kingtutt Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I know that the golden number for angles is 6 minutes (to count toward show grade, to effect momentum, to increase a worker's skills) so is there any point in doing angles less than 6 minutes long? Does a solid (or crappy) 2 minute angle effect the crowd at all? Are there any other benefits that I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 six minutes only affects the show raiting. a A* one minute angle does incress populairty and momentum i believe. five minutes to raise skills by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianCarter Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 it seems 5 minutes to raise skills has been patched out. Not sure but some people claim so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So an angle done in five minutes can help the worker stats, but not effect the show? I just want to clarify that this is what is being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolinc Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 So an angle done in five minutes can help the worker stats, but not effect the show? I just want to clarify that this is what is being said. That was what was said, but it's currently 100% wrong. It's been patched out so long that I don't even know when that patch when into effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Lyrium Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Are there any other benefits that I'm missing? Storyline progression, for one thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Toilet breaks. Giving a worker an appearance, as well. And generally filling out the necessary match:angle ratio - they're usually the last thing I book, and as I prefer not to have back to back matches, a one minute angle can nicely split up two matches, keep Runaway Train/BSS/Giant Redwood happy and is easy to write up in a diary as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 While we're on the subject, does anybody think that 6-minutes is far too long? (This has probably been talked about before so I do apologize in advance if I've covered old ground that has been argued about numerous times in the past). I'm not sure what the average for a non-wrestling segment is in real life but, with the rapidly diminishing attention spans of people out there, I find it hard to believe that any wrestling angle would even come close to approaching 6-minutes in length, nowadays (I don't think I've ever seen one, at any rate). This is why commercials are only 30-seconds in length, actually -- it's right at the edge when people start to lose focus and zone-out. Now, I do realize that there is a difference between the game and real life (I mean, if characters could improve their skills by doing one-minute angles all the time, where would be the challenge?) but shouldn't the effect be cumulative? I mean, if someone did enough one-minute segments over the course of a year, surely they'd learn and improve their skill level in some small way, right? Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 CM Punk cuts promos about 7-8 minutes long on every SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 CM Punk cuts promos about 7-8 minutes long on every SD Really? Maybe that's why the ratings are in the toilet. Foxcutter. P. S. I've just looked at bunch of CM Punk promos on YouTube and the longest seems to be about three minutes -- just where I was kind of expecting it to be. Not saying that you're wrong (I haven't watched Smackdown in a while) but I'm not talking about opening spots (which can go on forever) but about mid-show backstage interviews and such. I'll continue to look but, again, the number that you just quoted me is really shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 well most of them are opening segments usually he cuts a promo for 3-4 minutes and then hardy comes out and that goes on for another 3-4 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Casey Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yeah, that's the thing - think about a Katie Vick, gay wedding, Mayweather/Show, This Is Your Life, HHH/Orton... Almost any segment of significance from recent times has been a lengthy one. For it to have any impact on the show, for the workers to have a chance to stretch themselves, then several minutes need to be allotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yeah, that's the thing - think about a Katie Vick, gay wedding, Mayweather/Show, This Is Your Life, HHH/Orton... Almost any segment of significance from recent times has been a lengthy one. For it to have any impact on the show, for the workers to have a chance to stretch themselves, then several minutes need to be allotted. Well, I guess my confusion comes from the fact that I thought that 6-minutes was also required to improve the stats of a worker, as well. I use non-wrestlers to conduct interviews with my wrestlers to hype matches (a la Jeremy Borash, Lauren Brooke, and whatever the particular WWE flavour of the month is) and if 6-minutes is, in fact, the magic number required for stat improvement then none of the people that I mentioned above would've improved one iota since they joined the business -- even if they happened be 20-year veterans of the industry and were used to playing off the most entertaining stars in the world; they would've learned absolutely nothing in all that time and be just as green as when they first started (which I find I hard to believe -- I don't care how "blonde" somebody is). Conversely, if someone did 30-second promos, every show, for 10 years (the length of an average commercial) they would have to have gleaned something in all that time, wouldn't they? As I said, I can't remember ever seeing an interview go more than 3-minutes (if that) and I can't remember the last time any backstage personnel was in the ring with a worker when they cut their big promo to kick off a show (which, as previously mentioned, usually goes into the 6-minute range and beyond). So, bearing all this in mind, if this is the case, how do the Katie Camerons and Kristen Pearces of the world (the two interviewers that I use in the Cornellverse) ever suppose to improve their craft (if, of course, you're trying to use a realistic world model and an interview never goes beyond 3-minutes)? Of course, I could be embarrassingly wrong about all of this but I'm less concerned with big segments affecting the show grade (which I totally agree with you about, by the way) than improving some of my workers' entertainment abilities and popularity. Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianCarter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Plenty of interviews turn into face to face challenges, beatdowns, etc. In TEW that would all be considered one angle not two or three chained together and anyone appearing at all could benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Plenty of interviews turn into face to face challenges, beatdowns, etc. In TEW that would all be considered one angle not two or three chained together and anyone appearing at all could benefit. That's not my reading of it at all. All participants for a simple interview are listed. If the segment was called 'Interrupted Interview' and had an Attacker added (in addition to the Catalyst and Support roles) then I'd agree but the simple fact is you have different angles for a reason. I can't believe that a simple interview angle really means interview and attack (there's an angle specifically created for that situation, after all). Simply put: an interview is an interview and a backstage beatdown or face-to-face challenge are what they say they are: backstage beatdowns and face-to-face challenges, otherwise why differentiate them in the angles data? All I'm saying is that if you tried to mimic real world conditions, using the 3-minute rule, no benefit would be gained from it -- either in terms of skill value or hyping a very important match. That doesn't mean that TEW is suppose to be based on real world values, though. I mean, it is a game after all and, I guess, if it was done to real world spec, it would be far too easy. The way it stands now, however, if someone was playing the game based on real world conditions, you could totally do away with the built-in skills cap feature because no one on your roster would ever improve enough to get there. Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianCarter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The angle writer exists for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennie Bomb Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 You have to bear in mind that the 6 minutes is the total length of the segment - so that would include intros/outros and such. Pretty much every in ring interview covers 6 minutes or so when you include everything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 You have to bear in mind that the 6 minutes is the total length of the segment - so that would include intros/outros and such. Pretty much every in ring interview covers 6 minutes or so when you include everything like that. I don't think there is evidence to support that theory, in all honesty. Next time wrestling is on TV, time one, from beginning to end -- it's nowhere close to being 6-minutes long (just for clarification, I'm talking about backstage segments and not opening or in-ring promos). Or better yet go to YouTube and watch a bunch of wrestling interviews where the videos actually have built-in timers. On average, they're usually in the 2-to-3-minute range. As I made mention, I realize TEW is a game and that Adam, obviously being very knowledgeable about both wrestling and game design, had a reason for setting it up the way he did (my guess would be that if a segment only had to be 3-minutes long to improve a worker's Entertainment Skills, then a domino effect would occur: ultimately leading to earlier success than was originally intended and possibly reduced playability because of that). But that's only a guess. Whatever the case, straight up interviews are not, on average, 6-minutes long -- even for highly-hyped and important matches. Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Foxcutter, it's a catch-22 situation. You're right in that in reality, most angles aren't very long and people still seem to learn & grow from them. However, this seems to be a case of trying to maintain a challenge level in developing workers. Folks who have played (or are currently playing) TEW05 can tell you how even 1 minute segments can be worth their weight in gold, with regard to how they affect any given show's rating. Personally, I thought 5 minutes was fine since it sits pretty much at the leading edge of typical angles in reality (more than 3 mins, less than 6 or 10). Kucian is right and incorrect at the same time. The way angles work in reality, a promo followed immediately by a response is typically TWO segments. But right on with the fact that we can make them one segment to get around the segment minimum. Heck, I've condensed my custom angles a lot but one thing I find kinda odd is how many times a worker's promo is interrupted (like 85% of the time, honestly). But it makes perfect sense to me. Think about it. You're at work and a co-worker is talking smack about you to everyone, co-workers, clients, the higher ups. You're not just going to let them get away with that. You're going to come out and have words with them. In the past, I've always broken them up the way its done in reality. Foxcutter, chalk this up to a concession to gameplay mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 You have to bear in mind that the 6 minutes is the total length of the segment - so that would include intros/outros and such. Pretty much every in ring interview covers 6 minutes or so when you include everything like that. Also you CAN include this as all the banter between the commentating crew before the angle. Lilian Garcia doing some miss pronouncing, walking to the ring to your theme etc can be theoretically included. Same as with the game not acknowledging commercials. You are making a show for a live crowd not the tv even when it is a tv show. Youtube etc generally leaves these things out. But in the end as Remi said the main reason is gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Foxcutter, chalk this up to a concession to gameplay mechanics. Yup. As you can see, that's the conclusion I arrived at in the above post: shorter angles needed for skills improvement = more angles per event = a rapid increase in Entertainment Skills among more workers = better angles = better matches = better show grades = easier game. I don't like the fact that it doesn't represent reality the way it should but that's probably my own OCD perfectionism rearing its ugly head. As I said, I do realize that it's a game and have to make the kind of concessions that you mentioned in order to keep the challenge level up, I was just a little surprised that people seemed a bit defensive about the 6-minute rule not accurately representing reality (or maybe that's my own weird reading of the way people responded). That said, I still think that there should be a cumulative point system in place for short angles (much in the way that Prestige points are awarded to promotions after every event) but file that one under game suggestions for the next installment. Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtutt Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Holy crap. I kinda posted this question and forgot about it. Did I open a can of worms or what!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxcutter Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Holy crap. I kinda posted this question and forgot about it. Did I open a can of worms or what!?! Yeah, but it was good to let them loose for a nice lively discussion about a subject that I've always had questions about myself (obviously). Foxcutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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