NWA, AWA, and ROH

[Steeldogfan]

I am an avid wrestling fan, but sad to say, the best wrestling is not on TV right now. The Superstation web site ( [url]http://www.thesuperstation.tv/[/url] ) has the following NWA shows, NWA Anarchy Wrestling, Southern All Star Wrestling, and NWA World Wide Wrestling. I have yet to find any ROH shows on the web, and the AWA is in the same boat. I would like to see all three, NWA, AWA, and ROH land on some cable network, or even be picked up by local TV stations. This would be a great time to come out with an all wrestling cable channel, much like the NFL Network, or the NHL Net. have a home for all of the wrestling shows with the exception of WWE or TNA, which could still be reported on in a news show or a weekly report. Throw in some of the Japanese and Mexican shows, and that would be my cable home.

[djthefunkchris]

I've watched some of this stuff, and I feel like I'm back in the 80's with it sometimes. It reminds me of the 70's and early 80's wrestling shows (of which, the "Superstition" was a part of back then). Here is my thing though. I wouldn't call inferior, superior (tongue and cheek). Some of these guys are going to go on and become the "future", some of them are going to be doing this forever in the same way they are now. It's a great alternative, and you can get a "real" feel for the old school type shows they used to put out 20+ years ago. I like them myself, so don't get me wrong. By inferior, I mean the production, not the wrestling itself. Your going to see great performance's in ring with this stuff. To me though, it's like going backward in time... not the opposite. If your looking for more action, less story lines and angle's, it's definitely a great alternative. I prefer to be entertained, but my wife would probably like this allot better (if I ever showed it to her). She's always saying, "Just shut up, and do it!". "Quit talking about it, and do something about it!", things like this. She can't stand it when HBK, Cena, Orton, Big Show, etc... Start talking, because she says they go on, and on, and on.. LOL. So I can see where people would really prefer this. I like it because it reminds me of old Georgia Championship wrestling etc.

[Steeldogfan]

I think that Dusty Rhodes said it best when he showed up on TNA a couple of years ago when he said that on Saturday nights on the arena's marquee, it read, "Live, 8pm, Pro Wrestling!". It didn't say, "Live, 8pm, a midget getting happy in a trashcan (I rephrased that)". Sometimes, you have to take a step back and see what worked, and why they don't do it now. Go to The Sun ( [url]http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/[/url] ), click wrestling, and there is an interview with Paul Heyman. He said that the formula he used was so simple that most people miss it, you have to have winners, and you have to have losers. Sometimes, taking a step back in time is the best way to move forward.

[Self]

Normally I'd side with DJ in a kinda-pro-WWE camp, so I will. WWE entertains me. I thought the last PPV was great, and I'm a fan of wacky comedy stuff. Midget jerking it in a garbage can? I'm cool with that. Bubba Ray piledriving a blow-up sex doll? Hilarious! People don't have the attention spans they used to. Old School won't work like it used to. I am getting a pre-attitude era vibe though. I'm starting to think WWE are losing their audience, and something is going to happen in the next few years. The old school style of booking could work, but I get the feeling MMA is going to be a bigger influence on the decision. And that's my sneaking suspicion of the day...

[Steeldogfan]

I have stated in other forums over the past 2-3 years that wrestling is going to have to come full circle. In that, I mean that the powers that be wil have to go back and see what worked in the past, and bring it into the future. Why were the wrestlers, in my opinion, better then than now? They had the small, local promotions which had arena matches every week, gave the stars of the area the mic time, and they had the audience to feed off of. Fast foward to now, wrestling schools are fine, but you don't get that touring chance, you develope your mic skills in an audience free setting, so no feedback. Many of the wrestlers in the past already had their characters in tune, and didn't have to tinker with the formula. That is what is different now. Seems you see a wrestler, and a week from then, you see him in another character. And while I aplaud development leagues, the local promotions were right, and could work again, look at NWA.

[Akki]

There's no way the business is going back to the territory system. There already are plenty of local promotions, and while some fall by the wayside pretty quickly, there are some good ones that do build up their stars. Wrestling has evolved, and while I agree that both WWE and TNA need to look to the past for ideas in storylines or gimmicks or just the product they offer, the business isn't going to go backwards.

[masterded]

Just to let you know AWA is now being shown on espn classic.

[Basmat01]

I dont know if you've noticed but wrestling these day seems to be about Fast paced wrestling and who can take the bigger spot. As a fan of WWE I like abit of storyline behind the matches but thats just me.

[dvdWarrior]

[QUOTE=masterded;385651]Just to let you know AWA is now being shown on espn classic.[/QUOTE] And it's pretty good too. I think these are the AWA shows I saw on ESPN when I was a kid. They just started with these the other night, and I've already seen a young Shawn Michaels, a young Scott Hall, not to mention Curt Hennig and Nick Bockwinkle among others. I like a little storyline to my wrestling as well, but I'm one of those that likes wrestling storylines. The stuff they do today is just so all over the place, and a lot of the time, there's just a little too much soap opera in it for me. Fortunately, I have WWE 24/7 now, so I can just get lost in the 80's or 90's for a while from time to time. I know wrestling can't go backward, but I'm hoping they'll eventually stop going sideways. :)

[masterded]

[QUOTE=dvdWarrior;385712]And it's pretty good too. I think these are the AWA shows I saw on ESPN when I was a kid. They just started with these the other night, and I've already seen a young Shawn Michaels, a young Scott Hall, not to mention Curt Hennig and Nick Bockwinkle among others. I like a little storyline to my wrestling as well, but I'm one of those that likes wrestling storylines. The stuff they do today is just so all over the place, and a lot of the time, there's just a little too much soap opera in it for me. Fortunately, I have WWE 24/7 now, so I can just get lost in the 80's or 90's for a while from time to time. I know wrestling can't go backward, but I'm hoping they'll eventually stop going sideways. :)[/QUOTE] You have ESPN Classic and WWE 24/7. I hate you:D . But, I am too damn cheap to pay for anything more then basic/standard.

[dvdWarrior]

[QUOTE=masterded;385718]You have ESPN Classic and WWE 24/7. I hate you:D . But, I am too damn cheap to pay for anything more then basic/standard.[/QUOTE] I love 24/7, the Minday Nitro section of the Monday Night Wars and the WWE Old School shows alone are worth the price of admission to me, not to mention the NWA shows, the World Class shows, recent WWE PPVs, and everything else. It's well worth it if you have it available in your area. :)

[SHaynes23]

Yep, I was flipping though the channels last night and there stood Scott "Magnum" Hall on my screen. I almost spit my Kool-Aid all over the screen. That is some quality television programming.

[Steeldogfan]

That's where WWE is missing the target. I love to be entertained as well, but when you tinker with the esential product, you either improve it, or you miss the target. TNA is closer to the mark with their product. I see them pushing the wrestling slightly ahead of the storylines. The absolute best show I have seen in a while was the TNA Global Impact at the beginning of the year. This is how wrestling should be done. I'm not saying go back to the squash matches of the 70s and 80s, aka Sting vs Joe Blow the Booger Man. I'm saying give me the wrestling with the storylines thrown in, not storylines with wrestling thrown in. At 45, I can say that I was more entertained by the wrestling of that time peroid. The shows I pointed out in my first post here are much like that. And I found out the April 5th, Southern Allstar Wrestling will be on the ion network. Shows like this give me hope that someone has gotten "it".

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Steeldogfan;385777] I'm not saying go back to the squash matches of the 70s and 80s, aka Sting vs Joe Blow the Booger Man. I'm saying give me the wrestling with the storylines thrown in, not storylines with wrestling thrown in. At 45, I can say that I was more entertained by the wrestling of that time peroid. The shows I pointed out in my first post here are much like that. And I found out the April 5th, Southern Allstar Wrestling will be on the ion network. Shows like this give me hope that someone has gotten "it".[/QUOTE] Agreed. The interview should lead to the match. Not the match to the interview. Storylines should all lead to the ring and either end there or as a direct result of what happened in the final match. When that happens it can be the old-school "Hey you stole my prize saddle" deal or more "Who is the love child?" like we've been getting in recent years. Makes no difference to me. But it should be the wrestling that counts most regardless of the storyline around it.

[Steeldogfan]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;385793]Agreed. The interview should lead to the match. Not the match to the interview. Storylines should all lead to the ring and either end there or as a direct result of what happened in the final match. When that happens it can be the old-school "Hey you stole my prize saddle" deal or more "Who is the love child?" like we've been getting in recent years. Makes no difference to me. But it should be the wrestling that counts most regardless of the storyline around it.[/QUOTE] You hit the nail on the head my friend. Look at RAW from last night. Is it really necessary to have Y2J's Highlight Reel, and no match to come about after? Waste of time! That time could have been filled showcasing new talent. Instead of a "Vince McMahon KMA skit" why not use that time wisely and give us, oh, I don't know, maybe wrestling? I know that is a hard concept to grasp, wrestling on a wrestling show? Heaven forbid! WWE has three shows under their umbrella, you would think that at least one would be for wrestling. WWE needs to take a look at the TNA Global Impact show I mentioned before, they might learn something. The Kurt Angle/Yuji Nagata match was by far the most entertaining match to come about in years. If this match doesn't win match of the year, it should at least be in the top three. And please WWE, stop booking three way matches for the title at every Wrestlemania! That is no fun for me at all.

[AfRoMaN36]

I agree with alot of things you say and belive it or not I was about to open up a thread where I asked how you would book the WWE right now if given full ownership creatively. So I'll just write my thoughts. I think you're right in that the WWE wastes times with skits and dumb angles, but this DOES cater to some people. They cater to the mass audience and while you may not like it, 5 other guys do. But their is deffinately a middle ground that it can reach. Man if only we were on the creative team. If I were in charge of everything, I'd make RAW THE SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT show. Its the home to all the poop and midget jokes anchored by big names who arent strong wrestlers. (Cena, Batista.) It would make perfect sense too since Vince loves big guys and he LOVES RAW so obviously over the other 2 brands it isnt even debatable. Smackdown would be the traditional show. Dusty Rhodes would likely be put here to book. I'd put big names who CAN wrestle here. (Y2J, HBK) this has its skits because well, its the WWE. But this one starts and ends in the ring. The storylines involve being the best in the ring and not who is my love child. Pretty much how Smackdown was when Stephanie was the on screen GM. We gave her crap because shes a McMahon, but she knew how to book that show and if she is still booking it... she forgot. ECW will be the wrestling/ extreme hybrid. Where it wont be RAW vs Smackdown vs ECW... its gunna be JUST ECW all the time. Styles will only mention other brands to insult them. They will segragate themselves entirely. No stupid skits whatsoever! All matches will be No DQ, however for network purposes, their will only be about one "ECDUB" worthy moment an episode. And we will push the envelope as far as the network will possibly allow. The criuserweights will call this their home too and they will wrestle their tiny hearts out. This will also be the "adult" brand. And it needs to have the adult feel as far as the network will go again. Which means sluts.... plenty of sluts..... we can't have too many sluts. AND DRUG REFRENCES GALORE!!!! .... Dont do drugs.

[Steeldogfan]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;385824]I agree with alot of things you say and belive it or not I was about to open up a thread where I asked how you would book the WWE right now if given full ownership creatively. So I'll just write my thoughts. I think you're right in that the WWE wastes times with skits and dumb angles, but this DOES cater to some people. They cater to the mass audience and while you may not like it, 5 other guys do. But their is deffinately a middle ground that it can reach. Man if only we were on the creative team. If I were in charge of everything, I'd make RAW THE SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT show. Its the home to all the poop and midget jokes anchored by big names who arent strong wrestlers. (Cena, Batista.) It would make perfect sense too since Vince loves big guys and he LOVES RAW so obviously over the other 2 brands it isnt even debatable. Smackdown would be the traditional show. Dusty Rhodes would likely be put here to book. I'd put big names who CAN wrestle here. (Y2J, HBK) this has its skits because well, its the WWE. But this one starts and ends in the ring. The storylines involve being the best in the ring and not who is my love child. Pretty much how Smackdown was when Stephanie was the on screen GM. We gave her crap because shes a McMahon, but she knew how to book that show and if she is still booking it... she forgot. ECW will be the wrestling/ extreme hybrid. Where it wont be RAW vs Smackdown vs ECW... its gunna be JUST ECW all the time. Styles will only mention other brands to insult them. They will segragate themselves entirely. No stupid skits whatsoever! All matches will be No DQ, however for network purposes, their will only be about one "ECDUB" worthy moment an episode. And we will push the envelope as far as the network will possibly allow. The criuserweights will call this their home too and they will wrestle their tiny hearts out. This will also be the "adult" brand. And it needs to have the adult feel as far as the network will go again. Which means sluts.... plenty of sluts..... we can't have too many sluts. AND DRUG REFRENCES GALORE!!!! .... Dont do drugs.[/QUOTE] I think that I will give this a try: Keep in mind that some wrestlers named are if I could recruit them. The first thing I would do is have the brand champions (WWE Champion, World, or Smackdown Champion, and ECW Champion) and have them unify the titles at Wrestlemania. The brand which doesn't have a champion would hold an eight man tournament for that title. So, for the sake of argument, Randy Orton vs Edge vs Chavo Guerrero at Wrestlemania 24. In my mind, the winner would be Randy Orton. He could go on all three brands. I would split the ppvs among all three brands, with Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam, and Survivor Series being the big 4 in which all brands would be involved. As you said, RAW should be for the big name guys who can't wrestle that well, and the crazy skits, and the poop jokes would do well there. The RAW brand would tour the major cities like New York, NY, Miami, Chicago, and cities like that, as well as the major cities overseas. My champions for RAW would be: Raw Champion-Undertaker Tag Team Champions-Hardcore Holly and Cody Rhodes Intercontinental Champion-Mr.Kennedy Smackdown would be for my cruiserweights, tag teams, and big names who can wrestle, but the focus would be technical wrestling. I agree with Dusty Rhodes booking Smackdown, but I would send Vickie Guerrero and Teddy Long to RAW. Smackdown would tour the secondary cities like Birmingham, Alabama, Austin, TX., and others. Smackdown Champion-R2J Tag Team Champions-The Edge Heads Crusierweight Champion-Jamie Noble ECW is a problem for me. Instead of touring the TV show, I would like to have it live from either the Hammerstein Ballroom, or even go back to the New Alhambra Arena. This would go back to the roots of the origional ECW. I would offer Paul Heyman a contract with nine zeros on it, and total control of the product. There would be little storylines, and the focus would be on the violence. Bring back guys like Sandman, Raven, Tommy Dreamer, Sabu, Dudley Boys, New Jack and let them put over new talent if need be. The ECW brand would tour the old ECW towns. ECW Champion-CM Punk Tag Team Champions-The Dudley Boys ECW TV Champion-Tommy Dreamer My main problem is that WWE has the WCW under it's umbrella, and is doing nothing with it. I would resurect WCW in the only place it could be brought back, in Atlanta, Georgia. I would bring back Starcade, and mimic the feel of the old WCW. There would be glitz and glammer, and the seat of your pants wrestling that WCW was known for. They would tour mostly in the South and Midwest areas. I would encourage Sting, Lex Luger, and other former WCW stars to take part. WCW Champion-Lex Luger WCW Tag Team Champions-The Naturals Well, it may be rough around the edges, but that would be my idea.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE]ECW is a problem for me. Instead of touring the TV show, I would like to have it live from either the Hammerstein Ballroom, or even go back to the New Alhambra Arena. This would go back to the roots of the origional ECW. I would offer Paul Heyman a contract with nine zeros on it, and total control of the product. There would be litle storylines, and focus on the violence. The ECW brand would tour the old ECW towns. My main problem is that WWE has the WCW under it's umbrella, and is doing nothing with it. I would resurect WCW in the only place it could be brought back, in Atlanta, Georgia. I would bring back Starcade, and mimic the feel of the old WCW. There would be glitz and glammer, and the seat of your pants wrestling that WCW was known for. They would tour mostly in the South and Midwest areas. Well, it may be rough around the edges, but that would be my idea.[/QUOTE] That is where in a business standpoint, you can't win. If it were possible, I would love for the ECW brand to be LIKE ECW! But 1. It costs too much to rent out 3 buildings a week vs two. 2. The gate will be garbage for the ECW arenas for the fact that that even a full house will only get you a few thousand bucks. I'm keeping the realistic needs of everyone else in check with my suggestion. Yes, I would also rehire Paul Heyman though, if not then Todd Gordon who is the real father of ECW anyway. And as for WCW having a brand. Never. ECW failed, WCW would be even worse. Even if booking it wouldnt be far off from booking a RAW. Most WCW guys are retired or old and decrepid. Thats Strike 2. And Vince McMahon giving attention to promotion whos employees wished him dead on a nightly basis? Plus having him actually resign that hack Lex Luger? Strike 3. And if New Jack ever gets a job for the WWE, I pray for the souls of whatever brand that monster is put on.

[Steeldogfan]

It would be fun to have a booking catagory in the boards. I might give TNA a try later. And I happen to like New Jack. I would book him in any promotion if just to cause a stir.

[AfRoMaN36]

Although, I'll admit.... watching Vince McMahon shake Ted Turners hand as he gives him power for the WCW brand = RATING$$$$ = The Youtube moment to end all Youtube moments.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=Steeldogfan;385835]It would be fun to have a booking catagory in the boards. I might give TNA a try later. And I happen to like New Jack. I would book him in any promotion if just to cause a stir.[/QUOTE] I would never hire that jackass in anything beyond a TEW game. He nearly killed Vic Grimes and ruined the life of Eric Kulas and showed no remorse for either case. Who the f*ck brings a knife to the ring? Didnt he also hit some 80 year old man with a bat several times in the ring because he "was working stiff." If Vince told me I had to wrestle him, I'd come down with the flu in a hurry.

[Steeldogfan]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;385837]Although, I'll admit.... watching Vince McMahon shake Ted Turners hand as he gives him power for the WCW brand = RATING$$$$ = The Youtube moment to end all Youtube moments.[/QUOTE] It would be like Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. on the same NASCAR team! it would be like the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox hugging after a game! it would be like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on the same ticket! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=Steeldogfan;385840]It would be like Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. on the same NASCAR team! it would be like the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox hugging after a game! it would be like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on the same ticket! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.[/QUOTE] Or as Tony Shiovonne would put it as he seemingly did each and every week, "The single greatest moment in sports entertainment history!"

[Steeldogfan]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;385839]I would never hire that jackass in anything beyond a TEW game. He nearly killed Vic Grimes and ruined the life of Eric Kulas and showed no remorse for either case. Who the f*ck brings a knife to the ring? Didnt he also hit some 80 year old man with a bat several times in the ring because he "was working stiff." If Vince told me I had to wrestle him, I'd come down with the flu in a hurry.[/QUOTE] I think that you should watch Forever Hardcore-The Documentary. According to New Jack, Vic Grimes botched a spot that should have killed both of them. I am not excusing New Jack's actions when he threw Vic of the scaffolding, but I may have been tempted to do the same thing. I'm not sure about Eric Kulas, inless he was Mass Transit mentioned in that DVD as well as The Rise and Fall of ECW.

[AfRoMaN36]

Yeah, I'm aware of the Vic Grimes botch. He botched it and New Jack was blind in one eye forever. But that was an accident and doesnt justify attempted murder. And yes Kulas is Mass Transit. What happened was, at a house show it was him and D-von vs Another tag team (I forgot) One of the wrestlers was sick and Kulas, an untrained 17 year old boy with his father vouching him as a 19 year old trained wrestler managed to get in that match as Paul Heymen felt he had no choice. He was told to do a blade job but didnt know how so he asked New Jack to do it for him. So the match comes and they absolutely dismantle this kid and when it comes time for the blade job, New Jack takes out a knife and litterally blades him in the forehead, cutting an artery. And he continues to beat the crap out of him even after the kid lays there screaming for his life, bleeding profusely and his father screaming at them to stop. Their is a video on Youtube somewhere, I'll link you as soon as I find it.