Batista (Possible Spoilers)

[Eisen-verse]

So before I post this I have to say that I'm not really a Batista fan. Mostly because he seems like another Goldberg kind of character really. Big bad man with big bad pyro and likes to shake the ring ropes like a crazed man. I think putting the title on him was stupid from a wrestling stand-point, however, good to appease the kiddies who watch wrestling. With that being said.... Why does he have to laugh every 2 seconds during his promo's? It sounds unbelievably forced and makes him look really stupid actually. I don't expect him to always play the silent monster role but at least if you're going to be the figure head of RAW (being their champ)... Wouldn't you want to put forth a promo that actually felt realistic and not some over actor whose go to move is to chuckle over and over again? Jericho has been golden from a character stand point for the last 4 or 5 months. So, why take the title off of him? If you want to spike interest in your company... Wouldn't you want to keep the title on someone who can actually entertain like Jericho? If not that, why not put the title on HBK? At least they would be able to entertain more so than "The Big Bad Chuckler".

[scorpion]

The problem is, that as soon as they put the title on Jericho, they took away all the stuff that was making him interesting and turned him into the standard whining heel. They didn't even give him any heat going into the PPV, they put it all on Batista.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE=scorpion;515542]The problem is, that as soon as they put the title on Jericho, they took away all the stuff that was making him interesting and turned him into the standard whining heel. They didn't even give him any heat going into the PPV, they put it all on Batista.[/QUOTE] True. Very true. They did water down his persona a little when he landed the title. Still though.... Batista? It just made WWE TV that much more bland and boring.

[scorpion]

I agree. I was a big fan of Batista when he first broke away from Evolution, because the storyline was so well done. However, after he moved away from Triple H, it became apparent who had carried the matches in their feud, and I lost interest in him. (His reputation backstage as a whiner didn't help) I was enjoying CM Punk as champion, and while I was upset about the bait and switch that lead to Jericho winning the belt, Jericho had been the best character on Raw and i was looking forward to a strong title reign to make up for him having to clean up after Steph's dog the first time around. But I swear, Vince must get off and making people then forcing them to fail. He did t to Mysterio, he did it to Punk, and now he did it to Jericho. That's why I've stopped watching WWE, and had a friend not invited me to watch the PPV last night, I certainly wouldn't have ordered it.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]I agree. I was a big fan of Batista when he first broke away from Evolution, because the storyline was so well done. However, after he moved away from Triple H, it became apparent who had carried the matches in their feud, and I lost interest in him. (His reputation backstage as a whiner didn't help) I was enjoying CM Punk as champion, and while I was upset about the bait and switch that lead to Jericho winning the belt, Jericho had been the best character on Raw and i was looking forward to a strong title reign to make up for him having to clean up after Steph's dog the first time around. But I swear, Vince must get off and making people then forcing them to fail. He did t to Mysterio, he did it to Punk, and now he did it to Jericho. That's why I've stopped watching WWE, and had a friend not invited me to watch the PPV last night, I certainly wouldn't have ordered it.[/QUOTE] I agree with everything you said there. Batista was great in Evolution and short there after. However, the more they give him mic time and the more he tries to show off this "laughing happy guy" persona... It just becomes more and more obvious that he isn't a main event talent outside of his size. I think when it comes to Vince... He has so many ideas floating in his head. He wants all of his big names to be World Champion so that he can push the merchandise and get fans excited about seeing their fav. on top... The only problem is that with no build up, no character development, and no real sense of direction for the champ... It comes out making the title look like a game of hot potato.

[Greg2511]

just a note. the title says "possible spoilers" i came in thinking it was an unconfirmed report on a future story or something...considering it mentions batista is the new world heavyweight champ...it should be labelled spoilers...its sure something i woiuld have like to not have found out having not watched CS yet

[Self]

The other side of this argument is that [I]people like Batista[/I]. I know most of us here don't like the man, or his wrestling skills, or his character, but the fans at large seem to like the guy. For people who are more open to the kayfabe side of WWE, he's a hero. There's a strain of thought that if the top guy in the company is someone you actually like, you are more likely to watch the show. That exact thought process is evident right here in this post. We like Jericho more than Batista, therefore we're more likely to watch if Jericho is the Champion. For a casual fan who likes Batista more than Jericho, they might be more likely to watch if Batista is the Champion... and make no mistake, there are a lot of people who find Batista entertaining. I don't like the title change personally, but I can see that side of things, which might explain the switch. It's a bit of a shame though. Jericho as Champion was very entertaining to me.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Self;515717]The other side of this argument is that [I]people like Batista[/I]. I know most of us here don't like the man, or his wrestling skills, or his character, but the fans at large seem to like the guy. For people who are more open to the kayfabe side of WWE, he's a hero. There's a strain of thought that if the top guy in the company is someone you actually like, you are more likely to watch the show. That exact thought process is evident right here in this post. We like Jericho more than Batista, therefore we're more likely to watch if Jericho is the Champion. For a casual fan who likes Batista more than Jericho, they might be more likely to watch if Batista is the Champion... and make no mistake, there are a lot of people who find Batista entertaining. I don't like the title change personally, but I can see that side of things, which might explain the switch. It's a bit of a shame though. Jericho as Champion was very entertaining to me.[/QUOTE] /nod. I aggree with you 100%. This does everything it's supposed to do (outside of making us happy). First off, Jericho is always a "Real Threat" to the Heavyweight Champion, no matter who has it. Secondly, there are several "other" stories on RAW right now that I liked better anyways... "Bring out the Honkey-Meter!". I know this is NOT what anyone here would do. Batista is at the moment (not counting HBK), the top face on Raw. In my opinion, CM Punk was a MORE believable champ (when he had the title) mostly because there was no "real" opposition (outside of Jericho). I'm talking strictly from a believable point of view... Even when Randy was NOT out, he didn't really "Feel" like he could have a legitimate win. Meaning, if he did win it, you always felt like as soon as someone has a "Fair" match with him, he would lose it again. Jericho... Not really so. He's for some dang reason totally believable that he could retain a title if he was in a "fair" match, against bassically anyone. He has that "I think, react, and take advantage of weakness's" thing going. Looking at everything from this point of view, Jericho is so naturally gifted (something I failed to notice way back when) that he can give the rub to many younger worker's, and if they can hold thier own believably, bring them right up the card to the Main Event. Randy... For some reason this last injury, being out yet being able to do angle's, and such at this point... He's looking more and more believable then he ever did before as a threat to the title seen. I can see him take that belt off Batista first chance he gets. He's also brought some credibility to the 2nd generation Cody, Afa, and Ted. I'm starting to really enjoy them. Miz and Morrison are dropping the ball.. I think Morrison is really holding back Miz. They probably need to split them up, have a small feud where Miz gets the win, and let him go on. Bring in the next young heel for Morrison to Tag up with. Just.... He's sometimes on, but more then not he is just OFF. OR, they could just limit him to two or three words of wisdom, and that might work better. The Tag team division on Raw has picked up though. The woman's division is not bad, and I'm loving the Santino crapology. Time for work.

[Self]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;515805]Randy... For some reason this last injury, being out yet being able to do angle's, and such at this point... He's looking more and more believable then he ever did before as a threat to the title seen.[/quote] I never saw Randy Orton as anything special before. He was a guy. He wrestled quite well. He was kinda ****y. He killed the occasional Legend. He was good, but as I said, nothing to write home about. [I]Now he looks like a star.[/I] Every time he comes to the ring, I'm sitting up and taking notice. [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;515805]Miz and Morrison are dropping the ball.. I think Morrison is really holding back Miz. They probably need to split them up, have a small feud where Miz gets the win, and let him go on. Bring in the next young heel for Morrison to Tag up with. Just.... He's sometimes on, but more then not he is just OFF. OR, they could just limit him to two or three words of wisdom, and that might work better.[/quote] I hate to talk ill of the Shaman of Sexy, but I have to agree with you a bit. I watched half-a-dozen Dirt Sheet episodes this morning, and they were awful. Simply juvinile. I haven't watched the 2 most recent ones, because I simply couldn't take any more... and I LOVE John Morrison. Seriously. I would stalk him if I knew where he lived. I don't like the idea of breaking them up, but there's something amiss, and those god-awful live Dirt Sheets aren't helping. Bad juvinile comedy is fine online, because you can't hear the audience reactions. Bad juvinile comedy on live TV in front of an audience is just bad.

[scorpion]

[QUOTE=Self;515822]I don't like the idea of breaking them up, but there's something amiss, and those god-awful live Dirt Sheets aren't helping. Bad juvinile comedy is fine online, because you can't hear the audience reactions. Bad juvinile comedy on live TV in front of an audience is just bad.[/QUOTE] You have to remember where the bad juvenile comedy comes from. Its the same person (read Vince McMahon) who thinks "JBL is poopy" is funny. And, as for the complaigning about "possible spoiler" this was posted an hour into Raw, if someone hasn't watched Cyber Sunday, is skipping raw untll they watch cyber sunday, why would they open a thread that says "spoilers" knowing that Batista was in the main event? :rolleyes:

[Self]

[QUOTE=scorpion;515836]You have to remember where the bad juvenile comedy comes from. Its the same person (read Vince McMahon) who thinks "JBL is poopy" is funny.[/quote] I swear I'm going to stop posting soon, but... I LOVED "[I]JBL is poopy[/I]". I can't quite put my finger on why, but perhaps it's because it wasn't shoved down our throats. You'd have to be really paying attention to see it. Also, John Cena's core audience are the 8 year old who would find that funny, and Cena did it with such infectious childish glee that I just wanted to high-five him.

[Superkevd]

Batista to me is like your typical mans man tough guy. In my opinion he is very likeable whats not to like about a guy who probably likes and agrees with the things i like and agree with. The problem I have with him is, if the WWE were a film his character isn't deep or special enough to be the main star, sure hes interesting as a side attraction but in my mind hes just the tough guy who maybe helps the main hero out his character is too simple to be the main antagonist. I agree with everyone who said his stuff with Triple H was awesome because it was but I don't know why anyone would be rooting for him against Jericho he had no arc or plot to make you want to support him, he was just sorta there. I guess my biggest problem is despite having years in the spotlight now hes one dimensional and his character is pretty stale by now. At a time where WWE is screaming out for something original and exciting or even just something good like what they had with Jericho, i can't work out why they've given the belt to Batista AGAIN!

[infinitywpi]

Batista needs to go back to wearing the suit down to the ring. Dude looks like a mafioso in it, especially with the sunglasses. If he's gonna be champ, they should try to make him look as cool as possible. Have a girl on each arm, big gleaming smile on him, have him tip the ring announcers and timekeeper after the matches as a thank-you. Maybe have him buy a new outfit for someone who just got theirs trashed in a match. Make him look like a genuine nice guy. Then have Orton call him on it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

[QUOTE=scorpion;515542]The problem is, that as soon as they put the title on Jericho, they took away all the stuff that was making him interesting and turned him into the standard whining heel. They didn't even give him any heat going into the PPV, they put it all on Batista.[/QUOTE] Indeed, that's why I mostly expected Jericho to retain but they just SuperCena'd Batista going into the PPV AND had him walk away with the belt. I don't like Batista by any means, but the little satisfaction I contain when it comes to him is the fact he won't last long in the WWE, due to his body and age. They're milking him now for all he's worth as the top face on Raw, but it's just a matter of time before he calls it quits anyway.

[sebsplex]

I'd rather have seen Jericho keep the belt, but as has been mentioned since the HBK/Y2J feud (which credit to the WWE, was a highly entertaining and highly charged feud), Jericho's character suddenly reverted to a horribly generic heel, losing all the edge and momentum the feud had given him. It's ironic that a whiney heel should lose the belt to a guy who has been tagged by the IWC as a backstage whinger, though. As for Batista... well from a business point of view, RAW ratings have been down and Batista remains a popular and safer option to put the belt on. Personally, I'm completely indifferent to his character. I don't hate it, I just can't relate to Batista in any way that makes me care whether he wins, loses or even turns up. Recently, his character seems to have added nothing new to suggest that this title reign is going to be any different or meaningful than his last one. [QUOTE=Self;515717]There's a strain of thought that if the top guy in the company is someone you actually like, you are more likely to watch the show. That exact thought process is evident right here in this post. We like Jericho more than Batista, therefore we're more likely to watch if Jericho is the Champion. For a casual fan who likes Batista more than Jericho, they might be more likely to watch if Batista is the Champion... and make no mistake, there are a lot of people who find Batista entertaining.[/QUOTE] There's obviously some truth in this, but then with good booking people should have been watching Batista's push towards the belt. It's cliched, but 'the thrill is often in the chase'. In storyline terms, Jericho is a real threat to the belt. In the eyes of some though, the WWE bombed out his push and title reign and don't exactly have a great track record to inspire the belief that they'll now do something spectacular to re-establish Jericho's character.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]I never saw Randy Orton as anything special before. He was a guy. He wrestled quite well. He was kinda ****y. He killed the occasional Legend. He was good, but as I said, nothing to write home about. Now he looks like a star. Every time he comes to the ring, I'm sitting up and taking notice. [/QUOTE] I agree. I never liked Orton... He seemed extremely bland to me and in some ways he still kind of does, however, there is something to him since coming back from his injury that has set him apart from the others. Maybe it's because he isn't wrestling right now so they've had to do something different with him in a way and we get to see a new side of Orton in the sense where he is being more vocal than physical. All in all, I wouldn't mind this version of Orton back on the top of RAW... but... That's if they can continue to show him in a new light.

[Moe Hunter]

Batista was at his absolute best while in his feud with Eddie, IMO. The promos were awesome. When Eddie faked a sore stomach and Batista brought in his own doctor (the super effeminate guy, "Hello Mr Guerrero") to check him out "thoroughly", before walking off with the hot nurse and bottle of lube... Then the next week when Eddie had all his Mexican food and Dave took it away from him saying it'll be no good for his stomach. He walks away and Eddie pulls out a tortilla, relishing that he still had something left... only for Batista to come back and exclaim "Ha-hah! That's what I'm missing!" Gold. That's the Batista we need. Him in a suit driving a Ferari was bad ass too, but I'm always more comedy minded.

[The Shape]

I've liked Batista for a while now. Since he moved to Raw he's been great. Great in the HBK/Jericho feud being deadly serious, more entertaining in the absence of Cena, and though I mighta been confused at the time had I watched Cyber Sunday, the recap of the main event shown at the start of the Raw makes it look awesome, nicely overbooked and it really adds to the PPV's standing. Do agree they could make him cooler though, and yes his character lacks depth hence why he's almost always in the title picture, not much else for him to feud about (making the Jericho/HBK stuff even more awesome as he had a valid point and really pushed it forward in a tweener sorta role).

[Tha Black Phenom]

[QUOTE=Moe Hunter;516116]Batista was at his absolute best while in his feud with Eddie, IMO. The promos were awesome. When Eddie faked a sore stomach and Batista brought in his own doctor (the super effeminate guy, "Hello Mr Guerrero") to check him out "thoroughly", before walking off with the hot nurse and bottle of lube... Then the next week when Eddie had all his Mexican food and Dave took it away from him saying it'll be no good for his stomach. He walks away and Eddie pulls out a tortilla, relishing that he still had something left... only for Batista to come back and exclaim "Ha-hah! That's what I'm missing!" Gold. That's the Batista we need. Him in a suit driving a Ferari was bad ass too, but I'm always more comedy minded.[/QUOTE] I did like that too. Hell, his whole run on SmackDown! wasn't all bad. He got drafted there with the huge momentum of beating Triple H thrice, had an entertaining feud with JBL, then went on with Eddie and then he got injured and had to vacate the title. It's ironic his first title reign ended on a sour note because that was arguably the best of all his title reigns.

[Self]

[QUOTE=infinitywpi;515842]Batista needs to go back to wearing the suit down to the ring. Dude looks like a mafioso in it, especially with the sunglasses. If he's gonna be champ, they should try to make him look as cool as possible. Have a girl on each arm, big gleaming smile on him, have him tip the ring announcers and timekeeper after the matches as a thank-you. Maybe have him buy a new outfit for someone who just got theirs trashed in a match.[/QUOTE] I love this gimmick. However, I love it because I would absolutely HATE whoever was using it. It sounds like not only is the guy more succesful than me, but he's also incredibly patronising about it. When I see someone with a girl on each arm, I don't think "[I]He's the man![/I]" I think "[I]Screw you![/I]". I'm struggling to pay the bills every month, why would I like a guy who can afford to flash his cash around? If someone wanted to give me money, no strings attached, I'd say "[I]Gee! Thanks, Mister.[/I]" If however I was given money by a guy who had just kicked my ass, I would think "[I]Screw you, you patronising jerk!"[/I] Maybe it's just me. I'm a jealous sort (apparently) and as such I don't like people who are 'better' than me. I would hate this character. Which makes it, in my book, an awesome heel gimmick... which I guess in time could turn babyface depending on how entertaining it becomes. Then again, I could be wrong. Different strokes for different folks. [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;515805]Miz and Morrison are dropping the ball.. I think Morrison is really holding back Miz. They probably need to split them up, have a small feud where Miz gets the win, and let him go on. Bring in the next young heel for Morrison to Tag up with. Just.... He's sometimes on, but more then not he is just OFF. OR, they could just limit him to two or three words of wisdom, and that might work better.[/QUOTE] I watched ECW last night, and I thought their Dirt Sheet was pretty good. I know I'm naturally biased, and the fake-superstars thing has been done time and time again, but... They cut out the lame comedy, and cut a more serious promo, pushing the fact that they are awesome A-listers who are better than the audience. Delivery was good. There were some good lines. If DX had turned up and chased them out of the building it would have ruled. ... and Miz was really good. Way better than Morrison in that segment.