bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm not in disagreement with you here, I just find it odd and directly wrong to give Cena the credit for creating stars out of certain people. Like you said: they got themselves over, getting the "Superman treatment" from Cena wasn't what did it. NO ONE GAVE CENA DIRECT CREDIT FOR PUTTING ANYONE OVER!!!!!! WHY DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS TO YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! If you're gonna go after people just read what they say, dude. I simply think guys have had good FEUDS against Cena. Cena's mic work is some of the best out there today and he's great at making a guy look great from a character perspective. I'm not talking about matches. Everyone knows about the 5 moves of doom and Super Cena. No one denies that this takes place. All of you who keep bringing this up are attacking a point no one ever made. Although, personally, I think when a dude is kicking the crap out of Cena and he barely gets out of it, which is what happened against many of his opponents, it doesn't make that character look particularly weak. But many of you say it does. OK. Not arguing that as it's your opinion. But when they attack Cena for months. They attack his fans and what makes him great. they go after his ideology and his sensibility. Guys generate a ton of heat against Cena. Like Batista did. Like Barrett did. Like Orton did. Like Miz did. Like Punk is doing. Hell Miz was beating the crap out of Cena for a month straight before WM27! If that doesn't make him look better than the guy who barely got out of a Lawler match a few times then I don't know what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 NO ONE GAVE CENA DIRECT CREDIT FOR PUTTING ANYONE OVER!!!!!! WHY DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS TO YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! No reason to get your panties in a twist, calm down. Such anger is bad for your heart. Did I ever mention your name in my posts? Did I quote you? No? Then why are you taking my posts so personal? Breathe in. Breathe out. Calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I wasnt mad. Just put it in big words so you could have an easier time reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I really don't understand how dominating only to lose from a fdw quick moves is anything BUT showing no resilliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I really don't understand how dominating only to lose from a fdw quick moves is anything BUT showing no resilliance. It isn't. It makes a guy look weak when he can't put someone away despite beating on them for 15-20 minutes with everything he has, and then when the other guy fires back, it only takes him a couple of quick moves to score the win. What I don't understand is why such a rather obvious concept is beyond some people. Not all people, because with some it's easy to understand. Now, if the other guy has to fight back for just as long to try and put the other away, then you'd have something approaching equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And some people are hanging on to and arguing a point I don't know that anyone made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 My view on the whole thing is that he does help them get over in promos and the.like, but when it comes to the match he doesn't. I think it best to adress both sides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 My view on the whole thing is that he does help them get over in promos and the.like, but when it comes to the match he doesn't. I think it best to adress both sides I've looked at Cena as burying people all around ever since the first Nexus attack. Guy gets taken OUT. Before he even makes it away from fan vision? Thumbs up. Way to blow the whole thing by having to be Super Cena still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And some people are hanging on to and arguing a point I don't know that anyone made. Perhaps you should stop trying to be the center of attention and accept that people can discuss things in this thread not necessarily brought up by you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 My view on the whole thing is that he does help them get over in promos and the.like, but when it comes to the match he doesn't. I think it best to adress both sides I agree, he does help get them over in promos. I think he's given Punk a boost in their recent feud (on top of Punk being awesome all by himself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Punk vs Cena was a great modern WWE match as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Perhaps you should stop trying to be the center of attention and accept that people can discuss things in this thread not necessarily brought up by you. Was this obvious personal insult really necessary? I was commenting on something ANOTHER poster had said. Talk about center of attention... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Ok so this channel NWONITRO on youtube has like a 29 (or more ) video series on Jericho's rise in WCW. I think it's 1 or 2 segments per video. Remeber the times... I am 3-0 against Goldberg!! Candyman, it makes people look weak if they dominate 15 minutes and can't win only to lose in 5. It negates all of the work they did if they lose that easily. Well... responding below It isn't. It makes a guy look weak when he can't put someone away despite beating on them for 15-20 minutes with everything he has, and then when the other guy fires back, it only takes him a couple of quick moves to score the win. What I don't understand is why such a rather obvious concept is beyond some people. Not all people, because with some it's easy to understand. I'll tell you why it's beyond some people: because it doesn't happen all that much as you guys bluntly put it. The only main time where it's been a staggering case of the Superman revival was at SummerSlam last year. And okay yeah, I'm pretty sure there's been two or three times more of that stuff. But the sea of contests Cena's been in where there's been an actual struggle and fair contest tells more of the tale than what we're going on about. So yeah, maybe not everyone Candyman was talking about, but there has been some cases where Cena makes his opponent better not by supermanning in the last seven minutes of the match. I know for a fact Miz going toe-to-toe with Orton and Cena during his reign helped elevate his status and workrate, alongside his effort onto getting himself over with his gimmick. It was also the bookers who were the ones who didn't feel like fully pulling the trigger on Sheamus during his first reign. What "rut" would that be? I'm not trying to start an argument but since this Punk angle happened ratings have gone DOWN, the buyrate for Money in the bank is up "20 percent" from last year. Thats great but up twenty percent in buys means it did the same numbers as Extreme Rules did this year. Which means that Punk's angle hasn't a single thing that John Cena and The Miz weren't already doing. Sometimes what we view as a rut is actually just sound business. I realize you're always bringing it back to the business aspect of how an angle's doing in terms of ratings/buyrates/etc. Which sure, I can concede, but it isn't like anyone's said the opposite either. See I believe when Arrows is talking about "rut", he's talking about the same thing Punk actually touched on last week, and that's WWE staying in the same status quo it's been in forever. Cena getting 1000 title shot opportunities because of who he is and what he brings to the table, etc. Though that was more of an in-business remark comment from Punk, what Arrows said remains somewhat in the same area. This isn't a whole lot about the ratings, about whether people are tuning in or not. Sure, that's the industry's optimal goal but we're rather looking at the things it's doing/may be doing. Punk selling shirts at an alarming rate, both Punk and Cena inherently touching on Internet-related matters, the change in atmosphere some may feel because of HHH's presence as a fresh on-screen boss amidst all of this, etc. Will it lead to 5.0 ratings, maybe not but it's gonna lead somewhere and the point simply was many feel that if Cena wins and Punk goes back to where he was at, the status quo will remain the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've looked at Cena as burying people all around ever since the first Nexus attack. Guy gets taken OUT. Before he even makes it away from fan vision? Thumbs up. Way to blow the whole thing by having to be Super Cena still. At least he waited a day before completely blowing off the fact that he lost in the main event of Wrestlemania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Why Punk should commentate upon retirement: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Melina was not allowed in the HP Pavilion in San Jose, California when she arrived with her real-life boyfriend John Morrison last night. The office wasn't happy about her being backstage at house shows this weekend but things aren't as strict when Vince McMahon is not there. The reasons why WWE didn't want Melina backstage at Raw are obvious and one can only speculate the overflow of heat this will place on John Morrison. It's worth noting he went under clean to R-Truth on last night's show. Haha, well done Johnny. Weeeelll doooone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest codey Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Punk NEEDS to bring back this mustache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexa90 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have a question. When was Cena last time pinned or made submit cleanly? Without any distractions or interference. Because I really can't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That is irrelevant imo. How long did SCSA go before he lost clean? But to answer the question the answer is never. MITB doesn't count but did HBK win the hour long match in London? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKnifed72 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That is irrelevant imo. How long did SCSA go before he lost clean? But to answer the question the answer is never. MITB doesn't count but did HBK win the hour long match in London? yes...a non-title match on RAW, I do remember that didn't Shemus win clean to take the belt (in a tables match?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Cena lost clean on PPV to Batista back when they were both babyfaces. He's also lost cleanly to Randy Orton and Triple H within the past 2-3 years. Going back further, HBK and JBL have also beaten him cleanly. While it's probably mostly due to his reduced schedule, Undertaker's list of guys he's lost cleanly to is probably significantly shorter than Cena's. Cena's also a pathetic 6-2 at Wrestlemania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have a question. When was Cena last time pinned or made submit cleanly? Without any distractions or interference. Because I really can't remember. I don't know what people consider clean exactly, some people would argue Sheamus' or Punk's victories depending on their mindsets. What I do recall though is Orton punting Cena in the skull in their HIAC match for the three count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeel1 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Cena's also a pathetic 6-2 at Wrestlemania. Actually, 6-2's a pretty awesome record in comparison to everyone else's. Lance Storm went into this a few months ago - not many of the records there look very impressive. It's kinda surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 yes...a non-title match on RAW, I do remember that didn't Shemus win clean to take the belt (in a tables match?) Only if you don't count the fact that that wasn't the intended ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTandSilentBob Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I don't know what people consider clean exactly, some people would argue Sheamus' or Punk's victories depending on their mindsets. What I do recall though is Orton punting Cena in the skull in their HIAC match for the three count. Yeah. The same punt that took out RVD, Shawn Michaels, Vince McMahon the entire Nexus and shortened CM Punks title reign only got a 3 count. If I remember correctly Cena was standing before the ppv ended and was 100% on Raw the next night. He even no sold his "career-threatening" neck injury, returning at the Royal Rumble when he was supposed to be out past Wrestlemania. (my girlfriend was irate when he returned, shouting, "i hate him, I hate him" then months later shouting "i bleeping love you" at a house show months later.) Perhaps he really is Superman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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