Rene777 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 What is a Neocon? "Neocon 101 Some basic questions answered. What do neoconservatives believe? "Neocons" believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action. Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster. Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security. " [url]http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html[/url] To my mind this is the rise of a new facist element in American politics. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdt_74 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Welcomed subject I suppose that you are American, right? Well i´m Portuguese and not only do I share your view as i think that Americans have just elected them to government. Do Americans have any idea of what the rest of the world thinks of them? Has the USA turned into a country wich believes that war will help democratize the rest of the planet? I have my own answers to this questions but i would like to hear your views on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Think of it this way. The Roman Empire has not fallen. The United States adopted the same government ideas, currency ideas, trading ideas, and the same military ideas from the old Roman Empire. We are the Roman Empire of the modern age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 ...... and yes, I am an American and proud to be one. I could care less what other countries think of us. But those same countries [B][I][U]LOVE[/U][/I][/B] our money (our financial backing) and free food we send to them each and every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdt_74 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I get the point but... do not forget that every empire that has ever existed has fallen. Imagine if the Chinese shared your view, they have the potential to be a much more potent threat than the US! And i am not questioning your pride of being American, in fact i think that you should! After all i am proud of being Portugese! But i do not have pride on war and forceful domination. Briefly, i think that an arrogant posture like that leads nowhere because it shows that you´re not really interessed in confronting positions and knowledge, you´re just interessed in overpowering others with your propaganda. ...and Hitler tried that in Europe 60 years ago! Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 How much money (or companies) is sent to your country every year? Can you answer that? I already have the answer to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 I think on the whole SDT that the American public likes the idea of perpetual war, but can't stand the idea that war has natural consequences (such as dead people). It appears to me that most folks simply has not thought very deeply on the issue of what it means to engage in aggressive first strike offensive actions. One example is to deny that a draft will be necessary, even though it is evident that the American military is stretched to the max at the moment. Yes SDT we love war as long as it stays on the screen and does not cost us anything of any significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Here's a real good site explaining our stance with Portugal. [url]http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3208.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 So Maximus what should we do with these enemies of the American empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdt_74 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 What? Did you even bother to read what i wrote? :eek: I guess not, you gotta be busy accounting for the amounts of money owed to your country. One thing you should be proud of is that your country is helping other nations get better and evolve! Not creating wars around the globe! As i wrote before it´s of no use discussing any subject of any kind with one so narrow minded. PEACE! Just got a hold on your post Renee777, and that´s just what i was hoping for! A person with poise and insight. That meets my view on how Americans view themselves and the rest of the world, but i gotta admit that your foreign policy is scary and you don´t seem to look inside and see the problems that you face in your own country, wich are serious. As for the neocons, well i think that you got a real problem there but hopefully you´ll turn it around in 4 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=Rene777]So Maximus what should we do with these enemies of the American empire?[/QUOTE] DESTROY THEM ALL!! MmmmWahahahahahaha To be serious Rene, I really do not think we have as many enemies as people think. Sure the Arab countires hate us, as does the N. Koreans. However, most of Europe (whom we delivered from ****sm in 1945) are with us. Spain was attacked this year and they backed out of the war in Iraq. Gee, I wonder how many people in their own respective countires would just site back, take it in the butt and allow for cowards to terrorize their country. After 9-11, the United States of America didn't. We went out, went to their homes, waited at the front door and poored our anger on them. Hammerd their pride. We took [U]their[/U] war to their territory, now they don't like it. From the West comes the once sleeping Giant From the East sits the cowardly defiant I am more driven than before I live just to settle score I feel the nearness of your breath I introduce you to your death I can't punch hard enough I can't kick high enough I can't shoot straight enough I can't hold on enough Appeasement only makes the aggressor more aggressive He understands only one language - action And he respects only one word - force The force to be used to take out the terrorist faction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=sdt_74]Did you even bother to read what i wrote? :eek: I guess not, you gotta be busy accounting for the amounts of money owed to your country. One thing you should be proud of is that your country is helping other nations get better and evolve! Not creating wars around the globe! As i wrote before it´s of no use discussing any subject of any kind with one so narrow minded. PEACE! Just got a hold on your post Renee777, and that´s just what i was hoping for! A person with poise and insight. That meets my view on how Americans view themselves and the rest of the world, but i gotta admit that your foreign policy is scary and you don´t seem to look inside and see the problems that you face in your own country, wich are serious. As for the neocons, well i think that you got a real problem there but hopefully you´ll turn it around in 4 years time.[/QUOTE] There is no problem unless you create it. The US has sacrificed for your counrtry sdt. Show your respect to at least the veterans that died on your land. Peace was a gift that alot of people died for and alot of them were Americans, the same "Neocons" you speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdt_74 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Invade us...please! That it Maximus! Invade us! Maybe then you can tell me what´s the bill! We need a change so bad that maybe that´s the solution for my 10 million people country! Our unemployment rate has to be dangerous for the world economy! You must think that i don´t know that my country is broke! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I just want to chime in here for one second. sdt, I have no personal issues with you or your views. Please do not take what I say as a personal attack. There are two (or more) sides at all times. I respect your opinion but since I live here in the United States, my feelings are a bit different than yours because yes, the 9-11 attacks did affect my feelings towards how we should handle things, esp terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=sdt_74]That it Maximus! Invade us! Maybe then you can tell me what´s the bill! We need a change so bad that maybe that´s the solution for my 10 million people country! Our unemployment rate has to be dangerous for the world economy! You must think that i don´t know that my country is broke! :D[/QUOTE] No, in fact your country is a big supporter of the US (at least your government is). Invading and then conquering isn't what the US is about. Invading the rat bastards (and those who support them) that fly air planes into innocent civilians is different story. Those that take such action will see a re-action of domination. yes, im a bit pridefull but like I said, 9-11 had a profound effect on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdt_74 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Now we´re talking That´s the kind of view i expect, but i got to say you expose your points a bit to strongly. Hey i don´t have any problems with the US and its people, in fact i don´t have any problem in stating that your culture and way of life have influenced me a and many more people around the world in a good way. What i can´t agree with is some of the political actions you´re government as taken as far as foreign politics are concerned. But as you´ve written there are always 2 sides and therefore 2 points of view. I agree that 9-11 attacks were horrible and must have had (i can´t imagine how much) a profound effect (and rightly so) on the american people. Don´t get me wrong for asking this but maybe you can tell me: if you´re government is after those terrorists so badly, how come haven´t they caught osama? A couple of billion should do the trick, but he´s still doing tourist videos from wherever he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 [QUOTE=sdt_74]Don´t get me wrong for asking this but maybe you can tell me: if you´re government is after those terrorists so badly, how come haven´t they caught osama? A couple of billion should do the trick, but he´s still doing tourist videos from wherever he is.[/QUOTE] Thats one thing about our government that is decieving. How do we really know that we haven't but yet still use him as a vehicle? Its possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 "No, in fact your country is a big supporter of the US (at least your government is). Invading and then conquering isn't what the US is about. Invading the rat bastards (and those who support them) that fly air planes into innocent civilians is different story. Those that take such action will see a re-action of domination. " Invading and conqueroring is excatly what we are about under the Neocon umbrella Maximus. That is what the article and I have been pointing out. Thats the implied point of this thread. I think that it is sad when the Neocons clearly have informed us what they are going to do, and some how on these forums we deny what has already been done. Goebbels would be impressed indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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