Future of full worker pics?

[jesterx7769]

I know this won't be in 08 but I was wondering if there is at least consideration to have full worker pics like in WMMA. I understand there is ALOT more workers in TEW to make into full workers but I assume the serious gfx people have saved the workers when they made head shots, when I made a few head shots before I saved them but that was on my old computer. Also the gfx designers on the forums are doing a great job making full body renders so it doesn't seem like this would be far off for maybe an 09 release if it was the main focus. I just feel this was the best part of WMMA and that it would really elevate TEW to a mainstream game.

[Kobe1724]

This won't be added because it would require all 1600+ worker pics to be done. That was the answer I was given when I last asked. Plus there are enough people that prefer to current graphic style to make Adam decide it isn't warranted. However... I don't see why he couldn't make an alternative viewpoint. Just like there is a stat view and worker view why not have another viewpoint that allows for full body worker pictures? It wouldn't be the default but for people that wanted to make an effort and make that many new graphics (or perhaps their own mods) there could be another pictures folder for that graphics view.

[crayon]

I can't see it making it in, but I have to say that from what I've seen it does give WMMA a much more professional and, imo, nicer presentation. (headshots would still be more suited for some areas, but such as a worker vs worker screen.. full/half body is def the way to go). One thing I was thinking of though... if you split the workers pictures into two sections it could make things A LOT easier for everyone (except Adam who would have to code it ;)) eg. [headshot.jpg] then [rest of body seemlessly connect.jpg] Then you could mix and reuse body shots to heads (as the head is really the most defining trait). It would require guidelines being made though so bodies would align with heads (lighting restrictions too).. and if anyone wanted to make strange colored people or those with necks a different thickness to the bodies they'd have to make their own full render, but hey. It would require a lot of variations of bodies to be made, sure.. but once that's done it's just back to the heads.. and I dunno how the artists on this game operate but it's highly possible that they still have all the head geometry and textures saved and ready to go.

[Togg]

Not fussy on this idea and i think it would actually spoil my game play. Using workers with the default blue picture is ok when you dont have a face pictue of them, but not having a full body pic will be more commen so having a big blue charature on the screen would just look terrible and out of place. There would be pics for the cornellverse as i dont think adam would add this feature unless all chractures all had the full body pictures. But as for real world mods the amount of editing needed to create them, the amount of work trying to find a full body pic of a certain wrestler and then on to the amount of space this would take up on your hard drive. I dont see any plus in this other than for cornellverse. I like what adam has dont by increasing the size this year, 100x100 to 150x150. and the addition of promotion banners. this i think is enough of a personal touch for now. if your want a more personal touch with more graphics, why not have TV and PPV company logo's, TV show Logo's, PPV Logo's, Tag Team and Stable Logo's and even match Logo's. :D

[crayon]

oh lol, i completely forgot about real world mods... funny since that's what i was working on when i posted. (wasn't 07 150x150?)

[Togg]

yeah cornellverse would work great with larger worker pics, and your suggestion on making head match bodys and so on would be good but yet again its limited i feel. I Believe either a previous TEW (04-05) or WreSpi has the 150x150 but TEW 2007 didnt, as stated in adams diary entry number #20. which i just Re-Read and it allready has TV Network Pics, PPV Carrier Pics and TV Show Pics. (dont remember reading about TV Show Pics Before) BUT HUGE WOOP!!!:D

[sebsplex]

I can't see this ever happening for TEW unless Adam were to abandon the C-Verse and start a new universe from scratch so that the renders (like with WMMA) were made with headshot and bodyshots from the outset. After all the work he's put into that, I highly suspect he's unlikely to do so. Merging the original headshots with bodyshots really wouldn't work too well at all. As for saved versions of the C-Verse headshots, those renders have been made over the space of four years. Some of the original artists aren't even around anymore, let alone would they have all the originals saved. I know I haven't got all the renders of mine that have made it into the C-Verse saved. On the same score, there's no chance of everyone trying to remake the original renders. Several of the props used aren't available anymore for one and two, it simply requires too much time and work. I've recreated a few C-Verse originals (a Dan Stone Jr render just today strangely enough) and made fullbody shots for them, but I certainly wouldn't want to churn through too many of them. It's a nice idea though, just too problematic.

[Kobe1724]

Why not just make it an alternate view like the statistician view? There can be a separate graphics folder for people that want to use full body.

[D-Lyrium]

[QUOTE=sebsplex;410914]I can't see this ever happening for TEW unless Adam were to abandon the C-Verse and start a new universe from scratch so that the renders (like with WMMA) were made with headshot and bodyshots from the outset. After all the work he's put into that, I highly suspect he's unlikely to do so.[/QUOTE] I think it's worth remembering, as a lot of people are either new to the series or have forgotten over time, originally there was no such thing as a Cornellverse render. TEW'04 came with a blank generic worker pic, and that was it. The option to include pictures was mainly for the real world mods. Then along came KetsuekiKarasu and various others and started with the render packs. And now they've become part of the family. So yeah, just because it'd be a lot of work to make it active for the Cornellverse, doesn't necesarily mean it's not a possible addition to the game. Although at this point it's not for TEW'08, because it's due out in just over a month :p

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=D-Lyrium;411303]I think it's worth remembering, as a lot of people are either new to the series or have forgotten over time, originally there was no such thing as a Cornellverse render. TEW'04 came with a blank generic worker pic, and that was it. The option to include pictures was mainly for the real world mods. Then along came KetsuekiKarasu and various others and started with the render packs. And now they've become part of the family. So yeah, just because it'd be a lot of work to make it active for the Cornellverse, doesn't necesarily mean it's not a possible addition to the game. Although at this point it's not for TEW'08, because it's due out in just over a month :p[/QUOTE] /nod. I would love to have these options though, for both real world and C-Verse.

[Self]

I would love to see full worker pics, but I can see how much work it would be to do them, especially for the C-Verse, where most of us have pretty much fallen in love with the head-shots we now have.

[D16NJD16]

would be so much cooler to see the full wrestlers body pics. Especially the divas..

[Akki]

[QUOTE=D16NJD16;411320]Especially the divas..[/QUOTE] Sigh... :(

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Self;411317]I would love to see full worker pics, but I can see how much work it would be to do them, especially for the C-Verse, where most of us have pretty much fallen in love with the head-shots we now have.[/QUOTE] See... That's my thing though. Everyone keeps talking about how much work it would be, but I'm sure most the guys on the render thread would work a little at a time, and in a few year's all these things would be covered (For the most part). In the meantime, as in WMMA, we could have the same alternate as they do...They can choose to only have head shots... That would be ideal (in my opinion). It would take the stress off of finding full body shots, and renders for any modder, and at the same time, give the community more things to work on (which is something that since WMMA come out, seems to have been dipping a bit outside of smaller and personal things). One of the biggest attractions to me at these forums, were all the renders I would see being made daily when I first started checking this place out (Before I was a member). I would be one of those "Visitor's" you see on the bottom of the page. If not for them (and I'm talking mainly the full body ones), I wouldn't have even tried the C-Verse I don't think. It's the next logical step I would think. That all being said, I believe there was more to it then just "Where will we get the renders" from a post Adam made a while ago. I don't remember what it was, but I think it had something to do with trying to have the information, and be able to see a pic as well... Not enough space or something like that if I recall right. I'm perfectly OK with it being something left on the burner, till it's something that can be used effectively without taking away from other area's. So don't get me wrong... I back the developer on his decisions, as I know he's primarily looking at game play... Something that has a huge reason why you get hooked on the game in the first place.... It has depth, and graphics are only the desert, from a huge feast.

[sebsplex]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;411364]See... That's my thing though. Everyone keeps talking about how much work it would be, but I'm sure most the guys on the render thread would work a little at a time, and in a few year's all these things would be covered (For the most part). In the meantime, as in WMMA, we could have the same alternate as they do...They can choose to only have head shots... That would be ideal (in my opinion). It would take the stress off of finding full body shots, and renders for any modder, and at the same time, give the community more things to work on (which is something that since WMMA come out, seems to have been dipping a bit outside of smaller and personal things). [/QUOTE] The thing with Self's point is though Chris, is that the attachment people have to the current C-Verse pics are part of the problem. For instance, at the moment I think I'm the only person on the forums that really renders anything using Michael 2 (which is the figure a majority of the older C-Verse images are made from). So straightaway anyone who tries to recreate the older renders using a different figure is going to get vastly different results. It's probably not very easy to understand if you haven't really used DAZ Studio or Poser, but trust me, you're going to be extremely hard pushed to try and turn Michael 3 into a Michael 2 style render, Victoria 4 into a Victoria 2 or Freak into Michael anything, etc. Then you've got the issue of how extremely hard it can be to replicate someone else's render. Even if you use the same figure, everything is manipulated by dial combinations and morphs (which can be custom made), without getting into different textures, different lighting and what not. It's not like the CAW mode in Smackdown vs RAW where you can just cycle through premade faces and find which was used. It's not just a time issue. You're simply not going to be able to accurately recreate everything. Like I said, unless you've got one of the programs and actually tried to remap someone else's work from scratch, it's difficult to really appreciate how tough (not to mention unrewarding) it can be. Also with WMMA getting mentioned alongside this, I remember some of the more negative aspects of the WMMA renders, such as the criticism some of the newer renderers especially got. If you go back through some of those older topics, you'll find people who rendered images for that who simply gave up more definitely influenced by the flak some of the weaker renders received. Some people were even comparing the work people who've rendered for years had made against people who picked up the program two weeks ago, which was assinine beyond belief really. I can just see problems due to how enshrined the C-Verse images have become. For instance, it's all well and good saying people can recreate them, but what happens when say a fullbody render of Nemesis appears that barely resembles the original? Realistically you can mainly either have headshots and bodyshots for a lot of people that don't really resemble one another a great deal. Replace the old headshots with newer versions so they match up (I can see that being a total non-starter) or perhaps compromise with some sort of photoshop hybrid. The feature as a whole I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated, but only really with a fullsize image being something like a pop-up from a worker's bio so that the lack of them doesn't negatively effect the game (in the way Togg mentioned). I know my post may come off as primarily negative, but it's more aimed at the idea of the C-Verse getting reproduced in it's entirity by the community, which just isn't realistic.

[crayon]

I must be one of the only people who isn't into the majority of c-verse renders (not a knock to any of the people doing it of course (for non-cg artists working with poser/daz the body of work is impressive)), but with that said, the above is a pretty valid point about people's attachment to them. I'm sure people would get used to different interpretations of their favorite workers, but it could be a rough patch getting there in the first place.

[gazwefc83]

for real world mods it would be great

[jesterx7769]

I think even if there was just a place for them then it would slowly be incorporated. In WMMA you can still use a head shot on the screen where the worker is full body so there wouldn't be a blanks everywhere. Then people slowly start doing them like Sebseplex Dan Stone Jr. render you could slip it right in. Full body real world mods for WMMA hasn't worked completely yet but thats cuz i dont think as many work on it as in TEW. As I said, I know it would be hard but think even if you had the main people done by the time 09 came out. When I was reading the WMMA reviews on sites alot of them embraced it because of the full body pics, it really makes the game less of a "text based" game. Also I dont think they would be as hard because you dont have to worry about the body on alot of them, just throw on a t-shirt and jeans and boom a hardcore worker.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=sebsplex;411503]The thing with Self's point is though Chris,[B] is that the attachment people have to the current C-Verse pics are part of the problem. [/B]For instance, at the moment I think I'm the only person on the forums that really renders anything using Michael 2 (which is the figure a majority of the older C-Verse images are made from). So straightaway anyone who tries to recreate the older renders using a different figure is going to get vastly different results. It's probably not very easy to understand if you haven't really used DAZ Studio or Poser, but trust me, you're going to be extremely hard pushed to try and turn Michael 3 into a Michael 2 style render, Victoria 4 into a Victoria 2 or Freak into Michael anything, etc.[/QUOTE] I understand that point... Which is why I would hope a button/switch or whatever, would be used like in WMMA.... I'm not saying change the size of the worker "Face" picture, I just mean have the option to use full render's if you want to (Especially for real world mods, but of 'course with C-Verse character's as well, in time). I personally love your render's, and I am attached to several, so I do understand this, believe it or not (not just your's either, there are several ... how do you say, umm, "Original" type ones I love as well, lol). I also realise that quite a bit of the time (Maybe at least 25%) you personally make full render's of some of your characters. Fact, I would say at least 10% of all people that use Daz or Poser, actually make full render's for them as well. The joints (Arm/shoulder, etc.) in your render's are especially realistic, as opposed to other's. [QUOTE=sebsplex;411503]Then you've got the issue of how extremely hard it can be to replicate someone else's render. Even if you use the same figure, everything is manipulated by dial combinations and morphs (which can be custom made), without getting into different textures, different lighting and what not. It's not like the CAW mode in Smackdown vs RAW where you can just cycle through premade faces and find which was used. It's not just a time issue. You're simply not going to be able to accurately recreate everything. Like I said, unless you've got one of the programs and actually tried to remap someone else's work from scratch, it's difficult to really appreciate how tough (not to mention unrewarding) it can be.[/QUOTE] I know this... If you remember, I actually use Poser, and use Michael2 (as opposed to 3) mainly myself (Just like you). I'm thinking about moving to Michael 3, and especially the other versions of him... but bassically, I use the same models as you do. I even make my own textures... Some out of people's pictures (If they can give me a good one), Along with morph targets,etc. I know it's virtually impossible to make the "EXACT" same render. However, you, as well as other's have improved upon allot of the first ones... This is where my mind is with the whole thing... I'm not saying jump in and replace everyone. I'm saying, over time... They are going to be replaced anyways. Why not get this full render idea out there, and perhaps within' the next game or two, it will be incorporated, and as time goes by... Everything will eventually go into place. Personally, I would definately like not having to worry about a background if ".Gifs" are used. [QUOTE=sebsplex;411503]Also with WMMA getting mentioned alongside this, I remember some of the more negative aspects of the WMMA renders, such as the criticism some of the newer renderers especially got. If you go back through some of those older topics, you'll find people who rendered images for that who simply gave up more definitely influenced by the flak some of the weaker renders received. Some people were even comparing the work people who've rendered for years had made against people who picked up the program two weeks ago, which was assinine beyond belief really. I can just see problems due to how enshrined the C-Verse images have become. For instance, it's all well and good saying people can recreate them, but what happens when say a fullbody render of Nemesis appears that barely resembles the original?[/QUOTE] Always have that option of using the "Older" render's.... You don't even have to use the full body render's (for example) in WMMA... The main thing that has been said here all along, is that we definately would want to be able to have that option (Of being able to switch between full render's, or just using the original type face render's). I know, it's bad when people get all upset about a new persons' render, especially when they are mainly posting it to get some help... "Hey, Somebody help me, I can't get the texture to show up". "Yah bub, that looks horrible!"... I don't like that either. However, between yourself, Taker, Clarity, and several other veteran renderer's.. You guys ussually get anyone that is seriously wanting to help out, on the right track... Now... as for things not looking the same. It's totally a personal thing with that. I figure some people will obviously never want to use any different render's. However, I think there is a growing number of people that are not as attached (newer member's, etc.) and would love to see different render's for the same name... Possibly to replace the older one's. The render's on this forum, from the time I used to lurk as a visitor, till now... It's just unbelievable... A guy that has been doing this two weeks, is litterally doing better render's than what was being done just a few year's ago here. The reason is because the ease of the programs has increased, while the quality has been upgraded. So people are doing what used to take days, in just a couple of hours time. I'm not saying "Change it all over" all at once. I'm just saying, why not open up the option now, as it's eventually going to happen in the future anyways (unless the series decides to stop on the graphics area). [QUOTE=sebsplex;411503]Realistically you can mainly either have headshots and bodyshots for a lot of people that don't really resemble one another a great deal. Replace the old headshots with newer versions so they match up (I can see that being a total non-starter) or perhaps compromise with some sort of photoshop hybrid.[/QUOTE] I would just use ONLY the headshots (We want that option). The full render's are mainly for future "C-Verse", and real world..... as well as perhaps some new workers. Also, note that with WMMA (if I'm not mistaken), you can use just headshots for both parts, and don't have to fool around with full render's at all if you don't want to. If you do... You can use the full render's that you have as well, and not worry about the one's you don't have. [QUOTE=sebsplex;411503]The feature as a whole I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated, but only really with a fullsize image being something like a pop-up from a worker's bio so that the lack of them doesn't negatively effect the game (in the way Togg mentioned). I know my post may come off as primarily negative, but it's more aimed at the idea of the C-Verse getting reproduced in it's entirity by the community, which just isn't realistic.[/QUOTE] As the game evolves, I think it will have to... Each time the game comes out, it's newer, and new worker's are being brought in. Eventually the old one's would have to retire and such, so.... That's where I'm going with my thoughts there.

[Self]

I would love for 08 to mainly use headshots, but have a couple of places where it shows a full-body shot, if available. It would give renderers incentive to work of full-bodies, without totally eliminating their past work straight off the bat. I'd be interested to see just how many C-Verse guys are saved somewhere, and how many are lost to us, in their Daz/Poser form at least. (P.S. I render now. I'm not very good, but at least I understand the difficulties involved now, that I didn't quite get as an MSPaint-ist) Ooh. Speaking of that, I'd much rather a continued use of the 150x150 headshot, so all those Alt-Pics I did don't become obsolete. Selfish I know, but hey, check the name.

[sebsplex]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;411573] I know this... If you remember, I actually use Poser, and use Michael2 (as opposed to 3) mainly myself (Just like you). I'm thinking about moving to Michael 3, and especially the other versions of him... but bassically, I use the same models as you do. I even make my own textures... Some out of people's pictures (If they can give me a good one), Along with morph targets,etc. I know it's virtually impossible to make the "EXACT" same render. However, you, as well as other's have improved upon allot of the first ones... This is where my mind is with the whole thing... [/QUOTE] I was only addressing you really with the first couple of sentences in the post, the rest was just general as there are a lot of people unaware of how the programs work (some even that Poser/DAZ isn't specifically for making wrestlers) I have to say though, it slipped my mind that you had Poser or did anything with M2. I guess I'm one of the 'newer' older members (lol), so I might well has missed it before I even became active in the render thread. [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;411573] Personally, I would definately like not having to worry about a background if ".Gifs" are used. [/QUOTE] Personally speaking, the .gif format gave me a lot more grief due to issues converting them and then losing some elements of the postwork. [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;411573]The main thing that has been said here all along, is that we definately would want to be able to have that option (Of being able to switch between full render's, or just using the original type face render's). [/QUOTE] I know, I said that I'd like that too. ;) I don't disagree with the idea in general, it's just the concept of the C-Verse getting completely getting kitted out with fullbody renders that I can't see happening. Even if you start doing it from today onwards, the new worker file is pretty well kitted out (sure to be expanded upon further when TEW08 is released) and depending on how many of the newer workers are even still kicking about (let alone the older ones) hopefully it wouldn't be nearer 2018 by the time majority of the active game characters have bodyshots, though.

[VBigB]

[QUOTE]Personally speaking, the .gif format gave me a lot more grief due to issues converting them and then losing some elements of the postwork. [/QUOTE] Even though I didn't have any problems converting to the .gif format, I personally don't like. You just lose so much information in the conversion and it doesn't support parial transparency. If there was a way to get pngs or some other format that supports partial transparency and keeps more color information it would be better. [QUOTE]I don't disagree with the idea in general, it's just the concept of the C-Verse getting completely getting kitted out with fullbody renders that I can't see happening.[/QUOTE] I pretty much agree with this and about everything else you've said in this thread. I personally couldn't see myself going back and trying to rework the older characters. The few I have tried had mixed results.