My Suggestion

[JD61572]

The data I use when I play TEW07 is the DOTT scenario. While I think it is a great scenario, sometimes I wish I could start a game in 75 or 89 instead of 83. After seeing all of these features geared towards historical mods that Adam has announced for TEW08 it occurred to me that there should be a way to do this. The way stats are done would have to change. Instead of doing them like they are now which is basically what levels the person is currently at, you would have a minimum and a maximum level. I don't know how exactly you would go about doing that, maybe a bar with two sliders? The person would have a birthdate and a debut date and based on when the game is set to be played the computer would use a formula based on all of these things to set their stats to a realistic level. For overness I think you would do something very similar to the way stats are calculated. Contracts could have dates attached to them so you could basically map out a worker's entire career. Say you had Hulk Hogan set to be in the WWF from 84-93 and you start your game in 87, Hogan would be in WWF but his contract wouldn't automatically end in 93. The dates would just be guidelines for what starting rosters should be. There are obviously lots of things to take into consideration to make this work the way it should so I will be realistic about it's chances of being included in 08 and maybe hold out hope for it in a future TEW. I think this is the way the game needs to go though. Right now I have real world scenarios set in 83, 93, 97 and 07 on my computer but with this feature there would only need to be one magnificent scenario. The only limits on the potential of this feature would be the amount of effort mod makers are able or willing to put in. I apologize if this has been suggested before.

[thedraem41]

The one problem I see is, the game isn't just being made for historical mods, not everyone plays them. Me being one of those people, so I don't see why there would be a complete overhaul in everything. What you suggested seems to take away most of the challenge of playing the game.

[Jaded]

[QUOTE=thedraem41;396922] What you suggested seems to take away most of the challenge of playing the game.[/QUOTE] How does it take away the challenge? I can see that it could be too much work for Adam to consider, but don't see how it makes the game substantially easier.

[cyberkitten01]

While it would be pretty fun, the only way I can think of it working would be to have the start date of the world database, say 1975 where all the stats and new workers set to debut in their right years up to 2008 or whatever. You can pick when you want to start your game and then it's simmed from 1975 to the date your game begins, so I imagine lots of wierd stuff could happen by the time you get to 1990 like Hulk died, Paul Heyman ended up booking for MLW instead of Eastern Championship Wrestling, I dunno. Either way sounds like a lot of work and potentially not very rewarding. The only other thing I can think of is having your 1975 database, and then you have a couple of dates whereby you can start playing from those points only, but that's more like having several database for the one game world, which would be silly. Either way, nice idea but not really very practical I don't think. Especially for the mod makers

[Akki]

Thing is, part of this is already in 08. Since the Workers and New Workers sections are combined, I'm assuming that everyone will have a debut date, meaning that depending on when you start the game, the workers with debut dates by then will be there. Maybe the same thing will happen with promotions. I think that your stats idea is both too simple in terms of results and too complex in terms of application. If you're too lazy to take the time to mod the data for the workers who will have different stats, wait for someone to make a mod.

[JD61572]

[QUOTE]The one problem I see is, the game isn't just being made for historical mods, not everyone plays them.[/QUOTE] I don't see this as a problem really. Let's say you are playing the cornellverse, wouldn't the game have even more replayability if instead of always having to start at the preset start date you could start whenever you wanted? Perhaps the way I get there isn't ideal but I really feel that my goal is a good one. Adam is much smarter than I am so I'm sure he would figure out a better way to do it that would please everyone. [QUOTE]the only way I can think of it working would be to have the start date of the world database, say 1975 where all the stats and new workers set to debut in their right years up to 2008 or whatever. You can pick when you want to start your game and then it's simmed from 1975 to the date your game begins,[/QUOTE] You are thinking of how the game works right now. This wouldn't be necessary if you did what I'm talking about. The only time frame limits would be how much info had been put in by the mod makers. [QUOTE]I imagine lots of wierd stuff could happen by the time you get to 1990 like Hulk died, Paul Heyman ended up booking for MLW instead of Eastern Championship Wrestling, I dunno.[/QUOTE] You would preset everything so they would start out doing whatever they were doing on the date you start your game. You could have worker death dates and retirement dates that could be preset too. That way you wouldn't have geezers like Lou Thesz still wrestling when you start a game in 08. Also it could add a sense of realism for people who want it by having Owen Hart die in 99 for example, or you could leave the death dates blank if you are someone who likes surprises. [QUOTE]Thing is, part of this is already in 08.[/QUOTE] The operative phrase there being "part of this". If you were using the DOTT data for example, sure you could have a game start in 75 instead of 83 if you wanted and everyone would be in the world that should be but their stats would be completely out of whack. Ric Flair would already be a wrestling God after being in the business only a couple of years. I want a way for you to be able to do that game in 75 and not just be using all the data that only applies to 83.

[cyberkitten01]

So you effectively program the game with the entire history of wrestling. Certain events such as Paul Heyman starting with ECW, or Brian Pillman and Steve Austin start teaming together in WCW, Kane winning the title from Stone Cold to happen on the dates they did in real life, and they occurr depending on when you want to start the game?

[JD61572]

I think a lot of that stuff you mentioned cyberkitten is already in the game now. One of the announced features for 08 is that you can have Paul Heyman start ECW. The Austin and Pillman tag team thing is already in the game too although if you mean would there be some sort of history of their team other than that they were tag team partners in WCW then no. Kane winning the title from Austin is already in the game too. I'm not sure how you would go about incorporating the title histories and current champions together but again, Adam is smarter than me. And yeah, if you started your game in 1990 then none of this stuff would have happened yet. Heyman would still start ECW on a certain date and Pillman and Austin could still be set to be in a team in WCW if they both end up there just like the way the game is now.

[cyberkitten01]

The tag teams and owners tied to promotions is in 08, as long as Heyman isn't employed somewhere else at the time ECW is founded (but then technically it was Eastern Championship Wrestling and he just changed the name when he took it over.. but forget that), however say you're booking WCW or NWA, would you want it that certain things in the game world still happened, like Undertaker and Mankind feuding which ends in a Buried Alive match at PPV, Kane debuting in a Hell In A Cell match between Taker and Shawn Michaels? Using the Attitude Era as another example, would you have it so that at some point in 98/99 Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo leave WWF for WCW, and likewise later Benoit, Malenko, Saturn and Guerrero leave WCW for WWF, or just let the game play it out as we currently do, whereby those people likely would never have left their respective companies?

[Self]

[QUOTE=cyberkitten01;397072]Using the Attitude Era as another example, would you have it so that at some point in 98/99 Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo leave WWF for WCW, and likewise later Benoit, Malenko, Saturn and Guerrero leave WCW for WWF, or just let the game play it out as we currently do, whereby those people likely would never have left their respective companies?[/QUOTE] I'm hoping that with the increase emphasis on backstage politics (or at least the illusion of it) and the AI having to deal with more of what the player does (think I read that somewhere) under-appreciated workers would get pissed off and leave. The thing is, would the game be foolish enough to under-use Chris Benoit? Or Eddie Guerrero?

[NickC13573]

and plus, their is already the destiny stat

[JD61572]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what my intention was here. Let me give you an example. Say I want to start a game as the WWF in January of 90. First of all the mod I am playing will hopefully have the contract information, the right wrestlers active at that time and the right promotions active. Once I start the game the contracts that are set to happen from that point on would no longer matter and the game would function just like the game does now. So the Undertaker and Mankind would most likely not have a feud in 1996 that plays out exactly the same way that it did in real life. Also the game would have no record of Hogan feuding with Andre in 87. You would have the accurate rosters for what was going on in January of 90 and based on what a person's age, debut date, and then whatever kind of stat calculations need to be thrown in there (which could easily include the destiny stat) that would make up the skills of each wrestler. I'm not trying to suggest that the game be made to exactly map out the entire history of wrestling. All I'm saying is that it would be nice to be able to start a game at various points in history and have the data at least try to reflect what was happening at that time as far as contracts and stats and whatnot.

[Derek B]

You know, when you put it like that... I'd be delighted to play a mod with only a vague notion of accuracy that would take a massive overhaul of the current system to create. :o Seriously though, I'm not against the idea in principle but it would be almost impossible to make work because anything short of accuracy would simply make the database wrong. And there is a very limited market for databases that are only in a ballpark in terms of roster when what a good mod does is set the tone for the era they are based in and allow players to play from there.

[JD61572]

[QUOTE]And there is a very limited market for databases that are only in a ballpark in terms of roster when what a good mod does is set the tone for the era they are based in and allow players to play from there.[/QUOTE] Where did you get the idea that rosters would only be ballpark? Rosters COULD only be ballpark if the people making the mod didn't do their homework. There is no reason why it would be impossible to have accurate rosters though so your criticism on this front is moot. However, if you want to talk about stats that might be a little different story. Right now when you play a game the stats are based on the mod maker's opinions/guesses. If my suggestion were implemented the stats would then be based off of a formula based on where a worker should be in terms of age and length of career combined with the mod maker's opinions/guesses. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to make it where someone would always have a certain level of skills no matter what point they are at in their career, say if you wanted Ric Flair to always have a 100 in charisma.

[The Phenom]

I think this idea works betters in conjuction with the Cornellverse. Obviously not to be implemented this year, but if I get what the OP was trying to say it could lead to the "ultimate" TEW in the future. Basically I see it as creating everything into a timeline. From beginning to current startdate. Currently you have just a wrestlers current stats, however in this scenario is whole career would be mapped out. For instance, take Hulk Hogan. In 1993 he had 6 months left on his contract, he would go on to win fifth WWF title at Wrestlemania, lose it at King of the Ring, leave WWF and take a hiatus from wrestling, sign with WCW in the summer of 1994. So with that said if you started First week of 1993, Hulk Hogan is still under contract with WWF with his stats reflecting his abilities at the start of that year, everything that would follow is to be determined by the game. Maybe he stays with WWF, maybe he never wins his 5th title, maybe he retires, whatever. Now say you start in 1994, Hogan would be on hiatus, having left WWF as planned and having his stats reflect his abilities of 1994(perhaps a lost of overness, a change in his relationship with Vince). He also would have his 5th title reign now reflected to his history, what happens after is of course left up the game. Maybe he goes to Japan instead of WCW, maybe he becomes a big star in Hollywood, maybe he creates his own promotion, or quits wrestling all together. Likewise, if you start in 1995 he would be in WCW as the reigning WCW champion, with new stats, chalked up with a whole bunch of new political friends like Eric Bichoff and Ted Turner. Once again everything that happens from that point would be left to the game world, maybe he never becomes Hollywood Hulk Hogan, never becomes the third member of the nWo(maybe there never is a nWo?), never comes back to WWE or wins a 6th WWE title. Obviously thats a huge undertaking to create, default databases for each year, although such a task should be easier for mod makers as they have real history to pull from, versus Adam having to create his own history. But perhaps one day Adam can one day synch all the databases of the prior games to create such a feature. Someone mentioned playing the 2005 roster with the 2008 features and that would be how I propose it being done, although I don't know how feasable my idea is I do think it would be awesome.

[Akki]

This feature started with talking about starting a game earlier than the mod was designed for. That not being unfeasable enough, we're now talking about going into an accurately simulated future? If you want a 2000-era mod's worth of work added to a 1990-era mod, why not just make the 2000 mod, which would probably be more accurate than anything that has to start in 1990 and be simulated 10 years by the game? You say that this would solve replayability problems. I wasn't aware that there were any, as if you're willing to experiment (as kinky as that may sound), there are all kinds of mods that can keep you playing for a very very long time. Hell, EWR's been out for what? 5 years? More? And plenty of people still play it. This thing seems like it would be a lot of work for nothing. Even worse, this idea seems to become more and more outrageous every time someone makes a post supporting it.

[The Phenom]

But if you have a 1990 database, a 91, a 92, a 93, is it really unfeasible to make a linear database rather than 4 seperate databases? I am in favor of this suggestion in how I see it being used in the Cornellverse, there are already premade databases from past games, why not sync them up as such that you can play using any of those various startpoints in conjunction with the next game? Go back and keep the HGC running, and never have Tommy take over and turn it into TCW. Or go back to any crucial moment that has happened since the first game was made and try to keep history from repeating, keep your favorite promotion from closing, or don't push your favorite so hard thus preventing him from becoming an arrogant malcontent. Thats the idea, now that can be manipulated by mod makers to make a seamless history of real life wrestling. Rather than have to make seperate mods for every situation, or even come up with some complicated way to calculate stat increase/decreases in order to start mods at different starting dates, just combine existing databases to make everything linear. A Pre-Montreal mod for instance is really just a 1997 mod, Post-Montreal mod 98, I think think that (eventually) the game should combine the two. I am just operating under the thought that it would be cool to have the option to work in reverse. It's one thing to take Tommy Cornell the best wrestler in the world and showcase that, but what about as a rookie, or as he is rising the ranks, having to handle his first title reign, etc. Again a lot of this could be accomplished by joining the past databases together it never has to be more than that. But if Adam where to do it he could (eventually) paint the picture of what, say Sam Stone's career looked like in 1985, and because such updates would be big deals and so time consuming he could charge for each update making it a a nice way to increase cash flow, and thusly more games. I don't know, as I said before, it may indeed be entirely to cumbersome to consider, but I do see it as an idea that if able to be implmented would enhance gameplay.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=The Phenom;397190]I don't know, as I said before, it may indeed be entirely to cumbersome to consider, but I do see it as an idea that if able to be implmented would enhance gameplay.[/QUOTE] It would do nothing at all to enhance gameplay, because since taking the time to "make a seamless history" would probably take the same amount of time (or even more because there will be plenty of useless crap to fill in to appease people who want everything to be realistic) as a regular mod. And think about file sizes. How many people are going to play every year or month from 1975 to today? That's 30+ years worth of data, spanning thousands of wrestlers and hundreds of other things. To me, that's not convenient. It's a waste of space.

[Jouzy]

The databse size and load times WOULD be quite huge and, as Akki said, a waste of space.

[praguepride]

Not to mention the horrendous amount of recoding that would happen. If you really get deep into it, you will see that everything already builds off of everything else, weight class affects max stats destiny stats, age already takes a play etc. etc. But you want to completely change all of that to do a sliding system that can take a worker and simulate his stats at any given point of time duriing his career. Heck, if you can figure out that code you're already halfway towards designing an entirely new game. Plus not matter what it won't be accurate. ANd so people will complain that it's not accurate that it drop the Rock down too low at this year or whatnot. This game is not designed very well for going backwards. It can simulate the future (one daay at a time but going backwards would take justas much code as going forwards. So you're asking Adam to write a new game just so you don't have to use the editor to make your own '83 mod?

[cyberkitten01]

[QUOTE=JD61572;397085]Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what my intention was here. Let me give you an example. You would have the accurate rosters for what was going on in January of 90 and based on what a person's age, debut date, and then whatever kind of stat calculations need to be thrown in there (which could easily include the destiny stat) that would make up the skills of each wrestler.[/QUOTE] Thanks for clarifying, this sounds much better :)