Group Discussion.

[Blasphemywebleed]

Hey folks, I'd just like to put to you a topic for discussion which my friends and I where talking about last night and i'd like to know if other people would share out views on it. This is based on a true situation which involves my circle of friends so i'd appreciate sensitivity. And remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion so please don't flame people if you don't agree with them. Ok now for the story: [B]A boy, we will call him Bob, while attending high school found himself on the wrong end of a bully, well will call him Steve, and as a result the next 5 years of his life was a living hell. It resulted in weekly beatings every Friday (not from the bully himself but from a group of the Steve's older friends) and in the most extreme case even ended up with his girlfriend being assaulted. In an unexpected turn of events one of Bob's friends, we will call her Sue, started a relationship with Steve. It turned out to very abusive and Sue hasn't been able to trust a man since. The bullying of Bob continued until he left school. After school had finished Bob moved away from his hometown to start fresh. He hasn't seen Steve in 6 years. Recently Bob was watching the news when his hometown was mentioned. He continued watching to discover that Steve had been murdered in the street in a frenzied knife attack where he was stabbed a reported 37 times. The killer was a local man who had been attending a Psychologist since he left school to try and repair the damage that Steve's bullying had inflicted [/B] Now to the debate. Forget the killer, we don't know enough about what happened there to question motive etc. But how should Bob feel? The poll will be private so no one will know your answer if you don't want to elaborate. But again please discuss in a calm manner as I am genuinley interested in your responses. 1. Happy that [I]justice [/I] has been done. (3 out of 5 of my friends chose this answer) 2. Sorrow at the loss of human life 3. No feelings either way as it was 6 years ago since he last seen Steve. (2 out of 5 of my friends went for this answer).

[sabataged]

[QUOTE=Blasphemywebleed;538113]Hey folks, I'd just like to put to you a topic for discussion which my friends and I where talking about last night and i'd like to know if other people would share out views on it. This is based on a true situation which involves my circle of friends so i'd appreciate sensitivity. And remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion so please don't flame people if you don't agree with them. Ok now for the story: [B]A boy, we will call him Bob, while attending high school found himself on the wrong end of a bully, well will call him Steve, and as a result the next 5 years of his life was a living hell. It resulted in weekly beatings every Friday (not from the bully himself but from a group of the Steve's older friends) and in the most extreme case even ended up with his girlfriend being assaulted. In an unexpected turn of events one of Bob's friends, we will call her Sue, started a relationship with Steve. It turned out to very abusive and Sue hasn't been able to trust a man since. The bullying of Bob continued until he left school. After school had finished Bob moved away from his hometown to start fresh. He hasn't seen Steve in 6 years. Recently Bob was watching the news when his hometown was mentioned. He continued watching to discover that Steve had been murdered in the street in a frenzied knife attack where he was stabbed a reported 37 times. The killer was a local man who had been attending a Psychologist since he left school to try and repair the damage that Steve's bullying had inflicted [/B] Now to the debate. Forget the killer, we don't know enough about what happened there to question motive etc. But how should Bob feel? The poll will be private so no one will know your answer if you don't want to elaborate. But again please discuss in a calm manner as I am genuinley interested in your responses. 1. Happy that [I]justice [/I] has been done. (3 out of my of my friends chose this answer) 2. Sorrow at the loss of human life 3. No feelings either way as it was 6 years ago since he last seen Steve. (2 out of 5 of my friends went for this answer).[/QUOTE] I myself chose #3. I am more or less a person with a don't give a crap attitude when it comes to petty stuff or past stuff. I don't know how extensive the beatings (I mean was Bob ever hospitalized or had to seek medical attention?). So depending on the severity of the attacks. I would say #3, maybe for that quick second I heard it, I would feel #1, but in the end it would be #3 because in a few days/week I would forget all about it and carry on.

[Blasphemywebleed]

[QUOTE=sabataged;538115]I myself chose #3. I am more or less a person with a don't give a crap attitude when it comes to petty stuff or past stuff. I don't know how extensive the beatings (I mean was Bob ever hospitalized or had to seek medical attention?). So depending on the severity of the attacks. I would say #3, maybe for that quick second I heard it, I would feel #1, but in the end it would be #3 because in a few days/week I would forget all about it and carry on.[/QUOTE] He was hospitalised on one occasion with a broken wrist, ankle and cracked ribs. This was on the one occasion that a weapon was used. The rest of the time was cuts, bruises, black eyes etc.

[Self]

I voted for option one, although I think 'Happy' may be a little strong a term. Much like 'Bob', I was bullied in high school, although nowhere near to the extent of this situation. A few years ago, I heard one of the biggest culprits was in jail. I allowed myself a smug smile. Of course, the story of Bob & Steve takes things to extremes I'm glad I've never had to deal with, but relating my own limited experiences, I see no fault if Bob was to take pleasure in this news. The past can be hard to let go. Very few of us have had the cathartic Hollywood experience of getting back at our enemies on the last day of school. They torture us, make us feel weak, cripple us in ways they can't even imagine, and suddenly they're out of our lives. Without resolution. Without closure. Every once in a while you're reminding of what it felt like to be so powerless, and... It's hard to completely let that go.

[WrestleManiac]

I think happy is the right word. Having been the victim of bullies myself when I read about Bob and Steve I felt a smug smile stretch across my face. If only my bullies could face a similer fate. Instead I bump into them occasionaly and they act like nothing happened and I should be all "grown up and mature" about things and forget the past. But, like Self said, the past isn't always that easy to let go of.

[Comradebot]

I remember back in Pre-K, when I was four... There was a bully there who liked to hit kids and steal their toys. One day, he once again targetted me and tried to steal my favorite toy dinosaur (it should be noted that as a child, and even to today, I frakking LOVE dinosaurs. Far and vastly more so than any other kid), a psittacosaurus that I was extremely fond of. Having enough of his BS, I wrestled my psittacosaurus from his literally greasy hand and then proceeded to level him with a well placed punched, followed by the phrase "I hope you die." A month later, summer came... which he went to spend with family on a farm. During his stay at the farm, there was some kind of accident involving a piece of farm equipment where the five year old bully in question's head was sliced off. I've never told another person "I hope you die." Sure, he was a dick, but even I knew then he was just a kid. Then again, maybe he shouldn't have tried to steal my toy psittacosaurus.

[Comradebot]

It should also be noted I voted for number one, however. A young child is one thing, but if you're old enough to abuse a girl in a relationship, then you're old enough to be brutally stabbed to death and you have it coming. Sounds to me Steve wasn't just a bully, but a piece of **** human being who would've been nothing but piss in the gene pool.

[wilts]

OK, I am not a religious nut or anything like that, in fact, not religious AT ALL, but I went for option 2. Whilst I think maybe sorrow is a bit strong, except for in the most extreme cases, it is a little hard not to have any feelings about the death of a human being. Fact is, if it was Bin Laden, I would say option 1, but we all know the deal there. With this case, we don't know much about the guy, I have read many articles and witnessed many discussions about bullies, and what triggers them to act the way they do, and without knowing his full story I think the only humain option to choose is 2. Whilst I am not 1 of those people that excuses Hitler because his mommy told him off once, I do believe people can be pushed into a certain direction, be it good or bad. Hope this makes sense.

[wilts]

[QUOTE=Blasphemywebleed;538113] 1. Happy that [I]justice [/I] has been done. (3 out of 5 of my friends chose this answer) 2. Sorrow at the loss of human life 3. No feelings either way as it was 6 years ago since he last seen Steve. (2 out of 5 of my friends went for this answer).[/QUOTE] Any chance we could find out what you went for?

[Self]

The death aspect is certainly a thinking point. If I imagine my former foes ending up in jail, I think 'Good', but imagining them dying is... I don't know what the reaction would be. Perhaps the same. I'm not the greatest person in the world. My reactions to death aren't as sensitive as you might expect from a person (I made some jokes on the night Heath Ledger died that others wouldn't be proud of) and I fully believe that some people don't deserve to live. You know what, the dude beat up 'Sue' and sent him to the hospital multiple times. On purpose. Apparently he did this to several people. He f'n deserved it. I'm not saying Bob should spend the day doing struts and cartwheels, but a little pleasure wouldn't be out of the question.

[wilts]

OK Self, where do you draw the line then? This bully sent people to the hospital and abused Sue, What about a guy that just beat people up but didn't abuse any females? What if your brother was the bully, but you knew the real him and loved him because he was your brother, how would you feel if people took pleasure in his death?

[Self]

[QUOTE=wilts;538144]OK Self, where do you draw the line then? This bully sent people to the hospital and abused Sue, What about a guy that just beat people up but didn't abuse any females? What if your brother was the bully, but you knew the real him and loved him because he was your brother, how would you feel if people took pleasure in his death?[/QUOTE] The abuse of Sue doesn't have much of an affect on my decision to be honest. Certainly no more than breaking Bob's wrist etc. Knowingly, willingly, assaulting someone, tormenting someone, multiple times... it's all the same animal to me. Beating up women & beating up men are equally bad, you're still picking on someone weaker than you. [I](The above statement is made using the assumption that Bob didn't do anything to deserve it, and that he is, indeed, weaker/smaller than Steve.)[/I] As for the brother thing... I can't really answer that until I'm actually, factually put into that situation. It's a tough one. I have a brother. He has done a lot of things I disagree with... Hmm. I like to think I wouldn't begrudge those he harmed any ill-will for taking pleasure. If they came up to me and told me that they were happy, then that would be a different story. I would likely (try to) kick their asses, and feel justified in doing it. Because then they'd be bullying me, in a weird way. My moral code pretty much runs to "[I]do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else[/I]." I'm not the perfect example of morality, I react from the gut.

[wilts]

OK, so based on the facts that we know, then you have given your opinion. How about we expand the story a bit, and say that the bully was abused by his father everyday and a psychologist can prove that this was the route of his behavioural problems/bullying? Then how would you answer the poll? And not at all related to this, but I just had to post this, thought there may be some that will take pleasure in it... [IMG]http://wrestlingbay.com/images/smilies/damn.gif[/IMG]

[Blasphemywebleed]

[QUOTE=wilts;538133]Any chance we could find out what you went for?[/QUOTE] I went for number 1. Althought I wasn't affected as much as "Bob" was it was still a tough time for me, especially when it affected "Sue". When I was told about it I couldn't help but smile to be blatantly honest. I do feel sorry for his mother though, she is a nice woman and although she knew her son wasn't a nice person, his character is being destroyed in the media and it's a shame she has to read all this before he is even buried.

[Comradebot]

I agree with Self here. Call me evil, but the one thing I can't stand is how when ANYONE dies we suddenly make them sound like they were the greatest person to ever live and anyone who says otherwise is a piece of ****. I'm sorry, but I know people who are truly awful people and if they were to die tomorrow then no one would accept a person mentioning what a complete bastard they were. In all honesty, if this Steve were my brother... yeah, I'd be upset at his death. At the same time, I'd be understanding of the people who took pleasure in it. Maybe it helps to know what its like to be Bob, as up until the start of high school I was in the same situation as Bob. I remember once in Middle School I knelt down to tie my shoe and one bully decided to kick me in the side of the head as hard as he could. I recieved a concussion, and then a coach ran over screaming at me for "laying around." The only reason bullies stopped (well, for the most part) screwing with me was because I started fighting back. But I still kept my eye on them. A couple of them changed to be better people, mostly the guys who were more or less flunkies of the prime bullies. The prime guys though? They didn't. They stayed pieces of human **** and remain so till this day. And I know some of them are very much like "Steve". Thankfully I don't have a brother like that, so maybe I can't see the whole viewpoint... but a person like that? Someone who beats up on girls, or gets a group of buddies together to assault any other person for that matter... They don't deserve to live. And that's why I DO care. I care that someone so vile can't inflinct harm on anyone else, ever. He's gone and the world as a whole becomes better for it.

[Blasphemywebleed]

[QUOTE=wilts;538156]OK, so based on the facts that we know, then you have given your opinion. How about we expand the story a bit, and say that the bully was abused by his father everyday and a psychologist can prove that this was the route of his behavioural problems/bullying? Then how would you answer the poll? [/QUOTE] I don't think him being abused by his father would change my answer or Bob's answer although I don't speak for Bob, i'm just guessing. Just like I don't beleive Steves killer had the right to do so because he was bullied. The logic of bullying someone because they themselves are being bullied is lost on me. If you are walking down the street and a bird craps on you, do you then seek someone to crap on? :p

[Slim Jim]

I went for option one, though happy probably isn't the best word for it. He had it coming to him, so it's hard to feel sorry for him from a completely neutral perspective, so being the person he had done those things to, I would imagine you would feel satisfied that he got what he deserved. If he hadn't been a bully, it wouldn't have happened so... yeah. I had a couple of rough years at the end of primary school with bullying and not too long ago ran into the people that did it. Being a few years older, a few feet taller and a few stone heavier, with a lot more confidence... it was a good experience to "catch up" - since they seemingly didn't remember the previous dynamic of our relationship - and find out that they had achieved a sum total amounting to nothing. That made me smile for the rest of the day. Though generally, bullies tend to do it because they have some underlying insecurity or weakness themselves that they are trying to cover up. So at times, thinking rationally, I can feel a little bit sorry for them... but then I think we all have our issues, and there's no need to take them out on other people.

[wilts]

OK, I am obviously in the minority here, and that doesn't bother me one bit. What does bother me is that the world has gotten to the point where I am the majority... Very interesting topic Blasphemy, thank you. Have a good 1 all.

[Comradebot]

[QUOTE=Blasphemywebleed;538162]I don't think him being abused by his father would change my answer or Bob's answer although I don't speak for Bob, i'm just guessing. Just like I don't beleive Steves killer had the right to do so because he was bullied. The logic of bullying someone because they themselves are being bullied is lost on me. If you are walking down the street and a bird craps on you, do you then seek someone to crap on? :p[/QUOTE] How many people who go on killing sprees start saying "I was abused!!!" And? Its a ridiculous excuse. Sadly, I know plenty of people who suffered through physical, verbal, and even sexual abuse at the hands of someone in their family. While there's some emotional scarring there, I don't recall any of them deciding it'd be a swell idea to beat a "Bob" with a weapon and send him to the hospital. Just a poor excuse to be a piece of crap, and it doesn't change my opinion. And I agree that the killer had no right to kill him... even if Steve really, really had it coming.

[Self]

[QUOTE=wilts;538167]OK, I am obviously in the minority here, and that doesn't bother me one bit. What does bother me is that the world has gotten to the point where I am the majority... Very interesting topic Blasphemy, thank you. Have a good 1 all.[/QUOTE] I agree. Very nice topic... Other than opening some old wounds :) Wilts, I'd argue that you're a better man than I. Nice discussing things with you.

[RKO_HBK]

As someone who was bullied (as in, having the crap beat out of me pretty much every other day for 3 years), I went with happy because of justice. In every other case, I'd be fully against that attitude in the case of death but I won't lie and say I'm not bitter towards the guy who did it to me. After all he did to me (and his mates, who conveniently only did anything when I was on my own and there were at least 5 of them), I'll admit I was happy when I found out that he failed all his exams, has no job prospects, spent 2 years in prison and just signed on. Not something I'm at all proud of, but that's pretty much my reason for going with the first thing, because I know if I heard it had happened to him, I'd feel absolutely no sadness (and I've not seen him since he got expelled for knocking me unconscious and nearly breaking my neck 5 or 6 years ago). Anyway, nice little emotional rant over, back to catching up on mafia :p

[wilts]

[QUOTE=Self;538178]I agree. Very nice topic... Other than opening some old wounds :) Wilts, I'd argue that you're a better man than I. Nice discussing things with you.[/QUOTE] Thanks Self, nice discussing with you too. I think I already said it, if not then I will now. I can completely understand why people believe Bob should feel justice has been served, or take some pleasure in the news. Bullying is an awful thing, even more so when you consider that it is generally kids that suffer, although I know adults can be subjected to it too. There is not a person alive that deserves to be bullied, but unfortunately it does occur. Also, in case anyone was wondering, yes I was subjected to bullies at times throughout my school years, as I am sure most people were, and have also had other hardships (that need not be discussed here), but I like to think that the way I have dealt with it has made me a better man. I do not like to dwell on the past, either for sadness and regret or for pleasure. The past should stay just where it is. when it comes up, I take pride in the way I dealt with it, as I feel most victims of bullies should, you have all gotten through it, and as was said earlier, generally the people that are bullies at school ammount to pretty much nothing and lead very disappointing lives. I don't take pleasure in their suffering, I pitty them for being such small and worthless human beings.... Anyway, enough said I think. Hope it all makes sense.

[FINisher]

Interesting story. I've been bullied from the first grade to.. 9th and beyond. Even in the upper secondary school, which could be viewed as 10th to 12th year in school. I voted for the first one. That's life. Sometimes what you leave behind, you'll find in front of you. And that is what happened to Steve. I wouldn't feel sorry for one bit if I heard any bad news concerning the ones that have bullied me when I was young. EDIT: A bit more of my thoughts: I for one would not kill anyone over the subject, that I was bullied in school, quite badly from time to time. But if I would see someone from the past, I would say something really heavy as nowadays I have selfconfidence and trust in myself, something that I lacked so many years when I was just a kid. All in all: Steve had it coming. And if I were Bob, I would not be "happy", but I wouldn't miss Steve, or feel sorry for him or his family. Maybe on the back of my mind there would be a thought "Serves him right."

[wilts]

[QUOTE=FINisher;538194]or feel sorry for him or his family.[/QUOTE] Like I said, I could understand a feeling of justice, etc. but what does his family have to do with it? I personally feel sorry for any parent* that loses a child, despite the child. *There are exceptions to this though.

[Astil]

Human life is human life, and a human can always turn it around and become a good person. And any good person deserves to live, regardless of past. That's my stand.