The state of wrestling now

[mike b]

Ok here is a simple question for all of you. What do you feel the state of wrestling is in now. is it going down hill,do they need new blood. Do you think that now that the WWE is the NFL of wrestling that they have maid wrestling more populare or will they be the death of wrestling some day. And finaly last but not least now that MMA has surpassed the wwe in ppv ticket sales could the world of MMA be the nail in pro wrestlings coffin. So what do you think.

[The Ego]

are you mad? The WWE is racking up the dollar more than ever.

[G-Prime]

MMA has higher buyrates than WWE because it's actually a sport, people don't feel as stupid paying to watch an actual contest. That's why boxing is popular too. If I recall correctly, MMA-related TV shows don't rate anywhere near RAW and SmackDown.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=mike b;473717]Ok here is a simple question for all of you. What do you feel the state of wrestling is in now..[/QUOTE] It's in a slump(Has been for about 4 or 5 years), but rising (I think). Ask this same question in about three months, and lets see what's going on.:) [QUOTE=mike b;473717]is it going down hill,do they need new blood..[/QUOTE] For the first part, same answer as first question. Far as new blood... I don't remember a time in history we had so much new blood. Every year, for example, I see about half a dozen NEW blood get into the WWE shows. [QUOTE=mike b;473717]Do you think that now that the WWE is the NFL of wrestling that they have maid wrestling more populare or will they be the death of wrestling some day..[/QUOTE] It was probably the most popular during the attitude era. As I said earlier, I think since then it's been going into a slump (high expectations for the "Invasion", didn't live up to expectations, takes a while to gain people's interest... far as main stream is concerned. Indie's are doing as good as they were before though, I believe. Just effecting mainly WWE/TNA stuff (in the states). Again, the question is bassically related to the first question. I think I know where your going possibly, so I might have something to say at the end here, that might be more of the answer your looking for. [QUOTE=mike b;473717]And finaly last but not least now that MMA has surpassed the wwe in ppv ticket sales could the world of MMA be the nail in pro wrestlings coffin. So what do you think.[/QUOTE] Other's already answered this. The MMA PPV's are "REAL" match's. I don't think you can really combine these two into the same category (Wrestling and MMA). One is real, one is entertainment (reguardless of how real it might look). I aggree with the previous poster's as to why..... HOWEVER, I think MMA could be the death of Boxing (not totally, but points have been made to me clearly to see how it's effecting the boxing industry). I'm not saying boxing will completely die, all they really need is a handfull of actually "Exciting" fighters, and they could end right back up in the limelight again (well, if it's promoted right, anyways). WWE have broke records in PPV and attendance in the last few years, so they are not hurting. I say it's in a slump (WWE wise) and rising because they have done a few things to gain a bit of attention to, well, wrestling fans. This could bring it up, might not. Time will tell. To me they seem to be still feeling the repercussions of not living up to expectations. Seems that everyone against WWE is mainly against them because of being dissapointed. When you dissapoint people, it's hard to win them back... Especially if you don't understand how to do it. Far as wrestling as a whole becoming more popular... I can't really see that happening. I think the most popular it ever was, was back in DOTT times. Definately during Wrestlemania I, but that's just in my lifetime. I've read some amazing number's Pre 70's, that were HUGE turnouts. The number's would astound quite a few people. The reason being is that most people (including myself), kind of look at wrestling as getting popular around the time you actually started watching it regularly the first time. The fact of the matter is, that it's been popular throughout the whole 1900's. So your favorite moments get shelved as "The Best" moments in wrestling. Totally biased opinions. My grandfather (when he was alive) would tell me of excitement in the sport that triple's anything I've seen. Of course looking at it from my perspective now, I realise he was doing the same thing... His time was the "Best" time, and most popular time of wrestling. Wrestling is not losing it, nor are they gaining a great deal (that I know of). It's just wrestling, we all outgrow, and grow back into it every once in a while. Some people stop watching and never look back, other's (like me) have watched it in different time periods of their lives.

[mike b]

Good points To all the posts above you have all maid very good points thank you. But the one thing i see and that's just me you may not agree with this is yes there is new blood coming into the wwe but and once again this is my opinion there are no real new superstar wrestlers. Wrestlers who can take the place of say HHH or the undertaker when they chose to retire. Sure there is new blood coming in but i cant just see any of them being able to carry the wwe say 10 years from now. Hopefully somewhere out therethere is a new ric flair or hulk hogan just waiting to be found.

[smartman]

Yes, WWE has rebounded from all of their trouble from the last couple of years (multiple firings from failed drug tests due to negative publicity of wrestlers dying leading to said drug tests and the whole Chris Benoit mess). However, the entire problem Vince has had throughout his ownership of WWF/E is that he has NEVER made a superstar. They have all been imports from other promotions (Hogan-AWA, Austin-WCW/ECW, Flair-NWA/WCW, HHH-WCW, etc). The closest he ever came was with Brock (the Rock and Orton don't count as they're 2nd generation wrestlers). Vince's genius has always been his ability to see superstardom and package it properly though you could even argue that. It's really funny (at least to me) that Vince was the greatest beneficiary of the territory system that he worked so hard to kill. So, I don't think Vince will ever be able to find another Hogan or Flair especially since they were one in a million superstars. Remember, the Attitude Era was so good because you had several guys that were just awesome on the mic, and the creative guys just got the heck out of their way. WWE has always become huge only when they've had several guys that just oozed charisma and mic skills. You can teach the latter to some degree, but you'll never be able to teach the former. Unless someone else gets big and challenges the E so Vince will feel threatened and borrow their ideas, I think they'll just be floating along just like they were when WCW was getting ready to become huge (the awful Kevin Nash era in WWF). Vince just isn't that motivated anymore, and I really wonder about Steph's ability to book WWE. You always know when WWE is really reaching the bottom of the barrel when they put themselves on TV. As for the last question, boxing has been trying to kill themselves for decades, and now MMA comes along to try and cut the cord to the life-support machine. Their biggest problem is how the results are perceived. In boxing, if someone knocks their opponent out in the first round, the guy is a supreme badass who everyone can hype, but in MMA, if someone is KO'd early, everyone complains about how bad the loser was and what a waste of time this was. Once that problem is solved and additional talented people enter the octagon, I think MMA will grow and grow, but I don't think they'll dominate wrestling as most of the fan base of wrestling isn't interested in MMA.

[BurningHamster]

Wrestling ain't too bad. WWE is pretty abysmal with only the occasional bright spot, I think running sports entertainment without having any really super charismatic guys is suicidal but since the WWE is such as well-oiled money making machine they will keep turning a profit as long as they can keep filling in air time, whether it's with wrestlers or dancing penguins. I won't watch it or go to any of their live events, but I will probably buy the odd retrospective DVD. The indies are in a pretty healthy state and produce some good wrestling, I haven't been keeping up as much lately but it makes me happy to know they are out there. TNA is improving, still a lot of nonsense but they are getting there. I just wish they would stop rushing everything and stop trying to be WWE lite + spotmonkeys + infomercial level phony excitement and hyping of everything. They have come a long way though. Japan is not great lately, some good, some bad, I don't think the Japanese indies are what they have traditionally been (which was awesome). Weirdly Big Japan may be my favourite promotion in the world right now, odd since I hate light tubes with a passion but they put on some really solid wrestling. Mexico is Mexico. CMLL is decent, AAA is nonsense. I love CMLL, they just keep doing lucha libre ... with luchadores who wrestle and stuff because they are a wrestling company in the lucha style. Really consistent, bad matches here and there but overall you know what you are going to get and so you never feel overly disappointed by anything they do. The rest of the world is lagging behind from what I can tell. I miss FWA in the UK. I wish Australian wrestling wasn't so yard tardy or WWE inspired. Very few guys here can take it to the mat, they mostly fly (badly and excessively) or do power moves (badly and excessively). MMA is something I am unsure about, other combat sports are pretty close to being dead and MMA's rise in popularity looks a bit like a fad to me. I can see it maybe staying big for several years then shrinking when the costs of the fighters rise and the public gets bored of watching one guy sitting on top of another guy while neither is able to do too much. Personally I started off as an MMA hater but the sport has grown on me to the point where i find it pretty fun. Unlike team sports though it doesn't really have the loyalty factor, so a lot depends on the quality and popularity of a few individual fighters. I think wrestling will survive the rise in MMA, it may hurt them when all the big tough mofos who should be the next generation of wrestlers decide to be the next generation of MMA fighters, but wrestling will live.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=mike b;474196]To all the posts above you have all maid very good points thank you. But the one thing i see and that's just me you may not agree with this is yes there is new blood coming into the wwe but and once again this is my opinion there are no real new superstar wrestlers. Wrestlers who can take the place of say HHH or the undertaker when they chose to retire. Sure there is new blood coming in but i cant just see any of them being able to carry the wwe say 10 years from now. Hopefully somewhere out therethere is a new ric flair or hulk hogan just waiting to be found.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=smartman;474293]Yes, WWE has rebounded from all of their trouble from the last couple of years (multiple firings from failed drug tests due to negative publicity of wrestlers dying leading to said drug tests and the whole Chris Benoit mess). However, the entire problem Vince has had throughout his ownership of WWF/E is that he has NEVER made a superstar. They have all been imports from other promotions (Hogan-AWA, Austin-WCW/ECW, Flair-NWA/WCW, HHH-WCW, etc). The closest he ever came was with Brock (the Rock and Orton don't count as they're 2nd generation wrestlers). Vince's genius has always been his ability to see superstardom and package it properly though you could even argue that. It's really funny (at least to me) that Vince was the greatest beneficiary of the territory system that he worked so hard to kill. So, I don't think Vince will ever be able to find another Hogan or Flair especially since they were one in a million superstars. Remember, the Attitude Era was so good because you had several guys that were just awesome on the mic, and the creative guys just got the heck out of their way. WWE has always become huge only when they've had several guys that just oozed charisma and mic skills. You can teach the latter to some degree, but you'll never be able to teach the former. Unless someone else gets big and challenges the E so Vince will feel threatened and borrow their ideas, I think they'll just be floating along just like they were when WCW was getting ready to become huge (the awful Kevin Nash era in WWF). Vince just isn't that motivated anymore, and I really wonder about Steph's ability to book WWE. You always know when WWE is really reaching the bottom of the barrel when they put themselves on TV[/QUOTE] These two posts go together in a way, so my responce is going to be for both of them. First off... The idea that WWE has to get talent from elsewhere, I see where your going, but I fail to see the analysis (meaning I aggree up to a point). ALL TALENT COMES FROM ELSEWHERE. No one is hired without ever wrestling before and just becomes this huge star. Every one of those people have wrestled as nobodies at one time or another. Secondly, People like The Rock, Stone Cold, and yes, even Hulk Hogan was not the icons they are today, even in thier prime. WWE did quite a bit to package them and deliver them as the stars remembered today, but they were NOT that way before coming to WWE. Flair, Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, yes. I can aggree with you on these outstanding charismatic individuals, that would have, and were already big time before WWE got them. However, you can't discredit WWE by saying this guy worked here, or that guy worked their. Hell, even Vince Sr. worked somewhere else first. Quite a few people worked elsewhere, but never gained the Global popularity they have now without the WWE. 15 years ago, no one would have thought the Rock was going to end up the legend he is today. No one would have thought that way about Steve Austin. Wasn't the Rock getting boo'd for the most part before he left completely? Even at that time I don't think they would have been thought to be remembered the way they are now. No one can see the future, but 10 years from now, I know people will still be talking about all the wrestler's they can't see in action anymore. However, 10 years from now other's will also be legends. Undertaker perhaps? Kane? HBK? John Cena? If any of these guys are not around in 20 years, more then likely they will be thought of as legends, especially if the younger one's stay with it for another 10 years. If you want to say they were already the stars they are today, and WWE did nothing for them, I can't see your point at all. Far as the future goes, time will tell. I won't pretend to know the future, but I can say I think MVP, Kennedy, Batista (come on man, WWE made for sure), Cena and Edge (Both still young), Punk, Kane, Santino, Benjamin, Deuce, Orton, Umaga (as whatever character), Jimmy Yang, Natalya, Phoenix, Micky James, Vladimir, Elijah, Matt Korklan/Evan Bourne, Armando, The Miz, even Ricky Ortiz is looking interesting lately.... I don't have a problem with their roster, nor can I say that there isn't a goldmine in there somewhere. They can't all be MAIN EVENTERS right now. Not that they dont' have the ability to be, but someone has to be midcard, someone has to be low card. Longevity will test them out, and we will see who can cut it and who can't... And NO I don't think Morrison or Benjamin will ever be HUGE, but I do think they can really help other's become huge. I look at this differently I guess. I am old enough to have watched wrestling since the 70's, so I can see how people progressed, and I can tell you that none of them were overnight success's... I can't think of a single wrestler that made it huge in the first year they began their professional carreer. Not one (Perhaps Goldberg?). I see the same talent, if not more on TNA as well. Quite a few of the younger guys I think could easily be main eventer's and carry a promotion. The loophole, and that which no one will ever wait for... Is time. People don't become able to carry a company in a year or two, or three. It takes years to make them huge. I would say at least five years to even be considered legit. At least two or three in a row, with a promotion such as TNA or WWE. You look at someone like Santino and say..> Dang them, they keep jobbing him out all the time. What you don't think about is all the mic time, the "Entertainment" value, the screen time in any fashion, to get him very well known. He is more popular then his position on the card suggests. We play a game that use's mainly two ingrediants that "Auto" puts people on the card. These elements are Overness/Popularity and Ringwork/Skill. This carries over very well for the gameplay, and makes for a very fun game. However, that's not how things are done... Especially in a product like WWE. You have to have very popular people for every prop/belt. Why would anyone be interested in a low level belt, if only a low level worker were going after it? In WWE they have people going after the US title, or the ECW title, or the Intercontinental title, that are more popular then people going after their main two belts. Of course the MOST popular wrestler's in the majority, are going to be centered around the most important Prop, but you have to have your Hardy's, your Kennedy's and such to be fighting over the lesser belts, to create genuine interest in them. You have to have your Santino's around for the lowest level belts... But guess what happens when poeple leave from the main event, or they get hurt? Other's step up into those shoe's, to keep the flow going. Khali is Main Event, Umaga, etc. However, people like MVP, Kennedy, Jericho are more Popular (subjective comment, but I'll bet all three move merchandise alot more, anyday). Doesn't mean they have to be in the Main event. They must have popular people to build the storyline's around, no matter the so called "Level" of the title/prop. It's great to be able to put lower level belts on less known individuals to help "Make them, but at the same time, you need your more well known people to be in the mix trying to get it, or no one cares (See Kingston). Blah... You probably wont' see my point, but I'll bet you could look back at this post 10 years from now and be shocked.

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=smartman;474293]Yes, WWE has rebounded from all of their trouble from the last couple of years (multiple firings from failed drug tests due to negative publicity of wrestlers dying leading to said drug tests and the whole Chris Benoit mess). However, the entire problem Vince has had throughout his ownership of WWF/E is that he has NEVER made a superstar. They have all been imports from other promotions (Hogan-AWA, Austin-WCW/ECW, Flair-NWA/WCW, HHH-WCW, etc). The closest he ever came was with Brock (the Rock and Orton don't count as they're 2nd generation wrestlers). Vince's genius has always been his ability to see superstardom and package it properly though you could even argue that. It's really funny (at least to me) that Vince was the greatest beneficiary of the territory system that he worked so hard to kill. So, I don't think Vince will ever be able to find another Hogan or Flair especially since they were one in a million superstars. MMA.[/QUOTE] Hmm, i dont agree with your logic on this point at all. The Rock doesn't count because he is a 3rd generation star?? Why not? He wasn't born with A* overness :) Im sure you could make up up conditions for most workers. Shawn Michaels doesnt count because he found god. Ricky Steamboat doesn't count because he looked a little like Bruce Lee. I just dont see what that has to do with the way they pushed the Rock character. Its like saying he's a movie star now because his granddad was Peter Mavia. I think HHH and Austin are bad examples as well. Trips wasn't doing much in WCW. They recognised his potential and brought him over. He wasn't an instant main eventer. He worked his way up the card, developing a character, being put into storylines designed to get him more over. How is that not developing a star? I do bow down to your knowledge of wrestling around the world though. Very impressive knowing whats happening around the globe :)

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE]Remember, the Attitude Era was so good because you had several guys that were just awesome on the mic, and the creative guys just got the heck out of their way. [/QUOTE] So... Creative had absolutely nothing to do with it?

[Self]

Yeah. I disagree with that Creative comment as well. WWE has made plenty of stars. Rock, Austin, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Batista, John Cena, Randy Orton... The list could go on, and they have plenty of people waiting in the wings. DJthefunkchris is right. You can't all be main event players at once. You've got to spread things out.[I] You don't need to be World Champion to be a valuable star in WWE.[/I] If you're contributing to the show, if you're earning the company money through merchandise, then you're a success. The Hardy Boys are a success. Mr. Kennedy is a success. Sometimes I think Internet fans become marks for the belts, and forget that this is a fictional business, and it's not about the titles. I will agree that there hasn't been this one awesome breakout star in a while, but... Maybe we think that because we're 'smart' fans. Look at John Cena. The dude exploded. Sure, internet fans don't like him because of his "lack of skills" and "superman push" but most of the fanbase don't care about that. John Cena is a huge star, although admittedly not Rock/Austin level. Batista too. I don't see the appeal, but American audiences seem to. I didn't like Austin at the time either, but I have no problems calling him a legend. As for the state of wrestling... It's a bit of a slump. MMA is pushing up. Ratings are down a bit. It'll bounce back, but I'm putting my money of things dropping a little further first.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;474404] Secondly, People like The Rock, Stone Cold, and yes, even [B]Hulk Hogan[/B] was not the icons they are today, even in thier prime. WWE did quite a bit to package them and deliver them as the stars remembered today, but they were NOT that way before coming to WWE. Flair, Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, yes. I can aggree with you on these outstanding charismatic individuals, that would have, and were already big time before WWE got them. [/QUOTE] On Hogan, yes you are kind of right. The WWWF did package him. Infact, IIRC he actually slammed Andre at Shea Stadium in 79 or 80 around then when Bruno Sammartino def Larry Zbysko, his protege in a steel cage. But he certainly wasn't made, and they went a long way to try and distance themselves from the fact he'd been there before, as was the way in the territories systems. Even though they reverberated a lot of the same stuff, it had to be marketed as new in a lot of cases. Hogan then went away, became a big draw in Japan, along with Andre the Giant he was killing it. He was a main eventer in the AWA, but of course Verne Gagne in his infinite wisdom kept pulling a dusty type finish on him to keep the belt on Nick Bockwinkel. Oh, and there was a certain thing called Rocky III. So when he arrived to the WWF in 1983, Hogan was starting to become very established. The only who couldn't get that was Verne Gagne. As far as I know, Hogan's first match back in the WWF was just after Christmas, 1983, and he won the WWF World Title a month later.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=tristram;474450]On Hogan, yes you are kind of right. The WWWF did package him. Infact, IIRC he actually slammed Andre at Shea Stadium in 79 or 80 around then when Bruno Sammartino def Larry Zbysko, his protege in a steel cage. But he certainly wasn't made, and they went a long way to try and distance themselves from the fact he'd been there before, as was the way in the territories systems. Even though they reverberated a lot of the same stuff, it had to be marketed as new in a lot of cases. Hogan then went away, became a big draw in Japan, along with Andre the Giant he was killing it. He was a main eventer in the AWA, but of course Verne Gagne in his infinite wisdom kept pulling a dusty type finish on him to keep the belt on Nick Bockwinkel. Oh, and there was a certain thing called Rocky III. So when he arrived to the WWF in 1983, Hogan was starting to become very established. The only who couldn't get that was Verne Gagne. As far as I know, Hogan's first match back in the WWF was just after Christmas, 1983, and he won the WWF World Title a month later.[/QUOTE] I can't remember which story it is (And I'm just adding to your comment/aggreeing 100%) but one of them actually got ticked off that he done the movie. I think it might have been Gagne, but not sure. Anyways, I've told this next story before, but I think it fits here as well. Snuka was the man, as I remember it. They had to do quite a bit to get Snuka out of people's minds and Hogan in them. Even before Rocky come out, Hogan had a following that was huge. McMahan seen this going on, and was 100% interested in him at that point. This was 100% Hogan's charisma. People just loved him period, and couldn't get enough of him. The only thing holding him back was he was NOT a household name, but huge in like the "Underground" type of way. Kind of like a hugely popular Indie wrestler would be today, only BIGGER... Or an Underground song that's not being played on the radio, but everyone knows it. As you said, after the Rocky Movie (and his joining the WWF), it couldn't have happened at a better time for him, or the WWF. They had national exposure at this point, and was able to "Deliver" the package of Hulk Hogan as "New" because of the tons of people that still had not heard of him. Where he was held back in AWA, WWF did all they could to "Enhance" him. Hogan was already the Package, but he wasn't Icon till after WWF got him. This is NOT to say any other company couldn't have done the same thing with him, because they could have..> The Difference is that WWF was everywhere, and left the territorial system behind. With branching out nationally, they were able to make the biggest impact for quite a few people.

[mike b]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;474404]These two posts go together in a way, so my responce is going to be for both of them. First off... The idea that WWE has to get talent from elsewhere, I see where your going, but I fail to see the analysis (meaning I aggree up to a point). ALL TALENT COMES FROM ELSEWHERE. No one is hired without ever wrestling before and just becomes this huge star. Every one of those people have wrestled as nobodies at one time or another. Secondly, People like The Rock, Stone Cold, and yes, even Hulk Hogan was not the icons they are today, even in thier prime. WWE did quite a bit to package them and deliver them as the stars remembered today, but they were NOT that way before coming to WWE. Flair, Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, yes. I can aggree with you on these outstanding charismatic individuals, that would have, and were already big time before WWE got them. However, you can't discredit WWE by saying this guy worked here, or that guy worked their. Hell, even Vince Sr. worked somewhere else first. Quite a few people worked elsewhere, but never gained the Global popularity they have now without the WWE. 15 years ago, no one would have thought the Rock was going to end up the legend he is today. No one would have thought that way about Steve Austin. Wasn't the Rock getting boo'd for the most part before he left completely? Even at that time I don't think they would have been thought to be remembered the way they are now. No one can see the future, but 10 years from now, I know people will still be talking about all the wrestler's they can't see in action anymore. However, 10 years from now other's will also be legends. Undertaker perhaps? Kane? HBK? John Cena? If any of these guys are not around in 20 years, more then likely they will be thought of as legends, especially if the younger one's stay with it for another 10 years. If you want to say they were already the stars they are today, and WWE did nothing for them, I can't see your point at all. Far as the future goes, time will tell. I won't pretend to know the future, but I can say I think MVP, Kennedy, Batista (come on man, WWE made for sure), Cena and Edge (Both still young), Punk, Kane, Santino, Benjamin, Deuce, Orton, Umaga (as whatever character), Jimmy Yang, Natalya, Phoenix, Micky James, Vladimir, Elijah, Matt Korklan/Evan Bourne, Armando, The Miz, even Ricky Ortiz is looking interesting lately.... I don't have a problem with their roster, nor can I say that there isn't a goldmine in there somewhere. They can't all be MAIN EVENTERS right now. Not that they dont' have the ability to be, but someone has to be midcard, someone has to be low card. Longevity will test them out, and we will see who can cut it and who can't... And NO I don't think Morrison or Benjamin will ever be HUGE, but I do think they can really help other's become huge. I look at this differently I guess. I am old enough to have watched wrestling since the 70's, so I can see how people progressed, and I can tell you that none of them were overnight success's... I can't think of a single wrestler that made it huge in the first year they began their professional carreer. Not one (Perhaps Goldberg?). I see the same talent, if not more on TNA as well. Quite a few of the younger guys I think could easily be main eventer's and carry a promotion. The loophole, and that which no one will ever wait for... Is time. People don't become able to carry a company in a year or two, or three. It takes years to make them huge. I would say at least five years to even be considered legit. At least two or three in a row, with a promotion such as TNA or WWE. You look at someone like Santino and say..> Dang them, they keep jobbing him out all the time. What you don't think about is all the mic time, the "Entertainment" value, the screen time in any fashion, to get him very well known. He is more popular then his position on the card suggests. We play a game that use's mainly two ingrediants that "Auto" puts people on the card. These elements are Overness/Popularity and Ringwork/Skill. This carries over very well for the gameplay, and makes for a very fun game. However, that's not how things are done... Especially in a product like WWE. You have to have very popular people for every prop/belt. Why would anyone be interested in a low level belt, if only a low level worker were going after it? In WWE they have people going after the US title, or the ECW title, or the Intercontinental title, that are more popular then people going after their main two belts. Of course the MOST popular wrestler's in the majority, are going to be centered around the most important Prop, but you have to have your Hardy's, your Kennedy's and such to be fighting over the lesser belts, to create genuine interest in them. You have to have your Santino's around for the lowest level belts... But guess what happens when poeple leave from the main event, or they get hurt? Other's step up into those shoe's, to keep the flow going. Khali is Main Event, Umaga, etc. However, people like MVP, Kennedy, Jericho are more Popular (subjective comment, but I'll bet all three move merchandise alot more, anyday). Doesn't mean they have to be in the Main event. They must have popular people to build the storyline's around, no matter the so called "Level" of the title/prop. It's great to be able to put lower level belts on less known individuals to help "Make them, but at the same time, you need your more well known people to be in the mix trying to get it, or no one cares (See Kingston). my point, Blah... You probably wont' see but I'll bet you could look back at this post 10 years from now and be shocked.[/QUOTE] I do see yr point and very well done. I to like you grew up with wrestling from the 70's and i remember geting to meet jessi The Body Ventura before he became the legend he is now

[Destiny]

[QUOTE=mike b;474659]I do see yr point and very well done. I to like you grew up with wrestling from the 70's and i remember geting to meet jessi The Body Ventura before he became the legend he is now[/QUOTE] Jesse "The Body" Ventura was awesome in that documentary that's on the Wrestlemania 19 DVD.