all). Though, I would think that Vince would realize that the "family friendly" thing isn't working. But, then again, it was Vince taking a chance on Russo that really started the product change. I think Russo was in place before the Screwjob. But, given that the hottest angle they had was Austin/McMahon, and without the Mr. McMahon character, maybe the product kept falling and Russo was fired. Without the reputation of the Attitude era, Russo wasn't hired as a booker by anyone. That would help explain why the WWF is stuck with Vince's idea of wrestling from the 80s and early-90s. ECW could be National, and a real alternative to WCW for both fans and wrestlers. While WCW is Global, riding the success of their brand split. You could keep it so the "WWF Style" wrestlers are on the nWo side, while the cruiserweights and the other great wrestlers are on the WCW side. You have a lot of time to work with now, with the January 2000 start date. Maybe WWF finally gets a clue sometime in 1999? Maybe ECW is starting to take a bite out of WCW's market?

[masterded]

[QUOTE=panix04;382372]I agree with this, Vince kinda stumbled onto the Mr McMahon gimmick by accident. And like it or not he was the perfect foil for the biggest wrestling star since Hulk Hogan (IE Steve Austin) Austin was at the forefront of the atitude era and paved the way for HHH, The Rock etc. You take away 'MR McMahon' and the downward slump that the WWE had been in might have continued rather then seeing a real boom period.[/QUOTE] Come one panix the whole Mr. McMahon character existed long before the Montreal screw job, just not in the WWF. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGbVMMbi6nE[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3Fw7loEEfk&watch_response[/url] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI_1cW-1xZc&watch_response[/url] Though that has little to do with this.

[LoganRodzen]

In my eyes - the Montreal Screwjob is what created Vince McMahon. Without this screwjob - they would have to look elsewhere to create McMahon. If it wasn't for the Montreal Screwjob - I'm not sure what would've made Austin so big. What made Austin (Attitude Era) was his rebellion against the owner who fans hated. Why did the fans hate him? Because of the Bret Hart screwjob. Could WWE have made fans hate McMahon some other way? Sure. But I don't think it would have came across as good as it did. The screwjob is a HUGE part of WWE's success in those years. The screwjob helped Austin without him ever even being linked to it.

[T-Jay]

As far as the WCW roster goes... Goldberg should not be a part of the nWo as he was totally against it from the get-go. Half the time he was demolishing their faction anyway.