Tag Team Overness

[djlightning]

What do you think are tag teams sometimes more over than the workers involved in them, and if show should this be included in TEW?

[Day_Dreamer]

I remember suggesting something like this waaaaay back during the TEW 05 or maybe 07 coding. My idea was that tag-teams should either have a multiplier depending on their chemistry and experience to add to how over they are as a team in a particular area. or, to have tag-team overness as a special stat for each area which determines the match quality, and it'll give small bonuses to both the workers' individual popularity if there's a big differential.

[foolinc]

It's already in the game and the combination of Chemistry and Experience.

[djlightning]

That's not really true though, chemisty just means they work better together as a team than most guys. Experience just says they've been tagging together for a long time. But you look at teams like "The Stieners", "The Road Warriors" "The Hardy Boyz" "The Dudleys" "New Age Outlaws" all of these team were and probably still are more popular than the indivuals that made them up. Some of those tag teams have been huge sells in the past. Alternatively you can have tag teams that are not as popular as the stars that are in them too, I think of Power Trip (Austin and Triple H) or Brothers of Destruction, which was probably above Kane's overness but below Undertaker's. Or back when Austin and Micheal's were tag champ's it wasn't a team that liked each other at all, and were only together, because they had won the titles.

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392008]That's not really true though, chemisty just means they work better together as a team than most guys. Experience just says they've been tagging together for a long time. But you look at teams like "The Stieners", "The Road Warriors" "The Hardy Boyz" "The Dudleys" "New Age Outlaws" all of these team were and probably still are more popular than the indivuals that made them up. Some of those tag teams have been huge sells in the past. Alternatively you can have tag teams that are not as popular as the stars that are in them too, I think of Power Trip (Austin and Triple H) or Brothers of Destruction, which was probably above Kane's overness but below Undertaker's. Or back when Austin and Micheal's were tag champ's it wasn't a team that liked each other at all, and were only together, because they had won the titles.[/QUOTE] So you don't think the bonus (and their is a huge bonus for a tag team having GREAT chem and A* experience) is enough?

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392008] Alternatively you can have tag teams that are not as popular as the stars that are in them too, I think of Power Trip (Austin and Triple H) or Brothers of Destruction, which was probably above Kane's overness but below Undertaker's. Or back when Austin and Micheal's were tag champ's it wasn't a team that liked each other at all, and were only together, because they had won the titles.[/QUOTE] You've just named three teams that only existed to further singles angles, though.

[djlightning]

[QUOTE=foolinc;392010]So you don't think the bonus (and their is a huge bonus for a tag team having GREAT chem and A* experience) is enough?[/QUOTE] So tell me how much more merchandise does that sell for the team? How does that help the team in angles which takes overness into account. I mean if you hype a match between "The Dudleys" and "The New Age Outlaws" in real life you get good feed back, do the same in TEW, and it would be as good because those guys overness isn't as high as the tag teams are popular.

[djlightning]

[QUOTE=Phantom Stranger;392014]You've just named three teams that only existed to further singles angles, though.[/QUOTE] But my point is that the tag team has a popularity that is seperate from the indiviuals involved.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392018]But my point is that the tag team has a popularity that is seperate from the indiviuals involved.[/QUOTE] You're not exactly arguing against tag teams being more popular when they've had time to gain experience, though.

[djlightning]

well my problem is it's really hard to come up with unpopular tag teams even though they've been together for years, because they are unpopular and don't come to mind as quickly as popular teams. Also teams that don't get popular in a few years are usually broken up would be my guess. But just because you work well with someone, and you've been working with them for a long time doesn't mean you're over. Get my point?

[Day_Dreamer]

But experience isn't really everything when it comes to tag teams. Some recently formed teams make a lot of money on merch compared to individuals, take MCMG for example.

[dvdWarrior]

I'd love to see something like Tag Team Overness included in the game. Personally, I've always wanted a Tag Team Psychology stat for the workers. It'd be cool. :)

[Day_Dreamer]

I second the tag teams psychology stat. It would definitely be cool.

[gingarob]

I love this idea, from my experience (of real world mods especially) Teams like 3D have overness above their singular levels but fair for their team overness. This results in things like Brother Ray winning the TNA World Heavyweight Championship - which would be ludicrous. Having team overness could mean that both wrestlers could have midcard overness but as a unit they could be main eventers.

[Steeldogfan]

But then you have to take into account of a member growing at a different rate than the team. The Midnight Rockers were AWA tag team champions, and made a huge dent in the WWE/F tag team ranks. However, Shawn Michaels became more popular then the team. How would this be handled in a game? Also how about career tag teams, such as the ones named like Team 3D, The James Gang, Road Warriors, and such. Do they get broken up for the sake of a storyline?

[djlightning]

Well Team 3D and the James Gang have already been broken up before. As for Shawn Micheals gaining popularity faster than then the team that could happen by him really standing out in the matches, if you wanted to try pushing that more, in booker notes have him kept strong or dominating.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392068]Well Team 3D and the James Gang have already been broken up before. As for Shawn Micheals gaining popularity faster than then the team that could happen by him really standing out in the matches, if you wanted to try pushing that more, in booker notes have him kept strong or dominating.[/QUOTE] But if he's just gaining overness as a tag team, how does that help? If they're gaining popularity separately, doesn't that seem a tad exploitable?

[djlightning]

I don't see how that would be an exploit, I mean think about it, take Marc Jindrak and Sean O'Haire. Back in WCW this tag team was gain some serious heat, neither one of them had success as singles workers in WWE, but other guys were known because of there tag team work. So let's say the team goes up 1% maybe each worker goes up .5%. Now lets say one guy stands out more than the other so he goes up .6% well the other goes up that .5%. Does that seem like an exploit? I would say no.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392071]I don't see how that would be an exploit, I mean think about it, take Marc Jindrak and Sean O'Haire. Back in WCW this tag team was gain some serious heat, neither one of them had success as singles workers in WWE, but other guys were known because of there tag team work. So let's say the team goes up 1% maybe each worker goes up .5%. Now lets say one guy stands out more than the other so he goes up .6% well the other goes up that .5%. Does that seem like an exploit? I would say no.[/QUOTE] It's a pretty major one, dude. If these guys can't get over solo, the team gives them a boost. If one of them gets over more than the other, you cut him solo anyway. Basically it guarantees at least one smash hit. Look at it this way - Adam doesn't add features without downsides. What's the downside to this?

[Steeldogfan]

If I may, you have two upsides: Either you wind up with a great tag team, or you wind up getting the next breakout superstar.

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392071]I don't see how that would be an exploit, I mean think about it, take Marc Jindrak and Sean O'Haire. Back in WCW this tag team was gain some serious heat, neither one of them had success as singles workers in WWE, but other guys were known because of there tag team work. So let's say the team goes up 1% maybe each worker goes up .5%. Now lets say one guy stands out more than the other so he goes up .6% well the other goes up that .5%. Does that seem like an exploit? I would say no.[/QUOTE] So in game terms they had great chemistry, gained overness from the chem bonus, were split up and were either booked incorrect, got unlucky, or weren't good enough.

[djlightning]

[QUOTE=Phantom Stranger;392074]It's a pretty major one, dude. If these guys can't get over solo, the team gives them a boost. If one of them gets over more than the other, you cut him solo anyway. Basically it guarantees at least one smash hit. Look at it this way - Adam doesn't add features without downsides. What's the downside to this?[/QUOTE] Well the only way you can't get a guy over in singles is if his single overness is capped out, in that case his overness wouldn't go up any more as it's already capped out. And just like individuals have a random overness cap so would tag teams, so you might find two guys with great chemistry together thinking lets push these guys to the moon, only to find out their team caps out at C- overness, wouldn't that be a downside?

[Akki]

[QUOTE=djlightning;392098]Well the only way you can't get a guy over in singles is if his single overness is capped out, in that case his overness wouldn't go up any more as it's already capped out. And just like individuals have a random overness cap so would tag teams, so you might find two guys with great chemistry together thinking lets push these guys to the moon, only to find out their team caps out at C- overness, wouldn't that be a downside?[/QUOTE] I don't think something that already such a part of the game as an overness cap is enough of a downside. And there are plenty of reasons why you might not be able to get a guy over as a singles wrestler. He has bad charisma, entertainment, start quality, whatever. Or even bad skills. It depends on the promotion. But put him in a team with someone who he has great chemistry with, and suddenly he starts getting more popular. And you even suggested that there should be a way to make one of them look better, which means that you could just let him gain popularity even faster. Sorry, but I still don't see a downside.

[Jouzy]

The downside would probably be that they get an image of being tag starts and even if they weren't veery good otherwise, their matches were only good in tag matches. I'm not a fan of the idea, but thats a downside for you.

[djlightning]

[QUOTE=Akki;392104]I don't think something that already such a part of the game as an overness cap is enough of a downside. And there are plenty of reasons why you might not be able to get a guy over as a singles wrestler. He has bad charisma, entertainment, start quality, whatever. Or even bad skills. It depends on the promotion. But put him in a team with someone who he has great chemistry with, and suddenly he starts getting more popular. And you even suggested that there should be a way to make one of them look better, which means that you could just let him gain popularity even faster. Sorry, but I still don't see a downside.[/QUOTE] I disagree because in just about every promotion you can get a guy over by putting him over more over workers. So if you wanted to get a guy with no stats over you could by jobbing out your roster to him, probably not the best way to do it but could be done, with the only thing stopping him being overness cap. Here's the bottom line though, back in the day The Dudley's and The New Age Outlaws probably sold as much merchandise as anybody, the only way to make TEW simulate that is to overstate the workers popularity, So suddenly Road Dogg and Billy Gunn have B+ or A overness. Where in reality only as a Tag team were they ever that popular. Same thing for The Dudleys, probably could say the same for The Road Warrior and the Stieners.