industy tied to promotions

[takertitan]

Something i have come across in the current game i am playing. I was thinking about tieing the industry rating to the companies in that country. IE say i am turning in A+ shows every week, i might develope a cult following that spreads across the US. Some are going to say "you might be putting on the greatest matches in the world, but if no one cares, no one cares." That is a true point, but it might spark some interest again. Maybe if a cult or higher level promotion starts to really put on some amazing cards the industy can in turn begin to improve?

[crayon]

Hmm, I can't ever see that really being the case in reality maybe. Good product ties into it of course, but there's so much that goes into and affects Joe Average's interest in anything, that it would seem a little unbelievable. Unless you're able to put on matches that are so amazing they can effectively put other fads out of business, and pull people back to wrestling. If you can, let me know your secret :P

[lovestruck420]

[QUOTE=crayon;406708]Hmm, I can't ever see that really being the case in reality maybe. Good product ties into it of course, but there's so much that goes into and affects Joe Average's interest in anything, that it would seem a little unbelievable. Unless you're able to put on matches that are so amazing they can effectively put other fads out of business, and pull people back to wrestling. If you can, let me know your secret :P[/QUOTE] Isn't that effectively what wcw did with the NWO did in the mid 90's? Or for that matter the effective usage of Hulk Hogan for the WWF in the early 80's? Many people say that the business is cyclical, which it is in alot of ways, but the business can also be explosive inside of one company and absolutely horrible for another. A good example for this is the original ECW. Territorial wrestling was by and large dead by the late 80's, non existant in the early 90's. Yet by putting on spectacular matches and giving fans exactly what they wanted in there region. They exploded and had very high turnout in a time that the term wrestling fan was a derogatory term.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=lovestruck420;406719] Many people say that the business is cyclical, which it is in alot of ways, but the business can also be explosive inside of one company and absolutely horrible for another. A good example for this is the original ECW. Territorial wrestling was by and large dead by the late 80's, non existant in the early 90's. Yet by putting on spectacular matches and giving fans exactly what they wanted in there region. They exploded and had very high turnout in a time that the term wrestling fan was a derogatory term.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but that's their popularity rising, rather than them shifting the industry.

[Lt. Lucrativo]

I made a suggestion like this a while ago, and Adam responded that it might be more realistic to connect the state of the wrestling industry to the presence of an iconic figure like a Hogan or an Austin. [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27584[/url] In any case, I like the idea of having something in the game world be able to affect the industry in some way, whether it be the presence of epic matches or epic characters. Maybe it's just me being a control freak, but I don't like the idea that nothing I do as a player can ever change the complete randomness of the industry in the game. I think building in some ability to affect the industry could be a fun and interesting game feature regardless of whether it's a perfect reflection of reality.

[djlightning]

Still, you can't deny that the casual fan just wants to be entertained. If you do a good job of entertaining them, they will keep watching, if you don't entertain them they will look elsewhere. So I would say that promotions shows should have an impact on the industry, but it shouldn't be just your promotion, it should be all of them, or atleast all the big ones. If TNA is putting on great shows and WWE is stinking up the joint. There is a positive effect, and a negative effect happening at the same time. Also I would say that for any 1 show the effect would be rather minor. So basically a good majority of the promotions are putting on great shows it would begin to push the industry upwards, or if the majority were putting on bad shows it would push the industry downwards. Perhaps keep the natural cycle, but have each promotions (or just major promotions) shows effect it by a small percentage, but say if during a down turn, shows cause it to go up by x% then the momentum turns, and it starts a natural upswing.

[ccgmacc69]

I kinda agree. Before the Attitude era, my interest in wrestling waned a bit, but the when the Attitude era came, it sorta put wrestling back into the mainstream's eyes and made national stars out of Ausin, The Rock, hell even Vince. And because my interest in wrestling became rekindled, I began watchin WCW more just to feed my jones, and the came the Monday night wars, etc. So I think it is possible for the usage of certain workers, or the changing of a brand could effect wrestling as a whole

[ChrisPMWBenoit]

I'm of the ilk that the wrestling business is not cyclical. Compare it to your favourite sports team...you have the die-hard fans that will go no matter what, even if you are at the bottom of the table and haven't won a game in years! However, it's only the die-hards that go during this time which results in poor attendance! Then you have the other fans, the casuals, who when that same team is top of the table and winning every game in sight will start turning up to watch resulting in the attendance being a lot higher! Point I'm trying to make is, if there is a buzz about the place (sports team, wrestling industry) then business will be up! The buzz however is not cyclical...something happens to create that buzz! Whether it be Hogan's rise in popularity (80s), Bret being screwed which led to the rise of Austin (Late 90s)! That buzz can be kept, by say, the sports team keeps winning championships so the casual fans will still go or the emergance of The Rock which kept the industry going strong after Austin got injured. However if that sports team starts losing then business will start declining. Likewise, dodgy shows by THE top promotion (Poor invasion storyline then the retirement of Austin & The Rock with no-one filling their place in ultra-popularity) will equal less interest in the industry. So, long story short, the industry should be down to the popularity of THE #1 promotion in that country (casuals get into the business by watching the most popular show), and popularity obviously goes up or down via quality of shows. Hope that all made sense it's 3.35am where I am and I'm getting tired hehe!

[GardnerFTW]

I would agree with Chris to a certain extent. And think that in someway the industry should be effected/affected (I never remember which is correct) by the promotions involved with a bias towards the state of the big ones. I would have to disagree with Chris' comparison to real life WWE. And its not necessarily even relevant to the discussion. The industry as a whole was on a decline well before any of the things you mention happened. The #2 and #3 promotions going out of business were obvious signs that the industry was in a serious decline well before any of the things you mentioned took place. And in order for them to go out of business had to mean things were well in decline even before that point. Although granted, both ECW and WCW were on the decline before going out of business. So I guess I would say that the decline of #2 and #3 affected the decline in the industry. The events you mentioned just further pushed it into decline. I think there is some cyclical component to interest in the industry, and I also think there is some correlation in that to the products being presented by various companies. How you would break that down into a way for it to work in the game, I have no idea, but it would be an interesting idea. And I don't think going strictly one way or the other would be the best solution. I've been drinking tonight (just a little), so hopefully that is coherent.

[ChrisPMWBenoit]

wcw and ecw went under due to, in large extent, very poor financial control and not because the industry was in a declining state! Wrestlemania X-Seven, the 1st PPV after WCW went out of business, actually broke records as the most buys in North American history (wrestling-wise) and I think it may still stand today. The industry was at it's peak, then WWE started messing angles up and not creating an ultra-star which is what brought the industry down being as they were the #1 promotion and werent living up to the standards set. However, I reckon if a big national company, like WCW for instance, goes out of business than that also should take a bit of a hit on the industry aswell.

[takertitan]

jump back into this i guess... I think the industy should be able to be effected by a some factors. Say 1 company is doing well, or 1 guy is just crazy over, or 2 company's are battling over top spot... that would create interest in most situations, and in turn the industy might go up. On the other hand, say for example in my game, the 2 US promotions(TCW and SWF) have both been putting on C+ shows and are now sitting in cult slowly working its way back up. 2 big companies collapsing would cause the industy to go to hell. Say WWE RAW suddenly got canned 2morrow, the industy(if it was not already half ****) would take a massive hit.

[GardnerFTW]

[QUOTE=ChrisPMWBenoit;408467]wcw and ecw went under due to, in large extent, very poor financial control and not because the industry was in a declining state! Wrestlemania X-Seven, the 1st PPV after WCW went out of business, actually broke records as the most buys in North American history (wrestling-wise) and I think it may still stand today. The industry was at it's peak, then WWE started messing angles up and not creating an ultra-star which is what brought the industry down being as they were the #1 promotion and werent living up to the standards set. However, I reckon if a big national company, like WCW for instance, goes out of business than that also should take a bit of a hit on the industry aswell.[/QUOTE] All that shows though is that the popularity of WWF at the time was extremely high, not that the industry as a whole was high. If the industry was as strong as it had been, then WCW potentially could have overcame its problems. ECW could have found a new TV deal. I am by no means saying the industry being declining is the only reason either of those companies went out of business. I'm solely saying that it was a factor. In an ideal environment however, I have to believe at least one of those companies could have survived. When you have 2 of the top 3 companies going out of business almost at the same time, there had to be some sort of decline in the industry. And at the same time, WWE was at the top of their game. However, I don't think one company's success means that the entire industry was in great shape. I do, however, think that that success should have some effect on the industry. There is more to the industry and environment than solely the results of companies. But I think they should play a role. And a strong argument could be made that the decisions of WCW and ECW played a role in a decline of the industry before they closed. Basically, the company's should play a role, in my opinion. However, they should not be the only factor. WWE doing great business doesn't necessarily mean that that the industry as a whole is great. And WWE doing poorly shouldn't necessarily mean that the industry is awful. But it should be a factor. Alot of what is being discussed ties into promotion popularity rather than the industry. But that does obviously play a role in the state of the industry as well, just not the sole factor. Hoepfully, that clears up the point I was trying to make. I'm not disagreeing with the idea or anything that has been said. Just saying that it should have an effect, but not be the only factor.

[Dolfanar]

I think that the "industry" rating should be an average or a kind of "index" as to how the promotions are doing. If there are 10 promotions in the US, and all 10 are increasing in popularity, then the industry is on the rise big time. If all are the same size, and 6 are going up, and 4 are going down then it is slightly on the rise. If they aren't the same size then it should be weighted towards the ones that are largest. Basically, imo, it should just be a kind of status report, not a deus ex machina factor that acts as an arbitrary outside bonus or penalty to our shows. Never understood the point of that at all.

[takertitan]

the WCW at that time was not really the most interesting thing at the time, don't forget. It was losing stream, storylines where weak, mostly just more stale nWo stuff. Also, time warner falling apart killed WCW more than anything. ECW at the time had lost its direction. Its main stars (Dudley, Tazz, Richards, Snow) had left for WWF. The solid workers of the past where gone (Benoit, Rey, Dean, Eddie, Saturn) and it was not nearly as creative or shocking anymore. ECW lost some of its edge. Hell even its starts at the time thought the company was stale by the first PPV. WWF had the star power. When Russo left, they had several top stars and the 3 most over workers (Rock, Austin, Foley). They left, so the company lost its top stars, invasion blew, so it dropped later. Dolfanar's idea is solid, throw in some random events (goverment cracks down on a company..., major star dies, major company dies).

[djlightning]

Also with WCW, let's not forget that the storylines were changing every two weeks (also Vince Russo basically sent Hogan home for good), being a die hard WCW fan that was even hard for me to take and follow, I could just imagine where the causual Joe was like wtf. We will never honestly know what would have happened had Viacom bought the WCW rather than WWE. Once Vince bought it he wanted purely to destroy it. I think there we're many WCW fans that just didn't like WWF at all, and so you had a large section of fans that had nothing to watch anymore. I think the wrestling industry should be more so judged by how many top promotions there are, and how well they are doing. Otherwise you could have 3 national level promotions all putting on great shows increasing in popularity and yet, industry is a F-?