Another great act of parenting

[Guest Ransik]

From gerweck [quote]East St. Louis, IL (KMOV) - East St. Louis police are investigating the suspicious death of a two year old boy. His 4-year-old brother is suspected of killing him, and his mother tells News 4 that he was pretending he was a professional wrestler. Jacqueline Davis says she came out of the shower and found her two-year-old son Jacquion unresponsive on his bedroom floor. She says her four-year-old son told her and police that he was pretending to be WWE professional wrestler who he watches dominate opponents on the Friday night show. The 4-year-old allegedly choked his brother with part of a curtain. Rescuers flew Jacquion by helicopter to Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital where doctors treated him in intensive care for four days until he died Tuesday. Sources familiar with the case tell News 4 that autopsy results could take two weeks and that a police investigation is pending. The victim's mother says she's convinced exposure to professional wrestling played a part in the tragic murder. [url]http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/whas11_topstory_080403_boy.29d632b4.html[/url][/quote] What parent would allow kids that age to even watch wrestling? More aside from that, why is her horrible parenting skills someone else's fault? I'm so sick and tired of parents who blame their own lack of parenting skills on other people. Sounds like another tragic case of the "TV is the babysitter."

[the.danger.zone]

I highly agree. I realize that single mothers have to shower too but you cant leave 2 kids with the combined age of 6 alone unsupervised. And again at that age the kids weren't flipping through the TV and decided to watch wrestling. Mom or dad liked it and watched it and ALLOWED their children to watch it. This is not Vince McMahon's fault in any way shape or form. There are TV ratings for a reason.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Honestly, I don't see any evidence in that story of bad parenting really... It didn't say anything about the kids being neglected, she was just in the shower! The only issue is that the kid probably was too stupid (not "too young"... 4 year olds can figure out "don't choke your brother to death") to know better. I can see why allowing a kid to watch the WWE is a poor decision at that age, but I wouldn't say it's "bad parenting". Maybe, if it was so bad to the point the kid was never told "Murder is bad". I don't know... If only common sense was instilled within people through education instead of just teaching "what you need to know" in order to pass the awfully easy and pointless standardized tests in this country from preschool on...

[the.danger.zone]

[QUOTE=mjdgoldeneye;399039]I don't know... If only common sense was instilled within people through education instead of just teaching "what you need to know" in order to pass the awfully easy and pointless standardized tests in this country from preschool on...[/QUOTE] At age four the people who should havw been "insilling" these things are the parents. So I dont see how you can blame the education system and not the parents of a child that age.

[Guest Ransik]

Allowing children to watch a program aimed at adults with excess violence is bad parenting skills... doesn't matter what way you look at it. It has nothing to do with her needing a shower. She saw no problem with two children not even in school to watch WWE programming, its just horrible parenting. Two of my friends have young children, both the same age. One of them only allowed his daughter to watch educational programming and never allowed her to watch wrestling on TV, and the only time she was allowed to watch HIS matches in the ring is if it was a wrestling match and not a violent one, and he wouldn't let her watch them until he heard from her what he wanted to hear; "I know you guys are just playing and I won't do any of those moves to anyone else." She's the smartest kid I've ever seen. Another friend has a boy the same age... he never had his kid watch any educational programming aimed at kids and raised him on WWE, all day long WWE. The kid is so far behind in his development it scares people. He's 6 and you would think he was 2 by his behavior. He has no concept of right and wrong when it comes to wrestling.

[the.danger.zone]

Personally I think kids should be encouraged to read more. Forget educational programming. It has its place and it can be useful but I think reading is the best thing you can get a kid to like.

[WrestleManiac]

This is an really interesting thread... I think it's harsh for mjdgoldenye to say the four year old was stupid... he was four years old and four year olds don't understand right from wrong fully... they don't know when too far is too far... they don't know when to stop. How is a kid supposed to know that choking someone can kill them unless they learn it - from their parents hopefully, but in this case the kid learned the hard way and you know he will never forget, or forgive himself for this. I agree with the opinion that the parent should have been more vigilant. She could have had the shower when the kids were in bed! That would be common sense... but common sense flies over some peoples heads. As a parent myself I (to a four year old no less) I allow my son to watch wrestling that is on in the day time. It has been edited to be suitable for children... I don't know what it's like in America, but in the UK we have a thing called "the watershed". Basically the watershed means mature content cannot be shown on TV until after 9pm. I would never allow my son to watch WWE, or TNA after the watershed. He actually doesn't like WWE or TNA but the old World of Sport repeats on Fight Network... and that's soft by today's standards. A related question: Would ASW be suitable for a family audience? My brother in law is thinking of taking his son to a show and I want to know if it's family orientated so I can tag along with my son?

[WrestleManiac]

[QUOTE=the.danger.zone;399048]Personally I think kids should be encouraged to read more. Forget educational programming. It has its place and it can be useful but I think reading is the best thing you can get a kid to like.[/QUOTE] I agree. My son loves Cat In The Hat. I read it to him every night. He also plays guitar, drums, and he sings. He's going to be a one man band/wrestler/literary genius! Here's hoping.

[the.danger.zone]

[QUOTE=WrestleManiac;399052]I don't know what it's like in America, but in the UK we have a thing called "the watershed". Basically the watershed means mature content cannot be shown on TV until after 9pm.[/QUOTE] I think this would be a great idea. You can find mature programming 24/7 in the USA. I dont know how familiar you are to shows like family guy and south park and things like that but if you know how to channel flip you can watch those shows all day long. I just dont think its a good idea. My roomate has a 3 year old kid and I turn that kind of **** off immedietly. My other roomate doest get it and will watch all kinds of **** with the little one in the room. Just seems wrong. I like this watershed thing.

[W3LSHY]

[QUOTE=WrestleManiac;399052] A related question: Would ASW be suitable for a family audience? My brother in law is thinking of taking his son to a show and I want to know if it's family orientated so I can tag along with my son?[/QUOTE] Yeah it is, just old school technica wrestlers really. Its pretty much aimed at kids since they run most of their shows at butlins ;)

[sheepy]

[QUOTE]-- The Paul Burchill & "sister" Katie Lea incest angle may be getting dropped due to WWE's new initiative to specifically target 6-10 year olds. The duo haven't done a segment together on Raw since the 2/25 show. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]- The Miami Herald has a new article up concerning the launch of WWE's new kids magazine. The magazine is geared towards giving kids information about fitness, nutrition, and geography, along with other esteem-building features.[/QUOTE] They've only got themselves to blame. I think the WWE should well be brought to trial over their actions.

[Pampero Firpo]

Coincidentally, I'm the parent of a two year old and a four year old so I'm quite familiar with the age groups. My quick thoughts: 1. Taking a shower when you're alone with your kids is not a wise decision. I wouldn't call it neglectful or bad parenting, but you are risking some problems. You'd be much better off waiting until at least one of them (preferably both) is asleep. 2. A four year old should know that it's not right to choke someone. That said, four year olds don't have great self-control and sometimes do things they shouldn't. Hence, it's best not to leave them unsupervised while you shower. 3. Letting a four year old watch any sort of real or pretend violence is asinine and bad parenting. Anyone who thinks WWE is appropriate for a four year old is an idiot. In my opinion, this is the main problem here. 4. This is mostly just a tragic accident. You can't blame the four year old -- even if he should know better he's too young to hold accountable. You certainly can't blame the WWE or professional wrestling in general. The biggest culprits are the parents -- primarily for exposing him to inappropriate material and also for leaving him unattended.

[GDE71]

[QUOTE=the.danger.zone;399062]I think this would be a great idea. You can find mature programming 24/7 in the USA. I dont know how familiar you are to shows like family guy and south park and things like that but if you know how to channel flip you can watch those shows all day long. I just dont think its a good idea. My roomate has a 3 year old kid and I turn that kind of **** off immedietly. My other roomate doest get it and will watch all kinds of **** with the little one in the room. Just seems wrong. I like this watershed thing.[/QUOTE] All something like watershed does is make it where ADULTS can't be ADULTS. If you have or are around children, then YOU change the channel and don't let the children have their way. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. As an adult, I want to be able to watch what I want to watch whenever I feel like it. People who don't parent should be held responsible for any ill that happens. I shouldn't have my television impacted due to a lack of good parenting.

[the.danger.zone]

[QUOTE=sheepy;399075]They've only got themselves to blame. I think the WWE should well be brought to trial over their actions.[/QUOTE] No no no no no! You know why the WWE has a childrens magazine??? Because parents allow their children to watch it. Theres a large fanbase of children. And it doesnt sound like what would be in that magazine was going to be too aweful bad. Nutirition exercies geography...how could they. :rolleyes: Would be completely ridiculous to blame the WWE.

[the.danger.zone]

[QUOTE=Pampero Firpo;399081]Coincidentally, I'm the parent of a two year old and a four year old so I'm quite familiar with the age groups. My quick thoughts: 1. Taking a shower when you're alone with your kids is not a wise decision. I wouldn't call it neglectful or bad parenting, but you are risking some problems. You'd be much better off waiting until at least one of them (preferably both) is asleep. 2. A four year old should know that it's not right to choke someone. That said, four year olds don't have great self-control and sometimes do things they shouldn't. Hence, it's best not to leave them unsupervised while you shower. 3. Letting a four year old watch any sort of real or pretend violence is asinine and bad parenting. Anyone who thinks WWE is appropriate for a four year old is an idiot. In my opinion, this is the main problem here. 4. This is mostly just a tragic accident. You can't blame the four year old -- even if he should know better he's too young to hold accountable. You certainly can't blame the WWE or professional wrestling in general. The biggest culprits are the parents -- primarily for exposing him to inappropriate material and also for leaving him unattended.[/QUOTE] Amen

[the.danger.zone]

[QUOTE=GDE71;399084]All something like watershed does is make it where ADULTS can't be ADULTS. If you have or are around children, then YOU change the channel and don't let the children have their way. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. As an adult, I want to be able to watch what I want to watch whenever I feel like it. People who don't parent should be held responsible for any ill that happens. I shouldn't have my television impacted due to a lack of good parenting.[/QUOTE] This is true as well.

[sheepy]

[QUOTE=Pampero Firpo;399081] 4. This is mostly just a tragic accident. You can't blame the four year old -- even if he should know better he's too young to hold accountable. You certainly can't blame the WWE or professional wrestling in general. The biggest culprits are the parents -- primarily for exposing him to inappropriate material and also for leaving him unattended.[/QUOTE] I think you can blame the WWE. Those two quotes I just found show that they're targeting younger and younger kids. This is not a product which should be aimed at kids.

[GDE71]

[QUOTE=sheepy;399090]I think you can blame the WWE. Those two quotes I just found show that they're targeting younger and younger kids. This is not a product which should be aimed at kids.[/QUOTE] All it takes is a parent being a good parent and saying NO to their children. When did the children get to decide what they watch and what they wear and what they listen to???

[sheepy]

[QUOTE=the.danger.zone;399086]No no no no no! You know why the WWE has a childrens magazine??? Because parents allow their children to watch it. Theres a large fanbase of children. And it doesnt sound like what would be in that magazine was going to be too aweful bad. Nutirition exercies geography...how could they. :rolleyes: Would be completely ridiculous to blame the WWE.[/QUOTE] You're right, the magazine doesn't sound too bad does it except for the fact its designed to get young kids hooked on the WWE so the parents will let them watch the shows. Parents will see all these things about nutrition and geography and go hey, its an educational magazine so we might as well let them read it. And hey, because we're letting them read this magazine why not take them to a show so they can see the heroes which are plastered across the pages in real life. Its dirty tactics on the WWE's behalf I'm afraid. Even with a rudementary understanding of law (I've studied several areas of law during my degree programme which I know doesn't make me an expert but I'd hope I understand the basics) I can see the WWE having a case to answer here. Yes the parent's will have contributed by allowing their children to watch but it could easily be argued that the WWE encouraged the parents to allow their children to watch the show.

[WrestleManiac]

[QUOTE=GDE71;399084]All something like watershed does is make it where ADULTS can't be ADULTS. If you have or are around children, then YOU change the channel and don't let the children have their way. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. As an adult, I want to be able to watch what I want to watch whenever I feel like it. People who don't parent should be held responsible for any ill that happens. I shouldn't have my television impacted due to a lack of good parenting.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying let children have their way... as far as my son goes I'm very much a no man. That doesn't mean I'm going to dictate what is being watch on the "family" TV. I limit what my son watches to an hour or two a day depending on good behaviour. As a responsible parent it is my job to teach him the rights and wrongs, so instead of letting the TV babysit my son I watch it with him and emphasise the points being made on the box. The watershed is useful because it tells me that after 9pm there may be stuff on TV that is objectionable for a child to watch. My son goes to bed at 8 and from then on the TV is mine and my wife's. I think I am grown up enough to not have to fight over the TV with a 4 year old. As for WWE targeting violence to kids... Wow! Big Crime! Let's just say He-Man, Thundercats, Transformers, Tom & Jerry, Power Rangers, all got there first...

[Guest Ransik]

While I disagree with the WWE Kids thing, and think it's the single most ridiculous idea they ever had since they've been saying for years they don't target kids for their programming... It says "Ages 6-10" and will have zero violence in the magazine. Still.... don't see how the WWE should be brought to trial over the bad parenting over a 4 year old. In all legality, that's WHY they have ratings systems now. If the rating is TV 14... and you allow a child less 1/3 of that age to watch the programming, it's no one's fault but your own for doing it. I grew up in the age before TV ratings, in the days of shows like He-Man, Transformers, Power Rangers and Thundercats, Ninja Turtles and the whole 9 nine yards and I knew at that age NOT to use violence on my friends because [b]my parents[/b] taught me never to do it.

[alden]

This is something me and my wife talk about alot. My son is seven years old. He has been to maybe 10 of my matches *that i know in advance are either going to be quick squash matches or very safe workers where i know i am not going to bleed or get hurt*. I think it is important for him to know what i do in the ring and that i am safe. My wife on the other hands thinks he is way to young and it is going to scare him *He says he is not upset when i get hurt but he did cry very loud one time.* I don't let him watch wrestling on tv. I don't care what company it is, it is just not going to happen. I have never told it it is fake but i have "gone over it" alot of times with the people so it is safe. I knew a guy who let his kid *four years old* watch czw with him. that is insane in my book, you can't let a child of any age watch something that bad. The shower thing is a big no no in my book. You do all your "personal" stuff at night when the kid is in bed. there is no way i am going to let a four year old take care of a two year old even for a few seconds. The whole question when did kids get to decide what to do all the time has never been a issue in my house. Our kid knows who is in charge, there is no question about it and that might be one of the problems. I hate to say it but i do some alot of kids running over there parents at times. When i was a kid that never would have happend. I don't agree with spankings but my dad sure did ;) .

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

I agree completely with Ransik and GDE71. Furthermore . . . We need a license to drive . . . I think people should be [I]required[/I] to get a license to have a kid, because nothing screws things up more than a stupid parent. I'd also say a license should be needed to go into a kitchen, but that's because my brothers are retarded in there and it just drives me nuts, ha! Still, a parenting license should be mandatory. Raising a child is a much bigger responsibility than driving, after all.

[GDE71]

It only took ONE spanking for me to get the point. After that all Dad had to say was "Do you want me to get the belt?"

[Guest Ransik]

People should need licenses for more than just parenting Lindsay, ha. I'm a firm believer people should need a license and codes to have Internet access as well. The mother loses any and all credibility the second she says "I left my 4 and 2 year old alone with no supervision." But this will go to court... tons of tax payer's money will be wasted. WWE executives will waste time and legal money... and the case will be thrown out in 2-3 years because the mother will be shown to be an even more terrible parent than we first thought. Every death like this that is blamed on wrestling ends the same way. Either the kid is mentally incompetant (sp?) due to bad parenting or due to mental illness... and the parent's horrid choices lead to a death. In my world... there wouldn't even be a trial. That woman would lose the 4 year old and be sentenced to 10 years for child neglect.