Personal - Mod Worker area

[djthefunkchris]

What I'm concerned about here is the personal effects these things have in game. I've run a couple of tests, and come up with a few theories, but of course they can be only thoeries without complete testing over and over of which I don't have the time to do really. So here is my thoughts as well as problems. When simming a few mods I've been testing out, I've noticed some young deaths... Not 18 or 20 year olds, but the 30 to mid 30's is what bother's me. Further investigation leads me to believe this is because of Personal extra's put in by the Modder (be it myself or someone else), causing these young deaths. An overdose or whatever is not what I'm talking about. I mean just short life spans, and when simmed, seem to give similar results in half a dozen games. Since these stats are not overly huge effects on the persons life (around 40% or less), I wouldn't think it would be a problem. In fact, some that are even heavier (around 50%+) don't seem to have the same effects because, and here is what is bothering me, they only have ONE or TWO area's that are bad (as compared to someone with six bad personal extra's, that are set around 10 to 40%). This leads me to believe that perhaps the AI checks these things in sections. So someone with six bad traits, will be checked six times instead of 1 or 2 times. IF this is correct, it's pretty important when making a believeable mod, in that someone that is a light drinker, soft drugs once in a while, smokes, might have dipped into steriods a time or three, will have a much higher mortality rate then someone that is 80% into hard drugs. Weather or not that's what is intended, is not the point to this post. I would like relevant feedback, see if maybe I'm the only one that is seeing this (and thus I'm totally wrong, and what I'm seeing is just a fluke of my games), or if it's definately something along the lines I have explained, so as I can adjust the percent of the personal extra's to make a more believable scenario.

[sabataged]

Nice research man. I've never really looked into it much but it looks like you have done your homework.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=sabataged;476822]Nice research man. I've never really looked into it much but it looks like you have done your homework.[/QUOTE] I'm only speculating, I have no idea if it's accurate the way I described it or not. I would like confirmation one way or the other on this, but not sure if that's possible.

[Vladamire Dracos]

The Personal settings are not for someone who has "dipped into steriods a time or three" or is a "Light Drinker", it is for people who use (or are religious enough) for it to effect their performance. Even a very low setting is meant to be serious enough to effect performance.

[scorpion]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;476962]The Personal settings are not for someone who has "dipped into steriods a time or three" or is a "Light Drinker", it is for people who use (or are religious enough) for it to effect their performance. Even a very low setting is meant to be serious enough to effect performance.[/QUOTE] Which if this is true, answers my question, as I have noticed in threads people mentioning people dying who I had no idea even used. Are mod makers going overboard like they did with relationships?

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Vladamire Dracos;476962]The Personal settings are not for someone who has "dipped into steriods a time or three" or is a "Light Drinker", it is for people who use (or are religious enough) for it to effect their performance. Even a very low setting is meant to be serious enough to effect performance.[/QUOTE] These are the things I want to know for sure on. If this is so, then someone that drinks at the holidays, or even on their days off, are not people that should be used for Personal. Only diehard alcoholics, and then scale it in that range? This is important to know. People need to know how to scale them or otherwise.... [QUOTE=scorpion;476968]Which if this is true, answers my question, as I have noticed in threads people mentioning people dying who I had no idea even used. Are mod makers going overboard like they did with relationships?[/QUOTE] What scorpion here says is accurate. We don't need RVD at 40 or even 10% in the soft drug area, if it doesn't effect his everyday life. We don't need someone like Cena up at 50% if he's never been caught on steriods. Etc. People like Batista and Undertaker who have not been effected by the use (if they use, I know some would categorize them as heavy user's, other's none). These are things we need to know for sure, so that we can make a believable mod within' the game mechanics. Does the AI check for each one of them seperately, when doing the check. And does someone that has dipped into six of them, have six times less mortality rate then someone that has been in one of them, although the percent is much less on the one with six instead of one?

[zeus9800]

I can't speak to what your testing says, I haven't gotten to the testing phase yet, I'm still working on editing to get things right. But personally I think it's just a matter of opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most mod-makers are doing it, first and foremost, for their own use, which means it should be their discretion. On mine, if somebody is known to drink or do drugs, no way are they getting a zero. I don't care if it's just something where they said on their myspace page that they drink. I give them a 1%. My reasoning being that it makes them more susceptible to a stronger addiction in the future, which is appropriate. What other situation would lead you to say that somebody is 1% addicted? Do you know anybody who is an alcoholic only 1% of the time? Maybe it's me "not understanding how it's supposed to work", but know that's how it should work and I'm fairly confident that's how it will be set up in a great game like this. I may be in for a surprise when I get to the testing part, but I'll consider that a problem with the game, not the mod. But since it's not something I really plan on releasing, it doesn't matter if anyone agrees with it or not. Because it's for my use. Even if I did release it, it's still for my use first and foremost, so honestly it still doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I guess things could end up pretty interesting when things get to that point, but I'll be very disappointed if deaths are occuring at an extremely high rate regardless of the personal settings. I also would venture a guess that it might have something to do with how many workers you have. If you have an abundance of workers, you'll probably see them dying more frequently. If you have a lower amount, not so much. There are actually going to be a lot more people that use then we're even aware of, so there is no way it can be 100% accurate, a lot of it is just common sense. I don't need John Cena to get caught using to know he is. There's a reason why he hasn't been and never will be. Triple H is never going to be caught. Batista is never going to be caught. Undertaker would never get caught even though I'm not aware of him doing anything he shouldn't be. Those guys could snort coke in the middle of the ring and not get busted, so if that's what you're going by, that's not very realistic IMO.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=zeus9800;476999]I don't need John Cena to get caught using to know he is.[/QUOTE] Everything I've heard is that he isn't. He's on a 25,000 calorie per day diet and spends eight hours a day in the gym. The guy's huge, yeah, but it's possible to get that big without chemical enhancement if you're willing to put in an obscene amount of work. Cena is.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=scorpion;476968]Which if this is true, answers my question, as I have noticed in threads people mentioning people dying who I had no idea even used. Are mod makers going overboard like they did with relationships?[/QUOTE] I remember hearing about a recently released mod in which a drug test in WWE would get about a dozen positives a week. So I'm inclined to say the answer is yes.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=zeus9800;476999]I can't speak to what your testing says, I haven't gotten to the testing phase yet, I'm still working on editing to get things right. But personally I think it's just a matter of opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most mod-makers are doing it, first and foremost, for their own use, which means it should be their discretion. On mine, if somebody is known to drink or do drugs, no way are they getting a zero. I don't care if it's just something where they said on their myspace page that they drink. I give them a 1%. My reasoning being that it makes them more susceptible to a stronger addiction in the future, which is appropriate. What other situation would lead you to say that somebody is 1% addicted? Do you know anybody who is an alcoholic only 1% of the time? Maybe it's me "not understanding how it's supposed to work", but know that's how it should work and I'm fairly confident that's how it will be set up in a great game like this. I may be in for a surprise when I get to the testing part, but I'll consider that a problem with the game, not the mod. But since it's not something I really plan on releasing, it doesn't matter if anyone agrees with it or not. Because it's for my use. Even if I did release it, it's still for my use first and foremost, so honestly it still doesn't matter what anyone thinks. I guess things could end up pretty interesting when things get to that point, but I'll be very disappointed if deaths are occuring at an extremely high rate regardless of the personal settings. I also would venture a guess that it might have something to do with how many workers you have. If you have an abundance of workers, you'll probably see them dying more frequently. If you have a lower amount, not so much. There are actually going to be a lot more people that use then we're even aware of, so there is no way it can be 100% accurate, a lot of it is just common sense. I don't need John Cena to get caught using to know he is. There's a reason why he hasn't been and never will be. Triple H is never going to be caught. Batista is never going to be caught. Undertaker would never get caught even though I'm not aware of him doing anything he shouldn't be. Those guys could snort coke in the middle of the ring and not get busted, so if that's what you're going by, that's not very realistic IMO.[/QUOTE] I'm not a tester for your game, that I know of:confused:. You sound upset, and my post is not intended in anyway, form or shape to upset anyone. I just want to know how we (as in the people I'm working with) should utilize these settings. This is because I do strive for a realistic world. How would you feel if about a dozen worker's died in a mod you tested, in a five year period, and all 30 to 35? Would you think that's the game's fault, or something we are missunderstanding about the game mechanics? Far as we are concerned, we are toning some of the worker's down a bit, to get a more "REALISTIC" mod. People that are still wrestling today at age 40 or 50, shouldn't die unexpectedly, at age 30, realistically. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a fluke incident here and there, but a dozen pluss people is a bit more then a fluke, wouldn't you say? None of these are your mod, and I can boldly say that the mods I'm working on our for the community, as a gift of a game that we love. Not just for personal use. So it's critical to me, to have these things in place the way the game developer meant them to be used, instead of how "WE" feel they should be used.

[zeus9800]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;477072]I'm not a tester for your game, that I know of:confused:. You sound upset, and my post is not intended in anyway, form or shape to upset anyone. I just want to know how we (as in the people I'm working with) should utilize these settings. This is because I do strive for a realistic world. How would you feel if about a dozen worker's died in a mod you tested, in a five year period, and all 30 to 35? Would you think that's the game's fault, or something we are missunderstanding about the game mechanics? Far as we are concerned, we are toning some of the worker's down a bit, to get a more "REALISTIC" mod. People that are still wrestling today at age 40 or 50, shouldn't die unexpectedly, at age 30, realistically. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind a fluke incident here and there, but a dozen pluss people is a bit more then a fluke, wouldn't you say? None of these are your mod, and I can boldly say that the mods I'm working on our for the community, as a gift of a game that we love. Not just for personal use. So it's critical to me, to have these things in place the way the game developer meant them to be used, instead of how "WE" feel they should be used.[/QUOTE] I'm a little upset that the possibility that what I view as "realistic" setting would cause "unrealistic" results. That would really be quite upsetting to me if that turned out to be the case. There are no testers for my mod, as I said it's not even something I plan on releasing. If I get a finished product I like, that may be a possibility, who knows. When I talked about testing I just meant testing it on my own before immersing myself in a game. A dozen people between 30 and 35 in a 5 year period? I would say that is maybe slightly excessive, but nothing to panic about. Again, it also depends on how many workers you have. If you have 5,000 workers, not a huge deal. If you have 500, very big deal. [QUOTE]So it's critical to me, to have these things in place the way the game developer meant them to be used, instead of how "WE" feel they should be used.[/QUOTE] I wanted to single out this part. I honestly can't speak to how Adam meant them to be used. But to me, if someone uses steroids, on a more than once basis, they deserve at least a small percentage. If you drink, you deserve a small percentage. I'm not talking about the occasional drink. If someone were to ask me if I drink, the answer is no, but in truth there are some exceptions. But it's not a regular occurrence. If I had a beer every day, guess what? I'm a drinker. Maybe just a 1% drinker, but a drinker nonetheless. If I don't drink at all during the week, but get hammered every weekend, guess what? I'm a drinker. Again, even if it's 1%. There is a range from 0% to 100%, to me that means that if you do drink regularly, you deserve some percentage. Otherwise, why do you need such a large range? From the help file it says that [quote]the higher the value, the more impact the item has on a workers life[/quote]. Well, if you drink every day I'd say it has at least a 1% impact on your life. It also makes you more likely to develop a stronger addiction, just like it does in real life. To me, it sounds like that's exactly how it was designed. Obviously too many deaths would be a problem that needs to be addressed somehow, but to me that might be more a problem with the game engine rather than the mods. Just my opinion of course. And yeah, it might necessitate changing some of the settings later on to compensate for it. That's something I'll have to address when I get to that point. I'm actually glad you brought this up though, it gives me something to keep a close eye on down the line.

[djthefunkchris]

For the proper stats, I will tell you that its around 2k workers. Plenty of older worker's still around, nothing going wrong. My thing is, the deaths in the tests are 30 to 35 primarily, with a few older... However, there was no deaths over 40. Just to make clear what I'm worried about. EDIT: I don't know if Cena is on Steriods or not, but he was a bodybuilder. I doubt he is on them now, but I know Bodybuilder's tend to be on them. I also heard there is a huge increase of woman using Steriods in all forms of sports (obviously bodybuilding, but my concern is wrestling, of which I heard quite a bit more then people would think are definately on them). Here is Cena, bodybuilding: [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/adhesion/CneaSteroids.jpg[/IMG] More Recent: [IMG]http://www.johncena4u.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/john-cena-wallpapers-124.jpg[/IMG]