New Unified Weight Classes Annouced

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE]with that said ufc division is not that stacked in terms of people who will give the champion a challenge[/QUOTE] That's a different statement than your first though saying the UFC LW division isn't stacked with talent. The rankings for LW are in constant flux because no one really knows how good everyone is outside of BJ and Gomi. As Derek said Melendez was considered a top five LW before losing, and the most recent Sherdog Rankings still had him at #5 prior to him getting dominated by Thomson. Aoki is a nice talent, but stick him in the states and what happens? Not sure, because his style could end up getting him deducted a point for not fighting when he sits on the ground and doesn't get up. That's strategy, but at the same time a lot of the fighters who fight in regulated areas and are not spoon-fed like Japanese fighters are much more well-round and/or aggressive. Eddie Alvarez was considered a solid, but not spectacular, lightweight before heading to the LWGP where he has looked like a top ten fighter. Ishida and Uno are still in the top ten, although Ishida was just beaten by Uno. And as Derek talked about the UFC division, you still have a plethora of guys who probably can break into the top of the rankings in Florian, Huerta, Maynard, Diaz, and others. As far as talent goes, it's a very stacked division where getting win streaks and dominance will be very hard. Saying they'll give BJ a challenge is an entirely different statement... because if he continues to train and fight like he has, it'll be hard pressed to find anyone in the world to challenge him (and don't mention Gomi, get tired of that one, we already seen what BJ will do to him >_>).

[crazedfan]

[QUOTE=syndicate;456256] i think the real issue with lightweight rankings is that gomi lost to diaz who was not ranked on any list and when it got changed to a no contest it put everything into chaos[/QUOTE] That was a year and a half ago. I don't know what chaos you're referring to when it comes to rankings.

[Capelli King]

I for one do not see the need for so many weight classes. I hate it in boxing, do not want to see it here either

[D.O.]

[QUOTE=syndicate;456256]you make it sound like a fighter like clay guida sucks... marcus lost like 3 times in a row after he was first placed on the top ten for beating gomi... how can a guy can be ranked top ten after losing 3 times in a row? he was never ranked top 3 in pride... i could be wrong, but i think he was ranked 4 by mmaweekly when he beat gomi but that changed as soon as they had a rematch sure split, but i personally thought gomi clearly won the fight marcus has looked good since dropping 3 in a row, but thats not enough to place him on a top ten list melendez only fought like two times in pride i would not really consider him a high ranking pride guy since his last fight in pride was his biggest win and it did put him on the map, but pride pretty much died after that and he never fought in pride again for whatever reason... the guy still looked good holding the strikeforce title... he lost to ishida so it had to lower his stock then he loses again... thats 2 defeats out of his last 3 fights so it has to put him way down the rankings nobody is even saying the winner of the dream lightweight tournament will be #1 guy, but the tournament has several well known top ten and guys who with just a few victories would easily be top ten because they are dominating fighters... now you have 2 that are top ten and 2 others that are on some top ten lists, but at the bottom or just barley missing a couple votes to put them on that list when i say top ten i am talking about just every single ranking that is done by every major media outlet in mma do you honestly consider tyson griffin a top ten lightweight in mma? i don't consider him one nor do i consider guida a top ten lightweight, good fighters yes, but not top ten... they are capable of being top ten guys all they need to do is keep winning and look good when doing it and not lose to people who are not top ten... if you were to put one of them in a tournament like dream and have them go to the semi-finals you would have to give them credit and say they are top ten because they are already guys that are close to being in the top ten... since guys like griffin, franca, guida, edgar, auerllo and whoever are not in events like that they have to win several fights in a row and look dominating to be there and none of them have... looked good? yes, but not dominating and not enough where people are saying they should be top ten... franca was a bottom top ten guy and lost so he is no longer there ufc has plenty of good guys at 155, but realty is bj penn sits on top of that division much like anderson silva and nog sit as kings of their respected divisions when one of those guys loses at the division they are in then you will have even more changes in the top ten divisions like the ufc's 205 and 170 are stacked because of the amount talent of guys who are ranked in the top ten... besides jake shields and carlos condit fight at 170 and are not in the ufc yet people say sheilds and condit are top ten because of how dominating they have been yet they have not really faces top ten guys in the ufc... gomi is a guy who is on the top ten of every media outlet and in most cases he is number 1 on the rankings... gomi fights horodecki at the next sengoku event... chris horodecki is not ranked top ten in any media outlet, but i am sure that will change if he beats gomi and he is very capable of pulling the upset.... horodecki would of been a top ten fighter if he had not lost in the ifl because he was on a tear beating everybody none of the rankings are great, but they are still rankings and most of them are very close to one another of who is on top of what and with that said ufc division is not that stacked in terms of people who will give the champion a challenge i think the real issue with lightweight rankings is that gomi lost to diaz who was not ranked on any list and when it got changed to a no contest it put everything into chaos[/QUOTE] You're arguing a completely different point from what I was saying. You said that the UFC LW division wasn't deep because it only had 2-3 top 10 fighters. I was making the point that the division is indeed VERY deep, and that rankings play absolutely no part in whether a division is deep. None at all. The fact that the division is loaded with talented fighters, the fact that guys who aren't even on anyone's radar go out and win big fights, the fact that the division constantly has some of the fastest paced, most highly competitive fights is why the division is so deep. Who cares who is in the top 10. The top 10 is meant to sort of allign fighters by their accomplishments, but has no bearing on fighters abilities. If you want to argue that Penn is a guy capable of beating everyone else in that division, or whether the guys in the UFC deserve to currently be ranked based on accomplishments, that's fine, but it really has nothing to do with what I was saying. I brought up thoe fighters to further display the parity in those divisions, and for no other reason.

[D.O.]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;456311]I for one do not see the need for so many weight classes. I hate it in boxing, do not want to see it here either[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's pretty much the biggest point. All the weight classes just aren't needed. I mean, they're a nice little guideline for organizations to pick and choose from if they want to, but athletic commissions are going to continue to do what they are doing. If an organization wants a fight at 170, then they can do that. If they want one at 160, they can do that. They're nice guidelines as to open the door for people to use them if they want, but the thing is, most orgs probably won't want to. Not to mention, look at japan. Shooto's FW division is 143, their FW division is 132. DREAM's LW division is 154, and their WW division is 168. As long as the division is properly outlined, there shouldn't be a problem.

[tc66tc]

[QUOTE=Derek4jc;456413]Yeah, that's pretty much the biggest point. All the weight classes just aren't needed. I mean, they're a nice little guideline for organizations to pick and choose from if they want to, but athletic commissions are going to continue to do what they are doing. If an organization wants a fight at 170, then they can do that. If they want one at 160, they can do that. They're nice guidelines as to open the door for people to use them if they want, but the thing is, most orgs probably won't want to. Not to mention, look at japan. Shooto's FW division is 143, their FW division is 132. DREAM's LW division is 154, and their WW division is 168. As long as the division is properly outlined, there shouldn't be a problem.[/QUOTE] I agree there is no need for greater number of classes, if they would have gone 10lb up till 155, then go 15 (170-185-200-215-265) I think it would have been fine with the addition of just one more class. But the addition of three is just to much.

[samuricex]

I like the new weight classes. They aren't needed anytime soon, but 10, 20, or 30+ years from now they will be when there are TOO many fighters. I don't want them to go crazy like Boxing with their 3-8 pound difference in weight classes, but I think ten across the board is a good number. Besides, I'm not a fan of people who cut 15-20+ pounds, and these new weight classes will help solve some of that problem.

[D.O.]

[QUOTE=samuricex;456475]I like the new weight classes. They aren't needed anytime soon, but 10, 20, or 30+ years from now they will be when there are TOO many fighters. I don't want them to go crazy like Boxing with their 3-8 pound difference in weight classes, but I think ten across the board is a good number. Besides, I'm not a fan of people who cut 15-20+ pounds, and these new weight classes will help solve some of that problem.[/QUOTE] New weight classes are NEVER going to stop guys from cutting large amounts of weight. In fact, it might encourage some guys to cut even more weight if more new weight classes were implimented. Weight cutting at a large scale will always be apart of the sport though.

[tc66tc]

[QUOTE=Derek4jc;456489]New weight classes are NEVER going to stop guys from cutting large amounts of weight. In fact, it might encourage some guys to cut even more weight if more new weight classes were implimented. Weight cutting at a large scale will always be apart of the sport though.[/QUOTE] That is really true, its been apart of amateur and collegiate wrestling forever, and now that another class is just 10lbs away instead of 15-20 guys will still be doing it, and probably more.

[samuricex]

I never said it was going to stop weight cutting, just stop a lot of the massive weight cuts. If the UFC changed and used the new weight divisions, then they'd add in three new weight classes, and I'm sure less people would be cutting 15+ pounds with closer weight classes. I fail to see how this would cause more people do these massive weight cuts.

[tc66tc]

I figure they would only pickup 2 classes. Drop 155 (move some talent to WEC) and use 165,175,185,195,205,225, and 265

[peewee]

[QUOTE=samuricex;456569]I never said it was going to stop weight cutting, just stop a lot of the massive weight cuts. If the UFC changed and used the new weight divisions, then they'd add in three new weight classes, and I'm sure less people would be cutting 15+ pounds with closer weight classes. I fail to see how this would cause more people do these massive weight cuts.[/QUOTE] I have no problem with the new weight classes personally, but anybody who thinks it'll decrease large amount weight cutting on a grand scale is mistaken. A guy like Joe Riggs, who has fought at HW & now cuts to fight at 185, has cut to 170 before & looked like warmed over death to get there. He'd never even attempt a cut to 155, but 165 is only 5 less than he's already done, so it would be tempting. Arturro Gatti in boxing is a prime example as well & boxing has a weight class every 3lbs for the lighter guys it seems. He used to be half dragged into the weigh ins with the IV already in his arm so they could hook up the fluids as soon as he stepped of the scale.

[D.O.]

[QUOTE=samuricex;456569]I never said it was going to stop weight cutting, just stop a lot of the massive weight cuts. If the UFC changed and used the new weight divisions, then they'd add in three new weight classes, and I'm sure less people would be cutting 15+ pounds with closer weight classes. I fail to see how this would cause more people do these massive weight cuts.[/QUOTE] Guys are ALWAYS going to try to get as low as they can so they can be as big as possible for their weight class. If you really believe that guys are just going to go, you know what, there are more weight classes now, I no longer feel a desire to be as large as i possibly can in the weight class I'm fighting in, then I really don't know what to say, other than that you couldn't be more wrong. Fighters are looking for any edge they can get, and size is one of them. [QUOTE=peewee;456588]I have no problem with the new weight classes personally, but anybody who thinks it'll decrease large amount weight cutting on a grand scale is mistaken. [B]A guy like Joe Riggs, who has fought at HW & now cuts to fight at 185, has cut to 170 before[/B] & looked like warmed over death to get there. He'd never even attempt a cut to 155, but 165 is only 5 less than he's already done, so it would be tempting. Arturro Gatti in boxing is a prime example as well & boxing has a weight class every 3lbs for the lighter guys it seems. He used to be half dragged into the weigh ins with the IV already in his arm so they could hook up the fluids as soon as he stepped of the scale.[/QUOTE] One point that should be made about the fact that Riggs fought at HW. He fought there because he was fat, not because he was just this big dude who now cuts weight. He weighed 300lbs at one point. The point about his cut to 170 is valid though.

[D.O.]

[url]http://mmajunkie.com/news/4742/ufc-unlikely-to-adopt-new-weight-classes-white-says-big-john-is-new-enemy.mma[/url] by Dave Meltzer on Jul 06, 2008 at 2:14 pm ET LAS VEGAS – When the Ultimate Fighting Championship started as a made-for-pay-per-view event in 1993, it was a learn-as-you-go proposition since nobody knew what to expect. Over the past few years, in attempting to turn whatever it started out as being to a legitimate sport with unified rules and commission regulation, there have been a new set of growing pains. The more popular the sport gets, the more controversies there seems to be regarding judging criteria, referee stoppages and rule interpretations. Last week, when the Association of Boxing Commissions came up with changes to the unified rules at its Montreal convention, among the many people who had no idea any of this was coming was UFC President Dana White. "There's going to be a fight," said White when talking about new rules being implemented. "And you know I don't roll over easily." White unequivocally said they have no intention of changing or adding to the company's current five current weight classes: Lightweight (155-pound maximum); welterweight (170); middleweight (185); light heavyweight (205) and heavyweight (265). The new unified rules include an ill-thought-out 14 different weight classes, particularly the addition of 215 and 225 pound divisions, which makes little sense with the dearth of quality heavyweights from 205 to 265 pounds to begin with. "No, we're not following that," he said. The commissions said that the promotions have the option of doing whatever weight classes they want. But doing so would create an inconsistent sport. It becomes an interesting game because from Day 1 after taking over the promotion in 2001, Zuffa has attempted to become regulated and fight under commission rules that would be universally recognized. There were many officials in the previous UFC ownership that weren't thrilled with some of the rules, in particular banning of knee strikes on the ground, that the New Jersey State Athletic Control board implemented in 2000. Those rules have been used as the framework in most new states that have since regulated the sport. But commission regulation, both of which they agreed and didn't agree with, was a necessary evil in the big picture of the sport's survival. With these new changes, including a ban on putting hands over the mouth or nose, but legalizing the straight up-and-down elbow strikes that had been banned, White believes he's got a new enemy. And it's a referee who at one time was the longest-lasting fixture in the company. "It's John McCarthy," White said. "He doesn't want to be a referee anymore. Now he wants to change the rules. And he's announcing for Affliction." McCarthy, who retired as a ref last year to join The Fight Network, a Canadian cable station, spoke at the commission meetings, where many commissions, including New Jersey, will interpret blows to the back of the head as being a straight line down the center of the head and the illegal zone would be one inch on either side. However, in California, commission head Armando Garcia said their interpretation of the illegal zone is everything behind the ears. McCarthy will also be doing commentary for the July 19 Affliction pay-per-view event, a promotion that White has declared war on, to the extent of running a free show on Spike TV head-to-head featuring middleweight champ Anderson Silva. Whatever the rules are, there needs to be consistency because companies run shows in different states with the same fighters, and being penalized in the middle of a fight for what was perfectly legal in the last fight isn't fair to anyone. Among other things White talked about in an impromptu post-press conference mini-conference is a late-October Chicago debut for a pay-per-view show and plans for a Boston debut in November. The former is closer to being finalized than the latter, as Massachusetts still has to finalize regulation of the sport. He also has 2009 goals of running in places like the Philippines, where he said UFC is on the equivalent of a major network and doing phenomenal television ratings, as well as Germany, Brazil and Dubai. Some shows would be smaller in stature from the type of pay-per-view level shows people are used to. "When I was spending four hours on Thursday at press conferences, Lorenzo (Fertitta) was in the office kicking ass," said White, who noted new UFC CEO Fertitta's key role is in expanding UFC internationally. White also noted meeting this past week with lightweight champion B.J. Penn, who is intent on challenging welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre, provided St. Pierre gets past Jon Fitch on Aug. 9 in Minneapolis. The light heavyweight division was thrown into a state of flux with Forrest Griffin's win Saturday night. There was much talk about Quinton Jackson getting a rematch, which White didn't rule out. There are also people like Lyoto Machida, Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva and Anderson Silva who are potentially in the mix. Dave Meltzer covers mixed martial arts for Yahoo! Sports. This story originally appeared on Yahoo! Sports and is syndicated on MMAjunkie.com as part of a content-partnership deal between the two sites.

[tc66tc]

good find Derek4jc