The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Teh_Showtime]

Heath Slater is too talented to not be on TV.

 

Could easily be a midcard gatekeeper. Man deserves PPV matches and he sold the clothesline like a champ.

[crownsy]

That was a great heel turn by Punk. I thought Punk might turn heel, but it was perfectly executed and I honestly was surprised when he Clothes-lined The Rock out of nowhere.

 

The way he turned was great because if he had just attacked Cena he would have gotten cheered by a good portion of the crowd, but cutting the Rock off before he can hit the people's elbow on the nostalgia show is going to get everyone in the arena to boo you.

 

 

 

To be fair it's not like Heath Slater ever really had a shot of being a headliner in the WWE. I've enjoyed watching him get beaten up by legends far more than anything else he's been involved in.

 

I don't mind the slater stuff at all, I think he has the potential to be a very serviceable mid card guy for years to come. And you need that guy, not everyone needs to be pushed to the main event level. Heath does his job well, and he seems like a safe guy to work with.

 

That also kinda gets to my thought on 3 hour raw. I think it Could be good, assuming WWE uses the extra time to do fleshing out of the mid card rather than just filling another hour with recaps and promo's from Cena and crew.

 

Things i would do Were I booking three hour raws.

 

1. Retire the US title, and bring in the cruiserweight belt. This gives guys like Kidd, Hunico, Cara, Bourne (if he comes back) primo, and epico and all the other assorted high fliers something to do. You can even use santino/ slater here as more brawl oriented guys.

 

2. Develop simple story lines around the mid card. Not every story needs to be a epic attempt to push a guy to the next level. mostly because 9/10 WWE tries to hard and messes them up.

 

KISS. go with a simple storyline about a guy wanting to beat another guy. introduce feuds and story's that fans can get behind, but don't need maximum investment.

 

3. Continue to bring back actual tag teams. I like the PTP, i like the uso's, I like primo and epico. Those teams and actually tag team wrestling should also help to flesh out the show.

 

4. Actually develop a diva's division. No explanation really needed. The WWE does actually have alot of female talent (natty, beth, SDR, tamina, kong, layla isn't unwatchable, aj, ect.)

 

But that division goes nowhere as long as it's relegated to fart gags and 30 second matches. Give the ladies some time to tell a story.

 

In essence post opening and middle of the show should be paced around UMC/ME segements with cool down stories based off the underrcard.

 

The problem is that the above would required good, structured writing, something WWE has proven less than capable off in the past.

[Astil]

http://i.imgur.com/FLqOV.jpg

[Jaysin]

http://i.imgur.com/FLqOV.jpg

 

Die Rocky Die!

 

Also, I was reading a review of Raw and someone had said they thought the guys in white were just people in catering.

 

Which could easily be true.

[shawn michaels]

I never said Heath Slater should be a Main Eventer, or a had a chance to do so. I just think they could use him a lot better without killing his credibility. Don't get me wrong, i love Lita, but the guy lost to a woman and to old farts. That's what peolle will remember. "Oh look, the guy who loses to everyone", not the rest. That makes it difficult for him to go in any other direction in the future.

 

As for the guys Daniel Bryan was talking, that was the wedding crew. Hence the white. Gezz, some of you guys make movies out of nowhere. They were just Extras. The whole point of that promo was hype the wedding while showing Bryan and the moments leading to it.

[BHK1978]

I never said Heath Slater should be a Main Eventer, or a had a chance to do so. I just think they could use him a lot better without killing his credibility. Don't get me wrong, i love Lita, but the guy lost to a woman and to old farts. That's what peolle will remember. "Oh look, the guy who loses to everyone", not the rest. That makes it difficult for him to go in any other direction in the future.

 

When Randy Couture was forty-six years old he beat Brandon Vera. Did it destroy Brandon Vera's credibility to be beaten by somone who was almost twice his age? No not at all, sometimes the older guy is the tougher guy.

[shawn michaels]

When Randy Couture was forty-six years old he beat Brandon Vera. Did it destroy Brandon Vera's credibility to be beaten by somone who was almost twice his age? No not at all, sometimes the older guy is the tougher guy.

 

Let's not compare a professional soap opera with actual fighting. I get your point, but surely you can understand mine.

[LoNdOn]

When Randy Couture was forty-six years old he beat Brandon Vera. Did it destroy Brandon Vera's credibility to be beaten by somone who was almost twice his age? No not at all, sometimes the older guy is the tougher guy.

 

I get the point you are trying to make, but Couture won that fight on paper and paper alone.

[Tiberious]

I never said Heath Slater should be a Main Eventer, or a had a chance to do so. I just think they could use him a lot better without killing his credibility. Don't get me wrong, i love Lita, but the guy lost to a woman and to old farts. That's what peolle will remember. "Oh look, the guy who loses to everyone", not the rest. That makes it difficult for him to go in any other direction in the future.

 

I don't really think he had any credibility to lose in the first place; he was already pretty much the guy who loses to everyone. At least with this storyline he's getting a little bit of promo time to heel it up and give people a reason to want to see him to get crushed by legends.

[bigtplaystew]

Big Show has been beaten up by every clown, celebrity, and joke that's run through that place. You put him on one "monster heel" push and it's all forgotten. He's a viable main event heel.

 

Obviously, Slater's no big show and there's no "monster heel" push for him in sight. But who knows? If they want to build him up as a credible threat all he needs is a few weeks with a decent angle, and we'll forget all about Lita (who looked incredible btw).

[Teh_Showtime]

Big Show has been beaten up by every clown, celebrity, and joke that's run through that place. You put him on one "monster heel" push and it's all forgotten. He's a viable main event heel.

 

Obviously, Slater's no big show and there's no "monster heel" push for him in sight. But who knows? If they want to build him up as a credible threat all he needs is a few weeks with a decent angle, and we'll forget all about Lita (who looked incredible btw).

 

Big Show has been beating the crap out of Cena for a month now and until last night during the match,, he ALWAYS entered to crickets

[Hyde Hill]

BTW anyone else catch the Rick Rude indirect reference in the DX segment? And it seemed that X Pac really wasn't supposed to be there with that whole 1-2-3 thing between Gunn and Shawn. Which is pretty good as helps suspend disbelief if he was or was not meant to be there.

[bigtplaystew]

Big Show has been beating the crap out of Cena for a month now and until last night during the match,, he ALWAYS entered to crickets

 

Look, I'm not saying Big Show is the next coming of Ric Flair, jesus. The dude main events shows though as a credible heel. All I was trying to say. Slater's not done forever because of one angle with some legends and Lita. He'll be o.k. if the skills and the talent are there.

 

There's been several instances where a joke character eventually became a credible character. Santino is the U.S. champion for christ sakes! He was wrestling women and LOSING on a weekly basis.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Successful Raw in my opinion. Not amazing, but by far and large better than the past few Raws, and without being pessimistic probably will supercede the next few as well. Overall fitting for a 1000th.

 

Mae Young's son had me legitimately cracking up. DX/BoD was great. Sometimes when one move makes it as a highlight of the night, you know it's good, and Bradshaw's CFH... hell yeah. Lesnar/HHH/Steph/Heyman was near perfect, I dunno if the crowd pop had to do with it but a little part in me jumped up too when Brock and Trips finally went at it.

 

Punk's heel turn... se-wheeeeet. There is so so much to say about The Rock. Bring in the pipebombs, the mannerisms and just.. everything that makes Punk Punk. Heel Punk >>>>

[djthefunkchris]

Heath Slater is too talented to not be on TV.

 

Could easily be a midcard gatekeeper. Man deserves PPV matches and he sold the clothesline like a champ.

I think he could be better then that, and that's saying a lot I know, but I do.

I don't mind the slater stuff at all, I think he has the potential to be a very serviceable mid card guy for years to come. And you need that guy, not everyone needs to be pushed to the main event level. Heath does his job well, and he seems like a safe guy to work with.

 

That also kinda gets to my thought on 3 hour raw. I think it Could be good, assuming WWE uses the extra time to do fleshing out of the mid card rather than just filling another hour with recaps and promo's from Cena and crew.

 

Things i would do Were I booking three hour raws.

 

1. Retire the US title, and bring in the cruiserweight belt. This gives guys like Kidd, Hunico, Cara, Bourne (if he comes back) primo, and epico and all the other assorted high fliers something to do. You can even use santino/ slater here as more brawl oriented guys.

 

2. Develop simple story lines around the mid card. Not every story needs to be a epic attempt to push a guy to the next level. mostly because 9/10 WWE tries to hard and messes them up.

 

KISS. go with a simple storyline about a guy wanting to beat another guy. introduce feuds and story's that fans can get behind, but don't need maximum investment.

 

3. Continue to bring back actual tag teams. I like the PTP, i like the uso's, I like primo and epico. Those teams and actually tag team wrestling should also help to flesh out the show.

 

4. Actually develop a diva's division. No explanation really needed. The WWE does actually have alot of female talent (natty, beth, SDR, tamina, kong, layla isn't unwatchable, aj, ect.)

 

But that division goes nowhere as long as it's relegated to fart gags and 30 second matches. Give the ladies some time to tell a story.

 

In essence post opening and middle of the show should be paced around UMC/ME segements with cool down stories based off the underrcard.

 

The problem is that the above would required good, structured writing, something WWE has proven less than capable off in the past.

I think I agree with everything you said here.

I never said Heath Slater should be a Main Eventer, or a had a chance to do so. I just think they could use him a lot better without killing his credibility. Don't get me wrong, i love Lita, but the guy lost to a woman and to old farts. That's what peolle will remember. "Oh look, the guy who loses to everyone", not the rest. That makes it difficult for him to go in any other direction in the future.

Heath Slater is more well known now, then he ever was before... Remember the golden rule, it doesn't matter what makes you noticed, no matter if you get beat by a girl every week, even the worse one's... As long as it is getting your name known...

 

What happened good for him, that you're not seeing, is the fact that every week people been watching for him to come out, because they WANT to see what legend comes out to bash him. This made him a name, a brand if you will, that wasn't there before it started.

 

I'm with you on what I think he could be.. I might even think he could be better. I don't know if I've said this before or not, but he reminds me of a young Ric Flair (without remembering seeing a young Ric, he always looked old to me). Someone that could easily get over by being bad, or ridiculously lucky. I've already said what I would do with him.

I don't really think he had any credibility to lose in the first place; he was already pretty much the guy who loses to everyone. At least with this storyline he's getting a little bit of promo time to heel it up and give people a reason to want to see him to get crushed by legends.

He's not bad at it either. I absolutely agree with you as well. His name is more well known then it ever was before. He could do this for the rest of the year, before getting a push, and I think it would work.

 

Big Show has been beaten up by every clown, celebrity, and joke that's run through that place. You put him on one "monster heel" push and it's all forgotten. He's a viable main event heel.

 

Obviously, Slater's no big show and there's no "monster heel" push for him in sight. But who knows? If they want to build him up as a credible threat all he needs is a few weeks with a decent angle, and we'll forget all about Lita (who looked incredible btw).

I agree.

Big Show has been beating the crap out of Cena for a month now and until last night during the match,, he ALWAYS entered to crickets

I haven't seen any of the shows you have been (I've seen all but maybe two). From the time he knocked out Cena, the crowds been booing him, and calling him names (Sell Out, etc.), very loudly. There are very few heels that's been getting a reaction like him lately.

 

Find me a YouTube link, or something to this, so I can see what your talking about.

[Teh_Showtime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0UHgKa7mS8&feature=player_detailpage#t=417s

 

not exactly a standing ovation

[BHK1978]

Let's not compare a professional soap opera with actual fighting. I get your point, but surely you can understand mine.

 

I get your point, but as you have often said to others your point is wrong. Well I do not really think that but I hate it when people say an opinion not based on fact is wrong, which you have often done in the past.

 

In the context of wrestling it still makes sense and does not kill his credibility. He only lost to a woman because the odds were against him.

 

The other people in that he fought were for the most part big names in the past. Well not Scotty 2 Hotty or Doink, but I would not say it kills his credibility to lose to Sid, who if he was still in the WWE could be considered a threat. Or Vader a former WCW World Champion or even Bob Backlund who held the WWF Title for what six or so years. Granted Backlund has been treated more as a joke for the last twenty years or so but he still has the prestige behind him.

 

 

I get the point you are trying to make, but Couture won that fight on paper and paper alone.

 

Maybe not the best example, probably should have went with George Foreman.

[djthefunkchris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0UHgKa7mS8&feature=player_detailpage#t=417s

 

not exactly a standing ovation

 

Not what I'd call crickets either. Probably the best example you could come up with though, so I'll just have to agree to disagree with you on it, for now. Even in that match you linked, there are several places he gets quite a bit of heat, not to mention just his entrance (although I can see there might be confusion when they cut the volume while the announcers talked about his prior match). Soon as his music come on, BOOO!!!! Two seconds prior to where that link takes me, it's even louder. Cena getting pops for getting the best of him.... means he has heat as well. IF he wasn't getting that heat, the pops would be split like normal.

 

The overall point is that he's always a legitimate threat if they push him to be one, and he gets over as such.

[bigtplaystew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0UHgKa7mS8&feature=player_detailpage#t=417s

 

not exactly a standing ovation

 

Sir, no one's been saying Big Show comes out to thunderous boos. What is your point?

[Tha Black Phenom]

To be honest, crowd heat and pops can vary with different crowds throughout cities when it comes to mainstay veterans like Big Show who've been dabbling up and down the card for years. On the other end of the spectrum, there were times when he was a babyface where certain crowds would give him one of the pops of the night, when all he'd do is come out for a match or interfere in something.

[bigtplaystew]

To be honest, crowd heat and pops can vary with different crowds throughout cities when it comes to mainstay veterans like Big Show who've been dabbling up and down the card for years. On the other end of the spectrum, there were times when he was a babyface where certain crowds would give him one of the pops of the night, when all he'd do is come out for a match or interfere in something.

 

It's pointless anyway, NO ONE is sitting here saying Big Show gets a deafening crowd reaction. It is not now and never was the point. Showtime seems determined to fight this issue that no one is arguing.

[Teh_Showtime]

I just stated that he isn't as over as its been indicated

 

I might have over exaggerated on the crickets bit but for someone doing what he has the last few months his reactions are pretty tame.

[jjohns44]

Does this mean that Cena is the first to cash in his MITB briefcase and not walk out as the champion or does he still have it? And the CM Punk turn makes sense and I had a feeling that if he was going to turn, the reasoning would probably be because even though he was made the champ and was supposed to usher in a new era of WWE, he was still pushed down the card and had to cater to Cena being always in the main event spotlight.

[soxfan93]

He cashed in. He no longer holds the briefcase, but I would hazard a guess that he'll get a rematch at Summerslam - and win.

[nucleardonkey]

He cashed in. He no longer holds the briefcase, but I would hazard a guess that he'll get a rematch at Summerslam - and win.

 

I doubt Cena even waits that long to bury Punk and return to his usual SuperCena ways. Hell he couldn't even lay down for Punk on RAW, there's no way he's gonna wait all the way until Summerslam to start whining about not being champion.