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I have a new company that has a Modern Level at Medium (while the product still says that wrestlers are rated much more on popularity than skill... As my realism level is at a "Very Low".. Possibly to go up to "low".) With that being said, I'm guessing that if something is at a "medium" level that means that it's not the main focus by any means but there is a strong undercurrent of modern wrestling within the show. Am i correct with that? Thank you!
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[QUOTE=Eisen-verse;506853]I have a new company that has a Modern Level at Medium (while the product still says that wrestlers are rated much more on popularity than skill... As my realism level is at a "Very Low".. Possibly to go up to "low".) With that being said, I'm guessing that if something is at a "medium" level that means that it's not the main focus by any means but there is a strong undercurrent of modern wrestling within the show. Am i correct with that? Thank you![/QUOTE] That's the way I've always seen it. Meanwhile, High would mean the vast majority of the show is built around it, and a Key Feature is something so heavily influencing your company its what you really advertise yourself as.
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[QUOTE=Comradebot;506906]That's the way I've always seen it. Meanwhile, High would mean the vast majority of the show is built around it, and a Key Feature is something so heavily influencing your company its what you really advertise yourself as.[/QUOTE] Taking WWE for example, as a promotion they are all about entertainment, however they are a company that has always stressed in-ring psychology as well as being a promotion that changes with the times. And right now, the big thing is high flying "modern" wrestling. So I'd say WWE would have Mainstream as a key feature, Traditional set to heavy, and Modern set to medium.
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[QUOTE=foolinc;507054]Taking WWE for example, as a promotion they are all about entertainment, however they are a company that has always stressed in-ring psychology as well as being a promotion that changes with the times. And right now, the big thing is high flying "modern" wrestling. So I'd say WWE would have Mainstream as a key feature, Traditional set to heavy, and Modern set to medium.[/QUOTE] I'd say: Key Feature - Mainstream Medium - Traditional Very Low - Modern and Cult I'd be very surprised if the token increase in "modern" was more than token.
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[QUOTE=The Masked Orange;507035]Does that mean that none means that you are against it, or does it just mean you don't normally have any[/QUOTE] I think it just means that you wouldn't expect to see any at your shows and thus fans you attract probably wouldn't want to see it.
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[QUOTE=foolinc;507054]Taking WWE for example, as a promotion they are all about entertainment, however they are a company that has always stressed in-ring psychology as well as being a promotion that changes with the times. And right now, the big thing is high flying "modern" wrestling. So I'd say WWE would have Mainstream as a key feature, Traditional set to heavy, and Modern set to medium.[/QUOTE] WWE isn't about high flying "modern" wrestling at all, though. Since about 2001 or so, they've cut down on any modern influences they might've had. If any wrestling skill should be at medium, it's probably realism.
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[QUOTE=lazorbeak;507436]WWE isn't about high flying "modern" wrestling at all, though. Since about 2001 or so, they've cut down on any modern influences they might've had. If any wrestling skill should be at medium, it's probably realism.[/QUOTE] Realism? In the WWE? I'd set it to none. If anything of theirs is at Medium, it'd be Risque or Comedy.
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[QUOTE=Comradebot;507439]Realism? In the WWE? I'd set it to none. If anything of theirs is at Medium, it'd be Risque or Comedy.[/QUOTE] Yes, realism in the WWE. Recognize that "realism" doesn't mean actual fighting, it means the appearance of actual fighting. WWE matches tend to be built around realistic psychology and actual wrestling holds. Not only that, look at the prototypical WWE main eventer: they're almost guaranteed to be a solid brawler, a sure mark of realism. Don't confuse realism with MMA-style "hyper-realism" or let smarkish sensibilities of "OMG WWE is sooooo fake" get in the way of looking at the actual product.
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Ooooh, a debate about WWE's product. Well, here's how I'd set up their product. :) Key: Mainstream (duh!) Heavy: Meduim: Traditional, Comedy, Realism, Low: Modern, Risque, Hardcore, Very Low: Hyper Realism, Daredevil, Pure None: Lucha Libre, Cult We all know the WWE is first and foremost about the entertainment value of shows. They use more promos and hype angles than actual wrestling, with long entrances, celebrations and commercials than anything should really have. So obviouisly the entertainment aspects are central. So... mainstream (lowest common denominator) is key, but with comedy still quite prevalent. The risque nature has been toned down somewhat too, though it could be argued that it should be at medium but due to the nature of the WWE now moving to be PG then I believe they would be at low. Cult, the darker side of storytelling in a wrestling environment is pretty much gone from the WWE there days. So I would have that at none. As for the more ring based sections, that was a bit tougher for me to decide on. Starting with the heaviest influences I've listed, traditional and realism. First, the WWE still uses characters to get you into their matches. We still want to see matches based on what is going on with the people involved and to me, that is the building block of traditional wrestling. Strong characters to get you to watch (theoretically) strong matches. Realism on the other hand, is something the WWE does comparitively well. DON'T CONFUSE THIS WITH PURE! WWE isn't a pure wrestling company, but they are mroe real than most indy promotion. A 450 splash is NOT a realistic move, nor is it realistic for most indy workers to beat guys like The Khali or The Big Show. In this context, the WWE bases realism along the lines of "big guys beat little guys" "power overwhelms anything" and "heart can help you win matches" which is something they use a lot of. So to me, along with their desire to move to a tigher style of wrestling since they started filming in High Definition I would say that the WWE has moved up to a medium in realism. While high flying isn't all over our screen in the WWE, it has several prominent wrestlers who are known for high risk moves. Guys like Rey, Jeff, HBK, Shelton, Kendrick and others display what I would call Modern influences and as such bring that edge to WWE programming. SO... Modern at Low. Similarly, hardcore matches of various kinds have been phased out and are increasinly uncommon. Down to Low for that too, at least until they start bringing back horrible gimmick matches every week to try and get back everyone's interest. For now, lets jut watch horrible handicap matches and the like instead. Hyper Realism... well, I put that at very low on the assumption that they attempt to use more KO finishes in future. But generally, I'd have that at None. Pure... again, while it may be rare to have a good actual wrestling match it isn't something that is unheard of in the WWE. I can't justify setting it to none because of the talents of guys like Regal, Burchill, Jericho, HBK, Undertaker and many others who can actually work a good wrestling match if they want to. But again, it's not a big influence on the product so I'd set it to Very Low. Daredevil... there are just enough plancha dives and general aerial offense that I can't justify setting this to none. And with guys like the Hardy's, Rey, London and anyone in the Money In the Bank match each year always around, I believe this should be set to Very Low too. Lastly... lucha libre. WWE has never, nor will ever, care about lucha libre. So it's a None here despite poor Rey Mysterio. He's moved so far away from his roots that it's hard to tell he ever competed in Mexico in the first place. Oh..... And in answer to the original question in this thread, I'd say that anything set to medium would be something you'd expect to see some of on the card but not something that would be all over every show. With the WWE, you'd expect to see entertainment no matter what the card position but comedy (or at least comedy characters) would be reserved for the midcard moreso than the main event for example. That isn't to say you wouldn't see main eventers messing around, but just that you wouldn't expect to see Santino Marella hitting the main event scene any time soon without a bit of a gimmick change no matter how much fun he was in the midcard. If that makes sense.
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I'm not exactly familiar with the product any more, at a guess I'd make it something like... Key: Traditional Heavy: Mainstream Meduim: Cult, Realism, Pure, Low: Comedy, Modern, Lucha Libre, Very Low: Hardcore, Daredevil, None: Hyper Realism, Risque, With the Cruiserweight division (IIRC) kicking off and the NWO forming during that time period I have to at least give a nod to each of those things with their product settings. WCW was, to me at least, a traditional based promotion but with strong mainstream appeal too thanks to some of their stars. With ECW influences filtering through too they'd probably have to have a nod towards the hardcore and cult revolution. But to be honest, I'm not too sure how much faith I'd put in these settings. I just don't know enough to be sure because my memory isn't as good as it once was. :)
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[QUOTE=derek_b;507689]I'm not exactly familiar with the product any more, at a guess I'd make it something like... Key: Traditional Heavy: Mainstream Meduim: Cult, Realism, Pure, Low: Comedy, Modern, Lucha Libre, Very Low: Hardcore, Daredevil, None: Hyper Realism, Risque, With the Cruiserweight division (IIRC) kicking off and the NWO forming during that time period I have to at least give a nod to each of those things with their product settings. WCW was, to me at least, a traditional based promotion but with strong mainstream appeal too thanks to some of their stars. With ECW influences filtering through too they'd probably have to have a nod towards the hardcore and cult revolution. But to be honest, I'm not too sure how much faith I'd put in these settings. I just don't know enough to be sure because my memory isn't as good as it once was. :)[/QUOTE] Cult and Pure at medium? WCW was the least cult promotion there ever was. And pure? Was ground-based holds really a big deal in WCW at the time? They pretty much ignored cult and hardcore aspects until after their peak, and had been very traditional for years, with mainstream probably coming into focus around that time, so heavy makes sense. Really the only issues are with cult, hardcore and pure.
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I'd put original NWO-era WCW at something like this: Key: Mainstream WCW during this period was constantly, desperately, trying to break out of the "wrestling" shell, going so far as to have Jay Leno wrestle. Really, only mainstream can reflect this. Heavy: Traditional Pre-Wolfpack, the WCW product was still based mostly around the traditional face-heel dynamic, with a few interesting exceptions (Sullivan-Pillman, Raven-Benoit, etc). Medium: Hardcore, Modern, Realism WCW was willing to embrace and push a wide variety of workers, from Raven to Ultimo Dragon to Fit Finlay. Low: Comedy, Lucha Libre, Pure While hardly the promotion's emphasis, WCW found time on their shows for guys like Disco Inferno, Steven Regal, Yuji Nagata, and the various luchadors. Very Low: Cult While WCW innovated in quite a few ways at their peak, they never really explored the "shades of grey" ideas and complexities that a Cult company would be expected to use. Still, some of their undercard stuff stumbled into this kind of thing, often accidentally. None: Daredevil, Hyper Realism, Risque WCW never did much with gimmick matches outside of the "Raven's Rules" stuff, and their high-flyers tended more towards Lucha style than spot-monkey-dom. I can't recall any MMA type stuff before Tank Abbott, who was after the time period you asked about. And the network always restricted their use of risque concepts, pre-Russo.
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[QUOTE=Mr T Jobs To Me;507996]Doesn't Medium realism cause the fans to crap on run-ins? Can't have that in 1996-98 WCW. Modern WWE might have low, but I would look at ROH to say that would be a "medium" amount of Realism.[/QUOTE] No. Edit: I don't mean that to sound as rude as it does, but this bizarre misperception has been ongoing even though I know I've told people in the past medium realism doesn't prevent run-ins.
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Guest The Aussie
[QUOTE=Mr T Jobs To Me;507996]Doesn't Medium realism cause the fans to crap on run-ins? Can't have that in 1996-98 WCW. Modern WWE might have low, but I would look at ROH to say that would be a "medium" amount of Realism.[/QUOTE] I believe it takes Heavy Realism and something else to make fans crap over run-ins.
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