New Unified Weight Classes Annouced

[tc66tc]

Below is the article covering the new changed to the Unified MMA rules. [CODE]MONTREAL -- A revised edition of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts were passed Thursday by the Association of Boxing Commissions via a majority vote at the ABC's annual conference. The amended document -- drafted by the ABC's MMA Chairman Dale Kliparchuk, New Jersey State Athletic Control Board Deputy Attorney Nick Lembo, ABC President Timothy Leuckenhoff and veteran referee "Big" John McCarthy -- primarily provided clarifications to the already existing Unified Rules instituted in April 2001 that serve as a regulatory beacon for the sport throughout North America. The motion to pass the revised document was introduced by Commissioner Gary Litchfield of Massachusetts, and Utah representative Bill Colbert seconded the motion. Forty regulatory bodies were in attendance for the annual event, which convened state and tribal athletic commissions from the United States and Canada. The California State Athletic Commission and the Nevada State Athletic Commission, both known for regulating a large share of MMA events, did not have representatives in attendance. Within the revised regulations, verbiage was added to further define what constitutes an illegal strike to the back of a competitor's head. The revised rules now distinguish the back of the head as the "crown of the head down the centerline of the skill into the spine, with a 1 inch variance to each side." This is commonly referred to as the "Mohawk" definition. This definition was of prime importance to commission members, who in recent months have diverged in their interpretation of the parameters of the illegal area with the existing text. In a June 23 article on Sherdog.com, the CSAC confirmed it had informally clarified the regulation with its officials based on medical data and recommendations to include the area from ear to ear, which is utilized in boxing. The NSAC had said it had informally adopted this definition to its jurisdiction as well. Proponents supporting the ear-to-ear definition spoke of the need to preserve fighter safety, particularly in dealing with the tender area along the spine. "Behind the ear should be illegal, period," said Arizona commissioner John Montano. "If you want to give one inch and the guy says, ‘I'm sorry. I missed it by an inch.' No, I'm not going to answer to somebody that missed it by an inch. It's very simple. Don't hit behind the ear and you won't miss it by an inch." McCarthy, who presented the revisions to ABC members with Kliparchuk and Lembo, told the group that the "Mohawk" definition had always been the intended interpretation of the rule since its 2001 inception and had never been the cause of serious injury during the sport's tenure. McCarthy urged that altering the definition to include the entire back area would alter the mechanics of the sport. McCarthy described the scenario in which one fighter can take another's back, but would no longer be able to punch his opponent from that position. "If you start doing things to try and make boxing fit within MMA, you start to allow the rules to control a position so the fighter can actually go to that position because they realize they can not be attacked there. The opponent who had dominance over me now doesn't have the ability to do much to me," said McCarthy. In addition, verbiage prohibiting elbow strikes in the downward "12-to-6 o'clock" motion was stricken, as the original rule's intention was to prohibit the technique to the restricted spinal cord area, not ban the actual movement itself. Elbow strikes of all kinds are now permissible, except to illegal areas. Smothering the mouth or nose of an opponent has been added to the Unified Rules' fouls list, prohibiting a fighter from using his hand to prevent his opponent's ability to breathe. According to the new verbiage, this does not include choke attempts where a fighter's mouth is covered by his opponent's arm. Fouls constituting unsportsmanlike conduct were consolidated together in the revised document, while the recovery period allowed to a fouled fighter was clarified in the new text. A fighter who has been struck with a low blow will have up to five minutes to recover. All other fouls will be assessed by a physician, who will make a determination within five minutes if the fighter is fit to continue. A proposed amendment allowing knees to the head of a downed opponent did not make it into the revised regulations for a vote. ABC President Leuckenhoff said the technique had been discussed in the weeks prior to the conference, but it was decided the move would be too radical for some legislatures still considering the sport at this time. Though it drew no talk or review at the conference, fourteen weight classes are now defined in the men's division under the revised Unified Rules, beginning at the 105-pound flyweight division and moving up in 10-pound increments to super heavyweight at 265 pounds and over. While some weight classes were unaffected by the reassignments, others were altered with the addition of new divisions above and below them. The welterweight division will now range from 165.1-175 pounds, while light heavyweight fighters will be specified between 205-225 pounds. Heavyweight entrants will be asked to weigh in between 225-265 pounds. The fourteen weight classes include: flyweight (up to 105 lbs), super flyweight (over 105.1 to 115 lbs), bantamweight (over 115.1 to 125 lbs), super bantamweight (over 125.1 to 135 lbs), featherweight (over 135.1 to 145 lbs), lightweight (over 145.1 to 155 lbs), super lightweight (over 155.1 to 165 lbs), welterweight (over 165.1 to 175 lbs), super welterweight (over 175.1 to 185 lbs), middleweight (over 185.1 to 195 lbs), super middleweight (over 195.1 to 205 lbs), light heavyweight (over 205.1 to 225 lbs), heavyweight (over 225.1 to 265 lbs), and super heavyweight (over 265.1 lbs). Ten female weight divisions were also defined ranging from flyweight (95 lbs and below) to super heavyweight (185.1 and above). Promotions will not be required to adopt the new weight divisions. However, if they do not, they will no longer be following the Unified Rules. In addition, ABC members greenlighted the passage of amateur MMA guidelines, which were also drafted by the pro regulations' authors with the addition of CSAC Executive Officer Armando Garcia. Amateur bouts will consist of three, three-minute rounds with 90-second rest periods. Commissions may require amateurs to wear additional protective equipment, including shin guards and instep protection pads, at their own discretion. The adoption of amateur regulations was viewed as an instrumental step by numerous ABC members. "I have sanctioning groups in my state. I don't regulate amateurs," said ABC president Leuckenhoff, who serves with Missouri's athletic commission. "Now I can go back to my legislature and say all the states in the U.S. and Canada accepted this document. We need to press this forward." New Jersey's Lembo, who has spearheaded the development of an amateur circuit in the Garden State for the last couple of years, concurred. "I'm just happy to see states getting involved in the amateur program," said Lembo. "I hear from so many fighters that say they wish they had the amateur program when they started." With the passage of revised rules, regulatory bodies will now have the opportunity to adopt them into their states' legislature. Though individual regulatory outlets have the authority to adjust their guidelines under their own governance and bylaws, the revised Unified Rules have been established as the minimum acceptable safety standards within the sport. In giving their stamp of approval to the updated regulations, ABC members hope all of the commissions will eventually abide by them. "Now it's up to the commissions to take them back and get them passed," said Lembo. "But as they did with the Unified Rules, it should easier for state commissions to pass these rules if they can say to their legislators that this was something that was passed by the majority of the members of the Association of Boxing Commissions and this is what the majority of other commissions allow. We should be in stead with them."[/CODE]

[syndicate]

[QUOTE]MONTREAL -- A revised edition of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts were passed Thursday by the Association of Boxing Commissions via a majority vote at the ABC's annual conference. The amended document -- drafted by the ABC's MMA Chairman Dale Kliparchuk, New Jersey State Athletic Control Board Deputy Attorney Nick Lembo, ABC President Timothy Leuckenhoff and veteran referee "Big" John McCarthy -- primarily provided clarifications to the already existing Unified Rules instituted in April 2001 that serve as a regulatory beacon for the sport throughout North America. The motion to pass the revised document was introduced by Commissioner Gary Litchfield of Massachusetts, and Utah representative Bill Colbert seconded the motion. Forty regulatory bodies were in attendance for the annual event, which convened state and tribal athletic commissions from the United States and Canada. The California State Athletic Commission and the Nevada State Athletic Commission, both known for regulating a large share of MMA events, did not have representatives in attendance. Within the revised regulations, verbiage was added to further define what constitutes an illegal strike to the back of a competitor's head. The revised rules now distinguish the back of the head as the "crown of the head down the centerline of the skill into the spine, with a 1 inch variance to each side." This is commonly referred to as the "Mohawk" definition. This definition was of prime importance to commission members, who in recent months have diverged in their interpretation of the parameters of the illegal area with the existing text. In a June 23 article on Sherdog.com, the CSAC confirmed it had informally clarified the regulation with its officials based on medical data and recommendations to include the area from ear to ear, which is utilized in boxing. The NSAC had said it had informally adopted this definition to its jurisdiction as well. Proponents supporting the ear-to-ear definition spoke of the need to preserve fighter safety, particularly in dealing with the tender area along the spine. "Behind the ear should be illegal, period," said Arizona commissioner John Montano. "If you want to give one inch and the guy says, ‘I'm sorry. I missed it by an inch.' No, I'm not going to answer to somebody that missed it by an inch. It's very simple. Don't hit behind the ear and you won't miss it by an inch." McCarthy, who presented the revisions to ABC members with Kliparchuk and Lembo, told the group that the "Mohawk" definition had always been the intended interpretation of the rule since its 2001 inception and had never been the cause of serious injury during the sport's tenure. McCarthy urged that altering the definition to include the entire back area would alter the mechanics of the sport. McCarthy described the scenario in which one fighter can take another's back, but would no longer be able to punch his opponent from that position. "If you start doing things to try and make boxing fit within MMA, you start to allow the rules to control a position so the fighter can actually go to that position because they realize they can not be attacked there. The opponent who had dominance over me now doesn't have the ability to do much to me," said McCarthy. In addition, verbiage prohibiting elbow strikes in the downward "12-to-6 o'clock" motion was stricken, as the original rule's intention was to prohibit the technique to the restricted spinal cord area, not ban the actual movement itself. Elbow strikes of all kinds are now permissible, except to illegal areas. Smothering the mouth or nose of an opponent has been added to the Unified Rules' fouls list, prohibiting a fighter from using his hand to prevent his opponent's ability to breathe. According to the new verbiage, this does not include choke attempts where a fighter's mouth is covered by his opponent's arm. Fouls constituting unsportsmanlike conduct were consolidated together in the revised document, while the recovery period allowed to a fouled fighter was clarified in the new text. A fighter who has been struck with a low blow will have up to five minutes to recover. All other fouls will be assessed by a physician, who will make a determination within five minutes if the fighter is fit to continue. A proposed amendment allowing knees to the head of a downed opponent did not make it into the revised regulations for a vote. ABC President Leuckenhoff said the technique had been discussed in the weeks prior to the conference, but it was decided the move would be too radical for some legislatures still considering the sport at this time. Though it drew no talk or review at the conference, fourteen weight classes are now defined in the men's division under the revised Unified Rules, beginning at the 105-pound flyweight division and moving up in 10-pound increments to super heavyweight at 265 pounds and over. While some weight classes were unaffected by the reassignments, others were altered with the addition of new divisions above and below them. The welterweight division will now range from 165.1-175 pounds, while light heavyweight fighters will be specified between 205-225 pounds. Heavyweight entrants will be asked to weigh in between 225-265 pounds. The fourteen weight classes include: flyweight (up to 105 lbs), super flyweight (over 105.1 to 115 lbs), bantamweight (over 115.1 to 125 lbs), super bantamweight (over 125.1 to 135 lbs), featherweight (over 135.1 to 145 lbs), lightweight (over 145.1 to 155 lbs), super lightweight (over 155.1 to 165 lbs), welterweight (over 165.1 to 175 lbs), super welterweight (over 175.1 to 185 lbs), middleweight (over 185.1 to 195 lbs), super middleweight (over 195.1 to 205 lbs), light heavyweight (over 205.1 to 225 lbs), heavyweight (over 225.1 to 265 lbs), and super heavyweight (over 265.1 lbs). Ten female weight divisions were also defined ranging from flyweight (95 lbs and below) to super heavyweight (185.1 and above). Promotions will not be required to adopt the new weight divisions. However, if they do not, they will no longer be following the Unified Rules. In addition, ABC members greenlighted the passage of amateur MMA guidelines, which were also drafted by the pro regulations' authors with the addition of CSAC Executive Officer Armando Garcia. Amateur bouts will consist of three, three-minute rounds with 90-second rest periods. Commissions may require amateurs to wear additional protective equipment, including shin guards and instep protection pads, at their own discretion. The adoption of amateur regulations was viewed as an instrumental step by numerous ABC members. "I have sanctioning groups in my state. I don't regulate amateurs," said ABC president Leuckenhoff, who serves with Missouri's athletic commission. "Now I can go back to my legislature and say all the states in the U.S. and Canada accepted this document. We need to press this forward." New Jersey's Lembo, who has spearheaded the development of an amateur circuit in the Garden State for the last couple of years, concurred. "I'm just happy to see states getting involved in the amateur program," said Lembo. "I hear from so many fighters that say they wish they had the amateur program when they started." With the passage of revised rules, regulatory bodies will now have the opportunity to adopt them into their states' legislature. Though individual regulatory outlets have the authority to adjust their guidelines under their own governance and bylaws, the revised Unified Rules have been established as the minimum acceptable safety standards within the sport. In giving their stamp of approval to the updated regulations, ABC members hope all of the commissions will eventually abide by them. "Now it's up to the commissions to take them back and get them passed," said Lembo. "But as they did with the Unified Rules, it should easier for state commissions to pass these rules if they can say to their legislators that this was something that was passed by the majority of the members of the Association of Boxing Commissions and this is what the majority of other commissions allow. We should be in stead with them."[/QUOTE] easier to read... anyways this is a good news for fighters who are more suited for these weightclasses

[Tag01]

It will be interesting to see how this affects MMA as we know it. It is basically inevitable that we see more weight classes emerge, but I wouldn't count on the UFC making the change immediately. I imagine the first major American promotion to embrace these changes would be EliteXC.

[Gabriel]

I'll tell you all the same thing Biggz told me... NSAC and CSAC didn't even bother attending. They're the two most important commissions in Mixed Martial Arts. It is highly unlikely that the UFC will EVER make the changes that the ABC have outlined here. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the weight classes we have right now. Randy Couture was a small Heavyweight and dominated guys 20-30 pounds heavier than he was. To add to that, if he found he was physically outmatched, he could have dropped to 205 pretty easily and been a large Light Heavyweight. It works all across the board. Having this obscene amount of different divisions is just plain retarded. How are new viewers supposed to keep track of and understand everything?

[ACCBiggz]

Kizer talked about this to MMAJunkie.com and said he liked the clarification on some rules, but doesn't understand the weight class changes at all. [QUOTE]"I don't get that one," Kizer said. "I'm surprised by it. I need to understand the reasoning behind the change. I didn't think there was a big concern over how the weight classes were structured. This change creates a significant weight differential in the division and leaves only a 40-pound gap at heavyweight."[/QUOTE] And it's still up to each state to adopt these unified rules. While some important people from other states were at the meeting, I don't see them adopting it until they know what the UFC/NSAC are doing as if they adopt the rules and the UFC can't come, they are out a TON of money. NSAC doesn't even meet again to discuss changes to the sport until next year. Edit: And let me say this... every Tom, Dick, and Harry promotion like EliteXC that says they use "Unified MMA Rules" and the ABC saying they are that is just a power play in my opinion. They only thing to watch for is what the UFC and the NSAC do, as they pretty much run things.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=Gabriel;455857]I'll tell you all the same thing Biggz told me... NSAC and CSAC didn't even bother attending. They're the two most important commissions in Mixed Martial Arts. It is highly unlikely that the UFC will EVER make the changes that the ABC have outlined here. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the weight classes we have right now. Randy Couture was a small Heavyweight and dominated guys 20-30 pounds heavier than he was. To add to that, if he found he was physically outmatched, he could have dropped to 205 pretty easily and been a large Light Heavyweight. It works all across the board. Having this obscene amount of different divisions is just plain retarded. How are new viewers supposed to keep track of and understand everything?[/QUOTE] here is the thing... mma is bond to have this many weight classes sooner or later and the ufc should do them because there are gaps in some of the weight classes 170 -185 or 185 -205... 15 and 20 pounds is a large gap between weight classes for guys to cut and not everybody cuts the same amount of weight for each of those weightclasses... even dana white has said this many times as for the randy thing... you say if he felt he was out matched at heavyweight he would of just dropped to 205... he did do this because he was looking poor at heavyweight and dropped down in weight had some victories, became a two time light heavyweight champion, then lost some and called it quits...then came out of retirement to fight sylvia at heavyweight [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455859]Kizer talked about this to MMAJunkie.com and said he liked the clarification on some rules, but doesn't understand the weight class changes at all. And it's still up to each state to adopt these unified rules. While some important people from other states were at the meeting, I don't see them adopting it until they know what the UFC/NSAC are doing as if they adopt the rules and the UFC can't come, they are out a TON of money. NSAC doesn't even meet again to discuss changes to the sport until next year. Edit: And let me say this... every Tom, Dick, and Harry promotion like EliteXC that says they use "Unified MMA Rules" and the ABC saying they are that is just a power play in my opinion. They only thing to watch for is what the UFC and the NSAC do, as they pretty much run things.[/QUOTE] nsac is bond to do this sooner or later...

[ACCBiggz]

NSAC is not [I]bond[/I] to do anything they don't want to do. They run the fight game. Furthermore, it's stupid to have the ABC determine what is good/fair/right for MMA. The structure is vastly different than boxing, and in terms of weight classes it should be up to the promotion what they want (much like it is now) as long as the appropriate commissions approve it.

[Gabriel]

4 extra divisions is too many. Some of the divisions are already thin enough as it is. Stretching them further would only make things worse and decrease the amount of potential match-ups available. A division for every 10 pounds is a little ridiculous. Part of the excitement is that you have guys who will be big in a division compared to the guys at the bare minimum. There is nothing wrong with the divisions the UFC has. Guys get dominated because they're too small for one, then they bulk up, or they cut the extra 2-3 pounds to make the lighter division. I'm not sure how you were arguing my point about Couture... he felt out of place at Heavyweight when he was there the first time, so he dropped and was very successful at Light Heavyweight. Then eventually he came back to fight at Heavyweight when he felt more comfortable there. You didn't really argue my point... you just kind of helped drive home that there's nothing wrong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=Gabriel;455872]4 extra divisions is too many. Some of the divisions are already thin enough as it is. Stretching them further would only make things worse and decrease the amount of potential match-ups available. A division for every 10 pounds is a little ridiculous. Part of the excitement is that you have guys who will be big in a division compared to the guys at the bare minimum.[/QUOTE] The other part to this is you already have people moving up and down to compete in multiple divisions. Now you are potentially letting one guy control and dominate three divisions in the hypothetical scenario. MMA is different than boxing in almost everyway. It's not a promoter/fighter based sport like boxing... it's an organizational sport. That's why allowing each promotion to determine weight divisions and rules, as long as they are approved by the Athletic Commissions, is the proper way to go imo. If EXC wants a 145 women's title, and 160 lightweight... and the UFC 155 lightweight... all is fine with me. But having a faux sanctioning body like the ABC think they run the sport and implement inane things is not the way to go, in my opinion.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455871]NSAC is not [I]bond[/I] to do anything they don't want to do. They run the fight game. Furthermore, it's stupid to have the ABC determine what is good/fair/right for MMA. The structure is vastly different than boxing, and in terms of weight classes it should be up to the promotion what they want (much like it is now) as long as the appropriate commissions approve it.[/QUOTE] [SIZE="7"]bound*[/SIZE] :rolleyes: mark my words with in ten years or so you can be sure that the gaps between 170 -185 and 185 - 205 will change because of the nsac... the nsac has so many boxing influences with judges and what not be sure that people have already voice their views on the gaps from refs to promoters to fighters... it will change sooner or later i completely disagree with the weight classes being up to the promotions because then promotions like elite xc continue to make favoritism towards fighters like gina carano and nick diaz (they can not even cut weight for those divisions that were made just for them) mixed martial arts will need to have a governing body that not only unifies rules and determines weight classes, but also #1 contenders for champions... this will also lead to having champions of each promotion fight other champions of other promotions the only thing i dislike about this is the fact that they made a 225 weight class (i personally find that just retarded) and the names of some of the divisions, but i wont get into why i have issues with that [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455877]The other part to this is you already have people moving up and down to compete in multiple divisions. Now you are potentially letting one guy control and dominate three divisions in the hypothetical scenario. MMA is different than boxing in almost everyway. It's not a promoter/fighter based sport like boxing... it's an organizational sport. That's why allowing each promotion to determine weight divisions and rules, as long as they are approved by the Athletic Commissions, is the proper way to go imo. If EXC wants a 145 women's title, and 160 lightweight... and the UFC 155 lightweight... all is fine with me. But having a faux sanctioning body like the ABC think they run the sport and implement inane things is not the way to go, in my opinion.[/QUOTE] and that needs to change, because it's not about promotions it's about fighters and abc is on the right path, but they should not be the ones having a say on this issue

[Gabriel]

If the success of MMA has taught us anything, it's that being like Boxing is NOT the way to go. I don't want 80 different recognized Heavyweight Championships. I don't want one guy holding five or six titles at a time, and never defending any of them. I don't want all the companies to be the same. WEC is exciting because they have Featherweights and Bantamweights. UFC doesn't. EliteXC is bringing in a Womens Championship, which no other major company has. World Victory Road allows stomps still. Strikeforce doesn't allow elbows OR knees to the head of downed opponents. If every company is under the same banner, the same set of rules and regulations, weight classes and everything else... then what's the point? They'll all be the same, and no one will have any success. That's just stupid.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=syndicate;455900][SIZE="7"]mark my words with in ten years or so you can be sure that the gaps between 170 -185 and 185 - 205 will change because of the nsac... the nsac has so many boxing influences with judges and what not be sure that people have already voice their views on the gaps from refs to promoters to fighters... it will change sooner or later[/QUOTE] The NSAC works with Dana White and the UFC in the majority of what to do for MMA. The boxing influences have little to do with the MMA side of things. Keith Kizer and the board in Nevada work extremely well with Dana and the Fertitta's in the manner of MMA. [QUOTE]i completely disagree with the weight classes being up to the promotions because then promotions like elite xc continue to make favoritism towards fighters like gina carano and nick diaz (they can not even cut weight for those divisions that were made just for them)[/QUOTE] That's not their fault, and Diaz close before his fight so he couldn't make weight. He's made 160 before, so the jury is still out on him doing it consistently. However, having it up to the promotions - [B]as long as it is approved by the AC[/B] - is fine with me. I think it works extremely well and has been proven so. [QUOTE]mixed martial arts will need to have a governing body that not only unifies rules and determines weight classes, but also #1 contenders for champions... this will also lead to having champions of each promotion fight other champions of other promotions[/QUOTE] Oh dear God no. I have no problems with governing bodies determining a standard set of rules... that is perfectly acceptable. However having one that sets up matches and contenders is an atrocious idea that will never work. Boxing somewhat tries this, but it basically breaks down promotions and leaves it to fighters and individual promoters which is absolutely horrible. In the landscape of how MMA is today, we get a LOT more meaningful match-ups thanks to how the UFC is ran. They are missing only a select handful of the top fighters, and I'll take that over a boxing system where we get MAYBE one to two important fights a year. This would cause a breakdown, as soon as someone debates the rankings they'll put out there own with their own belt. It's called what happened to boxing. And it's atrocious. Not only that, but when people talked about when UFC/PRIDE were going head-to-head about never getting to see the dream fights, now they do because the UFC has most of the talent. Those same people now want a #2 promotion to compete against the UFC... which I have no problem with other promotions, but at the same time the talent split that happens by this causes a lack of the fights we get to see that actually mean something. Have one top teir promotion is what is best for the fans, and for those complaining about fighter salaries, the UFC's system has been doing it right. Sure they reap a lot of profits, but they are also gradually increasing fighter wages. They aren't going to say, "Hey we made 200 million, let's give everyone a substantial raise" and then be broke in 4 years. Zuffa has had to pull themselves out of debt first, and continually gradually build fighter salaries. And most fighters don't complain because of unheard of backstage bonuses that Zuffa gives them. [QUOTE]and that needs to change, because it's not about promotions it's about fighters and abc is on the right path, but they should not be the ones having a say on this issue[/QUOTE] ABC is on the right path with rule clarification, but not trying to make this a boxing system and radically change things such as weight divisions when the current system has been shown to work, and work effectively. Thankfully the power still falls to individual athletic commissions, and thaknfully Zuffa and the NSAC work extremely well together to continue having this sport move forward in the right direction.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]The NSAC works with Dana White and the UFC in the majority of what to do for MMA. The boxing influences have little to do with the MMA side of things. Keith Kizer and the board in Nevada work extremely well with Dana and the Fertitta's in the manner of MMA.[/QUOTE] the people who run the nsac have picked plenty of judges from boxing events judge mma events.. they pick the judges and refs are you saying because dana, lorenzo and frank have a good relationship with the nsac that they will never change the weightclasses because they are buddies? i don;t understand what you are trying to say... even dana white has stated that those gaps i already brought up are very large and that in time they will be changed [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]That's not their fault, and Diaz close before his fight so he couldn't make weight. He's made 160 before, so the jury is still out on him doing it consistently. However, having it up to the promotions - [B]as long as it is approved by the AC[/B] - is fine with me. I think it works extremely well and has been proven so.[/QUOTE] it has not proven very well when you have people like carano missing weight 5 out of 6 times for a weight class that was taylor made for her we just had thiago silva not make weight when he fought matt hughes... it is a lot harder for these people to make weight because they cut so much of it i am not sure if this was at 175 if he would of made the weight, but i am sure it would of been a lot easier for him even matt hughes has said 175 would be his dream weight class if the ufc had one [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]Oh dear God no. I have no problems with governing bodies determining a standard set of rules... that is perfectly acceptable. However having one that sets up matches and contenders is an atrocious idea that will never work. Boxing somewhat tries this, but it basically breaks down promotions and leaves it to fighters and individual promoters which is absolutely horrible. In the landscape of how MMA is today, we get a LOT more meaningful match-ups thanks to how the UFC is ran. They are missing only a select handful of the top fighters, and I'll take that over a boxing system where we get MAYBE one to two important fights a year.[/QUOTE] doing that makes more money for the fighters by far and the ufc has the majority of the best fighters in the world with the lack of the heavyweight and lightweight weight classes that are pretty weak in the ufc the select handful of fighters that they are missing are some of the fighters people have been wanting to see fight... people want to see guys like yamamoto fight faber, but with the way it is run now that wont ever happen [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]This would cause a breakdown, as soon as someone debates the rankings they'll put out there own with their own belt. It's called what happened to boxing. And it's atrocious.[/QUOTE] no it would not... not if it is done right a example of it being done wrong is what wamma is doing with them crowning a champion... at first people thought "ok wamma is on the right path here with what they want to do", but then they decided to crown a world champ with out the ufc working with them and that makes it awful and thats why you need the ufc and every other major org that is sanctioned to agree on it with all the athletic commissions [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]Not only that, but when people talked about when UFC/PRIDE were going head-to-head about never getting to see the dream fights, now they do because the UFC has most of the talent. Those same people now want a #2 promotion to compete against the UFC... which I have no problem with other promotions, but at the same time the talent split that happens by this causes a lack of the fights we get to see that actually mean something.[/QUOTE] lol thats why we need a governing body that will set up champions to fight champions [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]Have one top teir promotion is what is best for the fans, and for those complaining about fighter salaries, the UFC's system has been doing it right. Sure they reap a lot of profits, but they are also gradually increasing fighter wages. They aren't going to say, "Hey we made 200 million, let's give everyone a substantial raise" and then be broke in 4 years. Zuffa has had to pull themselves out of debt first, and continually gradually build fighter salaries. And most fighters don't complain because of unheard of backstage bonuses that Zuffa gives them.[/QUOTE] i don't have a problem with fighter pay scales i think the only fighters that should complain about it are the bigger draws because if you look at the amount of boxers that are not big draws and look at the amount of money they make it's not that off from the mma fighters who are not big draws only guys that should complain about money are guys who put people in the seats and as for the unreported money that they give them i will never comment on it because it's never talked about in detail if you are in the ufc for your first fight and you get 2000 to fight 2000 win (and a chance to make 50,000 more or less) a fight you should not be worrying about how much money you make because plenty of boxers do not get chances like that [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455916]ABC is on the right path with rule clarification, but not trying to make this a boxing system and radically change things such as weight divisions when the current system has been shown to work, and work effectively. Thankfully the power still falls to individual athletic commissions, and thaknfully Zuffa and the NSAC work extremely well together to continue having this sport move forward in the right direction.[/QUOTE] problem with that is that zuffa only cares about the ufc and wec and i can not blame them they are making money, but they have done a lot for the sport in general, but not really on purpose mostly just for the ufc brand name no matter what zuffa has no final say on what the nsac will do and i am sure they will add more weight classes because it's a growing sport and if you ask dana he will tell you the same thing about them making changes... anyways i could go on and on, but i wont so i am done here

[Gabriel]

The Thiago Silva example... he's a very big Welterweight. He'd be fine at Middleweight and have to cut less weight to be there. Him not making weight doesn't show anything wrong with the weight classes. It shows that Silva is better suited for the Middleweight division.

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=syndicate;455930]the people who run the nsac have picked plenty of judges from boxing events judge mma events.. they pick the judges and refs are you saying because dana, lorenzo and frank have a good relationship with the nsac that they will never change the weightclasses because they are buddies? i don;t understand what you are trying to say... even dana white has stated that those gaps i already brought up are very large and that in time they will be changed[/QUOTE] Yes they pick judges/refs, but the judges/refs also have to be licensed for MMA before doing that. And the UFC can, and have in the past, requested certain refs for bigger match-ups and have never been denied. Don't know what your point is there. [QUOTE]it has not proven very well when you have people like carano missing weight 5 out of 6 times for a weight class that was taylor made for her we just had thiago silva not make weight when he fought matt hughes... it is a lot harder for these people to make weight because they cut so much of it i am not sure if this was at 175 if he would of made the weight, but i am sure it would of been a lot easier for him even matt hughes has said 175 would be his dream weight class if the ufc had one[/QUOTE] Carano missing that weight has nothing to do with the weight class or EliteXC, it has to do with her commitment to the sport and not being able to make it. Thiago Silva is a Light Heavyweight, you mean Thiago Alves. Alves is a large Welterweight who called the UFC the week before the fight to tell them he couldn't make weight due to an ankle injury. Both cases have absolutely nothing to do with weight classes. It has to do with fighters. Anderson Silva cuts to 185 from around the 210-215 range, GSP cuts to 170 from around 195. Some people can cut properly and effectively, some can't...that's why they choose their divisions on how it effects their body. Having more weight classes and making promotions use them under "unified" rules only allows for these fighters to cross divsions and hold multiple titles. [QUOTE]doing that makes more money for the fighters by far and the ufc has the majority of the best fighters in the world with the lack of the heavyweight and lightweight weight classes that are pretty weak in the ufc the select handful of fighters that they are missing are some of the fighters people have been wanting to see fight... people want to see guys like yamamoto fight faber, but with the way it is run now that wont ever happen[/QUOTE] I'd rather be missing a handful of fighters than have a distinct split of talent like we had in the past. And the only reason KID hasn't come over is because he gets paid enormous amounts of cash in Japan that no American company can match logistically. [QUOTE]no it would not... not if it is done right a example of it being done wrong is what wamma is doing with them crowning a champion... at first people thought "ok wamma is on the right path here with what they want to do", but then they decided to crown a world champ with out the ufc working with them and that makes it awful and thats why you need the ufc and every other major org that is sanctioned to agree on it with all the athletic commissions[/QUOTE] WAMMA was a joke to begin with. No one with a brain ever took that seriously. The UFC should not and most likely will not ever work with a body like WAMMA or another organization to co-promote an event. It makes absolutely no sense to do that. [QUOTE]lol thats why we need a governing body that will set up champions to fight champions[/QUOTE] It would not happen. The same thing would happen as it has been done in boxing. And that has been a proven failure. [QUOTE]i don't have a problem with fighter pay scales i think the only fighters that should complain about it are the bigger draws because if you look at the amount of boxers that are not big draws and look at the amount of money they make it's not that off from the mma fighters who are not big draws only guys that should complain about money are guys who put people in the seats and as for the unreported money that they give them i will never comment on it because it's never talked about in detail if you are in the ufc for your first fight and you get 2000 to fight 2000 win (and a chance to make 50,000 more or less) a fight you should not be worrying about how much money you make because plenty of boxers do not get chances like that[/QUOTE] Boxing is totally different in every way. They are fighter/promoter based and not organization based. That's why pay is different and to people who still try and compare the two are way off base. Especially with MMA still being incredibly young. Fighter pay is steadily increasing and as long as the lowest level fighters can make ends meat, it's good. [QUOTE]no matter what zuffa has no final say on what the nsac will do and i am sure they will add more weight classes because it's a growing sport and if you ask dana he will tell you the same thing about them making changes...[/QUOTE] Zuffa has no final say, but it's hardly a coincidence that Zuffa and the NSAC work hand in hand a lot. Will they add more weight classes, I'm sure we will see more weight classes in the future because we'll get a lot more fighters choosing MMA. However, my problem is trying to implement these new weight classes across the board changing already established and working ones such as the current UFC system. Much like Keith Kizer already expressed. This is why I believe letting organizations choosing their weight classes, approved by the AC, is the proper way to go. It remains fair to each fighter because they know the division they'll be fighting in prior to signing a contract. Trying to change a system that has been in place and has been working for years is a terrible idea.

[Gabriel]

I don't know why anyone in their right mind would actually want to see top names making millions of dollars per fight, while the undercard struggles to make enough to live on. That's the way Boxing is. It's retarded. Bigger name fighters should make more money than guys making a name for themselves, no doubt... but the difference in pay shouldn't be astronomical. Zuffa has instituted a payscale that reflects how important fighters are to the promotion, but is also fair to everyone and allows their contracted fighters the freedom of training full time because they make enough money to live on.

[syndicate]

the fighter pay is not way off when you compare boxing and mma it is only way off when you look at the big stars in boxing and big stars in mixed martial arts plenty of boxers make crap money just like mma fighters if you look at the pay outs for some of the big boxing event under cards you will know they look almost the same as the ufc's

[Gabriel]

Okay, but you're not understanding the argument. The main event shouldn't be 80-90% of the fighter payouts... which is what it's like in Boxing. That's ridiculous. The fighter payscale should look like a gradual increase from the least known fighter to the most well known. It shouldn't be a gradual increase until you get to a certain point, and then a vastly dramatic increase. It's unneccessary.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=Gabriel;455973]Okay, but you're not understanding the argument. The main event shouldn't be 80-90% of the fighter payouts... which is what it's like in Boxing. That's ridiculous. The fighter payscale should look like a gradual increase from the least known fighter to the most well known. It shouldn't be a gradual increase until you get to a certain point, and then a vastly dramatic increase. It's unneccessary.[/QUOTE] it's not that i don't understand what you said i understood it fine and i agree with you, but i am pointing out that the majority of the big time boxing events under card fighters get the same type of money as under card ufc fighters i point this out because of the misconceptions of how mma fighters get nothing compared to boxers and when you hear people bring this up the first thing they mention is how so and so made only 2000 dollars at some ufc event and how some boxer made 3 million it's just crazy to compare a guy like manny pacquiao with some guy who is in the ufc for the first time getting 2000 dollars in his first fight the whole argument about money with the ufc and who they give it to is silly because nobody knows the amount of money they really get

[tc66tc]

wow, I'm glad I posted this one. This is far and away some of the most spirited discussion I've seen on here. I think the new weight classes are not needed. Personally I do not like it, this makes it like boxing where there are to many weight classes and to many champions. Same as Biggz I dont think the UFC will adopt it. They are perfect for smaller shows. It gives up and coming fighters a better way to really get a grasp of fighting and will a little fairer competition. But I dont think it is for the major leagues. Fighters already jump classes with 15lb gaps, belts and champions are already somewhat ambiguous, with that many more (in major competition) it will on be worse.

[tc66tc]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;455859]Kizer talked about this to MMAJunkie.com and said he liked the clarification on some rules, but doesn't understand the weight class changes at all. And it's still up to each state to adopt these unified rules. While some important people from other states were at the meeting, I don't see them adopting it until they know what the UFC/NSAC are doing as if they adopt the rules and the UFC can't come, they are out a TON of money. NSAC doesn't even meet again to discuss changes to the sport until next year. Edit: And let me say this... every Tom, Dick, and Harry promotion like EliteXC that says they use "Unified MMA Rules" and the ABC saying they are that is just a power play in my opinion. They only thing to watch for is what the UFC and the NSAC do, as they pretty much run things.[/QUOTE] Also on top of what Biggz has said, the states (Nevada and Cali) can adopt the new rules to be uniform with the rest of the US, and UFC still keep there classes how they see fit by simply making the match at a "catch" weight. Or simply not sanction champions at the other weights. Edit: But on the otherside of it, im sure the UFC would love to be able to have a champion fight at each PPV and with 155, 165,175,185,195,205,225 and HW they would get a few more champions to be able to hype. The 155 and 205 divisions are just stacked with guys, breaking them off into other classes could be very good for marketing for the ufc. Still the 225 class just doesnt seem right. Overall it will be incredible interesting to see how all of this works out.

[Jennie Bomb]

Considering UFC's business model, I just don't see why they wouldn't adopt this new weight class system. It will allow them to put on more title fights, which will add a new layer of marketability to some fights, it'll make it far easier to protect marketable fighters by manipulating them through the weakest weight classes if there's a chance that they might be found out by a better fighter and it makes it easier to engineer anticipation for fights by keeping guys in different weight classes until the time is right. Plus, they could probably get away with running more shows if they have more divisions to promote. It just seems to make too much business sense to say UFC would refuse to acknowledge it.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=tc66tc;456044]wow, I'm glad I posted this one. This is far and away some of the most spirited discussion I've seen on here. I think the new weight classes are not needed. Personally I do not like it, this makes it like boxing where there are to many weight classes and to many champions. Same as Biggz I dont think the UFC will adopt it. They are perfect for smaller shows. It gives up and coming fighters a better way to really get a grasp of fighting and will a little fairer competition. But I dont think it is for the major leagues. Fighters already jump classes with 15lb gaps, belts and champions are already somewhat ambiguous, with that many more (in major competition) it will on be worse.[/QUOTE] they will adopt it if the nsac says these are the new rules... zuffa has been very vocal for years that they plan to do everything by the rules and if thats what the nsac says they will do it and i am sure with in the next 10 years you will see new weight classes... [QUOTE=tc66tc;456050]Also on top of what Biggz has said, the states (Nevada and Cali) can adopt the new rules to be uniform with the rest of the US, and UFC still keep there classes how they see fit by simply making the match at a "catch" weight. Or simply not sanction champions at the other weights. Edit: But on the otherside of it, im sure the UFC would love to be able to have a champion fight at each PPV and with 155, 165,175,185,195,205,225 and HW they would get a few more champions to be able to hype. The 155 and 205 divisions are just stacked with guys, breaking them off into other classes could be very good for marketing for the ufc. Still the 225 class just doesnt seem right. Overall it will be incredible interesting to see how all of this works out.[/QUOTE] 155 is stacked in the ufc? besides bj and sherk who else is a top ten fighter in mma working for the ufc? i know i have seen joe stevenson listed as a top ten on some polls, but i don't see how he is ever been in a top ten of the lightweights [QUOTE=Jennie Bomb;456131]Considering UFC's business model, I just don't see why they wouldn't adopt this new weight class system. It will allow them to put on more title fights, which will add a new layer of marketability to some fights, it'll make it far easier to protect marketable fighters by manipulating them through the weakest weight classes if there's a chance that they might be found out by a better fighter and it makes it easier to engineer anticipation for fights by keeping guys in different weight classes until the time is right. Plus, they could probably get away with running more shows if they have more divisions to promote. It just seems to make too much business sense to say UFC would refuse to acknowledge it.[/QUOTE] agreed

[D.O.]

[QUOTE=syndicate;456143]155 is stacked in the ufc? besides bj and sherk who else is a top ten fighter in mma working for the ufc? i know i have seen joe stevenson listed as a top ten on some polls, but i don't see how he is ever been in a top ten of the lightweights[/QUOTE] In terms of talent, the 155 pound division IS the most stacked in the sport, and that goes for the UFC too. Your arguement of rankings, in that division, is kind of silly when you think about it logically. The UFC did away with that division foa couple of years when things fell apart with their LW tournament, only to bring it back over the last coupe of years. Basically, you saw rankings lists filled with 155 pounds from PRIDE, and no one has really been able to properly adjust those rankings because those highly ranked japanese fighters aren't fighting top american fighters in the weight class. Look at Marcus Aurelio for example, he arguably beat Gomi twice, and then came to the UFC and got romped by a middle tier UFC LW in Guida before they hooked him up with two easy wins. Another highly ranked fighter from the PRIDE days Gilbert Melendez gets romped by another fighter not really on the rankings map in Josh Thomson. Unknown Frankie Edgar comes in and beats a top tier prospect like Tyson Griffin, who then gets beat by another prospect off the map in Gray Maynard. If there was ever a division where you can't judge talent by rankings, it's the 155 pound division and below. [QUOTE=Jennie Bomb;456131]Considering UFC's business model, I just don't see why they wouldn't adopt this new weight class system. It will allow them to put on more title fights, which will add a new layer of marketability to some fights, it'll make it far easier to protect marketable fighters by manipulating them through the weakest weight classes if there's a chance that they might be found out by a better fighter and it makes it easier to engineer anticipation for fights by keeping guys in different weight classes until the time is right. Plus, they could probably get away with running more shows if they have more divisions to promote. It just seems to make too much business sense to say UFC would refuse to acknowledge it.[/QUOTE] The problem with adopting all of these weight classes is that it waters down divisions far too much. Ok, so let's pretend heavyweight is now 225 and above. Now we've got these 235lb-240lb guys cutting to 225 because it is now attainable. Who fights at heavyweight? I mean it is already a terrible division as it is as far as depth goes. Brock Lesnar, Heath Herring, and Frank Mir will have their own title to fight over? Not to mention the simple fact that the UFC doesn't need more divisions to create more shows. They already have the fighters. It's not like they're making less shows because of a lack of weight classes or a lack of champions. I mean, people are already crying that there aren't enough guys to fight Anderson Silva at 185. Imagine if guys could fight at 195 and 175? All it does is further divides up talented divisions, and waters down talent. I mean, are you going to respect a 195 pound title, if say, Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson fought or it on the next show? I know I'm not, because I just saw them both get ravaged by the guy holding the 185lb strap. What the ABC did with weight classes was fix something that wasn't broken. As for everything else they did, I liked it. I like clarifying the back of the head as being like a mohawk, and not Herb Dean's retarded ear to ear definition. I like getting rid of the ban on 12 to 6 elbow strikes, since 6 to 12 are legal, and it is the SAME THING. But this weight class nonsense isn't needed. If a company chose to have all those weight classes, fine, but they shouldn't have tried to say that if you don't use them, you're no following the unified rules of mixed martial arts. That's too much in my opinion.

[syndicate]

[QUOTE=Derek4jc;456193]In terms of talent, the 155 pound division IS the most stacked in the sport, and that goes for the UFC too. Your arguement of rankings, in that division, is kind of silly when you think about it logically. The UFC did away with that division foa couple of years when things fell apart with their LW tournament, only to bring it back over the last coupe of years. Basically, you saw rankings lists filled with 155 pounds from PRIDE, and no one has really been able to properly adjust those rankings because those highly ranked japanese fighters aren't fighting top american fighters in the weight class. Look at Marcus Aurelio for example, he arguably beat Gomi twice, and then came to the UFC and got romped by a middle tier UFC LW in Guida before they hooked him up with two easy wins. Another highly ranked fighter from the PRIDE days Gilbert Melendez gets romped by another fighter not really on the rankings map in Josh Thomson. Unknown Frankie Edgar comes in and beats a top tier prospect like Tyson Griffin, who then gets beat by another prospect off the map in Gray Maynard. If there was ever a division where you can't judge talent by rankings, it's the 155 pound division and below.[/QUOTE] you make it sound like a fighter like clay guida sucks... marcus lost like 3 times in a row after he was first placed on the top ten for beating gomi... how can a guy can be ranked top ten after losing 3 times in a row? he was never ranked top 3 in pride... i could be wrong, but i think he was ranked 4 by mmaweekly when he beat gomi but that changed as soon as they had a rematch sure split, but i personally thought gomi clearly won the fight marcus has looked good since dropping 3 in a row, but thats not enough to place him on a top ten list melendez only fought like two times in pride i would not really consider him a high ranking pride guy since his last fight in pride was his biggest win and it did put him on the map, but pride pretty much died after that and he never fought in pride again for whatever reason... the guy still looked good holding the strikeforce title... he lost to ishida so it had to lower his stock then he loses again... thats 2 defeats out of his last 3 fights so it has to put him way down the rankings nobody is even saying the winner of the dream lightweight tournament will be #1 guy, but the tournament has several well known top ten and guys who with just a few victories would easily be top ten because they are dominating fighters... now you have 2 that are top ten and 2 others that are on some top ten lists, but at the bottom or just barley missing a couple votes to put them on that list when i say top ten i am talking about just every single ranking that is done by every major media outlet in mma do you honestly consider tyson griffin a top ten lightweight in mma? i don't consider him one nor do i consider guida a top ten lightweight, good fighters yes, but not top ten... they are capable of being top ten guys all they need to do is keep winning and look good when doing it and not lose to people who are not top ten... if you were to put one of them in a tournament like dream and have them go to the semi-finals you would have to give them credit and say they are top ten because they are already guys that are close to being in the top ten... since guys like griffin, franca, guida, edgar, auerllo and whoever are not in events like that they have to win several fights in a row and look dominating to be there and none of them have... looked good? yes, but not dominating and not enough where people are saying they should be top ten... franca was a bottom top ten guy and lost so he is no longer there ufc has plenty of good guys at 155, but realty is bj penn sits on top of that division much like anderson silva and nog sit as kings of their respected divisions when one of those guys loses at the division they are in then you will have even more changes in the top ten divisions like the ufc's 205 and 170 are stacked because of the amount talent of guys who are ranked in the top ten... besides jake shields and carlos condit fight at 170 and are not in the ufc yet people say sheilds and condit are top ten because of how dominating they have been yet they have not really faces top ten guys in the ufc... gomi is a guy who is on the top ten of every media outlet and in most cases he is number 1 on the rankings... gomi fights horodecki at the next sengoku event... chris horodecki is not ranked top ten in any media outlet, but i am sure that will change if he beats gomi and he is very capable of pulling the upset.... horodecki would of been a top ten fighter if he had not lost in the ifl because he was on a tear beating everybody none of the rankings are great, but they are still rankings and most of them are very close to one another of who is on top of what and with that said ufc division is not that stacked in terms of people who will give the champion a challenge i think the real issue with lightweight rankings is that gomi lost to diaz who was not ranked on any list and when it got changed to a no contest it put everything into chaos