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Remianen

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I got a lifetime subscription and enjoyed i could do any theme i thought of and it worked prepatch. Post patch not so much. Just wondering if there was a site that had the numbers of the powers like there is for COH. If not is there a site that has good builds/information. The offical forums basically everything is doom and gloom hard to find actual info there.
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I got a lifetime subscription and enjoyed i could do any theme i thought of and it worked prepatch. Post patch not so much. Just wondering if there was a site that had the numbers of the powers like there is for COH. If not is there a site that has good builds/information. The offical forums basically everything is doom and gloom hard to find actual info there.

 

Yes,I think on the official forums there is a link in the "Builds" forum,either to a site with the layout or a free "builder" program.

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See,I feel it is the devs fault but in a different way:They gave people a certain level of power(being able to take on multiple higher level bad guys without much problem),but then they took it away.I understand their logic in that it was(IMO) just a shade on the easy side in beta,so they tweaked things to make it a bit more difficult;problem is,now that you have given the players a taste of being "uber",it is VERY hard to "tone it down" from there.....so you can say they brought it on themselves in that regard.Maybe in the end it's a matter of perspective;I didn't put in nearly the hours on Open Beta as others,and had to wait until release day to play after OB was closed,so I never really had a good long taste of "how it used to be",so to me everything works perfectly fine and there's no problems at all....besides its the first week of Live release,anyone who thinks CO is doing so bad must not remember the WoW and what an absolute mess that situation was at release and for months afterwards.

 

This is true and is the only major problem I have with Cryptic (besides Acrobatics). They sold the game as one thing then, on release day, flipped it on its ear. Here's the funny thing though. If they had introduced that launch day patch on the first day of headstart, how would that have affected their launch day numbers? I'm guessing that many of those preorders would've been canceled. That's my beef. It looks really shady to revamp the entire game to 180 degrees from the point you were selling it from, the day people have a chance to buy it in stores.

 

If you think about it is kind of goofy.....if these guys are supposed to be higher level than you(and consequently slightly better than you) and you can whup 4 of them at once, then they sure as heck REALLY aren't better than you,it would be more accurate to say they suck.It would be like putting a Divison II college football team against a good NFL team then expecting people to take the NFL team seriously when they lose because the college team was "just that good".

 

Actually, it's not goofy. It's how every other mainstream MMO in North America works. From the market leader all the way down to CoH. Name the top 10 MMOs in North America and every one of them (save FFXI possibly) has players routinely beating mobs of higher level. People have been doing it in EQ1 (the grande dame) since, oh, 2002? Your example is off too. It's more like the D I-AA/D2 team beating a D1 team and we've seen that happen already (ask Michigan). We're not talking about people soloing Cosmics (which is what the D2 -> NFL comparison would be), we're talking about beating +2s and such. Think about CoH. For many builds, if it's not purple, it's not hard enough.

 

Definitely at the end of the day,I don't feel the whine-fest you see happening on their forums is helping anything....if something needs to be changed then people need to come forward with hard data from tests run on the live servers under controlled conditions,not anecdotal evidence under unknown conditions.

 

In other words, paying customers should do the devs' jobs for them? That doesn't make much sense to me. Y'see, the onus isn't on the subscribers to produce a fun game, it's on the people who earn their living to do so. I have no problem with people making clear, concise feedback and offering it up but to expect them to do so in order to be taken seriously, is beyond ridiculous to me. How exactly do you quantify 'fun'? The person who can do it will be a trillionaire (and that's no exaggeration considering how many industries derive their incomes from producing said feeling).

 

Really it's sad since not so long ago that forum was filled with posts on how awesome everything was....next thing you it's nothing but vitriol and "I'm Quitting!" rants,which are in themselves a joke as everyone i know who REALLY gets unhappy and quits an MMO just goes to accounts and clicks "cancel",maybe they go on their guild and to friends and tell them they are taking a break.....they sure as heck don't go do some big melodramatic speech on a public forum,IMO these people don't truly want to quit,they just want pity,attention,and to have their feelings validated.

 

Point taken but tell me this, what changed between those periods? Address that and it'll all go back to the way it was.

 

Broken powers aside(as those are a legitimate mistake,they should and most likely will,be fixed),I find that with my "gimp" sorcery character I can take on 2 henchman and one villain that are slightly above me(the CoH equivalent would be 2 yellow minions and a yellow Lieutenant).....BUT I have to play smart....block the big hits,time my big hits right,manage my energy,etc.

 

Actually, there isn't a single build in CoH that has a problem with 2 yellow minions and a red (remember, rank & level determines con color) LT. Not a single one. Blasters can TANK that spawn (done it!) unless the minions are Ink men (who stun/mez). The game has also broken its own mechanics. When a henchman doesn't have line of sight, how can it still use its ranged attack on you? Seen it happen many many times. If I'm around a corner, why am I still being shot by the henchman in the next room?

 

Honestly I think the problem is people who pick powers willy nilly with no regard to how they interact with their stats or the level of synergy with their other powers feel they should have the same level of effectiveness as people who read up first and put some thought into their choices so that everything works well with each other.

 

Can't agree here. They sold the game on the ability to pick ANY powers you want to fit your concept of the character and still be successful. Seriously, do a YouTube search on Bill Roper. Listen to what he says and the common theme of all of those interviews. Now, tell me if that's what exists right now. I'm a powergamer, self-professed and unabashed. My concepts all revolve around what each game allows so they're fluid and fit the game's individual systems. But, I cannot blame someone for buying into what they were told by the game's lead designer. As the game stands now, you CANNOT reach into more than two frameworks without totally gimping your character, unless you're reaching into Supernatural or Power Armor for Regen or Invulnerability. My elemental characters all need a retcon to dump their forms (fire, electric, etc) and replace them with defensive passives. Why? Because even with forms up, they still don't do enough damage (since offense was nerfed too but that didn't make the official patch notes, did it?) to mitigate the boost to henchman damage output. And there is no way I chose powers "willy nilly" (that is, unless sticking to powers within your framework is 'willy nilly').

 

In a way it reminds me of a friend of mine I played DAoC with....he played a Paladin,which in DAoC at that time was kind of a melee support character,a hybrid of a Cleric and a Fighter.....every time you got him talking about the game he would cry and cry how his character is "gimped";now if you asked him how he thought his Paladin should work,what he would basically tell you is "He should be able to melee as well as a Fighter and heal as well as a Cleric at the same time"....I think a modfied sort of "I should have all the upsides but no downsides" thinking is,in part,what is happening here.

 

I dunno about that. I know that doesn't apply to me. I don't mind downsides or weaknesses, as it gives me something to fixate on eliminating (see: Invuln tankers in CoX with the psi hole in their defenses. My Inv tanker has almost 30% resistance to psi, from 0). I know my gunner wasn't going to have a ton of HP so I built her around being quick, agile, and smart with the ability to do big damage in short spurts (via crits). That's still the case, by and large, except for the quick and agile part (due to her travel power). Problem is, they changed the game to make every weakness a mortal one without adjusting the content (or, adjusting the content in 'willy nilly' fashion). Wait til you do your nemesis mission. Woo, that's going to be an eye opener.

 

I got a lifetime subscription and enjoyed i could do any theme i thought of and it worked prepatch. Post patch not so much. Just wondering if there was a site that had the numbers of the powers like there is for COH. If not is there a site that has good builds/information. The offical forums basically everything is doom and gloom hard to find actual info there.

 

Champion Builder is good but don't take it literally. Their numbers for many abilities are off and will be for the foreseeable future, unless they get a means of packet sniffing (since Cryptic doesn't often include all the changes they make in the patch notes. This goes all the way back to early CoH. Packet sniffer would allow folks to see exactly what exists, not only what Cryptic says) or deconstructing the exe (ala Magelo, in EQ and WoW) to compare old to new.

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Personally,I wish they HAD done the launch day patch on the first day of headstart,it probably would have eliminated alot of the angst we are seeing now over it.

 

Don't get me wrong,I've been around since EQ1 myself so I'm not trying to say CO invented anything new,i guess you could say "killing yellows" has been the "gold standard" for soloing in MMO's since about Day 1.....what I wonder is "if you can beat 3 of them at once with little fear of losing,are they REALLY of a higher level than you?".....IMO the answer is no,something that is supposed to be "tougher" than I am should take a little planning and intelligence to handle,it certainly shouldn't feel risk free;if you're killing 3 "supposed to be tougher than you" guys at once and not really sweating it,then either you are incredibly skilled or the difficulty is off.....I've seen it happen often enough to know it can't always be chalked up to skill.I'd rather have it legitimately tougher than my character (as advertised) and be a good fight with an appropiately good reward for being able to overcome the challenge.To use your own analogy:yes a D2 school's team can beat a D1 school's team....IF they play their hearts out and really work for it,and it certainly isn't going to be assured every time out either....and that's how it should be.Really what worries me is that it is the start of what I DIDN'T want to see....your "hardcore" types can kill this or that no problem so now let's change the game difficulty based on what your "hardcore" player can do as the standard.

 

 

As far as feedback goes,years of dealing with business types has taught me that yes,in order to really hem people in and keep them from BS'ing their way out of things,you need to present enough hard to dispute proof to shoot down their arguments before they can even make them.Years of dealing with people has also taught me that hollering,screaming,rant,and throwing a fit isn't the way to get what you want,in fact it is more likely to have the opposite effect,put them on the defensive,then deny you just out of spite on the basis of your behavior.Being able to discuss the problem intelligently without blowing a gasket,like an adult,is the way to go. You are right that it is on the devs to make sure things are fun,but to do that they need a lead a good concept of what it is that is killing your fun,and what would fix it to be able to address anything with any sort of effectiveness;it's like going to the Doctor,Doc asks you what's wrong,you explain as it as best you can(I have a sore throat,my stomach is badly upset,my back really hurts,or whatever have you).....you don't just flop down on the table and scream "I DON'T FEEL GOOD!" then expect the Doctor to magically know by osmosis what the problem is.

 

As to what changed.....to put it bluntly,the PB isn't getting their way anymore....when the system totally favored the player it was "Thanks Cryptic!You guys are awesome!Best game ever!" and now it doesn't favor the player so much it is "Cryptic sucks! I hope you fail!Worst game ever!".....I'm not saying people don't have a right to have feelings or that it is totally undeserved;I'm saying I think it's immature and hypocritical to start acting the way some there and scream how the game designers are "jerks who don't care" the first time it isn't going totally the player's way.

 

Don't get me started on defensive passives,I feel that is becoming a classic example of "taken so often by min/maxers that the game mechanics themselves now assume that you have taken one"......I understand the frustration with your elemental characters;that's not the fault of willy nilly power selection,if anything it's the fault of defiance/invul/regen being too darn good so everybody took them.As far as being successful,the problem there is firstly that not everyone defines successful in the same way,to some it is being able to solo that super difficult boss,to someone else it may merely be having a sweet costume and some cool looking powers to show off to your friends;then secondly,due to human nature,the standard for success is always going up....for years a certain type of runner said a 4 minute mile was impossible,but then as soon as one guy did it what do you know?A big bunch of other guys started doing it too and now it's become a standard for "success".

 

Listen,please don't take it the wrong way,you seem a pretty cool and well spoken guy;in no way am I saying you are wrong or responsible,it is just my opinion on some of the more outrageous behaviors by some of the forumites over there,and on the game itself.I'm not saying it's divine law or fact and I'm sure not trying to say everything is wonderful and perfect,there's things that need to be looked at and improved just like every other MMO,whether it's been around for 10 minutes or 10 years.All I'm saying is people on the official forums are getting a bit TOO worked up over it like it's and death,or the devs changed things just to go out of the way to ruin their day,give them a little time to tweak things around,if it is still messed up after that(or gets worse) THEN it's time to call them on the carpet for it.

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So couple things

 

1) Let's get on with this super group! What needs to be done to get it up and running?

 

2) Is it fun... yes in a typical MMO way. I was playing Batman, Arkham horror and then switched to champions and I realize the fundamental flaw that Champions have...you don't feel that powerful.

 

When it takes you awhile to grind through an enemie's massive health bar, you don't feel that powerful. Now, this is perfectly fine for the Super Villains but there's everyday guys on the street with at least half of my massive health bar and it takes me about a full minute to grind it down.

 

Then you play batman where you're destroying like 6 villains at once and you feel awesome. Although then they take you down super fast too so it's much more...engaged. They should cut health bars by a solid factor and keep damage high. That would make things fun-er IMO.

 

Other then that one gripe, it's a solid MMO with a fresh feel in that it's not futuristic or fantasy. There's plenty of nerd easter eggs, there's plenty to distract you from the typical "go to X and kill Y to get Z" missions. They solved a common problem by not having a limit to the amount of missions you can take on one time so you don't spen all your time going back and forth between quest givers and questing grounds.

 

Speaking of which, there is no specified "questing" ground as many missions can occur anywhere. There's a variety of ways to get quests too. You can talk to contacts, discover clues that lead to new missions from beating up bad guys, and every once and awhile a citizen will call on you to get their cat out of a tree.

 

PvP is fairly weak but then again it's Cryptic. If you want to seriously PvP then go online and read the forums to min/max your character. So far I've only played in the cage matches which pits you on random teams so even if your character isn't tweaked for success you can still win, and most of the perks and missions involving pvP are just to participate, I think there's only 2 achievements that actually involve winning X number of fights.

 

Slightly disappointed with the mobs because there's no info on the varieyt of villains you fight. CoX was awesome because all the mobs had little info boxes so you can read the backstory of the Purple Hat gang or the Maniax or whatever. These ones not so much, for now it feels like the same mobs with different skins. Same thing with energy types. While powers are distinctive (more so because you can color them however you want) but the energy types are pretty generic from what I can tell.

 

Also, it's annoying that you can't tell what "powers" are effecting you, at least I don't have that enabled and it pisses me off that I don't know what's hitting me so I don't know how to protect against it.

 

Finally, holds are annoying as sin. You have to button mash to get them off but because of the delay there's no real skill involved. Being quick at button mashing doesn't help you at all,

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Wow,if the article I read was right.DC Universe online will not have a monthly fee...if it's true i'll eventually be playing both.

 

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/09/08/dc-universe-online-no-subscription-fee/

 

Your Spider Sense should be tingling. ;) Specifically asking, what's the catch?

 

If the game's going to have no subscription fee, how does it pay for itself? How does it recoup the tens of millions of dollars invested in it? How does a PRODUCER (who isn't in position to make that decision) know this PRE-ALPHA?

 

Right now, there are two dominant and one emerging payment method in MMOs (don't even think of Guild Wars): recurring subscription fees, item malls, and a hybrid of the two (Champions is a hybrid, obviously). DCUO is a huge title. I'm sure SOE and Time Warner (who owns DC) aren't skimping on the funding for this game. The game isn't being made 'just for fun', it's a business venture. Thus, both publicly traded companies have shareholders to answer to. Therefore, the question then becomes, how does this game justify its expense without recurring subscription fees?

 

It's a delicate subject because any direction they go with is going to have detractors. With these being publicly traded companies, any analyst getting in their head that this game is going to have 'boondoggle' written all over it, is going to create ripples that could be costly to both primary principals.

 

So couple things

 

1) Let's get on with this super group! What needs to be done to get it up and running?

 

Five people, grouped, in MC at the supergroup registrar.

 

Let's set a specific day/time to get it done. I can get on at any time so fo mo' pplz (jeez, it hurt just typing that :p).

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Alright, this weekend, Saturday at 6:00pm GMT.

 

So that's 12:00pm CST (my time)

6ish for you brits and late at night for your aussies.

 

We need to find some place unique to meet... how about we'll gather around the toymaster (shop right by the central park).

 

We meet, at noon we'll group together and go to the supergroup and register GDS.

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Alright, this weekend, Saturday at 6:00pm GMT.

 

So that's 12:00pm CST (my time)

6ish for you brits and late at night for your aussies.

 

We need to find some place unique to meet... how about we'll gather around the toymaster (shop right by the central park).

 

We meet, at noon we'll group together and go to the supergroup and register GDS.

 

I have to work until 4:30, so i won't be home until around 5:00 EST;I'll ask to be added when I get on after work.

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Your Spider Sense should be tingling. ;) Specifically asking, what's the catch?

 

If the game's going to have no subscription fee, how does it pay for itself? How does it recoup the tens of millions of dollars invested in it? How does a PRODUCER (who isn't in position to make that decision) know this PRE-ALPHA?

 

Right now, there are two dominant and one emerging payment method in MMOs (don't even think of Guild Wars): recurring subscription fees, item malls, and a hybrid of the two (Champions is a hybrid, obviously). DCUO is a huge title. I'm sure SOE and Time Warner (who owns DC) aren't skimping on the funding for this game. The game isn't being made 'just for fun', it's a business venture. Thus, both publicly traded companies have shareholders to answer to. Therefore, the question then becomes, how does this game justify its expense without recurring subscription fees?

 

It's a delicate subject because any direction they go with is going to have detractors. With these being publicly traded companies, any analyst getting in their head that this game is going to have 'boondoggle' written all over it, is going to create ripples that could be costly to both primary principals.

 

Seems like they are leaning towards the "item mall" way of doing things probably; which is fine by me since I never bother with those as I could care less about trying to be competetive with other players.Let the uber gamer munchkin kids(probably the same ones that pay big bucks for pre-maxed out toons because they "don't feel like" working their way up and just want to skip right to the end) blow their cash so they can brag about how wonderful their make imaginary guy in a make believe world is;if it keeps the game subscription free for me,I'm all for it.

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Do you think we could get like a list of people's @names, because I seriously feel like I missed adding some of you guys to my friend's list.

 

Also, some people from SOE were at Dragon*Con talking about DCUO and when asked about whether it was pay-to-play or micro-transaction based, said that it hadn't been determined. While it being free would nice from a player standpoint, it would likely be tremendously stupid from a business standpoint. Then again DC is rather popular and could make a lot of money off the box sales, especially with the game being free to play.

 

However, I still have my doubts, so I'm taking this with a grain of salt.

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Do you think we could get like a list of people's @names, because I seriously feel like I missed adding some of you guys to my friend's list.

 

Mine is @thrainkell.

 

I made 20 yesterday and also volunteered as a "hero helper",so hit me up if you get stuck on something or have questions(that goes for everyone here who is playing)

 

I got my Arms(crafting) skill capped,let me know if anyone needs gear;I can also make 10 slot bags if you need them.

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@prague_pride (stupid account names...)

 

I'm at 15. Got science almost to 200. Can do some pretty sweet exposures though, especially with Dex and Int if you're interested.

 

I currently need Dex and Con, made a Dark/Regen Scrapper :D

 

So who is going to be on this Saturday @6:00pm GMT. If we can't get 5 people we'll have to reschedule.

 

I make (1) (more is better, FTR)

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@prague_pride (stupid account names...)

 

I'm at 15. Got science almost to 200. Can do some pretty sweet exposures though, especially with Dex and Int if you're interested.

 

I currently need Dex and Con, made a Dark/Regen Scrapper :D

 

So who is going to be on this Saturday @6:00pm GMT. If we can't get 5 people we'll have to reschedule.

 

I make (1) (more is better, FTR)

 

Arms gave me primarily STR/CON, but I also can do some pretty good END/REC stuff too,and a few DEX pieces.

 

I have to admit at first I struggled with the crafting until I realized you should be saving every piece of "junk" loot that matches your specialization and experiment on them;after that I zipped right up to cap.

 

I also have most of the conversions(switching common to uncommon components) and a nice handful of power replacers(for munitions,single/dual blade,and archery..might have more I don't exactly have access to the game right now lol).

 

We should start a new game for CO....spot the references,so far I have seen references to:

 

SCTV:Robert & Douglas McKenzie...aka the McKenzie Brothers from SCTV and the movie Strange Brew

 

Big Trouble in Little China: The quest arc involving Jackson,his hijacked truck,and girls with green eyes....plus the whole Cult of the Red Banner and their wizard looking boss.

 

They Live: Quest Arc involving aliens infiltrating earth in disguise, ARGENT makes special glasses that lets you see them.

 

Westworld: Quest arc involving a Old West theme park with robots who start going nuts and offing people.

 

Blade Runner: A quest in the aforementioned Westworld chain,involving rogue 'bots.

 

The Purple Gang faction in Millenium City could be a reference to either the Minnesota Vikings defense from the late 60's/early 70's(The Purple Gang) or possibly the gang "The Boppers"(gang of guys with crazy purple vests and hats) from the movie "The Warriors"(which was already referenced in CoH with "The Warriors" gang and the line "The Warriors did it!" in mission text)

 

As we said Foxbat is kinda like Batman,Wolverine,Joker,and Deadpool wrapped up into one...then with his fanboys and such,I'm sure it's a shot at Marvel & DC.

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Your Spider Sense should be tingling. ;) Specifically asking, what's the catch?

 

If the game's going to have no subscription fee, how does it pay for itself? How does it recoup the tens of millions of dollars invested in it? How does a PRODUCER (who isn't in position to make that decision) know this PRE-ALPHA?

 

Right now, there are two dominant and one emerging payment method in MMOs (don't even think of Guild Wars): recurring subscription fees, item malls, and a hybrid of the two (Champions is a hybrid, obviously). DCUO is a huge title. I'm sure SOE and Time Warner (who owns DC) aren't skimping on the funding for this game. The game isn't being made 'just for fun', it's a business venture. Thus, both publicly traded companies have shareholders to answer to. Therefore, the question then becomes, how does this game justify its expense without recurring subscription fees?

 

It's a delicate subject because any direction they go with is going to have detractors. With these being publicly traded companies, any analyst getting in their head that this game is going to have 'boondoggle' written all over it, is going to create ripples that could be costly to both primary principals.

 

 

 

Five people, grouped, in MC at the supergroup registrar.

 

Let's set a specific day/time to get it done. I can get on at any time so fo mo' pplz (jeez, it hurt just typing that :p).

 

That dang card game again! Station Cash is how they will pay for it, more then likely. Be able to get the best looking detailed costumes, etc... Hopefully there won't be any abilities only available through it though.

 

I hate Station cash (for the record). Would rather pay a monthly fee. However, this is the way most online games are going now. You pay for a certain class, race, etc.. but play for free if you don't mind being "normal". It has it's pluss's... as it will help keep class/race combo's down to where they should be (uncommon, at best probably).

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That dang card game again! Station Cash is how they will pay for it, more then likely. Be able to get the best looking detailed costumes, etc... Hopefully there won't be any abilities only available through it though.

 

I hate Station cash (for the record). Would rather pay a monthly fee. However, this is the way most online games are going now. You pay for a certain class, race, etc.. but play for free if you don't mind being "normal". It has it's pluss's... as it will help keep class/race combo's down to where they should be (uncommon, at best probably).

 

Makes sense as station cash would make things available to both PC and PS3 console users in one system...at least the upside with these is I can play one "normal" guy and see how I like the gameplay itself before forking out more cash for perks.

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I'm @purpcowboy, although I haven't been playing all that much. I have Jim Surge the electricity character at lvl 8, and then a darkness character or something called Nightshadow (I think?) at lvl 7. Surge is in the desert and Shadow went to Canada and that's where they're at. I keep forgetting to block when in combat. Need to brainwash myself into that routine.

 

But, since the paid faction change service went live in WoW I finally switched my original toon (a lvl 70 human pally) over to horde where I have the rest of my characters. So I've been having a little fun going through Northrend again.

 

Should be around this weekend for long stretches. Otherwise during the week I'm mainly playing during the evening/nights EST (GMT -5).

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So far we have:

 

1) Praguepride

2) Moderndaywarrior

3) Purple Cowboy

 

Need moar people!

 

 

Keep in mind with the "spot the reference" that this is existing in the canon Champions Universe. Foxbat is foxbat, a villain created 10 years ago specifically for the Champions universe as a comedy super-villain. Pretty much any character they have a huge in-depth profile of on their website is pulled from the Champions Universe

 

@MDW: Yeah, in fact I actually pick my rewards solely on the basis of:

 

1) Is it science

2) is it better then what I have currently

3) Is it Dex/Con boosting where I don't have dex/con boost

4) Other

 

So even if it doesn't help me out, I pick the junk reward for science! because the crafting is where you get the really powerful stuff.

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Makes sense as station cash would make things available to both PC and PS3 console users in one system...at least the upside with these is I can play one "normal" guy and see how I like the gameplay itself before forking out more cash for perks.

 

/nod. I like the "free to try, pay to get cool stuff" because generally I'm comfy not having TEH BEZT LOOTZ so get to enjoy the game for free or a modest, one-time sum. If there's something out there I really must have I can shill out the $$$ for it but in general, I like this model because the only people who pay are the powergamers who I feel should have less money in general :D

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I know from my ingame friends list we also have:

 

@Remianen(Remianen)

@Crownsy(Crownsy)

@Alaskanhero(Franchise)

 

Foxbat has been about forever,I remember him in Champions years ago...I had a ton of the books and everything but never could find a group of guys willing to get the Ph.D.'s in Algebra,Triginometry,and Calculus needed to be able to make sense of their system.Just saying,I always felt he is a shot at Marvel/DC....funny to hear him holler for a GM in the tutorial though.

 

Funny we brought up the station cash thing since oddly enough,if CO had gone with the "micro-transaction" style instead of monthly subs,it would have eliminated almost all of the unhappiness @ launch as the huge complaint was essentially that people made an investment based on the product they saw

on beta/headstart,but then were presented with a product they found inferior upon official launch but already had a financial "stake" for some duration or another.

 

I was doing some reading,a player went from 1 to 40 in 4 days,playing 12-14 hour sessions per day......he's actually a pretty decent guy and didn't complain about it at all;I just hope someday MMO designers learn not to try so hard to constantly appease these type of gamers as they'll never,ever be able to release things fast enough to keep them busy,so all it does is end up wasing resources that could be spent more effectively(on game play upgrades,bug fixes,etc.)Am I saying there should never be high end,endgame content developed?No,it deserves a fair shot like everything else....just don't try and "keep up with the joneses" as it were.

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I know from my ingame friends list we also have:

 

@Remianen(Remianen)

@Crownsy(Crownsy)

@Alaskanhero(Franchise)

 

Foxbat has been about forever,I remember him in Champions years ago...I had a ton of the books and everything but never could find a group of guys willing to get the Ph.D.'s in Algebra,Triginometry,and Calculus needed to be able to make sense of their system.Just saying,I always felt he is a shot at Marvel/DC....funny to hear him holler for a GM in the tutorial though.

 

Funny we brought up the station cash thing since oddly enough,if CO had gone with the "micro-transaction" style instead of monthly subs,it would have eliminated almost all of the unhappiness @ launch as the huge complaint was essentially that people made an investment based on the product they saw

on beta/headstart,but then were presented with a product they found inferior upon official launch but already had a financial "stake" for some duration or another.

 

I was doing some reading,a player went from 1 to 40 in 4 days,playing 12-14 hour sessions per day......he's actually a pretty decent guy and didn't complain about it at all;I just hope someday MMO designers learn not to try so hard to constantly appease these type of gamers as they'll never,ever be able to release things fast enough to keep them busy,so all it does is end up wasing resources that could be spent more effectively(on game play upgrades,bug fixes,etc.)Am I saying there should never be high end,endgame content developed?No,it deserves a fair shot like everything else....just don't try and "keep up with the joneses" as it were.

 

@Friend List: Awesome. If they're not reading this shoot them an in-game message to try and coordinate for this Saturday's SG formation.

 

@Complainers: I found that hilarious that people shilled out $200 for a lifetime and then threw a big hissy fit because ONE BUILD no longer works. Why buy a lifetime subscription if you're only going to play one character and never go beyond that. Sure they altered how the powers worked but they didn't dramatically alter the game like SWG did. They just upped the difficulty. Plain and simple. You're still a super hero, combat still works the same, they just took a nerf bat to a lot of things. I want to meet every single one of those people who said that "I bought a lifetime for $250 but I'm not going to play anymore because you nerfed my Teleporting Regenerating PvP character.

 

@High-End Content: I read a post about that, maybe it was the same one. Basically it talked about how WoW came out with this big new expansion every year and yet there are people who burn through it in a week and then complain that they're bored for the rest of the year. I agree totally and that's one thing Cryptic does well, they don't focus solely on the end game. Their philosophy is the journey instead of the destination. They've done better prep work for end game content with the UNITY and Nemesis systems but all in all it's not a sole focus.

 

@Misc: They're adding in mob info soon. If you look at mob info it says "default character info" It's eventually going to come, yay!

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@Friend List: Will do,I'll send in-game mails to people too.If it ends up being like 1 guy short of what you need,you can always ask on zone if you can "borrow" a player just to get the SG up and going,most folks there are pretty decent.

 

CO Launch: As I say,I think it's one of those things where the answer lies in the middle;there WAS a need for some balance,Cryptic was correct in that....BUT they did a little too much at once,and that's what got people: They logged out one day,pretty content with things....log in the next morning and it's like "Whoa!My guy works drastically different than a couple hours ago!".It's what I call "sticker shock",then when you factor in people get attached to things and hate to see them change,you have "the great forums blow up" that happened....important lesson learned:gradual is good,all at once is not.So on one hand,going gonzo with fixes at once then not addressing on it was poor handling on Cryptic;on the other,people should have realized that just like with every other OP/FotM build in every other MMO ever,the nerf bat was coming eventually.....it's ok to be unhappy with it,and even to tell Cryptic you are unhappy with it....going nuts on the forums about sueing Cryptic for "Bait and Switch" and publicly calling for the game to fail is just plain out overreacting.

 

High End Content: You got it,man....I swear some of these folks seem to think that every day when they wake up and log in, 12 more hours of brand new stuff should be there just for them to work on.High end content is important to retain subscriber numbers,otherwise they get bored and go on to the next MMO;problem is if you become "all about the endgame" it becomes so hard for the new subscriber to "keep up" that alot of them get discouraged and move on to another MMO...really it has got to be a balancing act.

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Funny we brought up the station cash thing since oddly enough,if CO had gone with the "micro-transaction" style instead of monthly subs,it would have eliminated almost all of the unhappiness @ launch as the huge complaint was essentially that people made an investment based on the product they saw

on beta/headstart,but then were presented with a product they found inferior upon official launch but already had a financial "stake" for some duration or another.

 

It's true. Problem is, with no subscription (and thus, no way to sell long term deals to people willing to commit), you've got no avenue for recoup money. With the MMO market being so flooded right now, unless you have an absolutely groundbreaking game with massive crossover/mainstream appeal, you're stuck out on an island.

 

I was doing some reading,a player went from 1 to 40 in 4 days,playing 12-14 hour sessions per day......he's actually a pretty decent guy and didn't complain about it at all;I just hope someday MMO designers learn not to try so hard to constantly appease these type of gamers as they'll never,ever be able to release things fast enough to keep them busy,so all it does is end up wasing resources that could be spent more effectively(on game play upgrades,bug fixes,etc.)Am I saying there should never be high end,endgame content developed?No,it deserves a fair shot like everything else....just don't try and "keep up with the joneses" as it were.

 

Funny thing is, this existed in WoW at launch. My first run to 60 took about 2 months. The second, 5 weeks. The third, 3 weeks. Now, I can do 1-80 in 4-8 days (depending on my mood). I can have a level 80, completely raid geared character inside of a month. You're right, no developer is going to create compelling content fast enough to keep up with that kind of pace. There aren't that many different, unique ideas under the sun given the fact that they'd have to churn out a new raid dungeon probably every 10 days or so.

 

@Complainers: I found that hilarious that people shilled out $200 for a lifetime and then threw a big hissy fit because ONE BUILD no longer works. Why buy a lifetime subscription if you're only going to play one character and never go beyond that. Sure they altered how the powers worked but they didn't dramatically alter the game like SWG did. They just upped the difficulty. Plain and simple. You're still a super hero, combat still works the same, they just took a nerf bat to a lot of things. I want to meet every single one of those people who said that "I bought a lifetime for $250 but I'm not going to play anymore because you nerfed my Teleporting Regenerating PvP character.

 

Wasn't just one build though. That launch day patch affected EVERY build to some extent. Some defensive passives were perhaps too strong, yes (regen still is, invulnerability less so) but some SUCKED and now suck even worse (lightning reflexes for one, defiance matures in the mid to late 30s as it stands now). Acrobatics doesn't work because the parent powers (super jump & super speed) were cut down. It isn't a matter of 'people whining because one power build was destroyed' since that one power build had many different pieces. I don't have a single character with teleport (seemed too gimmicky for my tastes) and all of my characters didn't have regen (my elemental frames went with their energy forms instead). Now? I only have two characters who don't have regen (darkness & fire), every last one of the rest of them does, concept be damned. Why? Because they need it to survive packs of 3-4 henchmen or 2-3 henchmen and a villain. All they've done is herd people into one fixed set of powers, which flies in the face of what Bill Roper said during the selling of Champions.

 

I'm a powergamer, but only one of my 12 characters created during the headstart were optimized, for PvE. I don't even have a PvP character or build (I don't like CO's PvP). Now? 10 of the 12 characters I have are optimized to the nth degree. I didn't start playing CO to powergame/theorycraft it to death. I play other games for that. But now I'm being forced to do so because otherwise, I get my ass whooped on a regular basis. Go do the desert (post-crisis) on a character made in freeform. You spend more time running away from those spawns of 4 henchmen two by two packed so close to each other, you might as well call it a 4 spawn, than you do fighting.

 

Point is, many of those people have legitimate complaints. But the 'forum fanboi squad' take it upon themselves to try to denigrate people to the point where NOTHING is going to be reported, not even exploits (and there are four that I know of). It could also be because the people "reporting" issues are doing it in melodramatic, drama queen, 'look at me' fashion but that's just the whole 'captive audience' aspect of things.

 

@High-End Content: I read a post about that, maybe it was the same one. Basically it talked about how WoW came out with this big new expansion every year and yet there are people who burn through it in a week and then complain that they're bored for the rest of the year. I agree totally and that's one thing Cryptic does well, they don't focus solely on the end game. Their philosophy is the journey instead of the destination. They've done better prep work for end game content with the UNITY and Nemesis systems but all in all it's not a sole focus.

 

@Misc: They're adding in mob info soon. If you look at mob info it says "default character info" It's eventually going to come, yay!

 

First off, WoW has never come out with an expansion "every year". That's EverQuest. WoW will be 5 years old this November and has released two expansions to date. Secondly, BC was not blown through in a week because of gatekeeper mobs (like Kael'thas) that required time and effort to get past. Of course, a few months before Lich King came out, they removed the need to beat these gatekeeper mobs so the more casual folks could get into and farm Black Temple in time for the next expansion. Lich King was trivial, but that was by design. Its whole purpose was to make raiding more 'accessible' (read: easy) to get into and complete for those who previously couldn't do so. Lich King was blown through in record time because of that. So far, Blizzard has the best record for expansions (first being hardcore focused, the second being extremely casual) so WoW is a very very bad example.

 

CO Launch: As I say,I think it's one of those things where the answer lies in the middle;there WAS a need for some balance,Cryptic was correct in that....BUT they did a little too much at once,and that's what got people: They logged out one day,pretty content with things....log in the next morning and it's like "Whoa!My guy works drastically different than a couple hours ago!".It's what I call "sticker shock",then when you factor in people get attached to things and hate to see them change,you have "the great forums blow up" that happened....important lesson learned:gradual is good,all at once is not.So on one hand,going gonzo with fixes at once then not addressing on it was poor handling on Cryptic;on the other,people should have realized that just like with every other OP/FotM build in every other MMO ever,the nerf bat was coming eventually.....it's ok to be unhappy with it,and even to tell Cryptic you are unhappy with it....going nuts on the forums about sueing Cryptic for "Bait and Switch" and publicly calling for the game to fail is just plain out overreacting.

 

There was a farmer, had a dog, and BINGO was his name-o.

 

High End Content: You got it,man....I swear some of these folks seem to think that every day when they wake up and log in, 12 more hours of brand new stuff should be there just for them to work on.High end content is important to retain subscriber numbers,otherwise they get bored and go on to the next MMO;problem is if you become "all about the endgame" it becomes so hard for the new subscriber to "keep up" that alot of them get discouraged and move on to another MMO...really it has got to be a balancing act.

 

For the record, I've never been like that. I was brought up in the old EQ way: Yes, you completed the expansion but you're only half done. You now have to farm the bejeezus out of it in preparation for the next expansion. So there's still tons left to do, since not everyone in even a raid focused guild, plays every day. Droprates being what they are, mixed with good ol' Gumperson's Law (i.e. The probability of anything happening is in inverse ratio to its desirability. In other words, the "useless" or "crap" loot will drop often and the loot(s) you want/need most will be as rare as Halley's Comet. People start hotkeying 'Gratz rot!'.) means you'll be at it until 2 months before the next expansion (when you quit bothering).

 

Most developers suck at balancing acts so they have to pick one side or the other. Most of the time nowadays, they choose the casual route and forget about the high end altogether (or do like Cryptic and try to stall or delay people from getting there via game mechanics).

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@GateControlTheory

 

 

 

I like the game, in fact, I'll be canceling my wow account tonight (been playing wow since the first day it was released) but I do understand people's anger over the nerfs. Since I first started playing MMO's in 2000, I've always felt Nerfs were an extremely short sighted way of fixing problems. If there is some class/skills/combination of whatever that is great at some aspect of the game. Why not bring everything else up to that level, instead of knocking it down. Yeah I know its quicker, less expensive, etc. But I've never paid 15 bucks a month to expect less of something.

 

That isn't to say that some of the complaints aren't silly. But following the discussion at the FoH board (a forum for hardcore MMO players) there is some legitimate concern that CO is maybe turning from the Hero paradigm in gameplay to more of the classical triumverate Healer/Tank/DPS, which would be bad, as their are plenty of games out there that implement that framework much better.

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Point is, many of those people have legitimate complaints. But the 'forum fanboi squad' take it upon themselves to try to denigrate people to the point where NOTHING is going to be reported, not even exploits (and there are four that I know of). It could also be because the people "reporting" issues are doing it in melodramatic, drama queen, 'look at me' fashion but that's just the whole 'captive audience' aspect of things.

 

It's both,people are very passionate about their games.

 

You have those who will always look past the faults no matter what to the point of saying everything is fine when the house is,in fact, burning down.

 

You have those who will always hate or find the bad in something no matter what to the point of crying "DOOM!" when life is,in fact, pretty good.

 

Seems like with many MMO forums,many people fail to grasp that to make a point,you need to present it in as an intelligent argument and not a long rant colored by emotion;to make an analogy,just saying "The Spiderman movie was the best ever!" or "The Spiderman movie sucks!" let's people know how you feel but does nothing to make a case either way....and that's what many forumites at CO are doing......on the other hand,"I liked the Spiderman movie;the story was compelling,the acting was believable,and the action sequences were well done,the costumes were also incredible", or "I hated the Spiderman movie;it drifted too far from the comic book canon and the dialogue seqeunces dragged,i also did not care for the featured villain." are arguments backed by definable points that support the case.....but then I think that's asking too much from your typical MMO forumite as many of them seem to revel more in attention whoring than an exchange of ideas.

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