Kelly J Delaney Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I can't even begin with what happened in Detroit with the Pistons and Pacers. I have only 2 things to say. 1. A good bunch of Piston fans are classless. Not all, just some. 2. Artest is lucky. If Wallace would have gotten his hands on him, DJ Ron would have been beaten senseless. Now I am not going to condemn all of Detroit. But come on. Artest is just as much to blame as is Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson. Detroit fan, you know better, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly J Delaney Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Also, why does Jim Grey sound like he is about to cry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacersfan46 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I haven't seen any of it, but all I can think is if somone hits you in the face with a bottle unexpectedly, you're going to be inclined to fight. I don't care who you are. I'll reply more when I actually see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly J Delaney Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Actually, a cup of something hit DJ Ronnie in the chest as he was laying on the scorers table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Weimer Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 It was a cup of beer and it was about 2 inches from hitting him in the face. So close enough. Jim Gray was shaken up because he was right in the middle of the whole mess. He was down on the court with the ESPN camera crew as it was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly J Delaney Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 So from the sounds of it, do you condone what the Pacer players did? My feeling are that they, players and fans, are both to blame. Detroit fan lived up to their billing. Pacer players were "justified" so to say, but were wrong. There is no right about going into the stands. Everybody loses. Over the next few weeks, if not longer, you will hear the words "suspensions" and "law suits" instead of slam dunks and layups. And please don't come to me and say "yeah, well what would you do if I threw blank at you?" I would pick up the first thing I could grab and bust it over your head. Would I be justified? Probably. Would I be wrong? definately. And finally, why couldn't a fan or player beat up on Bill Walton? Or better yet, Stephen A Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene777 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I just saw the incidence on TV. It appears to me that this just shows how our culture has moved toward a lack of concern and dehumanization of others. I expect more of these kind of things to happen as the level of civility continues to go down in this country. The blame for such behavior, in my mind, lies at the feet of those who think and act as if there are no boundaries in public or private behvior. Very sad indeed. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Theman Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 I'll have to agree with Rene. The entire situation was disgusting. Hard fouls happen & emotions get out of control, sure. There will always be pushing, shoving, and the occasional puch or two from time to time. Afterall, many athletes are simply 12-year-old boys in grown-up bodies. As for fans, it's interesting that the somewhat imaginary investment each fan has in the team (afterall, we [b][u]ARE[/b][/u] rooting for laundry, and nobody roots for a team because they buy a ticket - it's the other way around) can sometimes manifest itself in the form of a physical & emotional reaction. I'm from Cleveland. We HATE Pittsburgh and believe Art Modell is the devil incarnate. We also believe that Michael Jordan had a personal vendetta against us, the Indians are the only team the Yankees have ever ticked off, Michigan is evil (sorry, Gary), and that Cleveland is the only city whose sports teams have a "curse" of losing that hangs around them. Well, maybe that last part is true. Anyway, we all internalize the struggles of the teams we root for to varying extents, and therefore to some degree identify with the athletes, themselves. The very nature of sports and how it is marketed unintentionally encourages fans to react disproportionately to whatever transpires on the field or on the court. It's not even remotely an excuse for such abhorrent fan behavior, but it at least can explain it to some degree. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Weimer Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I thought the punch Jermaine O'Neal landed on the Detroit fan was solid. That's just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celts-Sonics Fan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Selfishness will be the downfall of pro sports! [QUOTE=Jeremy Weimer]I thought the punch Jermaine O'Neal landed on the Detroit fan was solid. That's just me though.[/QUOTE] Please tell me that you are not "proud" of that! The punishments levied by the NBA Commish were swift and just. I would also go a step further and institute this rule in all professional sports: Any player (athelete) that leaves the bench for reasons other than to participate in the sport (clearly defined) will be ejected from that game and suspended for the next 30 games without pay. Further if any player (athelete) enters the stands (fans designated area) said player will be ejected from the game and suspended for the entire season without pay. Should either of these offenses be reperated a second time than said player will be suspended from the sport permanently! Maybe this would get the players attention. Now as to the fans. They should not only be escorted from the stadium and arrested. They should also have their season tickets (if they have them) revoked and never allowed to attend another NBA (or MLB, NFL or NHL) game again! Since people refuse to be accountable for their actions, then the league must take the appropriate severe response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly J Delaney Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 [QUOTE=Jeremy Weimer]I thought the punch Jermaine O'Neal landed on the Detroit fan was solid. That's just me though.[/QUOTE] All class. Now Jermaine get the next 25 games to work on a left hook. I am sure Pacer Nation is happy with that. And maybe, he and Jackson can spend about 30 games working on WWE tag team moves. And DJ Ronnie can spend 73 games rappin' on how the "man is keepin' me down" You know what was solid J.W. the punch that David Stern landed on the face of the Pacers. Be proud of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerguy Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm not 100% up to date with this but is Stern going to do something about the fans? Some new rules maybe? or back to the chicken wire days of the old ABA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [QUOTE=Powerguy]I'm not 100% up to date with this but is Stern going to do something about the fans?[/QUOTE] Zero. Punishing the "fans" would mean punishing the Pistons organization, which would mean costing them money, which would be like fining your boss. Not likely, despite the blatant injustice of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Gorski Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Just how exactly is Stern supposed to do something about the fans? That's a job for the police and the police are handling it - they are starting to identify people involved, tracking them down and Im sure they will be charged in the near future. The Pistons are also revoking season tickets of those involved so yes, the GUILTY fans will be paying a price - there is no reason the innocent fans in Detroit should be punished though. Had Ron Artest let security do their job in the first place he wouldn't have seven months of free time on his hands and the Pacers wouldn't have their top three players suspended for a good chunk of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Artest got exactly what he asked for and now we can all look forward to his well prepared albim going platinum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrishHand Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [QUOTE=Gary Gorski]Just how exactly is Stern supposed to do something about the fans?[/quote] A $10M fine for the Pistons organization and an empty stadium the next time the Pacers are in town. Something like that would both ensure that all NBA teams to adopt appropriate security levels, placing the onus on the teams to ensure proper fan behavior. Furthermore, the fans would get to enjoy higher ticket prices and would miss out on heckling the Pacers next time around. I agree, though, that it would be impossible as a practical matter for the NBA to hammer individual fans - all they can do is their best to ensure that it doesn't happen again. As I've said before - my objection isn't with the suspensions as given (although I do think that the Wallace, Johnson and O'Neal suspensions were a joke) - my objection is with saying "the players were to blame" and stopping it there. [quote]Had Ron Artest let security do their job in the first place he wouldn't have seven months of free time on his hands and the Pacers wouldn't have their top three players suspended for a good chunk of the season.[/QUOTE] Yep. No dispute that Artest took the bait that was offered and was the catalyst. That in no way detracts from the massive responsibility that a huge number of fans and, more importantly, the Pistons organizations bears for the complete breakdown in security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Weimer Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 It's funny that you guys take me so seriously with my comments. The comment about Jermaine O'Neal was meant as sarcasm. I don't condone what happened that night. I never once said I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Gorski Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [QUOTE=IrishHand]A $10M fine for the Pistons organization and an empty stadium the next time the Pacers are in town. Something like that would both ensure that all NBA teams to adopt appropriate security levels, placing the onus on the teams to ensure proper fan behavior. Furthermore, the fans would get to enjoy higher ticket prices and would miss out on heckling the Pacers next time around.[/QUOTE] So the people who spent their hard earned money to watch Pistons games and had absolutely nothing to do with the fight should be punished because some fans and NBA athletes cannot behave in public? The guilty fans need to be punished and will be. The police can't just make up charges though - they can only charge them with what they are guilty of and all the Pistons can do is prevent those fans from coming back. There's really nothing else that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falkowski83 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [QUOTE=Gary Gorski]So the people who spent their hard earned money to watch Pistons games and had absolutely nothing to do with the fight should be punished because some fans and NBA athletes cannot behave in public? The guilty fans need to be punished and will be. The police can't just make up charges though - they can only charge them with what they are guilty of and all the Pistons can do is prevent those fans from coming back. There's really nothing else that can be done.[/QUOTE] Hmm... I guess I have to agree with irish here. Gary, just take the Champions League as an example. They already played with empty arenas this season because of fan behavior. Yes, you will be punishing some innocent guys, BUT by punishing everyone, the Piston organization and the fans will realize that they can't do this kind of thing. I watched the scene over and over again yesterday (downloaded the SC from the occasion), and I'm pretty sure Stern was too severe with Artest punishment and too light on Ben Wallace. IMO, Artest should have got 30 games and Ben AT LEAST 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Gorski Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Why should Ben have gotten 15? All he did was shove Artest - a 2 game suspension and instead he got 6. Artest on the other hand assaulted someone who did absolutely nothing but stand in front of his seat. You think 30 games is enough for attacking someone who did nothing at all or is he guilty and ok to be attacked because he was simply in the arena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Falkowski83 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 [QUOTE=Gary Gorski]Why should Ben have gotten 15? All he did was shove Artest - a 2 game suspension and instead he got 6. Artest on the other hand assaulted someone who did absolutely nothing but stand in front of his seat. You think 30 games is enough for attacking someone who did nothing at all or is he guilty and ok to be attacked because he was simply in the arena?[/QUOTE] Ben's attitude started everything. And Artest assaulted a man who had THROWN a cup on his head. That guy deserved it. IMO, it doesn't matter what is happening on the court, the fans have no right to throw anything inside the court, and if they do, THE ORGANIZATION has to be punished. That's why I applaud the Champions League attitude and I hope the NBA does the same to Detroit. 1-3 games without attendance or revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Cowboy Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [QUOTE=Kelly J Delaney] And finally, why couldn't a fan or player beat up on Bill Walton? Or better yet, Stephen A Smith.[/QUOTE] Hey, big Walt is a Deadhead, leave him alone! ;) Now that tool Jim Gray, I believe he's one of those bots who gets a chip placed in the back of his head before he goes on TV. It allows him to be the only person in America that identifies with Kobe Bryant on one hand and is outraged by the brawl on the other! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.