Oliver Stone makes me think.... (JFK)

[tristram]

I'm assuming a lot of you have probably seen JFK, for the first time I saw it last night... To me, looking at it like Stone (And Garrison has), and from various books I've read, there just appears to be many stones unturned by the Warren Commission and the initial investigation on something so monumentally history changing that for the first time in my life I'm starting to believe there is a conspiracy involved. At any rate, I thought even all these years on, given Barrack Obama reminds me a little of JFK in that he is essentially a very charismatic man has just been made President elect, that it would be interesting to hear what people think of those events...

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=tristram;522345]I'm assuming a lot of you have probably seen JFK, for the first time I saw it last night... To me, looking at it like Stone (And Garrison has), and from various books I've read, there just appears to be many stones unturned by the Warren Commission and the initial investigation on something so monumentally history changing that for the first time in my life I'm starting to believe there is a conspiracy involved. At any rate, I thought even all these years on, given Barrack Obama reminds me a little of JFK in that he is essentially a very charismatic man has just been made President elect, that it would be interesting to hear what people think of those events...[/QUOTE] Sorry to pop the bubble mate. Oliver Stone freely admits to exaggerating, cajoling and flat out inventing the facts to help make a better film. There actually never was a 'magic bullet' for instance. Like a lot of conspiracy theory's people make money off the fact that you want to believe in the conspiracy. Seems like anybody can be an author and state opinions as facts. I remember a few years ago there was a JFK 'season' on BBC. Think it was like a week of programme's, ending with an investigation into all the facts, the Warren commission and Oswald. I was really interested to see what they would come up with, hoping it might she's some light on the whole thing and confirm that there was indeed a conspiracy. The conclusion? Oswald did it. They addressed all the points usually raised and basically disproved them. Also explaining how everybody takes the film as fact when in actuality the film uses creative licence and borrows from various other incorrect theories.

[tristram]

That's kinda why I don't buy any conspiracy theories. There's too many loopholes. Great movie though. Was it true though that the usual protection offered to a Presidential motorcade was severely limited below normal operating levels, or is that myth as well?

[Sons of Kohral]

Take a closer look at the "magic bullet". Things don't add up. Stone does indeed take true events and exaggerate them greatly, but when you research the Kennedy Assassination alleged conspiracy, don't disregard it's veracity just bc "JFK" was an exaggerated take on it.

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=tristram;522357]That's kinda why I don't buy any conspiracy theories. There's too many loopholes. Great movie though. Was it true though that the usual protection offered to a Presidential motorcade was severely limited below normal operating levels, or is that myth as well?[/QUOTE] Cant answer that one mate. It was a while ago and cant remember that particular detail. [QUOTE=Sons of Kohral;522361]Take a closer look at the "magic bullet". Things don't add up. Stone does indeed take true events and exaggerate them greatly, but when you research the Kennedy Assassination alleged conspiracy, don't disregard it's veracity just bc "JFK" was an exaggerated take on it.[/QUOTE] Please enlighten me :) I used to think the same. Then i saw a computer representation of the shooting. They used a programme to calculate where the bullets would hit after feeding in Kennedy's body positions, angle and trajectory of bullets. Oswalds height etc etc. It was very detailed. The conclusion was that the same bullet passed through him multiple times. Maybe there is more stuff out there that I've not seen though.

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=SuperOwens;522368]Cant answer that one mate. It was a while ago and cant remember that particular detail. Please enlighten me :) I used to think the same. Then i saw a computer representation of the shooting. They used a programme to calculate where the bullets would hit after feeding in Kennedy's body positions, angle and trajectory of bullets. Oswalds height etc etc. It was very detailed. The conclusion was that the same bullet passed through him multiple times. Maybe there is more stuff out there that I've not seen though.[/QUOTE] Hence 'the magic bullet' theory.

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=theoutlaw321;522369]Hence 'the magic bullet' theory.[/QUOTE] The theory is that there must have been another shooter as there were more wounds than the shots fired from Oswald. So the magic bullet is meant to have been a bullet that moves and turns in the body in an impossible way. My point being that this computer simulation showed that the bullet passed straight with no alterations in course and still caused the multiple wounds.

[CQI13]

There's also this clip to fuel the discussion: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62gvoKyODu4&feature=related[/url] A better question might be why did he take the convertible? Why did Robert go through the kitchen? No conspiracy. They made mistakes.

[Astil]

Kennedy pissed off a [B]LOT[/B] of people. A [B]LOT[/B]. It is my personal opinion that Oswald did it, but did not act alone. Eyewitness accounts, magic bullet. Not to mention a few other odd things that happened, like the body situation after death.

[CQI13]

Well, we certainly did/do it to foreign political leaders. Can't be too far fetched it was done here as well. I've heard stories that it was mob related (both this one and Robert). Wouldn't surprise me. Their dad was no stand up guy from all accounts I've read.

[Guest cmdrsam]

I'll throw my two cents out here. What the heck. Ok I found the movie to be be entertaining. I also found Da Vinci Code entertaining. Both are full of it. But the one thing I will take with me was when Costner is talking to Sutherland in the park I believe. Who had the most to gain? I will go to my death bed, with a gut instinct this was black ops all the way. Just a gut feeling and I could go on in length on why I feel this way. But I do not want this to turn into a flame fest. This was purely for conversation only. :cool:

[ACCBiggz]

Discovery Channel did a thing on the JFK assassination and such, if you can find the program, watch it.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=CQI13;522544]Well, we certainly did/do it to foreign political leaders. Can't be too far fetched it was done here as well. I've heard stories that it was mob related (both this one and Robert). Wouldn't surprise me. Their dad was no stand up guy from all accounts I've read.[/QUOTE] That's I think the part that makes it appear a little... shall we say, conspired. Their old man. His father had links, he had ties, and those ties expected paybacks when he lobbied them for their vote in '60. If anything, Bobby moreso went in a more ethical manner which must have p!ssed many off, Bobby appears to me to have been the one I feel most sorrow for because I feel his intense ethical standpoints could have had a very positive impact on the world, but I don't think this goes down well with his old man's contacts. It seems there is a bit of mob political subtefuge involved, it just wouldn't surprise me. All in all, for some reason or another I'm finding the whole topic completely engrossing. I was born a long time after JFK was assassinated in a land very far removed from the United States, but it's an intoxicating topic of conversation. Good points made by all. And yes, the fact JFK was in a convertible... that was really, really poor planning.

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=tristram;522732] And yes, the fact JFK was in a convertible... that was really, really poor planning.[/QUOTE] Or...........

[fatallylost]

You know what's always funny to me? Most people who air their opinions about conspiracy theories, are much like people's opinions on wrestling in the 80's. Fans say it was real, non-fans say it's fake. There's rarely people who get that there can be a gray area. It's either, Oswald was the only shooter, firing three shots in rapid succession, at an amazing distance with the accuracy. Or, there were multiple shooters from many angles. What do I believe? Who cares really? I, personally don't believe Oswald did it, or, did it alone at the very least. But, there is one thing I do know. We will never know. The government, and studies have said it was Oswald alone. It's the official story, end of story. If it was a black op, we won't know, cause that will never be released, simple as that. Same with damn near anything else. The whole Nixon debacle, half of the **** Bush and Cheney are labeled with, the 9/11 conspiracys... all of them. Anything with a government tie can never be known, because it's all he said she said. If there was video footage of LBJ, Castro, someone from the day admitting to it... and I'm not talking about Castro saying it now, I mean footage of planning, etc, no definitive proof/answers will ever be known... simple as that.

[tristram]

I agree mate, we will never know (much like we'll never know who Jack the Ripper was, what REALLY happened with Marilyn Monroe and many other questionable sagas). Still, it's great fun to have a discussion about it. To me, it's like a great mystery novel, you think you know, but somehow through the trickery of words you're done like a dinner again and are shocked to hell. Conflict and mystery are the pinaccle of all great stories, from wrestling to political assassination conspiracies to the daily rag.

[CQI13]

Here are some of the others I hadn't heard, and some I had heard explained further. [url]http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/electronic-publications/stay-free/4/jfk.htm[/url] Old article, but for those interested it provides a good starting point.

[fatallylost]

[QUOTE=tristram;522766]I agree mate, we will never know (much like we'll never know who Jack the Ripper was, what REALLY happened with Marilyn Monroe and many other questionable sagas). Still, it's great fun to have a discussion about it. To me, it's like a great mystery novel, you think you know, but somehow through the trickery of words you're done like a dinner again and are shocked to hell. Conflict and mystery are the pinaccle of all great stories, from wrestling to political assassination conspiracies to the daily rag.[/QUOTE] I agree there. I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist, but, I know, just by definiteion, the government (US, UK, China, whoever) does stuff we don't, and may never know about. ****, we JUST found out who Deep Throat was... and no, not Linda Lovelace.:p

[CQI13]

[QUOTE=fatallylost;523132]I agree there. I'm by no means a conspiracy theorist, but, I know, just by definiteion, the government (US, UK, China, whoever) does stuff we don't, and may never know about. ****, we JUST found out who Deep Throat was... and no, not Linda Lovelace.:p[/QUOTE] Or so you'd like to think;) Though I'm not too fond of that whole situation. Ever since then, the media adds "gate" at the end of every scandal. Seriously, a covered nipple on TV or a blown call in a game IS NOT equivalent to a government scandal, and completely diminishes the original event.

[ACCBiggz]

Funnily enough, MSNBC/Discovery released an article about the JFK thing I saw awhile back. Why they are acting like it's new, I don't know. [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27705829/[/url] Discovery Channel's Nov. 16th special, "JFK: Inside the Target Car," I saw the program back in 2006 or 2007, so they are just re-hashing it.

[CQI13]

Well, that puts the "where" to rest, but not "who". My money's on the mob.