Favre Traded

[i effin rule]

[QUOTE]The Brett Favre era in Green Bay apparently came to an end late Wednesday as the longtime Packers star quarterback was traded to the New York Jets, FoxSports.com reported. The trade, believed to be a single draft pick that increases in value depending upon how the Jets perform during the 2008 season, was confirmed by ESPN's Michael Smith on Wednesday night.[/QUOTE] Credit to ESPN.com

[Actarus]

Holy...crap! I guess I can't call the Packers the Green Bay Favre's anymore...

[i effin rule]

Chances are that Pennington is now on the move as the Jets have to either restructure Favre's deal or free up 12 mil. The Jets could do great in this, depending on what they get for Pennington. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bears, Vikes, or Panthers involved.

[Trell]

DAMMIT, now I have to worry about The jets in the division. CRAP :)

[Prophet]

That's if Favre goes. He could pull a Plummer. And I have a very strong feeling that Pennington will be gone before the end of camp. There's no way he's gonna want to sit on the bench, even if it's behind Brett. Even with all the big money thrown around by NY's second team, I don't think they're gonna make a huge push. Of course, last year I said the Giants had no chance in the playoffs, if they made it, andwas pleasantly surprised. lol

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]That's if Favre goes. He could pull a Plummer. [/QUOTE] Doesn't seem like that will happen since the Jets seemingly have smoothed over any concerns that Favre had in a phone conversation. Growing up in Wisconsin I was never a Packers fan, however, understood what Brett meant to our state. As I grew older I found myself loving the guy... Not because he was the biggest sports star in WI (as I am a Cowboys Fan)... But because of the sheer love he had for the game. The way he plays football is truly fun to watch. With that being said, This makes the Jets seem somewhat good... However... They still lack any offensive threats (Coles is their best bet?) and have a unproven offensive line. All in all.... I hoe the Packers loose every game this year ;) EDIT: Also, it kind of sucks cause I have Kellen Clements as my back up QB in the GDS Fantasy Football League. Now I have to keep my eyes glued to the pre season to see who I could pick up for my backup QB. Who ever comes out of the Pre-Season looking the best will probably have to be my choice.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Trell;475616]DAMMIT, now I have to worry about The jets in the division. CRAP :)[/QUOTE] No you don't. The Jets will still suck. Quote me on that. Chad Pennington needs a change of scenery. With Brett in green & white (as opposed to green & gold) and Kellen Clemens waiting in the wings, brittle Chad with the busted shoulders has no place on the roster, given his cap number. Honestly, I don't see the Vikings being interested since Tarvaris Jackson has a MUCH bigger upside than Pennington (and he costs them far less). I don't know if I'd ask my vets to restructure their deals to make room for a perennial IR resident. The Bears could probably use him. Then again, if you can throw a football, the Bears could probably use you (because Rex is a moron and Kyle Orton can't stay upright). Lovie and Jerry Angelo are really going to regret passing on Joe Flacco IMO. Besides that, aren't the Bears all capped out after giving Devin Hester the raise he so richly deserved? [QUOTE=Prophet;475619]That's if Favre goes. He could pull a Plummer. And I have a very strong feeling that Pennington will be gone before the end of camp. There's no way he's gonna want to sit on the bench, even if it's behind Brett. Even with all the big money thrown around by NY's second team, I don't think they're gonna make a huge push. Of course, last year I said the Giants had no chance in the playoffs, if they made it, andwas pleasantly surprised. lol[/QUOTE] Brett can't pull a Plummer. He has to sign off on any deal the Packers could try to make. During this whole saga, I remember reading that the Packers couldn't send him anywhere he didn't want to go and that he gave them a list of teams he'd accept being traded to. I'd really rather not see #4 go out like #12 (Namath) did. I think it would've been better for him to be traded to the Bucs where Jon Gruden would've given him a blank check as far as running the offense is concerned. Favre to Galloway would've been awesome to watch. The Jets offense is too tight, too convoluted for a quarterback of Brett's stature (and age/experience). After working in offenses designed by offensive minds like Holmgren, Sherman, McCarthy (all of which count a certain Mr. Walsh as mentors), moving into Brian Schottenheimer's system (which has never been proven to be particularly effective) is going to be a huge step back. I don't think anyone in the AFC East has anything to worry about. Brett will probably get his most basic numbers (3k passing yards, 20ish TDs, etc) but he won't be the Brett Favre people saw last season. He was the center of the Packers offense and he won't have that role with the Jets (who don't have the same level of talent at receiver/tight end or on defense).

[AfRoMaN36]

YESSS!!! Does this mean the Jets will actually win games now? .... Probably not. :(

[Prophet]

[QUOTE=Remianen;475635]Brett can't pull a Plummer. He has to sign off on any deal the Packers could try to make. During this whole saga, I remember reading that the Packers couldn't send him anywhere he didn't want to go and that he gave them a list of teams he'd accept being traded to. I'd really rather not see #4 go out like #12 (Namath) did. I think it would've been better for him to be traded to the Bucs where Jon Gruden would've given him a blank check as far as running the offense is concerned. Favre to Galloway would've been awesome to watch. The Jets offense is too tight, too convoluted for a quarterback of Brett's stature (and age/experience). After working in offenses designed by offensive minds like Holmgren, Sherman, McCarthy (all of which count a certain Mr. Walsh as mentors), moving into Brian Schottenheimer's system (which has never been proven to be particularly effective) is going to be a huge step back.[/QUOTE] The way I understood it, and granted, I could be way wrong, was that the Packers were trying to find a place Brett would want to go "out of respect." As an alternative to shunning his 16 years of service to back up an unknown and unproven commodity in the NFL. With the amount of money the Jets have spent this offseason, with Faneca and Jenkins, I think they're cap strapped, so if they propose a restructure with Brett, he could theoretically throw his hands up, and say "I quit." Again, if my understanding is correct. As for Favre going to Tampa, well I can see why that'd be appealing, in theory, but the Pack were charging more for Favre because Tampa's an NFC team who they face in week 4. Although in that scenario, Jeff Garcia - Bears QB sounds appealing, whereas Chad Pennington - Bears Benchwarmer loses some luster. So long as my Giants make it to the playoffs this year, I'm a happy camper, though.

[The Swanton825]

Woohoo! The Vikings might have a fighting chance this year!

[Self]

What are we talking about here? Baseball? Go Nuggets! :D

[Sons of Kohral]

[QUOTE=Remianen;475635]No you don't. The Jets will still suck. Quote me on that. Chad Pennington needs a change of scenery. With Brett in green & white (as opposed to green & gold) and Kellen Clemens waiting in the wings, brittle Chad with the busted shoulders has no place on the roster, given his cap number. Honestly, I don't see the Vikings being interested since Tarvaris Jackson has a MUCH bigger upside than Pennington (and he costs them far less). I don't know if I'd ask my vets to restructure their deals to make room for a perennial IR resident. The Bears could probably use him. Then again, if you can throw a football, the Bears could probably use you (because Rex is a moron and Kyle Orton can't stay upright). Lovie and Jerry Angelo are really going to regret passing on Joe Flacco IMO. Besides that, aren't the Bears all capped out after giving Devin Hester the raise he so richly deserved? Brett can't pull a Plummer. He has to sign off on any deal the Packers could try to make. During this whole saga, I remember reading that the Packers couldn't send him anywhere he didn't want to go and that he gave them a list of teams he'd accept being traded to. I'd really rather not see #4 go out like #12 (Namath) did. I think it would've been better for him to be traded to the Bucs where Jon Gruden would've given him a blank check as far as running the offense is concerned. Favre to Galloway would've been awesome to watch. The Jets offense is too tight, too convoluted for a quarterback of Brett's stature (and age/experience). After working in offenses designed by offensive minds like Holmgren, Sherman, McCarthy (all of which count a certain Mr. Walsh as mentors), moving into Brian Schottenheimer's system (which has never been proven to be particularly effective) is going to be a huge step back. I don't think anyone in the AFC East has anything to worry about. Brett will probably get his most basic numbers (3k passing yards, 20ish TDs, etc) but he won't be the Brett Favre people saw last season. He was the center of the Packers offense and he won't have that role with the Jets (who don't have the same level of talent at receiver/tight end or on defense).[/QUOTE] As a fellow Brooklynite, I second every single thing you say

[CQI13]

Hopefully the bad karma comes back to him. And I don't understand what the fans chanting "We want Brett" does to help any situation in GB. If you're a GB fan, don't you want Aaron Rodgers to do well? I don't get it.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

Starting off, I live in WI, am no way a Packer fan and this is probably for the best though with Favre being out of Green Bay. For the past 3 years he's been waiting til the final moment to decide if he's retiring or not making everyone wait and not move on with building a team for Rodgers. Now they finally have and maybe Rodgers will shock everyone, I mean he did do better against the Cowboys than Favre. I still don't think Packer's will have a winning season but Rodgers should be a decent Matt Hasselbeck type QB. Too bad Favre didn't go to the Bucs I was really hoping for that. I just found out that he was traded for a 4th round pick. That's horrible. Favre was at least worth a second round easily.

[AfRoMaN36]

[QUOTE=Tyler Gadzinski;475751]Starting off, I live in WI, am no way a Packer fan and this is probably for the best though with Favre being out of Green Bay. For the past 3 years he's been waiting til the final moment to decide if he's retiring or not making everyone wait and not move on with building a team for Rodgers. Now they finally have and maybe Rodgers will shock everyone, I mean he did do better against the Cowboys than Favre. I still don't think Packer's will have a winning season but Rodgers should be a decent Matt Hasselbeck type QB. Too bad Favre didn't go to the Bucs I was really hoping for that. I just found out that he was traded for a 4th round pick. That's horrible. Favre was at least worth a second round easily.[/QUOTE] Yeah but with insentives like gold. Just brining the Jets to the playoff will land them a second round draft pick and if he takes them to the superbowl (LOL) They score a first round pick. All in all, I'm just glad the Jets are putting in an effort to put a winning team on the feild. The last few years, they have lived and died on Chads health. When he was on the feild and healthy, they won, if not, they lost. At least they can pretty much guarantee themselves a full season out of their starter. Farve played the day after his own father died... and he played WELL might I add. He may be packing on the years, but he is as bullet proof as a 40 year old can get and everything else should just fall into place for the Jets. [QUOTE=CQI13;475737]Hopefully the bad karma comes back to him. And I don't understand what the fans chanting "We want Brett" does to help any situation in GB. If you're a GB fan, don't you want Aaron Rodgers to do well? I don't get it.[/QUOTE] Thats the thing with pationate fans... they don't care. They are chanting with their hearts, not their brains. Like when A-Rod would struggle and under perform, you think the verbal media beatdowns and the constant booing he got helped? But it can't be helped.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

Yeah.. I like all the clauses with the trade.. Jets make playoffs, then Packers get 2nd Round pick. If Jets make the Superbowl, then Packers get 1st Round Pick. Then someone at work was telling me if Jets trade Favre to the Vikings then we get there 1st round picks for the next 3 years, or something like that. I don't know how true that part is though.

[Prophet]

[QUOTE]Hopefully the bad karma comes back to him. And I don't understand what the fans chanting "We want Brett" does to help any situation in GB. If you're a GB fan, don't you want Aaron Rodgers to do well? I don't get it. [/QUOTE] I can't speak for the longevity of the situation, because as a fan, I've never really had to endure years of will he/won't he like Packer fans have. Closest I got was 2 years with Strahan, and even then, he could miss training camp and still help bring us a ring. However, if I was a Packers fan, I'd have been in that crowd, cheering for Brett, mocking Aaron Rogers, and being an all around jerkish type. Because no matter how badly this situation has been handled, by both sides, the fact still remains that Brett Favre is one of the greatest QB's to touch a football, and after last season, theoretically gives the Pack the best chance to go back to the promised land. As an empassioned fan, you cheer anyone and everyone who will give you a chance to grab the brass ring, and jeer anyone who takes that chance away. A-Rod is the best example, but you can also look at T.O. That man has villified every QB who has ever thrown a ball to him, and was booed out of SF and Philly and Baltimore without even playing there. And he's still one of the three most popular people in Dallas. I give the Jets a lot of credit though. Win or lose this season, you can't say the team didn't try.

[mike b]

Thank gawd I just have one thing to say to this whole thing.... Thank gawd he is with the jets now. Hey I'm a vikings fans and as much as i would like to see Brett in a vikings uniform i just cant see them giving up 1st rounders for a guy who is 38 yrs old and yes he may still have his arm but his legs are getting slower. I just did not want to see a repeat of hershall walker all over again. I remember that deal the vikings made with the cowboys to get him and look what happened Vikings still did not go anywhere and that stupid deal(amount of draft picks) led the cowboys to when the next 3 out of the next 4 Superbowl's. So goodbye Brett have fun at your new team

[Imarevenant]

[QUOTE=Prophet;475889]I can't speak for the longevity of the situation, because as a fan, I've never really had to endure years of will he/won't he like Packer fans have. Closest I got was 2 years with Strahan, and even then, he could miss training camp and still help bring us a ring. However, if I was a Packers fan, I'd have been in that crowd, cheering for Brett, mocking Aaron Rogers, and being an all around jerkish type. Because no matter how badly this situation has been handled, by both sides, the fact still remains that Brett Favre is one of the greatest QB's to touch a football, and after last season, theoretically gives the Pack the best chance to go back to the promised land. As an empassioned fan, you cheer anyone and everyone who will give you a chance to grab the brass ring, and jeer anyone who takes that chance away. A-Rod is the best example, but you can also look at T.O. That man has villified every QB who has ever thrown a ball to him, and was booed out of SF and Philly and Baltimore without even playing there. And he's still one of the three most popular people in Dallas. I give the Jets a lot of credit though. Win or lose this season, you can't say the team didn't try.[/QUOTE] Thing is though. Favre has made it clear he didn't want to be in Green Bay, if you read between the lines. 1. The day after he retired, his agent was asking teams if they had interest in Favre. Do you really think Brett Favre had no say in what his agent was doing? 2. He's pulled the will he/won't he come back thing for like 3 years now; each time announcing his intentions to come back, right before training camp. This year though, when asked why he retired before the draft instead of asking for more time to make up his mind, he said that he felt pressure from the coach and ownership. Seriously, what did they do? Ask for a decision before the actual draft so they could determine what their needs were? Are we supposed to naively believe that they didn't ask the very same thing the 2 years prior, when Favre waited until just before training camp to announce that he'll be back? I don't buy it at all. If he needed more time, all he would have had to do was ask, he's Brett Freaking Favre! 3. In June, two months after the draft, when rumors kept coming around about Favre wanting to come back, Ted Thompson and McCarthy talked to Favre, fully on board with him coming back to the team. This was after they spent 2 draft picks on Quarterbacks in order to replace him and give them some fallback if Rogers failed. And when it came time to the Packers wanting to have a press conference announcing Favre coming back, he backed out again, saying he's going to stay retired. 4. So now, after they've spent OTA's and mini-camps getting their players who want to be there up to speed, he says he wants to come back. After the Packers have most likely already allocated the cap space they got from his retiring to re-signing their own players and keeping their nucleus intact; now he wants to come back and is serious about it? Honestly, this whole situation looks like someone who was looking for a fresh start but just didn't want to look like the big jerk to the fans.

[scorpion]

[QUOTE=Imarevenant;475964]2. He's pulled the will he/won't he come back thing for like 3 years now; each time announcing his intentions to come back, right before training camp. This year though, when asked why he retired before the draft instead of asking for more time to make up his mind, he said that he felt pressure from the coach and ownership. Seriously, what did they do? Ask for a decision before the actual draft so they could determine what their needs were? Are we supposed to naively believe that they didn't ask the very same thing the 2 years prior, when Favre waited until just before training camp to announce that he'll be back? I don't buy it at all. If he needed more time, all he would have had to do was ask, he's Brett Freaking Favre![/QUOTE] I have a question about this since I've heard it several times. Was it the media asking the question and Brett refusing to answer it until the last minute? Or was it Brett telling the Packers he didn't know until training camp? I don't really follow football in the off-season so I'm honestly curious.

[Wallbanger]

And now Pennington has been released... [url]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8424488?MSNHPHMA[/url]

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=CQI13;475737]Hopefully the bad karma comes back to him. And I don't understand what the fans chanting "We want Brett" does to help any situation in GB. If you're a GB fan, don't you want Aaron Rodgers to do well? I don't get it.[/QUOTE] Uhh, you don't get fans wanting the [I]best player at a position[/I] to actually play the position? Let's be honest. Aaron Rodgers might be a great quarterback someday. Brett Favre is a great quarterback [B][I]right now[/I][/B]. Also, I really wish people would stop trying to insinuate that Rodgers outplayed Favre at any time in history. Please, if you know football and today's NFL, don't use a late season game with nothing at stake for at least one of the teams as a basis for any performance evaluation. Remember the Colts' undefeated streak a few years ago? When did that streak end? Why did that streak end? How much did Manning (the better one), Harrison, Wayne, Sanders, June, and Freeney play in the last game of the season? Seriously, once you've locked up a playoff spot and home field for at least one game, there's very little left to play for. Coaches are more likely to sit their stars (or play them sparingly) so they'll be available (read: not injured/burned out) for the important part of the season. And before anyone takes offense to the last sentence, yeah the playoffs are the important part of the season. The regular season is just jockeying for position. Ask the Patriots about that. The Chargers too, if you want to go back more than a year. [QUOTE=Tyler Gadzinski;475883]Yeah.. I like all the clauses with the trade.. Jets make playoffs, then Packers get 2nd Round pick. If Jets make the Superbowl, then Packers get 1st Round Pick. Then someone at work was telling me if Jets trade Favre to the Vikings then we get there 1st round picks for the next 3 years, or something like that. I don't know how true that part is though.[/QUOTE] Kinda. It's a poison pill measure. Basically, in order to prevent the Jets from doing what the Pack doesn't want them to do, they include a provision in the deal that if Minnesota gives the Jets an offer they can't refuse, the Jets have to pay more than they can justify (to their fans) for a 38-year old first ballot Hall of Famer. The deal could be balanced if the Vikes give the Jets three 1st round picks (in addition to the picks for Favre) but Minnesota's been burned twice in deals like that (what did the Raiders pay for Randy Moss again? How'd the Herschel Walker trade go?). They're not going to be burned again. [QUOTE=mike b;475944]I just have one thing to say to this whole thing.... Thank gawd he is with the jets now. Hey I'm a vikings fans and as much as i would like to see Brett in a vikings uniform i just cant see them giving up 1st rounders for a guy who is 38 yrs old and yes he may still have his arm but his legs are getting slower. I just did not want to see a repeat of hershall walker all over again. I remember that deal the vikings made with the cowboys to get him and look what happened Vikings still did not go anywhere and that stupid deal(amount of draft picks) led the cowboys to when the next 3 out of the next 4 Superbowl's. So goodbye Brett have fun at your new team[/QUOTE] To be fair, that trade was awesome at the time. Herschel was one of the top 5 backs in the league during a time when running the football was as revered as passing the ball is now. The Dickerson trade was worse because ED wasn't known as much more than a running back. He wasn't a threat out of the backfield or on returns like Herschel was. Besides that, the Vikings wouldn't have drafted who the Cowboys did, even if they still had the picks (look back at your team's rosters from that time period). Keep in mind, "the experts" said Emmitt was a reach at pick 17. A REACH!!! Yeah, I'm sure Blair Thomas was many times the back Emmitt was. :rolleyes: [QUOTE=Imarevenant;475964]Thing is though. Favre has made it clear he didn't want to be in Green Bay, if you read between the lines. 1. The day after he retired, his agent was asking teams if they had interest in Favre. Do you really think Brett Favre had no say in what his agent was doing? 2. He's pulled the will he/won't he come back thing for like 3 years now; each time announcing his intentions to come back, right before training camp. This year though, when asked why he retired before the draft instead of asking for more time to make up his mind, he said that he felt pressure from the coach and ownership. Seriously, what did they do? Ask for a decision before the actual draft so they could determine what their needs were? Are we supposed to naively believe that they didn't ask the very same thing the 2 years prior, when Favre waited until just before training camp to announce that he'll be back? I don't buy it at all. If he needed more time, all he would have had to do was ask, he's Brett Freaking Favre! 3. In June, two months after the draft, when rumors kept coming around about Favre wanting to come back, Ted Thompson and McCarthy talked to Favre, fully on board with him coming back to the team. This was after they spent 2 draft picks on Quarterbacks in order to replace him and give them some fallback if Rogers failed. And when it came time to the Packers wanting to have a press conference announcing Favre coming back, he backed out again, saying he's going to stay retired. 4. So now, after they've spent OTA's and mini-camps getting their players who want to be there up to speed, he says he wants to come back. After the Packers have most likely already allocated the cap space they got from his retiring to re-signing their own players and keeping their nucleus intact; now he wants to come back and is serious about it? Honestly, this whole situation looks like someone who was looking for a fresh start but just didn't want to look like the big jerk to the fans.[/QUOTE] First off, Brett didn't want to be in Green Bay anymore because.....the Packers didn't want him there anymore. When an icon of your franchise decides he wants to play again less than six months after retiring, most teams would jump for joy. But the Packers had already cast their lot with an unproven entity who had taken a grand total of ZERO meaningful NFL snaps. One thing I try to tell people and explain to them is that you can't just turn off the urge to play after playing since you were a minor! He's done the exact same thing every summer since he was like six years old: train for football season. Thirty two years of doing the exact same thing during a part of the year is hard to shake off. So when OTAs and training camp started to roll around, his body told him it was time to do that one thing. Sure, you hate it while you're doing it (I don't know a single player at any level who truly enjoys spring practice/training camp though they all realize why it's important), but you do it and after you're done, it's time for the real fun to begin. 1. Duh? He was pressured into making a decision. At that point of the year, unless you've won the big one, your body starts barkin' at you something awful. Every ache and pain you blocked out during the previous 20 weeks, comes rushing in to hit you like a runaway train. Ask Philip Rivers how he felt two weeks after the Chargers got ousted. (For those who might not know, Rivers played the entire playoff run with a torn ACL) So a person asking a player to decide whether he's retiring less than 90 days after the season ended, is going to get a significantly different answer than he would've gotten in late April/early May. What the hell was the rush anyway? They had their QB of the future already on the roster! 2. What position did the Packers draft with their second pick in the second round of this year's draft? Why, it was a quarterback, wasn't it? Second round pick is like what first round picks used to be before rookie salaries got so out of hand. So while teams are always willing to dump first round picks, they hoard second through fourth rounders. Also, since I've had people try to say Brohm is "roster fodder", what round was Tom Brady drafted in again? Brian Brohm was drafted specifically to be Aaron Rodgers' backup and possible successor. That pick wouldn't have been made if Favre had not retired. So yes, they pressured Brett for a decision to decide on what their team needs were going to be. 3 & 4: Gee, let's castigate Michael Strahan too! I mean, look at how him doing almost the exact same thing (except he didn't officially retire. Just sat out of training camp) destroyed the Giants season. I mean, he obviously wasn't on the same page as the team! Honestly, though the Jets will still suck (look at their receivers. Where's the speed?), I'm very much looking forward to watching the Pack crash and burn. Just like I'm very much looking forward to watching the Ravens crash & burn if they don't do the right thing after this season. (The right thing = re-signing/extending Ray Lewis) My favorite team didn't dream of pulling this kinda crap with Elway, who incidentally, did the exact same thing, just not publicly. The Broncos let [B][I]him[/I][/B] decide, as a sign of respect for all he'd done for the team and the community.

[CQI13]

While Brett did have a good year last year (even if we overlook his interception that cost them a trip to the Super Bowl), the two years before were atrocious, throwing 9 interceptions more than touchdowns. There are ways of handling the situation (and neither side did it right, by the way), but look back at the Dolphins with Marino - he didn't want to retire either, he wanted to go to Minnesota to go play with Randy Moss & Chris Carter. But it wasn't handled wrong. You bring up Elway, and like you said it was in private. Why does Favre get a pass on this? He's just like Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens. Great at what they do, but incredibly selfish. We kills Chad and T.O. for dancing in the end zone, but Favre looks like just as much of a fool jumping on teammates or picking up teammates. And people seem to forget that he meddled in Javon Walker's contract negotiations (when Walker had grossly overperformed his contract - I don't personally advocate being able to re-negotiate a deal, since the team can't come back for its money if you underperform). Combine that with his personal demons, and if it was anyone else (or simply black) he would not be the patorn saint of everything that is good and holy about the NFL. And don't forget the fact that Favre specifically stated that he wouldn't mentor Rodgers. Go back a few years when Rodgers was first drafted. Favre had been on the fence since then. And he always made his decision AFTER the Draft. So let's say they pass up on Rodgers (who slid to them at 22 or somewhere around there - much like Brady Quinn with the Browns). Rodgers was originally expected to go in the Top 10 if not the Top 5. So again, they pass up on him, and Brett retires at that point. As a team, they have a responsibility to be prepared. You want to say that the Favre-less Packers won't win the Super Bowl this year? I would almost guarantee that even with Favre they wouldn't win the Super Bowl this year...as "great" as he is, he'd throw a pick-six at the worst possible time.

[Imarevenant]

[QUOTE=Remianen;476028] First off, Brett didn't want to be in Green Bay anymore because.....the Packers didn't want him there anymore. [B]When an icon of your franchise decides he wants to play again less than six months after retiring, most teams would jump for joy.[/B] But the Packers had already cast their lot with an unproven entity who had taken a grand total of ZERO meaningful NFL snaps. One thing I try to tell people and explain to them is that you can't just turn off the urge to play after playing since you were a minor! He's done the exact same thing every summer since he was like six years old: train for football season. Thirty two years of doing the exact same thing during a part of the year is hard to shake off. So when OTAs and training camp started to roll around, his body told him it was time to do that one thing. Sure, you hate it while you're doing it (I don't know a single player at any level who truly enjoys spring practice/training camp though they all realize why it's important), but you do it and after you're done, it's time for the real fun to begin. [/QUOTE] [B]I got the dates wrong in my original post. However, in late March when Brett said he wanted to come out of retirement, the Packers did exactly that. They flew down, met with him, got everything prepared to announce that he was coming out of retirement and was going to re-join the team. And then two days later Brett, said no, and decided to stay retired. They wanted him back, they did; it’s a fact! They were prepared to bring him back to the team as if he never announced his retirement. They did everything they could up to that point to welcome him back to the team, and he didn’t want to come back. Even though his agent was still “putting out feelers” to teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Ravens[/B] And yes, I understand the body aching and the not wanting to deal with day to day preparations when you finally get that break from the day to day grind. But this isn’t some doe eyed rookie we are talking about. He’s played, what, 16 seasons in the NFL, 275 consecutive games without missing a start. I’m pretty sure he was prepared for the aches and pains of the off-season, by this point of his career. You can’t really say that the tiredness brought on by the long NFL season crept up on him and took him by surprise. [QUOTE=Remianen;476028] 1. Duh? He was pressured into making a decision. At that point of the year, unless you've won the big one, your body starts barkin' at you something awful. Every ache and pain you blocked out during the previous 20 weeks, comes rushing in to hit you like a runaway train. Ask Philip Rivers how he felt two weeks after the Chargers got ousted. (For those who might not know, Rivers played the entire playoff run with a torn ACL) So a person asking a player to decide whether he's retiring less than 90 days after the season ended, is going to get a significantly different answer than he would've gotten in late April/early May. [B]What the hell was the rush anyway? They had their QB of the future already on the roster![/B] [/QUOTE] Who exactly was he pressured by? He was pressured because The Packers asked for a response before the draft? Were the Packers really stepping over the line by asking this? Especially when they had asked this very same thing for two years prior; and in those two years when Favre asked for more time to make the decision they granted it to him. So really, where was this big pressure coming from? I’m sorry I’m not buying Favre’s story here, in his interview he said he was pressured and needed more time. But the fact of the matter is, the two years prior to this one, when he needed more time to make the decision all he had to do was ask and it was granted. I’ve also heard interviews with Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy, and both said all he had to do was ask for the extra time to make the decision this season and they would have given it to him, just as they have done in the past. Conflicting reports; big surprise, huh, lol; but: For my money, I’m more willing to believe the Packers, who were ready to bring him back to the team, just a mere month before the draft only to have Favre change his mind again. They showed they were more than happy to have Favre return as the QB for the team, but nothing about these events has shown me that Favre wanted to return to the team. [QUOTE=Remianen;476028] 2. What position did the Packers draft with their second pick in the second round of this year's draft? Why, it was a quarterback, wasn't it? Second round pick is like what first round picks used to be before rookie salaries got so out of hand. So while teams are always willing to dump first round picks, they hoard second through fourth rounders. Also, since I've had people try to say Brohm is "roster fodder", what round was Tom Brady drafted in again? Brian Brohm was drafted specifically to be Aaron Rodgers' backup and possible successor. That pick wouldn't have been made if Favre had not retired. So yes, they pressured Brett for a decision to decide on what their team needs were going to be. [/QUOTE] So after they made the effort to bring Favre back to the team and he backed out, what were they supposed to do? Not draft a QB, in the event that Favre changed his mind yet again? Ignore the fact that their starting QB has no real game experience and has suffered two injuries in spite of having relatively no playing time? They were covering their bases, which is why they asked for a response before the draft as they had the two seasons prior. You can call it pressure, but it wasn’t real pressure, considering they were (and have shown to be) more than willing to give Favre more time to make the decision about retirement. And given that he asked for and got extra time to make the decision in the past. All he had to do was ask for more time this season and he didn't. [QUOTE=Remianen;476028] 3 & 4: Gee, let's castigate Michael Strahan too! I mean, look at how him doing almost the exact same thing (except he didn't officially retire. Just sat out of training camp) destroyed the Giants season. I mean, he obviously wasn't on the same page as the team! [/QUOTE] Those are two completely different situations. You even mention why, Strahan never officially retired, meaning the team didn’t actually move on without him, and had to account for his roster position and salary cap hit at all times. What Favre did was release Green Bay of his salary cap hit, and open up a roster position, which they had to fill. And although it’s a nice cheeky comment about how Strahan “destroyed the Giants season,” it has no bearing in this situation. Once Favre retired the team had to think about moving on, which they did, although when they thought there was a chance he wanted back in, they were more than accepting of him only he backed out again. So they moved on. Filled his roster spot and made plans for the extra cap space. Yes they have/had 30+ mil in cap space, but you show me a team that sits on cap space with no future plans, and I’ll show you a team at the bottom of their conference. To me it looks like he wanted to save face and not explicitly say he wanted out of Green Bay, for fear of tarnishing any legacy he built in the city. So he “retired” while putting out “feelers” (the very next day) to see if anyone would be interested in him. When the Packers showed they’d take him back, he decided to stay retired. It wasn’t until the Packers hit the point of no return, drafting to fill a need created through his retirement, and setting plans to resign their players, that he really started to hit the “I want to come back” campaign hard. You more than anyone else on this message board, know that sports is also about “Business,” and the Packers ended up having to make a business decision once they decided to move on from Favre. Notice it wasn’t until the Packers made all the decisions to move on with their team from Favre, in a Business sense that he was strong in his decision to come back. I don’t think that was an accident, in the least. [QUOTE=Remianen;476028]Honestly, though the Jets will still suck (look at their receivers. Where's the speed?), I'm very much looking forward to watching the Pack crash and burn. Just like I'm very much looking forward to watching the Ravens crash & burn if they don't do the right thing after this season. (The right thing = re-signing/extending Ray Lewis) [/QUOTE] Well we agree there, The Jets are probably the worst team for Favre, their offense is much more rigid than Green Bay’s and not as conducive to the “gunslinger” mentality he brings. Their line hasn’t had any time to work together and besides Laverneous they don’t have many threats. Although I like Thomas Jones, but with the Line questions, it’s tough to say how the run game will do. Compile this with a coaching staff that is still trying to get the defense settled into their philosophy and I see a bad season for The Jets.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=CQI13;476220]While Brett did have a good year last year (even if we overlook his interception that cost them a trip to the Super Bowl), the two years before were atrocious, throwing 9 interceptions more than touchdowns. There are ways of handling the situation (and neither side did it right, by the way), but look back at the Dolphins with Marino - he didn't want to retire either, he wanted to go to Minnesota to go play with Randy Moss & Chris Carter. But it wasn't handled wrong. You bring up Elway, and like you said it was in private. Why does Favre get a pass on this? He's just like Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens. Great at what they do, but incredibly selfish. We kills Chad and T.O. for dancing in the end zone, but Favre looks like just as much of a fool jumping on teammates or picking up teammates. And people seem to forget that he meddled in Javon Walker's contract negotiations (when Walker had grossly overperformed his contract - I don't personally advocate being able to re-negotiate a deal, since the team can't come back for its money if you underperform). Combine that with his personal demons, and if it was anyone else (or simply black) he would not be the patorn saint of everything that is good and holy about the NFL. And don't forget the fact that Favre specifically stated that he wouldn't mentor Rodgers. Go back a few years when Rodgers was first drafted. Favre had been on the fence since then. And he always made his decision AFTER the Draft. So let's say they pass up on Rodgers (who slid to them at 22 or somewhere around there - much like Brady Quinn with the Browns). Rodgers was originally expected to go in the Top 10 if not the Top 5. So again, they pass up on him, and Brett retires at that point. As a team, they have a responsibility to be prepared. You want to say that the Favre-less Packers won't win the Super Bowl this year? I would almost guarantee that even with Favre they wouldn't win the Super Bowl this year...as "great" as he is, he'd throw a pick-six at the worst possible time.[/QUOTE] I'd like to ask you a question. The two previous years you mention, who were Brett Favre's top receivers? Now, last year, who were his top receivers? You can judge a quarterback solely on his stats without taking into account unimportant things like his offensive line and receivers and the quality of the running backs behind him, but that only works if you're judging a spread option or run & shoot quarterback. [QUOTE=Imarevenant;476444][B]I got the dates wrong in my original post. However, in late March when Brett said he wanted to come out of retirement, the Packers did exactly that. They flew down, met with him, got everything prepared to announce that he was coming out of retirement and was going to re-join the team. And then two days later Brett, said no, and decided to stay retired. They wanted him back, they did; it’s a fact! They were prepared to bring him back to the team as if he never announced his retirement. They did everything they could up to that point to welcome him back to the team, and he didn’t want to come back. Even though his agent was still “putting out feelers” to teams like Philly, Minnesota, and the Ravens[/B][/QUOTE] Actually, the only thing known about that conversation was the Packers version of things. What wasn't touched on is what Brett demanded in order to come out of retirement. Remember, it's not unusual for star players (especially quarterbacks) to make personnel demands. The only thing that came out at that time was that Brett decided to stay retired, not why. And actually, Philly wasn't one of the teams Bus was sending feelers to. It's always been Minnesota, Baltimore, and Tampa Bay (especially once Jeff Garcia started barking about his contract). [QUOTE=Imarevenant;476444]And yes, I understand the body aching and the not wanting to deal with day to day preparations when you finally get that break from the day to day grind. But this isn’t some doe eyed rookie we are talking about. He’s played, what, 16 seasons in the NFL, 275 consecutive games without missing a start. I’m pretty sure he was prepared for the aches and pains of the off-season, by this point of his career. You can’t really say that the tiredness brought on by the long NFL season crept up on him and took him by surprise.[/QUOTE] Uh uh, you don't get it. It's easier to quit when your legacy is set. If he was a rookie, he COULDN'T retire because he wouldn't have accomplished anything. Brett already has a ring, he's guaranteed first ballot Hall of Fame, he took Marino's records and flushed them, he's done it all. At that point, that's when you really start to think that maybe there's nothing left to accomplish, nothing left to prove. Again, refer to Michael Strahan. He had the records, he had the legacy, he had the reputation....but he had no ring. Once he got that last thing, he bounced. [QUOTE=Imarevenant;476444]Who exactly was he pressured by? He was pressured because The Packers asked for a response before the draft? Were the Packers really stepping over the line by asking this? Especially when they had asked this very same thing for two years prior; and in those two years when Favre asked for more time to make the decision they granted it to him. So really, where was this big pressure coming from? I’m sorry I’m not buying Favre’s story here, in his interview he said he was pressured and needed more time. But the fact of the matter is, the two years prior to this one, when he needed more time to make the decision all he had to do was ask and it was granted. I’ve also heard interviews with Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy, and both said all he had to do was ask for the extra time to make the decision this season and they would have given it to him, just as they have done in the past.[/QUOTE] So just because they said it, that makes it true? The Jets said publicly that they had no interest in Favre. Were they telling the truth? I'm inclined to side with the player in this because the organization has more to lose than the player does so they HAVE to try to save face. Ted Thompson looks like a moron and he's going to look even worse once the season's done. Keep in mind how iconic Favre is/was in Green Bay. If the fans felt the team was throwing him away after the season they had last year, there would be a serious revolt during the shareholders meeting (since, as you recall, the fans own the team). [QUOTE=Imarevenant;476444]So after they made the effort to bring Favre back to the team and he backed out, what were they supposed to do? Not draft a QB, in the event that Favre changed his mind yet again? Ignore the fact that their starting QB has no real game experience and has suffered two injuries in spite of having relatively no playing time? They were covering their bases, which is why they asked for a response before the draft as they had the two seasons prior. You can call it pressure, but it wasn’t real pressure, considering they were (and have shown to be) more than willing to give Favre more time to make the decision about retirement. And given that he asked for and got extra time to make the decision in the past.[/QUOTE] Uhhh, if you're concerned about your starting QB not having any real game experience, you generally try to go out and get a QB with real game experience. They had one (one of the best of all time) and they treated him like he hadn't done a thing for the organization. Can I ask you a question? Besides Manning (either of them), name a first round QB taken in the last 16 years that has turned out to be a runaway success. I can name at least three that were drafted near the end of the draft (or not drafted at all!) who fit that bill. Two of them have rings, even. Brady, Warner, Delhomme, Bulger, need I continue? My point is, it's not necessary to draft a QB high in order to get a good to great talent. Most started could care less who the team drafts in rounds four to seven. But when you draft someone in rounds one or two, that player was drafted to START (especially with QBs and running backs). My team has produced 1,000 yard rushers with soup cans. Give them a back with some actual talent and they do even better (hi TD). NONE of those backs were drafted in the first round and the one that was drafted in the second round was quickly dumped on the Lions. Now, Jon Gruden has proven able to turn less talented QBs into stars (see Gannon, Rich; Johnson, Brad). Give him someone with some talent and.....damn. There were six defensive ends drafted before Osi Umenyiora. Now, were those six DEs better than Osi? Nope! Point is, the Pack didn't need Favre to make a decision in order to determine their draft focus, unless their scouts sucked. Covering their bases would've had them take John David Booty late instead of Brian Brohm early. You mean to tell me they were so concerned about their QB situation that they needed to spend a second round pick on it? Gee, what a vote of confidence for Aaron Rodgers, especially considering how many holes they have on defense (quick! Name the backups to Charles Woodson and Al Harris!). [QUOTE=Imarevenant;476444]You more than anyone else on this message board, know that sports is also about “Business,” and the Packers ended up having to make a business decision once they decided to move on from Favre. Notice it wasn’t until the Packers made all the decisions to move on with their team from Favre, in a Business sense that he was strong in his decision to come back. I don’t think that was an accident, in the least.[/QUOTE] Yup! And business states you don't give up your only marquee player for three pieces of silver. Go check and see what the record is for transactions for NFLshop.com. Whose jersey is that? Now, name someone on the Packers with that kind of drawing power. I'll wait. So now one of the teams that played in the conference championship game last season, is entering the season with a quarterback who has not taken a single snap in a meaningful NFL game. Oh and by the way, go back and look at the tape of Rodgers vs the Cowboys. Who did he target and beat repeatedly? That's right, Roy Williams. In case you're not aware, Roy Williams couldn't cover a twin size bed if you gave him a king size comforter. There's a reason the Cowboys felt it was so important to re-sign Ken Hamlin. Every team needs at least one safety who isn't completely useless in coverage. Now, if you were talking about the Eagles and Brian Dawkins (who is obviously fading), I'd completely agree and take the team's side. But you're talking about a player who has led a team for over 15 years and had one of his best years last year. You're talking about the only drawing card a team has to speak of. This isn't the Patriots trading Wes Welker or the Steelers trading Willie Parker. This is the Packers trading their [B][I]only[/I][/B] superstar. Here's something else to consider: Aaron Rodgers has missed more games due to injury than Brett Favre....and Rodgers was the BACKUP! So he gets some live action filling in and goes down like a busted sack of potatoes. Again, why would you choose him over an iron man? I don't get it. Who gives the Packers the best chance to win games? You can talk about that interception in the NFC title game until the cows come home. He took a shot (ill-advised, but he's made those kinds of plays successfully before) and it didn't work out. I'd rather have a Favre at QB than a Grossman or Boller or even Dilfer or Vince Young or Schaub or Pennington or Jackson or Croyle or Rodgers. Then again, I can see why the Packers aren't as concerned with having stars on the team. The NFL's communistic profit sharing system has no real incentive for one team to outsell the others, as far as merchandise is concerned. So they have to find other ways to make money outside of the league (like the Jets & Giants with PSLs, the Cowboys with PSLs and advertising, etc). Seriously, anyone who thinks Favre's pass was so horrible, go back and watch film of other iconic plays in NFL history. "The Drive" and "The Fumble" are two that I've watched extensively (for obvious reasons) and there are at least three plays in each that would be considered "ill advised". In the latter, Jeremiah Castille was supposed to press Webster Slaughter but he backed off into what was basically zone coverage.....near the goal line ffs! Of course, no one castigates him for doing so given what happened as a result.