SWF Tips + Thoughts

[Bigpapa42]

This probably could go into the Tip Thread, but I figured since its SWF specific and is probably going to get lengthy, I would give its own thread. This is some stuff I've learned in playing quite a number of different games with SWF. Some of the tips have been noted elsewhere, and many are applicable to other promotions. [B]1. WWE Comparisons[/B] Its clear that the SWF has a lot in common with the WWE. That's both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on your opinion of the WWE. But one thing to keep in mind - Supreme [I]is not[/I] the WWE. So you can differentiate it from the WWE in any way you want. You can book it like how you'd like the WWE to be or how the WWE was in a given era. Make it your own. I think a few people get caught up in the WWE similarities and either avoid it due to that or can't see the possibilities available. [B]2. Be Aware of the Possibilities[/B] What I truly love about running the SWF is that it lets you do a bit of everything. Obviously trying to go with an all-out pure-wrestling route as you would in NOTBPW or Japan wouldn't fly, but you can sure have elements of it. You can have some of the same goofy fun elements that make USPW so fun. I've had guys like Sean Deeley, who don't immediately seem like SWF workers, do well if you book them correctly. Endless possibilities. [B]3. Angles[/B] This seems almost unnecessary to mention, given that the SWF is a Sports Entertainment promotion. But use angles. Use them a lot. With top guys, its easy to get angles that are B+ or even A. A few those combined with a strong main event makes for a strong show. Part of this is to make sure that you use angles geared towards a workers strength. Its a good idea to put guys like Christian Faith, Jack Bruce, Rich Money, and Angry Gilmore on the mic constantly. The likes of Brandon James, Vengeance, and Runaway Train have high Menace, which is just as usable. I've actually taken to writing my own angles to make sure they best fit the strengths of the workers in question. [B]4. Use Your Top Talent[/B] Given that everything is based around popularity in the SWF, its smart to keep your most popular workers visible. Pretty much every show I book with SWF has every main eventer used in some manner, and most of the upper midcard guys. If they aren't wrestling, they are in angles. It helps that I use crossover storylines, which I'll detail later. [B]5. Strong Main Events[/B] I have a fairly basic formula to booking SWF events. It generally consists of starting with a strong angle, followed by a fairly strong match (often an upper midcarder against a midcarder). I usually end the show with two strong matches. Not necessarily PPV-caliber, but close. The first match will usually be a upper mid against like, or against a main eventer. The main match will be main eventer against like or upper mid. Between them is another strong angle, and often with another at the end. This obviously isn't the only way to book SWF shows, but it works quite well. Especially once you get the popularity of your top guys into the A and A* range. For Supreme TV, I rarely manage less than a B+ show and often get A shows now. Booking the main event secondary main event and main event as three-way or tag team matches is a handy way to avoid repeat booking penalties. Interference can help a match at times, whether it affects the outcome or not, plus it helps drive the storylines. Clean wins aren't that necessary in the SWF. [B]6. Keep the Top Talent Strong[/B] This is a pretty general tip but its really helpful in Supreme. If you recall TEW 2007, there was a handy worker analysis screen that reminded you that you wanted to keep upper midcard talent strong by giving them wins over midcard guys, etc. Its simple but its key. Having your main eventers not take too many losses helps maintain their popularity. In my current game, about half of my main eventers have A* popularity because they rarely lose. It also helps that they get frequent wins over upper midcard guys. The upper midcard guys are kept strong by getting fairly frequent wins, over both midcard guys and lower. If you job one level of worker too much, you end up with a big of a gap and the losses they give to the upper guys don't help as much. Strong angles is another way to keep guys strong. To get popularity and momentum back up after a loss or two. Strong storylines help in this regard. [B]7. Christian Faith[/B] There's been a few people mention on here that they don't really use Christian Faith to any extent. I did the same when I first tried SWF. He is now the MVP of the promotion in any game I start. His stats don't look fantastic at first glance, but he can carry any match. He's great on the mic. He will job if you want him to. I find Faith as valuable as Money, Bruce, and Gilmore. His age means he can be close to retirement in some games. Which is unfortunate. In other games, he can keep going for a long while. Very overlooked talent. [B]8. No One is Useless[/B] I've also read a few times that people take over SWF and get rid of the "dead wood". Obviously, its your game and you play it how you like. As well, it can be appealing to make a promotion your own and to try to build new stars. But what I've come to learn is that no one on the starting SWF is useless. The closest is Big Smack Scott. But if you can put up with his steroiding and get his psychology up a bit, then his entertainment skills make up for his lack of ring ability. Runaway Train seems to be a popular worker to bury. Its understandable - he's old and he's not great in the ring. But the combination of overness and menace make him quite useful. There are plenty of other big menacing guys who can sign, but none of them available at the start have the popularity. Its tempting to make quick use of Train by jobbing him out a bit, then either cutting ties or maybe using him in a bodyguard role. But if you book him carefully, you can maintain that popularity with some decent wins plus have him put other guys over as well. That's making the best possible use of what the game gives you. Enygma is another that seems to get overlooked, much like Train. Again, he can be of great long-term use if you do it carefully and keep him strong. Its not wrong to job him and bury him, but his friendship with Eisen means he's going to stick around. Enygma has proven more willing to job than Train in my experience, and his performance skills make him helpful to train up some of the younger guys. There are other workers - Fredrique Antonio Garcia, Squeaky McClean, both Biggz brothers, Death Row, Kurt Laramee, even Eric Eisen - who get overlooked. They all can offer something. Its juts a matter of finding a way and booking it right. [B]9. Sign Carefully[/B] Its so tempting when you start with a promotion as big as Supreme... You can sign anyone not on a written contract. Everyone loves adding talent and building their own stars. Especially when you have a child promotion like RIPW that you can send them to. If you're not careful, its easy to end up with a bloated roster and that can kill you interest in a game. This is something I've done far too many times. Its not wrong to start out the game by signing 30 new workers and not have any intended uses for more than a couple. Again, its your game. But that is something that can cause problems. You end up with a ton of midcard and lower midcard guys that just kinda float along. A hard-learned lesson I've come to appreciate is having an intended use for any guys I sign. Even if its a developmental guy that I know will spend six months at RIPW. "Having a use" doesn't necessarily mean you need to have everything planned out in detail. It might mean that someone is going to be a minor part of a stable for awhile. It might mean that they will spend some time jobbing before getting a singles push. Its just a helpful way to make sure you don't end up inflating your roster beyond use. That can happen with any promotion but its very easy with Supreme. [B]10. Crossover Storylines[/B] This is a favorite of mine with any promotion but works particularly well with Supreme. I tend to use unchained storylines and make good use of minor characters. It works because I have stories that are intended to be interconnected. For example, if I have a major heel stable with three top level wrestlers, they will each have individual feuds. But they would obviously be connected. So each feud would be set up with as a two-person unchained storyline, but with the minor characters the four workers from the other storylines. So you can have one angle with multiple characters affecting several storylines. Which is, to me, realistic. [B]11. Use Stables[/B] This is a personal preference of mine, but I like making use of stables. Its a handy way to give a role to a number of wrestlers even when they aren't doing a lot. Its an easy way to involved 6 or 8 workers in one feud and still have it make sense. There are plenty of low-level SWF workers who might not have much use other than jobbing at the start - Death Row, Greg Rayne, Samoan Wildboyz, Andre Jones, Paul Huntingdon... Putting a bit of creativity into a couple stables can give them roles, even if minor ones. And that means they get involved in angles and such occasionally. [B]12. Use Managers[/B] Again, another personal preference. But using a mouthpiece manager is a good way to help out with those workers who don't have great entertainment skills. A way to maximize angle ratings. _______________________________ I don't know if all of that will actually help anyone book SWF or any other promotion. But after starting an endless number of games as SWF (and more than a few as TCW), these are a few of the things I've come to realize. Figured I would share just in case someone will find it useful.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;522610] Enygma is another that seems to get overlooked, much like Train. Again, he can be of great long-term use if you do it carefully and keep him strong. Its not wrong to job him and bury him, but his friendship with Eisen means he's going to stick around. [/QUOTE] Also worth noting: In Straight Edge, there's a good chance that at any given time at least one and likely two of Faith, Enygma and Eric will be on your to-push list courtesy of Richard. Keeping them all major in between makes that a LOT easier.

[Eisen-verse]

Hats off Bigpapa. (That's a phrase I never thought I would write. haha) You hit it head on with this. :) Good work.

[lazorbeak]

More stuff! The first few shows: go all out. You start the game with a lot of popularity but your workers don't start that over (only one guy begins with A popularity across the board). On the same note: immediately call up enough workers to avoid penalties for having a small roster: you've got guys with good momentum like Nevada Nuclear and guys with good performance skills in Greed and Cheetah Boy. Storylines: Use them! It will get people over without being at others' expense. Build Stars! This goes hand and hand with storylines, but it's worth mentioning. SWF has a midcard of guys that are not particular over but many are very talented and need to be exposed. Valiant, Marc DuBois, Garcia, Retro, the Bumfholes, and the list goes on. Get them over! Put them in interesting storylines, let them wrestle more over talents, give them things to do! Build for the future: Christian Faith is your star of right now, but he can't carry the promotion forever. So what's the future? You've got some great talents, but none of them are ready just yet. You can train up Remo, Frehley and Vengeance by feuding them immediately with Faith. Lobster, Money and Angry can be top guys with the addition of some overness. Other good trainers for your future top guys are Enforcer Roberts and Squeeky McClean, both of whom have great performance skills. Steal Talent! You're the #1 promotion on earth; you don't always have to make stars. You have more prestige than anyone. Your first week, get a list of guys with good overness in the US that you'd be interested in, hopefully included Dan Stone, McFly, Human Arsenal, and everybody else who's talented and unavailable. Basically guys that you can immediately plug into your roster without jobbing people out. When one of your listed workers pops up in an e-mail, make them an offer they can't refuse. Plus, you want to take those TCW workers who can put on great main events (let them keep Baine, RDJ, Golden, and the rest of their crap). Hopefully they'll put the title on someone who can't carry their roster, and you can gain some ground. Signing workers in the meantime: Who do you sign while you wait for Joey Minnesota to finish his contract? Look for charisma and performance skills. James Prudence, Devine, Jungle Jack, and Chris Caulfield are all good bets to start with. You can also find guys with good performance skills that you have no plans to push long-term. Pushing new talent: Okay, so you signed Darryl Devine, and you want to make him a big star. Should he immediately debut by pinning BSS? No! You'll get notes about Devine underperforming, you'll get a pissed off regular and a bad match. Look at what the WWE did with Kofi, Kozlov, or CM Punk. At first, a guy with overness below a D+ shouldn't be beating anybody on the regular roster. Let them beat guys on short-term talents (aka jobbers) and development guys called up for the night (the ones with at least decent performance skills). Then, once they've moved into the low D's you can start putting them over with guys like Paul Huntington or Greg Rayne or any other opener/lower midcarder. This way you maybe slightly decrease a few opener's overness instead of burying a midcarder.

[Bigpapa42]

Great additions, Lazor! I was going to get into a bit of that stuff but the first post was nasty overlong as it was. Storylines are basically your biggest tool with SWF, and angles are what drive them. Your popular workers are your other biggest tool. And it is essentially to build them up quickly. There are some guys who start in the Supreme midcard who can move up to the main event very quickly. Angry Gilmore and Randy Bumfhole both became main eventers for me almost by accident. No heavy push, just a solid storyline plus being on-screen constantly. I definitely agree its a bad idea to be overpushing guys before they are ready. Its easy enough to build popularity relatively quickly just by having them on-screen if they are decent workers. By doing it gradually, you aren't having to worry about them developing an attitude and you aren't burying other workers. With a promotion like SWF, its not a bad idea to have a few outright jobbers. Midcard guys with decent performance skills who's only real use is taking losses. There are guys on the roster you can do that with, but I prefer bringing in workers for that specific role. Thats the only reason American Elemental had a spot in my one game.

[pepper2008]

Use jobbers or workers in short term (5 appearances contract) in dark matches too give your jobber to the stars guys some needed wins to make them happy without sacrificing a loss to your other jobber to the stars

[Sigilistic]

I just wanted to say this is a very good, very useful thread and it has inspired me to jump ship from my beloved TCW and try an SWF game. We need more threads like this.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=pepper2008;525480]Use jobbers or workers in short term (5 appearances contract) in dark matches too give your jobber to the stars guys some needed wins to make them happy without sacrificing a loss to your other jobber to the stars[/QUOTE] Another good idea. Since you want to add a couple good trainers to RIPW, they can also be used as occasional jobbers. [QUOTE=Sigilistic;525778]I just wanted to say this is a very good, very useful thread and it has inspired me to jump ship from my beloved TCW and try an SWF game. We need more threads like this.[/QUOTE] I thought it would be kinda cool to have promotion-specific threads to explain what has or hasn't worked for different people. Thought of doing one for TCW, but I'll leave it to someone else if they have the ambition - I've played as Total a few times but not as thoroughly and often as SWF. Glad to see a convert. SWF is plain old fun, I find. Not the biggest challenge, obviously, but fun.

[Astil]

I will say this about 9. RIPW is a godsent.

[Bigpapa42]

[B]13. Use Your Development Territory[/B] It seems like everyone wants to get a developmental promotion, regardless of what promotion they use. Well, the SWF starts with one. And even better, the product matches, so the developmental workers are developing into SWF-style workers. However, using your developmental territory properly means more than just filling it with young talent. That's a good start. But you need trainers. Anyone with good skills can make a good trainer, in theory. But a lot of workers, especially ones who aren't that old, don't seem to want to. The trainers should have good performance skills and be strong in at least one area. The trainers I've found willing to train others and quite effective from the start are Steve Flash, Larry Wood, The Great Hisato, and Jose Figo Manico. I also assigned Katie Cameron and Adrian Garcia down for a bit for their entertainment skills and both were willing to go. Further down the road, watched for skillful workers retiring. Beyond that, you can use RIPW to good effect through the game. Have a veteran worker you don't have a use for at the moment? Send them down to train. If you want someone like Enforcer Roberts, Enygma, or even Rich Money off-screen for a bit for story reasons, there's a use for them during that time! And as for the younger guys on your roster, some short stints in development can't hurt either if they aren't getting matches very often. [B]14. Find Your Challenge[/B] I've mentioned a few times that SWF isn't the most challenging promotion in the game. It might be the least challenging, in many ways. But that doesn't mean there isn't anything to it. Obviously you can run the game in Straight Edge mode and have owner goals to deal with. But whether you do that or not, it can be really fun to set challenges for yourself. They can be whatever you want. See if you can actually turn Big Smack Scott into a decent worker. Try to get Runaway Train's popularity back up to the point he can carry the World title. Build a tag team division strong enough to carry an A-show all on its own. Rebuild as much of the roster of DaVE as you can on a separate brand. See how much you can ruin a great young talent by giving them a Jesus push. Push a terrible worker to the top of the card just to see if popularity really will carry them. See if you can get an average worker popular to the point of them being able to carry a top belt without having to give them a monster push. The size, product, and money of the SWF give you endless options to have fun, really.

[Sigilistic]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;525832] I thought it would be kinda cool to have promotion-specific threads to explain what has or hasn't worked for different people. Thought of doing one for TCW, but I'll leave it to someone else if they have the ambition - I've played as Total a few times but not as thoroughly and often as SWF. .[/QUOTE] I would LOVE to see a TCW thread like this. Or really, any other fed as well. If I work up the gumption, I might do a TCW thread, offering insights from my dozens of games with TCW in 08.

[Stennick]

Yeah a TCW, USPW, hell even some of the over seas promotions would be fun.

[Frank_Vest]

[QUOTE=Sigilistic;526024]I would LOVE to see a TCW thread like this. Or really, any other fed as well. If I work up the gumption, I might do a TCW thread, offering insights from my dozens of games with TCW in 08.[/QUOTE] Please do this! I enjoy playing as TCW but some inside knowledge would be helpful.

[ThriceP86]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;522610] [B]10. Crossover Storylines[/B] This is a favorite of mine with any promotion but works particularly well with Supreme. I tend to use unchained storylines and make good use of minor characters. It works because I have stories that are intended to be interconnected. For example, if I have a major heel stable with three top level wrestlers, they will each have individual feuds. But they would obviously be connected. So each feud would be set up with as a two-person unchained storyline, but with the minor characters the four workers from the other storylines. So you can have one angle with multiple characters affecting several storylines. Which is, to me, realistic. [/QUOTE] That is a great idea. Why didn't I think of it before? Thanks for these tips as they are not only useful for SWF but for some of the other promotions that are alike. Although, don't you think having crossover storylines might hurt each other? Especially when they start to stink?

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=ThriceP86;526554]That is a great idea. Why didn't I think of it before? Thanks for these tips as they are not only useful for SWF but for some of the other promotions that are alike. Although, don't you think having crossover storylines might hurt each other? Especially when they start to stink?[/QUOTE] Crossing over storylines can hurt occasionally. Especially if you include a worker without good overness or momentum in one of the main storylines, or crossover a main storyline with a lesser one. But if you're careful, it doesn't hurt very often. In my current SWF games, I used the same set of storylines from January through June. I had four primary storylines based around my main eventers, all interconnected. They pretty much all maintained A/A* momentum that entire time and I could've kept them going for awhile longer if it wasn't time to change things up. I first started doing it when I first played TEW08, using CGC. I had a main storyline for each of the DeColt's but they were all interconnected. So I would have two of three of them doing promos that would cover all three of the feuds. It just made sense to do it this way and it carried over into SWF and TCW. I find it works pretty well with the Syndicate/Alliance storyline in TCW that I usually do as well.

[Astil]

I respectfully disagree. Big Smack Scott is useless.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=Astil;526574]I respectfully disagree. Big Smack Scott is useless.[/QUOTE] In the ring, I'd have to agree with you. But he has good enough entertainment skills to be useful in other ways. He would make a pretty good bodyguard, or even an authority figure. You could do something like that with him while you put him in dark matches against quality workers to try to get his actual skills up a bit. Takes some patience, though.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;526579]In the ring, I'd have to agree with you. But he has good enough entertainment skills to be useful in other ways. He would make a pretty good bodyguard, or even an authority figure. You could do something like that with him while you put him in dark matches against quality workers to try to get his actual skills up a bit. Takes some patience, though.[/QUOTE] I love, in my games, to try and take one or two guys who it's common knowledge can't make it and get them to the point where if it were real I'd be happy watching them. My SWF game planned to make that Scott. Then Richard Eisen's first set of owner goals meant he'd make the boss angry with me over Psych, Safety, Basics, and drugs when he re-upped - and the contract fell due before any of them.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=Phantom Stranger;526583]I love, in my games, to try and take one or two guys who it's common knowledge can't make it and get them to the point where if it were real I'd be happy watching them. My SWF game planned to make that Scott. Then Richard Eisen's first set of owner goals meant he'd make the boss angry with me over Psych, Safety, Basics, and drugs when he re-upped - and the contract fell due before any of them.[/QUOTE] Its an extra challenge. Especially in a game like SWF, where there isn't that much challenge in terms of growing or even maintaining the current popularity. As I pointed out in an earlier post, it can be really fun to add in your own little challenges. Developing the useless lump BSS can definitely one of those challenges. I've tried to make it worth a couple of times in a couple of different games. Never have. I eventually piss him off with the drug testing and he pisses me of and gets fired over it. Again, I think the flexibility that SWF gives you do "projects" like that is part of what makes it fun. A lot of smaller promotions where money is factor and you're constantly trying to grow, you probably just wouldn't want to take the risk.

[Sigilistic]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;526579]You could do something like that with him while you put him in dark matches against quality workers to try to get his actual skills up a bit. Takes some patience, though.[/QUOTE] And opponents with incredibly high Resilience so Scott doesn't kill them.

[pepper2008]

The beauty of short term jobbers, is for them to be fed to the Monster known as BIG SMACK SCOTT. Imagine ypu can hear it know as the arena speakers start the chant HERE COMES THE PAIN, with amazing pyros in the background. Scott dominates his opponent in 2 minutes, hopely not enough time to maim anyone else.

[ThriceP86]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;526569]Crossing over storylines can hurt occasionally. Especially if you include a worker without good overness or momentum in one of the main storylines, or crossover a main storyline with a lesser one. But if you're careful, it doesn't hurt very often. In my current SWF games, I used the same set of storylines from January through June. I had four primary storylines based around my main eventers, all interconnected. They pretty much all maintained A/A* momentum that entire time and I could've kept them going for awhile longer if it wasn't time to change things up. I first started doing it when I first played TEW08, using CGC. I had a main storyline for each of the DeColt's but they were all interconnected. So I would have two of three of them doing promos that would cover all three of the feuds. It just made sense to do it this way and it carried over into SWF and TCW. I find it works pretty well with the Syndicate/Alliance storyline in TCW that I usually do as well.[/QUOTE] Bigpapa, what if you use it in a fed that builds more on performance than popularity? I mean, I'm thinking of testing this out on a revitalized game for INSPIRE and I'm just not sure if it would work there. I've even looked at how the computer plays INSPIRE on my other games and they never do tag matches and it seems to be the only way to mix storylines/feuds in that fed. By the way, I suggest if anyone is looking for a different fed to use then try INSPIRE. The matches are intense but it makes it a challenge to keep your workers healthy.

[hrdcoresidebrns]

[QUOTE=ThriceP86;526869]Bigpapa, what if you use it in a fed that builds more on performance than popularity? I mean, I'm thinking of testing this out on a revitalized game for INSPIRE and I'm just not sure if it would work there. I've even looked at how the computer plays INSPIRE on my other games and they never do tag matches and it seems to be the only way to mix storylines/feuds in that fed. By the way, I suggest if anyone is looking for a different fed to use then try INSPIRE. The matches are intense but it makes it a challenge to keep your workers healthy.[/QUOTE] The computer won't do tag matches in INSPIRE due to the product settings - their match ratio is 100% singles bouts to better simulate MMA, which is what the promotion is designed to do. However, when you play as the company, you don't have to adhere to that, and book tag matches if you like. I'm not sure if there's a penalty as far as the ratings are concerned, but you should be able to edit the product at the start to include tag matches without any penalty to your fanbase.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=ThriceP86;526869]Bigpapa, what if you use it in a fed that builds more on performance than popularity? I mean, I'm thinking of testing this out on a revitalized game for INSPIRE and I'm just not sure if it would work there. I've even looked at how the computer plays INSPIRE on my other games and they never do tag matches and it seems to be the only way to mix storylines/feuds in that fed. By the way, I suggest if anyone is looking for a different fed to use then try INSPIRE. The matches are intense but it makes it a challenge to keep your workers healthy.[/QUOTE] Hmmm... I could see it working very well or bombing badly. I've never tried the approach in a pure wrestling promotion which doesn't really allow the use of angles. The use of angles is pretty key. A problem is that storylines drop after two weeks if they don't have a segment. The appeal of this in an entertainment promotion is that one segment - whether angle or match - can potentially effect two or three storylines. In a pure fed, you really only have matches to do that. And you can't have run-ins to add to the fray. That makes it tougher. I guess you get have really short segments - promo vids, handshakes, etc - that the fans might not crap on. I'm just really not certain. If you do try it, I'd be curious to know if its workable.

[Phantom Stranger]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;526965]A problem is that storylines drop after two weeks if they don't have a segment. [/QUOTE] Measured in shows rather than weeks, actually. Remember that the bulk of non-touring promotions in the game need to work up to having shows even every two weeks.