How are mod makers interpreting the MENACE stat?

[castorius]

I was just wondering how mod makers were assigning the MENACE stat? As quoted in Adam's Developer's Journal: "#97: Menacing Wrestlers With the change from Looks to Sex Appeal, as described earlier, there has been a corresponding change to angles. A new rating category has been added called Menace - as you'd expect, [B]this is virtually a male-version of the Sex Appeal rating, in that it allows someone to be rated entirely on their presence[/B] (much in the same way that the "T-shirt firing" angles can be run to utilise pretty-but-untalented women). This allows some classic parts of wrestling - the menacing bodyguard standing in the background of an interview, the silent monster heel glaring at the camera as his manager talks - to be simulated properly." I noticed that a lot of mod makers favor heels and "mean" looking wrestlers as having a high MENACE rating. However, the impression I got of the meaning of the MENACE stat was that the wrestler looks "intimidating" and therefore has "presence". So even babyface wrestlers with an intimidating or impressive look may have a high MENACE stat. Some examples of this: Bill Goldberg - never played a Heel, but he definitely had "presence" and was very intimidating. He could easily play that big menacing bodyguard role if he had to. Batista would be another example, although at one point he did play a Heel. But he still looks menacing as a babyface. What I found is that some babyfaces with an impressive physique (or at the very least very large) will generally (but not necessarily) have a high MENACE rating. Obviously, there are some wrestlers who are huge but look like big teddy bears. Hillbilly Jim was a fairly large man, but he is by no means MENACING. Impressive physiques like Goldberg and Batista are MENACING, but Rick Rude's impressive physique is not (mainly because although he is well-defined, he is not huge). And of course I do realize that the MENACE stat is not purely based on physical appearance, there are other factors of a person that could make him look intimidating. Am I misinterpreting this stat?

[crayon]

Yeah, the way I work out someone's menace is thus: if I didn't know that person, and I saw them walking towards me in a dark allyway, based on their body or face on what scale between 1-100 would I be peeing myself? The interesting thing I think is workers who don't look phyically menacing in an everyday situation, but have the ability to pull off some downright scary/dangerous expressions when called upon.

[BurningHamster]

Haha Crayon, I've been using the "dark alley" test too in order to figure out someone's menace. Mixture of looks, size, physique and the general vibe they give off. For example, Colt Cabana is bigger and probably has a better physique in my estimation than Homicide, but I still find Homicide more menacing as that is how he presents himself while Colt presents himself as a fun-loving, goofy kind of character.

[HHUK]

I think it's a very hard stat to tell, I always thought it as how "heelish" they naturally look. Like the usual, Goldberg, Batista, Heel Undertaker, etc all look menacing. Usually the best faces have some sort of sex appeal. Then there's the big crossover, certain heel wrestlers have sex appeal while other face wrestlers have menace. (Examples would be Randy Orton and Face Undertaker) I believe the stats are more useful for gimmicks and certain angles.

[mjdgoldeneye]

Good in game examples are the "Monster Unleashed" angles. They are basically what WWE used to debut Brock Lesnar: A menacing wrestler comes out and destroyers the wrestlers in the ring. If you do that with someone like Batista, Umaga, Khali, etc. it'll work great (would have a high menace stat). If the same angle is used with Chavo Guerrero or The Blue Meanie, you'd get a horrible result...

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=mjdgoldeneye;443418]If the same angle is used with Chavo Guerrero or The Blue Meanie, you'd get a horrible result...[/QUOTE] Meanie is a beast. And I hear Chavo once ate a man.

[T-Jay]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;443433]And I hear Chavo once ate a man.[/QUOTE] I hope his wife doesn't find out........ :D

[Johnny Fenoli]

heres what i think, and tell me if you think its wrong.... real world examples of sex appeal, menace, and star quality. great khali - 10-95-50 misterio - 80-10-85 orton - 85-55-85 triple h - 70-75-90 batista - 80-90-80 jeff hardy - 90-20-90 matt hardy - 75-25-70 samoa joe - 50-75-80 kurt angle - 75-70-85 john cena - 95-85-95 umanga - 30-90-55 regal - 40-50-50 jbl - 40-70-60 santino - 65-50-85 abyss - 30-85-70 hogan - 60-80-99 flair - 60-45-90 mikie james - 90-10-50 melina - 90-10-40 beth phoenix - 85-30-30 kong - 20-60-25 maria - 95-5-20 just some names that popped in my head, and what id possibly rate them.

[castorius]

[QUOTE=Johnny Fenoli;443900]heres what i think, and tell me if you think its wrong.... real world examples of sex appeal, menace, and star quality. great khali - 10-95-50 misterio - 80-10-85 orton - 85-55-85 triple h - 70-75-90 batista - 80-90-80 jeff hardy - 90-20-90 matt hardy - 75-25-70 samoa joe - 50-75-80 kurt angle - 75-70-85 john cena - 95-85-95 umanga - 30-90-55 regal - 40-50-50 jbl - 40-70-60 santino - 65-50-85 abyss - 30-85-70 hogan - 60-80-99 flair - 60-45-90 mikie james - 90-10-50 melina - 90-10-40 beth phoenix - 85-30-30 kong - 20-60-25 maria - 95-5-20 just some names that popped in my head, and what id possibly rate them.[/QUOTE] For the most part, those look roughly around the right range. You might be able to argue that John Cena isn't quite that menacing even though he is has a fairly large and solid build, but that would be nitpicking. Back in the day, Hogan might've had a higher sex appeal rating, but that has definitely dropped off at his age. I'm wondering whether TEW 2008 can simulate the dramatic drop off in sex appeal of a wrestler with age. I think out of all the ratings; sex appeal should go through a drastic change (drop) once they reach 50+ years old.

[Johnny Fenoli]

[QUOTE=castorius;443924]For the most part, those look roughly around the right range. You might be able to argue that John Cena isn't quite that menacing even though he is has a fairly large and solid build, but that would be nitpicking. Back in the day, Hogan might've had a higher sex appeal rating, but that has definitely dropped off at his age. I'm wondering whether TEW 2008 can simulate the dramatic drop off in sex appeal of a wrestler with age. I think out of all the ratings; sex appeal should go through a drastic change (drop) once they reach 50+ years old.[/QUOTE] totally agree with you on all points. cena wouldnt be that high. the old guys have fallen off sex appeal wise, it also could effect their menace. hogan now isnt near as menacing as he was with the 50 inch pythons brotherrrr.

[crayon]

[QUOTE]abyss - 30-85-70 kong - 20-60-25[/QUOTE] I might personally reverse those sex appeal stats around though. Just how much sex appeal can you have wearing a smelly leather mask over your face and under a bunch of 80s metal hair? :P

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=castorius;443924]For the most part, those look roughly around the right range. You might be able to argue that John Cena isn't quite that menacing even though he is has a fairly large and solid build, but that would be nitpicking. Back in the day, Hogan might've had a higher sex appeal rating, but that has definitely dropped off at his age. I'm wondering whether TEW 2008 can simulate the dramatic drop off in sex appeal of a wrestler with age. I think out of all the ratings; sex appeal should go through a drastic change (drop) once they reach 50+ years old.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Johnny Fenoli;443938]totally agree with you on all points. cena wouldnt be that high. the old guys have fallen off sex appeal wise, it also could effect their menace. hogan now isnt near as menacing as he was with the 50 inch pythons brotherrrr.[/QUOTE] They would still be effective with people their age though.. So carefull how much you want to "Drop" things there. Like Ric Flair for example... My wife thinks he looks great at his age and part of his appeal is his personality. She is 20 year's younger then him, but you get my drift... Ric Flair was never a "Sexy" dynamo though (although his gimmick would have you believe so), so it's not really a great one to compare with, but my wife thinks he has gotten better looking over the years, rather then the opposite.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;444100]My wife thinks he looks great at his age and part of his appeal is his personality. She is 20 year's younger then him, but you get my drift...[/QUOTE] No offense chris as this is certainly not an insult, but your wife's taste isn't the typical or mainstream view. You're dyed in the wool WWE fans, sure. But Vince isn't all of a sudden going to start churning out 50ish year old men (who LOOK 50ish) because of their personalities. One person that I didn't see mentioned (for good reason, I guess) that illustrates that menace isn't necessarily all about size, is Chris Benoit. Intensity can feed into menace (and vice versa, probably).

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Remianen;444271]No offense chris as this is certainly not an insult, but your wife's taste isn't the typical or mainstream view. You're dyed in the wool WWE fans, sure. But Vince isn't all of a sudden going to start churning out 50ish year old men (who LOOK 50ish) because of their personalities.[/QUOTE] None taken. I'm just pointing out something I think should be a bit thought out first. I would hate to see someone turn 35 or 40, and drop 10 percent in looks or something... Even a .5% per year just, I don't know... I can use other names, John Travolta is 50+. I wouldn't say he's getting "Uglier" at a fast increase. Sean Connery who is 70+, I just don't think would fit that standard either. Not that he's not gone down a few steps in the looks department, but the way people are talking here, is like people will look 73 at 35, and that's all I'm trying to make sure doesn't happen here. Connery was definately over 30 before hitting his "better Looking" days. Christina Aguilar is 27, getting pretty close to 30. Think she is going to start sprouting age spots soon? Caral Alt is 47, still models. Pamela Anderson is 40. Natalie Portman is 27, Angelina Jolie is 33, Jamie Pressly 30... Carmen Electra, Kelly Carlson, Kelly Monaco, Alyssa Milano, Jennifer Connelly, Veronica Varekova, Kate Beckinsale, Angelina Jolie, Krista Allen, Charlize Theron = All over 30. Halle Berry, Salma Hayek, Elle Macpherson, Diane Lane, Kathy Ireland, Vanessa Williams, Elisabeth Shue, Markie Post, Heather Locklear, Ashley Judd, Shania Twain, Terri Hatcher, Demi Moore, Iman, Sarah Jessica Parker, Sheryl Crow, Gina Gershon, Cindy Margolis, Lisa Kudrow, Michelle Pfeiffer, Courtney Cox, Jami Gertz, Janet Jackson, Fran Drescher, Mira Sorvino.. all over 40 (and some quite a bit more over 40). Still make "Best Looking" categorie's in different magazines, like TV guide and the likes. All I'm saying is please dont' make it where someone turns 40, and all the sudden their looks hit the gutter. A 10 might become a 9, might be a 10 still, depending on how well they work on it. Men tend to age more gracefully. All in all... The way people are supposed to retire in this game, I would expect them to long retire before their looks were to go down because of age (and age alone). Sure, someone lives a rough life, the age will show it. Someone takes care of themselves, thier age will show it. Trish Stratus will turn 33 in december. I think she has potential to become even better looking. If I had to choose a generic age for it to hit, I would random it between 35 and 55. Perhaps have it max at 35, and run it for between a 5 to 10 year span, before it starts going down slowly, and then I would make it go faster after 55. You wouldn't believe the age of Clint Eastwood.

[D16NJD16]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;445249]Trish Stratus will turn 33 in december. I think she has potential to become even better looking. [/QUOTE] Do tell

[crayon]

I'll mostly agree with what chris says regarding aging and looks.. but with the mainstream being what it is I don't think the wrestling industry (well, the entertainment and t&a ones) is gonna start pushing MILFs over 20 year old silicon bimbos--unless it's a rad gimmick. Jack Avatar may like them with a few crows feet round the eyes, but the male demograph they're catering too may not be quite so appreciative. The best settler of this matter would be looking at the porn industry, because Sex Appeal stats is the only thing that matters to them. And given that there's only a handful of older stars with strong pulling power, I think you'd have to say that by and large sex appeal goes down in the eyes of the mainstream as they get older. And I've gotta say that while I love me a Mary Louise Parker or Lauren Graham, I don't know if it'd quite be right seeing them in a bra & panties match. So yeah, maybe a general slow decline of looks as they age would be realistic, by industry standards. You could always tie it to their destiny stuff, so some may escape it better than others, or possibly even improve in rare cases. Oh that's right, we're talking about menace.