TEW2010 Developer's Journal Discussion

[panix04]

<p>I don't see what the big deal is, just used sparringly it will be a really useful feature. All this, I don't trust mod makers malarky seems a bit dramatic to me. If you don't trust them to use the chemistry feature in a good way, would you really use their mod in the first place? </p><p> </p><p>

I also think it is a bit of a slant on mod-makers, don't bite the hand that feeds you guys, the mod-making part of this community is very important, if nothing else then purely from a commercial perspective, whilst TEW is a great game and the Cornellverse is exellent there are people who will only play real world mods, without those people sales drop and without sales there is no TEW! Not being mardy i'm just saying there are a lot of really hard-working, bright mod-makers about on these boards (and TCP!) <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

So even though the developer and most of the people here are not loving the new feature, from me it gets a big Mick Foley thumbs up!</p>

[King Chono]

<p>I like this feature, although any mod I download I'm going to be deleting all the chemistry out of it. The only forced Chemistry that should ever is exist is Toshiaki Kawada vs Mitsuharu Misawa. Also Jumbo Tsuruta vs Anyone he's ever wrestled..</p><p> </p><p>

Yeah I can see this feature being abused by mod-makers, but I don't have a problem going through and editing all the chemistries before I start a game. I always spend 5+ years in my games anyways, so it's better for me to change everything to my liking before starting a game. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Imarevenant]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="panix04" data-cite="panix04" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25024" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't see what the big deal is, just used sparringly it will be a really useful feature. All this, I don't trust mod makers malarky seems a bit dramatic to me. If you don't trust them to use the chemistry feature in a good way, would you really use their mod in the first place? <p> </p><p> I also think it is a bit of a slant on mod-makers, don't bite the hand that feeds you guys, the mod-making part of this community is very important, if nothing else then purely from a commercial perspective, whilst TEW is a great game and the Cornellverse is exellent there are people who will only play real world mods, without those people sales drop and without sales there is no TEW! Not being mardy i'm just saying there are a lot of really hard-working, bright mod-makers about on these boards (and TCP!) <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> So even though the developer and most of the people here are not loving the new feature, from me it gets a big Mick Foley thumbs up!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with everything Panix said.</p><p> </p><p> Also, with the new multi-delete feature, going through and deleting chemistry settings you don't agree with will be a pretty quick and painless process anyway.</p>

[Irish Wolf]

My attack wasn't against mod makers. I've been here a long time and I actually trust the mod makers themselves not to over abuse this feature. My problem is the combination of all these features that allow you to make the game easy and the fact the a lot of players want to be able to be good at something right away and I can just see people adding tons of chemistry notes to existing mods so their feds are the most kick as things on the planet and then going "look and me look at me look how good I am at playing."

 

Personally I like the challenge of Random Chemistry and of Repeated Match Staleness and of Owner Goals. I always play on straight edge mode and the fact the people want these easy ways out and then want recognition just annoys the hell outta me.

[praguepride]

<p>Anyway, it's a moot point because it's here and probably here to stay <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

So yay, new features! Can't wait to see what next week's features will be. I have a feeling we're starting to build up to the big ones. Drag & Drop was a great show starter, and this feature here really has generated some heat...I sense some big features coming next week to keep the good times rolling!</p>

[The Final Countdown]

You make some really good points, panix. If you don't trust a certain mod maker not to abuse chemistry, then odds are you wouldn't have been using their mod to begin with.

 

My problem is the combination of all these features that allow you to make the game easy and the fact the a lot of players want to be able to be good at something right away and I can just see people adding tons of chemistry notes to existing mods so their feds are the most kick as things on the planet and then going "look and me look at me look how good I am at playing."

The game is as easy or as difficult as you want it to be. Players already have the option to, at any point, give their workers perfect stats and max popularity, or to give their promotion as much money/prestige/popularity as they want. I don't see forced chemistry making the game any easier than those pre-existing options.

 

I approve of the feature, personally. It greatly increases the odds of me converting my current ROH diary game to 2010.

[PeterHilton]

This is my favorite part of this announced feature:

 

The CornellVerse database will feature virtually no pre-set chemistry for this reason.

[Irish Wolf]

This is my favorite part of this announced feature:

 

I agree.

[Zeel1]

Here's a man who listens to his fans!

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rEETT_806vQ/SehwakhRCKI/AAAAAAAABas/8WNQvt2Purc/s400/johnmadden.jpg

 

"Now here's a guy that really listens to his fans! He didn't want to add this feature, he didn't like the idea of the feature, but a lot of people pound his door down about it. So, he takes the idea, passes it 10 meters - and BOOM! It's in his new game! And you know who else listens to his fans? Brett Favre!"

[Remianen]

/nod. Hopefully Adam has underestimated the community,

 

He hasn't.

 

or at least have given us enough "Caution" as that we won't be over-utilizing this feature.

 

There aren't enough words in every language combined to 'give enough caution so [folks] don't over-utilize' this.

 

This is like folks clamoring for 'more worker interaction' when they don't use the existing features to spark that (why's everyone in most mods have the same personality?).

 

It looks like I won't be playing "real world" data in 2010. I understand the demand for this feature was overwhelming, but I can count on maybe two fingers the number of real world modders who I trust to correctly use this feature and neither of them are modding anymore.

 

I probably wouldn't need that many.

 

I don't see what the big deal is, just used sparringly it will be a really useful feature. All this, I don't trust mod makers malarky seems a bit dramatic to me. If you don't trust them to use the chemistry feature in a good way, would you really use their mod in the first place?

 

panix, given my preference, there are few mods that appeal to me at all. Especially since the bias they tend to show is beyond nonsense.

 

I also think it is a bit of a slant on mod-makers, don't bite the hand that feeds you guys, the mod-making part of this community is very important, if nothing else then purely from a commercial perspective, whilst TEW is a great game and the Cornellverse is exellent there are people who will only play real world mods, without those people sales drop and without sales there is no TEW! Not being mardy i'm just saying there are a lot of really hard-working, bright mod-makers about on these boards (and TCP!)

 

EDIT: NM, there's no way for me to say what I want to say without it coming off as snarky, which isn't the intent.

 

You make some really good points, panix. If you don't trust a certain mod maker not to abuse chemistry, then odds are you wouldn't have been using their mod to begin with.

 

That's not exactly true. Why's it have to be binary? Like, I don't trust most mod makers to make a real world mod with accurate depictions of the other gender. Does that automatically mean every mod that comes out touting itself as 'real' is crap? No, it just means that an aspect of it is. Likewise, I think an aspect of many real world mods is going to be crap with folks going overboard with this feature and a few more that are coming.

[The Final Countdown]

That's not exactly true. Why's it have to be binary? Like, I don't trust most mod makers to make a real world mod with accurate depictions of the other gender. Does that automatically mean every mod that comes out touting itself as 'real' is crap? No, it just means that an aspect of it is. Likewise, I think an aspect of many real world mods is going to be crap with folks going overboard with this feature and a few more that are coming.

Your point about mod makers & females is a good one; I've yet to play a mod that I felt rated women workers accurately. But for whatever reason, I look at chemistry differently. Different people have different opinions on the chemistry that may or may not exist between workers, of course, but I trust the better mod makers not to go crazy with the forced chemistry. For example, the only TEW08 mod I have had a sustained game with was the 2002 mod put out by Genadi. I may not trust every mod maker not to go overboard with chemistry, but Genadi? Yes. Guess we'll just have to wait and see, though. And with the mass delete feature, shouldn't be a hard thing to correct even if it is abused.

[Gigas]

I just dont see why people would care how I play my game or anyone else plays it. The more features the better, especially if its optional.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

Your point about mod makers & females is a good one; I've yet to play a mod that I felt rated women workers accurately.

 

That's what stops me from playing most real world mods. The women are always, without exception, underrated.

[crayon]

So yay, new features! Can't wait to see what next week's features will be. I have a feeling we're starting to build up to the big ones. Drag & Drop was a great show starter, and this feature here really has generated some heat...

 

Yeah I think Forced Chemistry really established itself as a top heel in the TEW Arena tonight. If Autobooker returns to the ring this place is gonna explode. The only possible way to defeat that kind of tag team would be with the rumored debut of Mr. NWA Umbrella Org!

[praguepride]

Alright, who wants to run a mock feature diary.

 

"Drag & Drop comes out of the gates, and the fans go wild. But Editable Chemistry sneaks out from behind and slams him over the head. D&D is reeling, but he recovers enough to send a dropkick to EdChem's jaw and send him tumbling off the ramp.

 

Suddenly, Autobooker chair shots D&D from out of the crowd and starts slamming steal to back. Autobooker has joined forces with EdChem and the two are really putting the boots to D&D. Exclusive Venues rushes out from the back but EdChem and AutoBooker quickly drop him as well.

 

The crowd is roaring with anger as the two heels celebrate their victory. They march into the ring and start flipping off the fans. Just as they're about to high five each other, the lights go dark. The crowd hushes in silence, anticipating some awesome event on the horizen.

 

The lights flare back up and pyrotechnics explode on the ramp as Mr. Umbrella Organization marches out and the crowd explodes. Umbrella hits the ring hard, laying EdChem and Autobooker down with clothesline after clothesline as he storms around the ring. EdChem and Autobooker quickly roll out and flee the scene. Mr. Umbrella hops up on a turnbuckle, roaring to the crowd and the GDS arena is deafened by the cheers...."

 

 

Yeah...that'd be an awesome show

[Remianen]

I just dont see why people would care how I play my game or anyone else plays it. The more features the better, especially if its optional.

 

The problem Gigas, arises when/if you present that game for public consumption via a diary or mod release. If it's just you, that's one thing. If you hand your mod out to a select group of friends for personal use (which I did in 07), that's fine. But when you post a diary without full disclosure of how that data differs from the accepted baseline or present your dataset as 'real world' when it only has 5 promotions in it, as well as mis/overusing certain features to make it easier to succeed in, that's a different story.

 

(These I'm putting here because they fit this thread more than the other)

 

But I just have to get this out of my chest now: Make your own mods, people! If you don't like the real world mods that are available, make your own. I don't like the real world mods that are available for numerous reasons and therefore always create my own mods totally from scratch. Sure, I have my Locations, Angle and Match, etc. files that I import and reuse in different mods, but still. Now, I don't have 7,000 workers in the database with millions of small indy promotions I've never heard of, but the best thing about making your own mod is that you don't have to please anybody. You don't agree with me thinking that Triple H is an above average brawler at best, really overrated, not that great on the mic and only in the position he's in right now because of his "relationships" and hasn't even had a really good match in God knows how long? OK with me, since the only one playing the mod is me.

 

Amen! My personal mod for 08 took 11 months of work and tweaks to play out exactly like the C-Verse does (except being twice the size).

 

I can't believe the amount of complaining about the chemistry feature. Hell, no one is forcing you to play these mods that you seem to complaining so much about. Create a database and start working if the mods don't please you. And with the mass delete feature, it shouldn't really be that hard to erase all the forced chemistry notes in the database and there you have it: random chemistry.

 

So, you're actually sad that there were people happy about an announced feature for the upcoming TEW? Really? I hate, I hate, I HATE for this thread to go down this route but I really have to ask you: Why on earth does it bother you if a player, who pays the same amount of money for the game that you do, finds it fun to abuse chemistry? Do you stay awake at nights thinking "At this very moment, someone, somewhere is abusing the forced chemistry feature in TEW 2010!"? Just chill. The great thing about TEW is that it can be played in many different ways. That's the whole beauty. So, someone feels that HBK and Kurt Angle have great chemistry and wants it to appear in the game, as well? I may disagree with that, but it's their game, I can't think of a single way how it could possibly bother me. It's like someone wanting to play Grand Theft Auto with their feet in their own home and you started whining and complaining "No! That's not the right way, GTA is meant to be played with your hands! HANDS!"

 

Just grow up.

 

The problem arises when people's personal changes to a mod are then presented for public view or critique. As has been said, many people who write diaries based on custom datasets, don't disclose the customizations. However, I don't think it's worth busting a blood vessel over.

 

The feature is going to be abused, primarily because of its subjective nature. TEW handles and defines chemistry one way but players might define it differently and in that particular battle, guess who wins in the end?

 

Realy wish you didnt add this one Adam, its only going to ensure that 90% of all the mods of 2010 will suck more than Missy Hyatte.

 

Please remove it.

 

Hey Tempest, if 90% of the mods for TEW10 are going to suck, there's always one way for you to prevent that (make your own). You don't even have to start from scratch. Do what a lot of people do and just copy an existing mod and make your own customizations.

 

I'll turn it off for my games and probably won't use it in my mods...

 

The thing is, I always thought EWR/TEW as a discovery game as much as anything. So yeah, you gotta dig for stuff. If chemistry is forced and then you play a mod that is heavy in Forced Chemistry entries, then a very important part of the game goes away, that is trying to make things click.

 

Not to mention, it's very subjective at times that two guys have good chemistry or not.

 

I would totally agree with this. The first year of the games I play often comes down to fishing for chemistry to determine long term pushes. If, for example, Angel Takudome and Roz Larren have 'awesome' chemistry as opponents, that's one pairing I can count on for a storyline.

 

Tag Team Experience not enough?

 

Apparently not since folks are forgetting or ignoring the fact that established tag teams with 'medium' or better experience automatically get a neutral chemistry floor.

 

Lemme be clear here. Even with the features that I don't personally like or agree with, TEW10 is going to eat your soul upon its release. There isn't a single perfect game or toy or piece of art or whatever else. This is no different. It's [Edited to add: NOT] going to be all things to all people. But this feature will allow folks the maximum amount of customization they desire. As Teemu pointed out, it's all about what the individual player likes when you get right down to it. Heck, my mod is going to have some preset chemistry (like the Neptunes and Brendons at neutral). All I'm saying is, don't judge the package by individual features. How they mesh together is far more important, I think.

 

And for the life of me I can't understand how this feature gets such a reaction while the ability to recreate the Attitude era got barely an acknowledgement.

[alden]

I think we have found this years sexuality....i remember that caused A TON of "debate" last time and this is going down the same way lol

[praguepride]

I'm actually quite sad that the C-verse doesn't better reflect a more modern attitude towards sexuality.

 

Sure you can say that it attracts certain "types" of people or that gay workers tend to keep that hidden, but I think hidden sexuality should be mentioned in the bios and their true sexuality is what's in the mod

 

(perhaps an "in the closet" sexuality that means that they're acting straight but might end up being gay later?)

 

Depending on who you talk to, it's at least 1:100 and at most 1:10 guys are gay. In the cverse's 1,300 workers, there are what, 5 people who aren't straight. I know it's not a real big deal, just a minor irritation that it's not very well represented in the c-verse (/shrug)

 

ANYWAY I'm still enthusiastic about '10, and really EdChem isn't going to ruin my personal playing experience, but it will unfortunately jade me against other people's on diaries and threads. And that makes me a sad panda

[Zeel1]

Alright, who wants to run a mock feature diary.

 

"Drag & Drop comes out of the gates, and the fans go wild. But Editable Chemistry sneaks out from behind and slams him over the head. D&D is reeling, but he recovers enough to send a dropkick to EdChem's jaw and send him tumbling off the ramp.

 

Suddenly, Autobooker chair shots D&D from out of the crowd and starts slamming steal to back. Autobooker has joined forces with EdChem and the two are really putting the boots to D&D. Exclusive Venues rushes out from the back but EdChem and AutoBooker quickly drop him as well.

 

The crowd is roaring with anger as the two heels celebrate their victory. They march into the ring and start flipping off the fans. Just as they're about to high five each other, the lights go dark. The crowd hushes in silence, anticipating some awesome event on the horizen.

 

The lights flare back up and pyrotechnics explode on the ramp as Mr. Umbrella Organization marches out and the crowd explodes. Umbrella hits the ring hard, laying EdChem and Autobooker down with clothesline after clothesline as he storms around the ring. EdChem and Autobooker quickly roll out and flee the scene. Mr. Umbrella hops up on a turnbuckle, roaring to the crowd and the GDS arena is deafened by the cheers...."

 

 

Yeah...that'd be an awesome show

 

"And in comes Predator Hiring..and he's dressed up to look like Rob Feinstein! What cheap heat!"

[Self]

Sad as it is, I imagine if one of the more popular characters, say a Wolf Hawkins or a Davis Wayne Newton, were to be 'outed' it would lead to a fair number of players not using them, or using them negatively, or changing them back (pft. Like it's a choice ). Unless Adam was conducting a sociological experiment, it's not really worth it.

 

It's nice that it's in there as fun for mod-makers. I'd prefer there were more homosexual workers in the C-Verse, but I understand the situation. The C-Verse probably follows wrestling trends pretty well.

 

I'm almost ready to buy this game. If no more features were to spark my interest, I'd still get it if I liked how the C-Verse has evolved. I fully expect another feature to knock my socks off soon enough.

[PeterHilton]

And for the life of me I can't understand how this feature gets such a reaction while the ability to recreate the Attitude era got barely an acknowledgement.

 

Yeah, Narratives, National Trends, and Eras are going to completely alter the way the game is played and if used correctly will make a good mod infinitely playable.

[James Casey]

How many openly gay wrestlers are there in real life? And why?

 

That's why there are very few in the game - that's how I've always understood it, anyway.

 

And Remi, I'm sure you understand exactly why eras didn't excite so much enthusiasm: Very few people play more than a couple of years of any game, and even fewer of them get that excited about any feature so... 'backstage' for want of a better word.

 

Whereas the number of times people have asked for chemistry (including myself) to be an option... Wow.

[Karl_Kitsch]

I still think Chance Fortune is gay. I do not know why, but his pick just gives me that impression.

[PeterHilton]

I still think Chance Fortune is gay. I do not know why, but his pick just gives me that impression.

 

wow...just... wow

 

Ironically proving the point. lol

[jbergey_2005]

My attack wasn't against mod makers. I've been here a long time and I actually trust the mod makers themselves not to over abuse this feature. My problem is the combination of all these features that allow you to make the game easy and the fact the a lot of players want to be able to be good at something right away and I can just see people adding tons of chemistry notes to existing mods so their feds are the most kick as things on the planet and then going "look and me look at me look how good I am at playing."

 

Personally I like the challenge of Random Chemistry and of Repeated Match Staleness and of Owner Goals. I always play on straight edge mode and the fact the people want these easy ways out and then want recognition just annoys the hell outta me.

 

Couldnt someone that wanted to cheat this feature also cheat by changing a workers stats as well? The whole game is editable so Im not sure how this is such a huge deal. If someone wants to "cheat" they will be able to do it if this feature is there or not.

 

The good thing about reading diaries is that there are so many of them to choose from and I dont have time to read them all so I pick the ones I want to read. If something doesnt appear right its easy enough to not read it:)