Lucha Advice?

[hakk99]

My long running japan game is slowing down so I thought I'd explore the Cverse south of the border for a few months before 08 comes out. There are many interesting characters to use and it's cool playing in a country with three equal, but regional companies. But how do I book? I assumed, based on the characters and love of soap opera, that it would be similar to Sports Entertainment, but in fact the lucha feds all have 90-100 % match ratios and there aren't that many workers anyway who can survive just doing great angles. I've spent the last several months booking puro style and focusing on in ring skills and clean finishes. This doesn't seem to work for lucha as there are very few wrestlers with any technical or brawling skills. Besides booking lucha matches is there anything else I need to do to satisfy the lucha fans? Should all my matches be lucha matches? Why does every lucha match end with someone grabbing tights or using the ropes? Of course I know I can simply create sports entertainment lucha, or puro-lucha, but I was hoping to try something new and I couldn't find any lucha dynasties to borrow from. Suggestions?

[Irish Wolf]

Ok here we go as I've been putzing around with the Lucha world for a bit on some side games. SOTBPW has the best talent in the Mexican world and starting with a TV show doesn't hurt. With the medium cult the crowd will be vocal about who they don't like (I'm looking at you reaper cicero and reaper dante). You can easily pull off C+, B- and even B shows with the SOTBPW roster as is. I used some angles but only with main eventers or else they'll tank but Mario Heroic and Champagne Lover will more then be able to pull the angles off. OLLIE's got a decent roster but even putting the talented main eventers against each other (and with excellent chemistry) I've not been able to get more than a C+ main event usually a C or C-. It's got a lot of interesting stories to be told especially with The Swarm vs Tres Phoenix. I used a free English Spanish traslator and tried to translate most of the names to Spanish. You can hold stead make money and creep forward as OLLIE but to expand you are going to have to take risks and expand into other territories. With realism so low you can use Cheap and Tainted victories to tell your stories in the ring without using any angles (since you can't anyway they have a 100% match ratio) MPWF is much closer to an American sports entertainment company than any of the others. I don't do SE well but I tried to give it a try and without using the editor I got the owner to let me drop the match ratio from 90% to 80% without making any other changes. You've got some decent talent and soem good youngsters to bring up but it's along hard road. I'd say the same here as OLLIE you can make some money and inch up in popularity in your own region by holding weekly shows but it's hard. Moving up faster requires expanding which is going to drain you cash reserve so be careful. For all Lucha promotions remember it is the epic battle of good versus evil the fans want so give it to them. If you're not writing a diary you kind of have to imagine it in your mind but even that can be fun. DOn't be afraid to use a tone of multiman matches. In my OLLIE game I've got 8 tag teams and three trios each of which encompasses one of the tag teams. The best thing about Mexico is that every month at least one new Luchador comes on the scene so you may not start with the biggest talent pool to choose from but it grows really fast and some of the talent is really good.

[FuelFan0102]

and don't forget 3 v 3 matches, as well as 2/3 falls. Oh, and big feuds most often end with a lucha de aspuesta match

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=FuelFan0102;393241]Oh, and big feuds most often end with a lucha de aspuesta match[/QUOTE] Which (given that he's asking for advice cos he doesn't know much about lucha) doesn't help at all unless you actually say what that is! :rolleyes:

[D-Lyrium]

Especially when the word is 'respuesta' :p All 'Lucha De Respuesta' means is, literally, 'fight of answers'. It's just a term for the blowoff match in a feud. And not a very common term, either ¬_¬

[hakk99]

Thanks for the info. I definitely could see the potential of each of the rosters. My main question was more along the lines of types of matches. Are all matches of the 2/3 falls variety or is that a specialty match? My Japanese fans didn't care for tables or ladders or even cages, how will they play in Mexico? I know some product settings affect what types of gimmicks get over, is that true of lucha? I knew from my minimal research the importance of good vs evil but was unsure how to translate that into game terms without angles. I've noticed that a lot of Mexican workers are great as face or heel but terrible as the opposite. Will the fans therefore expect fewer turns? It seems from the Cverse history that lucha turns are monumental events. In the US, usually, you get high match ratings by building up heat and momentum between two over workers. In Japan you get high match ratings by putting two great wrestlers together. Neither of these strategies seems like it would make sense for the Mexican promotions as neither mainstream nor pure are key features of the product. Actually the more questions I ask, the more I don't want an answer as it will be interesting to discover it myself, though i would like to know what aspects of the game the lucha product setting affects.

[Irish Wolf]

If you look Mainstream is at least medium in all three of the feds products and MPWF has it as Heavy I believe. Here's what I do and it's worked with OLLIE thus far I run almost exclusively Lucha Libre matches which are by default 2/3 falls. And yes no matter what you do the game will say some one won with a foreign object or tights just ignore it. I've had one cage match in OLLIE and when I was playing SOTBPW I did a ladder match and had no problems. Truth is I'm watching AAA right now on TV and there hasn't been a single 2/3 falls traditional lucha libre match on the whole show. Actually the three matches I've seen so far have been 4 on 4 single fall match ups. And one match had a woman wrestling with the men. I don't understand Spanish so I have no clue what's going on. I also don't get the AAA big events so I've never watched one so I don't know how they build things up but from what I can tell they build up to the big event 1 on 1 matches by having the opponents as one of the members of the multi man matches.

[D-Lyrium]

From what very little I know of lucha: - Very few matches should be straight-up 1vs1. They only really happen at the larger events, for more important matches (such as feud blowoffs and title matches). - Never, under any circumstances, should your Face/Heel divide be anything other than Strong. Face vs. Face matches are rare, and Heel vs. Heel matches almost never happen. - Not every match needs to be a "lucha libre match", but avoid gimmick matches unless there's a genuine reason. Hair vs. Hair/Mask vs. Mask/Hair vs. Mask matches are more common in Mexico, because (as I'm sure you're aware) a wrestler's mask means so much more than anything else. If you do ever unmask a wrestler, never EVER EVER EVER give it back to him at a later date. Just ask Rey Mysterio what happens if you do :P - Gimmicks are usually very important (so lots of Mainstream and Comedy), and generally speaking there's almost no 'grey area' gimmicks. Tweeners don't exist. Faces ("tecnicos") are heroes, Heels ("rudos") are complete and utter *******s. When rudos win, it's nearly always by some form of cheating or tainted finish, because the tecnicos are too high and mighty to ever lose cleanly, the fans just wouldn't accept it could happen ¬_¬ - Mainstream damn well should be a key feature of the product! :p Well, above Medium, at the least.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Apupunchau@optonline;393308]Truth is I'm watching AAA right now on TV and there hasn't been a single 2/3 falls traditional lucha libre match on the whole show. [/QUOTE] To be fair though, AAA does everything possible to separate itself form the traditional lucha libre product. They are a trying to be more of a SE fed, with more over the top characters, lots of American workers in recent months, and lots more reliance on actual promos than any other company would use. If you wanted to re-create a traditional lucha fed, AAA would be one of the last companies I'd look at.

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;393330]To be fair though, AAA does everything possible to separate itself form the traditional lucha libre product. They are a trying to be more of a SE fed, with more over the top characters, lots of American workers in recent months, and lots more reliance on actual promos than any other company would use. If you wanted to re-create a traditional lucha fed, AAA would be one of the last companies I'd look at.[/QUOTE] They used to play CMLL on Galavision as well but I can't seem to find it and I'm too lazy to download. But yeah I had noticed AAA were importing a lot of American wrestlers recently. [QUOTE=D-Lyrium;393326]- Mainstream damn well should be a key feature of the product! :p Well, above Medium, at the least.[/QUOTE] MPWF (The more SE of the three) Has Mainstream set as Key, OLLIE and SOTBPW have it as Medium which I think is fine. All the other things you've described which I totally agree with lend more to what traditional Lucha Libre is and that is why they MPWF and OLLIE have Traditional set at Key and STOBPW (which adds cult and modern) has it set as High.

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=hakk99;393167]Why does every lucha match end with someone grabbing tights or using the ropes? Suggestions?[/QUOTE] That's a bug, I asked Ryland about it last week. Said that it should be fixed in the next patch. And yes, Lucha is awesome in CornellVerse, and I support the love of it. And sign Extranjero Loco. Complete lack of talent, but damn if he doesn't have the coolest mask and gimmick in all of the C-Verse.

[FuelFan0102]

[QUOTE=D-Lyrium;393292]Especially when the word is 'respuesta' :p All 'Lucha De Respuesta' means is, literally, 'fight of answers'. It's just a term for the blowoff match in a feud. And not a very common term, either ¬_¬[/QUOTE] I did misspell it, but it was Lucha[B]s[/B] de aspuestas, aka "Match with wagers" aka Mask/Hair. I think we were looking for different terms D :)