Troy Tornado?

[cmbell22]

Any ideas what to do with him when he comes back? If anyone would like to share what they did with him, I would be interested in hearing. Thanks!

[cappyboy]

You can decide whether he should be credible on the matter or be a secret partner to the Syndicate trying to tear the rebellion down. But assuming I kept the TCW mess going, I'd be inclined to have him come back and start decrying to various and sundry that the only force seemingly willing or able to counter the Syndicate was all getting loudly booed at this time last year. How can you really trust Golden and Baine and whoever the third idiot is? TCW's been turned into such a mess this year.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;477281]TCW's been turned into such a mess this year.[/QUOTE] You say that like it wasn't intentional.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;477285]You say that like it wasn't intentional.[/QUOTE] Intentional or not, I say it like it's the annoyance that it is. :)

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;477287]Intentional or not, I say it like it's the annoyance that it is. :)[/QUOTE] How is it an annoyance?

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=foolinc;477289]How is it an annoyance?[/QUOTE] In 07 TCW was pretty compelling. You had a national promotion with a decent roster but you still had holes to fill and could shape those holes to your will pretty well. In 08, those obvious holes have been filled for you. Guys have been brought in from DAVE who don't (to me) seem to relate at all because of the collapse. Ditto Edd Stone. I know he had to end up somewhere else for new feature demonstration purposes. But I still struggle to slot him as well. Talent like Rocky Golden who needed to dry up and blow away are still present. You have completely unnecessary new people like Jasmine Saunders taking up slots they shouldn't have gotten. In short, it seems like all the work has been done for me this year and in ways I wouldn't have approved to start with. The fun (for me) has been sucked out of them. And I don't have it in me to fix up a functional 07 data to eridicate all these frustrations for myself. Just terribly frustrating for me to deal with TCW 08. Now with that said, can we please get this guy some other approaches to Tornado so my personal pet peeves don't completely hijack and sidetrack this thread? I know I'm speaking for myself and not the original poster with all this. I don't want to be the reason this gets locked on him.

[TEWFan]

Ok, I really understand what you mean with the mess, but I think it's fun to try and fix it. Anyway, this is what I did. He came back as a special guest of Tommy Cornell and they extended an invitation for him to join The Syndicate. He turned them down and got beaten badly, which turned him face. He went on to try and reform Painful Procedure and sort of did. This lead to a "Wargames" Match between Tornado, Ronnie V.Pain, Randall Hopkirk and Billy Jack Shearer (with new member of PP Stevie Grayson , who was supposed to be their keyboard player). Of course, it was all a farce with the other members of PP turning on him. I know you think this is all messy and it was, but it was part of a bigger deal, a roster clean-up of sorts. Tornado swore revenge on the former members of PP. He defeated Hopkirk, Billy Jack and Ronnie V. in "Loser Leaves Town" Matches. That allowed me to fire all three of them (although in reality I kept Ronnie V. under contract and sent him to development and plan to re-debut him under a new character at some point). On the other hand, Grayson was brought in as a new member of The Syndicate, using his former partnership with Wolf Hawkins as a catalyst and also under the guise that he was the one who "organized" the Painful Procedure turn by messing with the heads of the other members and getting them to go against Tornado. This afforded me the chance to do some roster clean-up, got Tornado back into shape and ready for a long program with Cornell and returned (albeit briefly) Hawkins and Grayson as a team to feud with The New Wave when they took the belts from the Machines.

[Lisbon Treat]

I think Shameless Poster is right, the mess seems intentional so you can have fun sorting it out. At the start of the game TCW's on the verge of falling to Cult so my assumption was that The Syndicate wasn't working and was probably a Cornell ego trip. As well as the uneasy turns of Ghenghis and Tyson it also throws up gameplay problems like having belts on Wolf and The Machines when they don't really need them. My overall impression of TCW is that it's stuck between being a Hollywierd hangover and a plaything for Tommy Cornell. Booking it out of that rut is the fun in TCW. In my own game it's taken nearly two years of booking to get out of the mess. In my game I just had Troy come back as the stepping-stone heel for faces to feud with on their way to Wolf and Tommy. He's a great against pretty much anyone and doesn't complain about being jobbed so he's perfect for that role. Of course eventually you can face turn him but for his immediate return I think he's best being a solid upper-mid heel.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Lisbon Treat;477306]I think Shameless Poster is right[/quote] Always am. :) [quote]In my game I just had Troy come back as the stepping-stone heel for faces to feud with on their way to Wolf and Tommy. He's a great against pretty much anyone and doesn't complain about being jobbed so he's perfect for that role. Of course eventually you can face turn him but for his immediate return I think he's best being a solid upper-mid heel.[/QUOTE] It used to be that I couldn't stand Troy Tornado because I had trouble pushing a guy who, despite being in his twenties, looked like Paul Giamatti. But I realized just today that he's supposed to be sort of a stand-in for Christian Cage, minus the legendary tag team run. You can do about anything with the guy and he's well-rounded enough that he'll bounce back from your worse decisions.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Lisbon Treat;477306]I think Shameless Poster is right, the mess seems intentional so you can have fun sorting it out. At the start of the game TCW's on the verge of falling to Cult so my assumption was that The Syndicate wasn't working and was probably a Cornell ego trip. As well as the uneasy turns of Ghenghis and Tyson it also throws up gameplay problems like having belts on Wolf and The Machines when they don't really need them. My overall impression of TCW is that it's stuck between being a Hollywierd hangover and a plaything for Tommy Cornell. Booking it out of that rut is the fun in TCW. In my own game it's taken nearly two years of booking to get out of the mess. In my game I just had Troy come back as the stepping-stone heel for faces to feud with on their way to Wolf and Tommy. He's a great against pretty much anyone and doesn't complain about being jobbed so he's perfect for that role. Of course eventually you can face turn him but for his immediate return I think he's best being a solid upper-mid heel.[/QUOTE] And you know here's the irony of what you're saying. If I lived in the C-Verse and were watching TCW on my TV, I'd be really pumped up about all the changes. I'd be curious to see how all the new talent meshed together. But as a booker playing it in a game, no thank you. I had a pretty good take on them for the 07 version and sat on it to see if I could get deeper traction in 08. Incidentially I like TEWFan's answer to the actual question better. It salvages about half of one my big storylines that I wanted to run with TCW 07. I mentioned to Craig the reviewer in his help me thread that I'd been planning to turn Jay into the Fonzarelli gimmick by way of bringing in a valet and having her Yoko Ono the Dark Brotherhood. The mission The Dark Brotherhood was supposed to be fulfilling when all this drama went on? You got it. Pushing the remnants of Painful Procedcure right off the roster. Except if I held one in reserve it would be Hopkirk rather than Ronnie V. Pain. Pain's a slug but Hopkirk could serve as a veteran tag partner to somebody or as face mentor manager. A rock and roll Arnold Skaaland with actual personality if you will. I understand the temptation to use Tornado your way, Lisbon. He was often lost in my shuffle in 07 so your plan is a step above what I tend to do with him. But the guy's not quite ready for Val Venis duty quite yet. He's still too young and marketable for just give up on him creatively that way.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;477298]In 07 TCW was pretty compelling. You had a national promotion with a decent roster but you still had holes to fill and could shape those holes to your will pretty well. In 08, those obvious holes have been filled for you. Guys have been brought in from DAVE who don't (to me) seem to relate at all because of the collapse. Ditto Edd Stone. I know he had to end up somewhere else for new feature demonstration purposes. But I still struggle to slot him as well. Talent like Rocky Golden who needed to dry up and blow away are still present. You have completely unnecessary new people like Jasmine Saunders taking up slots they shouldn't have gotten. In short, it seems like all the work has been done for me this year and in ways I wouldn't have approved to start with. The fun (for me) has been sucked out of them. And I don't have it in me to fix up a functional 07 data to eridicate all these frustrations for myself. Just terribly frustrating for me to deal with TCW 08.[/QUOTE] Unbelievable. While not specifically targeted at cappyboy (who is about as curmudgeonly as some of the rest of us), this just underlines something I was mentioning to someone the other day. People complained that the Cornellverse doesn't really change all that much. Then when Adam throws a change into things, folks (not just cappyboy, mind. As Adam can attest to, I've done quite a bit of it myself) complain that the changes weren't what they wanted them to be. Look, Troy Tornado is a wild card. He's a worker specifically placed to be someone the booker can do whatever s/he wants with. He's got talent, he's got overness, he just doesn't have a persona or a pre-set story. That's where the booker comes in to earn their keep. [QUOTE=TEWFan;477305]He came back as a special guest of Tommy Cornell and they extended an invitation for him to join The Syndicate. He turned them down and got beaten badly, which turned him face. He went on to try and reform Painful Procedure and sort of did. This lead to a "Wargames" Match between Tornado, Ronnie V.Pain, Randall Hopkirk and Billy Jack Shearer (with new member of PP Stevie Grayson , who was supposed to be their keyboard player). Of course, it was all a farce with the other members of PP turning on him. I know you think this is all messy and it was, but it was part of a bigger deal, a roster clean-up of sorts. Tornado swore revenge on the former members of PP. He defeated Hopkirk, Billy Jack and Ronnie V. in "Loser Leaves Town" Matches. That allowed me to fire all three of them (although in reality I kept Ronnie V. under contract and sent him to development and plan to re-debut him under a new character at some point). On the other hand, Grayson was brought in as a new member of The Syndicate, using his former partnership with Wolf Hawkins as a catalyst and also under the guise that he was the one who "organized" the Painful Procedure turn by messing with the heads of the other members and getting them to go against Tornado. This afforded me the chance to do some roster clean-up, got Tornado back into shape and ready for a long program with Cornell and returned (albeit briefly) Hawkins and Grayson as a team to feud with The New Wave when they took the belts from the Machines.[/QUOTE] That is gold. It's creative, overarching, and well thought out. If anyone in that storyline got hurt or whatever, you have a contingency (just focus on another part of the storyline). That's using your wild card. TCW was shaken up because (in my opinion) they were too easy. Sure, they weren't NOTBPW easy (which in 07, should've come with Staples' signature button) but it was still a lot easier than SWF if you had an inkling on how to book a wrestling based product. Now, they still have lots of talent, they just have no set in stone direction which makes it much more difficult unless you're creatively oriented.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Remianen;477337]Unbelievable. While not specifically targeted at cappyboy (who is about as curmudgeonly as some of the rest of us), this just underlines something I was mentioning to someone the other day.[/QUOTE] Dude, you sadden me. You mean there are actually people on here who equal or trump me in the curmudgeon category? Where's my weakness? Is it the fact I acknowledge my curmudgeon streak and can laugh at it when appropriate? :) [QUOTE=Remianen;477337]People complained that the Cornellverse doesn't really change all that much. Then when Adam throws a change into things, folks (not just cappyboy, mind. As Adam can attest to, I've done quite a bit of it myself) complain that the changes weren't what they wanted them to be.[/QUOTE] Well, I can only speak for myself. But some change would have been fine. I agree the C-Verse has seemed pretty immune to over-riding change up until this year's edition. But for me it was too many questions in the change all at once. Getting rid of dead weight like the Nation of Filth and Raul Darkness was a good thing. But that doesn't answer why slugs like Rocky Golden, Floyd Goldworthy and the remnants of Painful Procedure remained employed. And in the case of Golden got pushed? The only push Golden needs is out the bloody door. You have a stable war in full swing that (at least to me) is totally unappealing. And Jasmine Saunders. What a waste she is when you have guys like Charlie Thatcher, Randall Hopkirk or yes even Goldworthy if you're really desparate, to turn into interview people. I get she's female and really fine. If she were on the roster and say Goldworthy had gone, maybe I could buy that. You'd be giving her the money he was wasting. Fair tradeoff in my mind. It was like Tommy had spent the canon 2007 just completely losing his mind. It was too much change of a kind I wouldn't want to deal with all at once. Change would have been fine. But TCW feels like change for change's sake. That's why it so consistently gripes my butt. [QUOTE=Remianen;477337]Look, Troy Tornado is a wild card. He's a worker specifically placed to be someone the booker can do whatever s/he wants with. He's got talent, he's got overness, he just doesn't have a persona or a pre-set story. That's where the booker comes in to earn their keep.[/QUOTE] And you know this is one of the better changes made to TCW. Not only is everything you say true but it takes a guy who might otherwise get lost in the shuffle and makes him a key part of your booking strategy because you have his return to plan for. You have a reason to consider him you might not have in 07. If we did a C-Verse winners/losers in 08 thread, this would have to put Troy clearly in the Winners column.

[Bigpapa42]

I actually like TCW is situation at the start. The Syndicate gives you an immediate major storyline that you can run with. SWF doesn't. The fun thing about The Syndicate is that you can run it any number of directions. You can keep it together, form a babyface stable to compete against them (maybe even a DaVE stable as well). Something like that can give a year or more of good solid storylines. You can tear it apart in any number of ways (Hawkins or Keith face turn) and turn some of the current faces heel again. You can keep it together with some changes. You can make it the NWO and have everyone want to be a part of it. Really, the options are endless. As previously mentioned, Troy Tornado is a great wildcard. So much you can do with him once he's healthy. He makes a great talk show guy in the meantime, to keep him on the air. And its nice to have some heels other than the Syndicate. I love the addition of Edd Stone. For one, very promising young wrestler who should become a star. But the personality makes it a bit of a challenge. But he adds serious talent to what looks like a burgeoning lightweight division. You can make the All-Action title matter or resurrect the Cruiserweight belt. Either way, the addition of Stone allows you to have a pretty good high flier division without having to add anyone. I love that TCW gives you so many potential directions. You can dump some "dead weight" guys and sign a bunch of talent to rebuild. You can try to work with what you have - guys like Texas Pete, American Buffalo, Koshiro Ino, Giant Tana, and Rocky Golden can be turned into stars if you book them right.

[hrdcoresidebrns]

I'd say that Tornado makes a great "lone wolf" character. You can use him as a wild card in the feud with the Syndicate and the rest of TCW - somewhat like Sting was in the early days of the nWo, where you didn't really know which side he was on. I'd say given his talent both in-ring and on the mic, and the fact that you can only use him in angles for a while before he's back in ring anyway, it seems like a perfect fit to me.

[Pugsly34]

if you wanted to Troy in the same manner as Sting and you could even get Shawn Gonzales and have him make attacks as Tornado, his similar look would allow you to pass this off and give you another way to go with his character

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;477354]I love that TCW gives you so many potential directions. You can dump some "dead weight" guys and sign a bunch of talent to rebuild. You can try to work with what you have - guys like Texas Pete, American Buffalo, Koshiro Ino, Giant Tana, and Rocky Golden can be turned into stars if you book them right.[/QUOTE] Texas Pete is a valuable guy to have around. He's obviously not the greatest wrestler, his entertainment skills aren't the best, and he can't coast off of his popularity like Rocky Golden, but take a look at his personality. The guy's a saint. I've never before seen a guy who was such a natural locker room leader, and he's worth keeping just for that fact.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;477370]Texas Pete is a valuable guy to have around. He's obviously not the greatest wrestler, his entertainment skills aren't the best, and he can't coast off of his popularity like Rocky Golden, but take a look at his personality. The guy's a saint. I've never before seen a guy who was such a natural locker room leader, and he's worth keeping just for that fact.[/QUOTE] Yeah, he's a really useful guy in a lot of of ways. I've seen a few people on here talk about him as being one of TCW's "dead weight" guys they dump...

[Rob4590]

Why the hate for Floyd Goldworthy? As a manager / interviewer, he's got great stats - B's across the board in entertainment, and some decent overness. And Ino certainly isn't "dead weight" either - the guy can wrestle - maybe not in the same league as Tommy etc, but he is solid. The thing that's bugging me in my game is that I can't get any of the New Wave or the Machines over! As for the question of why PP, Tex, Thatcher etc are still there - its simple - they are there as overness fodder for the indy stars that you will bring in asap - you need overness for decent rated matches, and so you need to job those guys to your Frankie Perez's, your Keith/Gauge brothers etc. Plus its a lot less scary telling Stevie Grayson he's fired than saying that to Charlie Thatcher :p

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Rob4590;477529]Why the hate for Floyd Goldworthy? As a manager / interviewer, he's got great stats - B's across the board in entertainment, and some decent overness. [/QUOTE] And he's also intimately tied to a gimmick that has gone positively fetid in Painful Procedure. And he's been thumbtacked onto a guy in American Buffalo who doesn't seem to need him all that badly. If TCW came equipped with a development fed a la SWF, I'd advocate for sending him there and to get him out of everybody's face and teach up the guys who need entertainment help. Since that isn't a default option, I say can him. There are other managers just as skilled with less conceptual baggage out there. It's not that I hate the guy per se. I just find him to be surplus to requirements.

[Charlie Vick]

I actually love the TCW situation when you first enter the game. On the verge of falling to cult, you've got a product that calls for focus on in ring action, but most of your top guys can barely last 10 minutes in the ring. It makes for a very challenging scenario. As for Tornado, I debuted him back with a huge welcoming party thrown by the syndicate. He joins them, thens begins getting inside each one's head causing the syndicate's petty bickering and paranoia towards one another leading to their eventual implosion.

[cappyboy]

[QUOTE=Rob4590;477529] As for the question of why PP, Tex, Thatcher etc are still there - its simple - they are there as overness fodder for the indy stars that you will bring in asap - you need overness for decent rated matches, and so you need to job those guys to your Frankie Perez's, your Keith/Gauge brothers etc. [/QUOTE] For the 2007 C-Verse that was all well and good. But it really seems like they should have performed that function in the canon of C-Verse 07 and been gone by now. Well in PP's case anyway. I don't have nearly the issue with Texas Pete or Charlie Thatcher filling that role. Plus as I've noted in the past, Thatcher strikes me as a guy who could become a pretty good Personality with some opportunities to polish those skills. Or that whole veteran feeling slighted by the flamboyant newcomer shtick. Thatcher has positive places he can go. PP? Not so much.

[Guest The Aussie]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;477354] You can dump some "dead weight" guys and sign a bunch of talent to rebuild. You can try to work with what you have - guys like Koshiro Ino can be turned into stars if you book them right.[/QUOTE] Tell me I just didn't read that... Koshiro is an absolute gun. He's a pretty good brawler and has pretty good stats.

[crice1007]

If you need a feeder league for TCW, thats what MAW is for!

[sabataged]

[QUOTE=hrdcoresidebrns;477358]I'd say that Tornado makes a great "lone wolf" character. You can use him as a wild card in the feud with the Syndicate and the rest of TCW - somewhat like Sting was in the early days of the nWo, where you didn't really know which side he was on. I'd say given his talent both in-ring and on the mic, and the fact that you can only use him in angles for a while before he's back in ring anyway, it seems like a perfect fit to me.[/QUOTE] Thats how I ran Tornado. Eventually I used him in a feud with Wolf Hawkins down the road when Syndicate broke up and Hawkins turned face.

[shipshirt]

I usually turn Tornado face as he comes back from injury and he does a great job in the upper card. Tommy Cornell "made" him in a nice three match series where Tornado really held his own and shot up to a B+ (without ever beating Cornell). Floyd Goldworthy is a great manager for the undercard. I always link up as moutpiece for Tag Team Specialists. His overness is mediocre so I wouldn't attach him to a big name but he's great as a midcard guy manager. I've had the WORST luck with Ino...he's had poor to awful chemistry with all of my big names.