The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[shawn michaels]

Why does the WWE keep pushing PTP? Without AW they are pretty bland at the moment. At least in my opinion.

[alden]

I love the cm punk stuff. They are trying so hard to get him over as a heel and I’m not sure why its not. He is still getting a good amount of cheer’s. I don’t know if some people are truly going to ever really hate punk. In the sas he was over and had a ton of heat. Im not sure why he isn’t now. Even heyman is getting over. Maybe its because people truly don’t like cena any more and anyone that is anti-cena people will attach to. Punk puts the crowd down all the time…he will walk out of matches….he is ducking hiac now…..but he is still getting cheers. I for one love this I don’t care punk. His whole no respect stuff goes back to his pipe bomb speech…I am not sure what it will take for people to really hate punk.

[Nathers7]

I love the cm punk stuff. They are trying so hard to get him over as a heel and I’m not sure why its not. He is still getting a good amount of cheer’s. I don’t know if some people are truly going to ever really hate punk. In the sas he was over and had a ton of heat. Im not sure why he isn’t now. Even heyman is getting over. Maybe its because people truly don’t like cena any more and anyone that is anti-cena people will attach to. Punk puts the crowd down all the time…he will walk out of matches….he is ducking hiac now…..but he is still getting cheers. I for one love this I don’t care punk. His whole no respect stuff goes back to his pipe bomb speech…I am not sure what it will take for people to really hate punk.

Cena is still the same old Cena for the vast majority and is just so dislikeable in my opinion anyway (nice try with the cancer shirt though ). Punk could kill Cena's grandmother and people would still prefer Punk. What will be interesting though is how the crowd reacts when the eventual Punk - Rock feud begins. If they keep Punk's character up then we'll see the serious heat, Rock is the only guy who can bring that out though.

[Self]

CM Punk was a character people genuinely liked, and when they turned him heel they basically gave him free reign to be even more CM Punkish. Which is the thing people liked in the first place. The anti-authority, anti-corporate image. It's cool. No kidding people cheer for it.

[Moe Hunter]

Cena is still the same old Cena for the vast majority and is just so dislikeable in my opinion anyway (nice try with the cancer shirt though ). Punk could kill Cena's grandmother and people would still prefer Punk. What will be interesting though is how the crowd reacts when the eventual Punk - Rock feud begins. If they keep Punk's character up then we'll see the serious heat, Rock is the only guy who can bring that out though.

 

Yeah, Cena's promo before NoC and the opening video for the PPV where they highlight that CM Punk has changed his image/gimmick a bunch of times, and Cena criticizes him for it... It's so backwards. Punk changing is *good*. It keeps him fresh. Cena hasn't changed significantly in seven years, and people have been sick of him for a long long time.

 

Also, "real men wear Pink"? Punk wore Pink recently honouring Bret Hart, he wore Pink on the Raw after Macho Man died, he wore Pink at WM25, he wore Pink when teaming with the Hart Dynasty... And Dolph Ziggler has been wearing Pink for a long time. How is it that Cena thinks he's the hero here?

[foolinc]

Is it just me or has WWE actually figured out how to produce a 3 hour weekly wrestling program? The past two weeks have been really entertaining and easy to sit through without having a bunch of matches that should have been done on PPV.

[alden]

I really love heel punk....his roh stuff as a heel was fantastic....but i get he's moved beyond the whole straight edge makes me better then you stuff. I'd love to hear that line one more time though. Its funny that all the stuff that would get heat on a normal person...his stuff with aj would have gotten so over if say orton did it or heel christian.....but with punk it gets cheers.

[Teh_Showtime]

Is it just me or has WWE actually figured out how to produce a 3 hour weekly wrestling program? The past two weeks have been really entertaining and easy to sit through without having a bunch of matches that should have been done on PPV.

 

Kofi vs Dolph was a really great match

 

about the 104th match between them (literally actually)

[UkWrestleFan]

Really liked the Ryback / Punk staredown. The fact that they didn't play it to the live audience resulting in the eerie silence only served to add to the intensity.

 

Be interesting to see where they go from here...

[bigtplaystew]

Really liked the Ryback / Punk staredown. The fact that they didn't play it to the live audience resulting in the eerie silence only served to add to the intensity

 

I didn't even notice the dead crowd reaction because at that point I was used to it. The crowd was friggin asleep the whole night.

 

 

 

 

Is it just me or has WWE actually figured out how to produce a 3 hour weekly wrestling program? The past two weeks have been really entertaining and easy to sit through without having a bunch of matches that should have been done on PPV.

 

I agree. I think, as a TV show, they've used the three hours to their advantage (for the most part... there have been a slow episode here and there). I think they crammed 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag for the last few years, and now that they have the extra hour they can give workers time to tell us the story, in ring or on mic. It doesn't hurt that they have their two top guys going head-to-head for the last few weeks but I think the entire show from top to bottom has been MUCH better. Loving the tag matches, too!

[FINisher]

I don't know if you guys noticed but Sin Cara got unmasked on RAW for a few seconds. Click on the link to see it, I think putting url is better than a straight /img tag if people don't want to see how the guy actually looks like.

 

http://www.wzronline.com/wp-content/gallery/sin-cara-unmasked-on-raw/001.jpg

[Makhai]

I don't know if you guys noticed but Sin Cara got unmasked on RAW for a few seconds. Click on the link to see it, I think putting url is better than a straight /img tag if people don't want to see how the guy actually looks like.

 

http://www.wzronline.com/wp-content/gallery/sin-cara-unmasked-on-raw/001.jpg

 

I believe he was unmasked once or twice in Mexico during his failed Rudos run before his wildly successful adopted son of a preacher man Technico turn. I can't remember though.

[milamber]

Is it just me or has WWE actually figured out how to produce a 3 hour weekly wrestling program? The past two weeks have been really entertaining and easy to sit through without having a bunch of matches that should have been done on PPV.

 

The balance between wrestling and angles is improving on Raw.

 

Things I like about WWE right now:

 

The way creative is developing the Tag divsion - hopefully building to a Fatal 4-Way Tornado Tag Match at Survivor Series

Team Hell No

AJ's backstage interactions

Eve as an insincere babyface

Cesaro as US champ

Sandow looking great against Sheamus

Midcard Mafia (Slater, McIntyre & Mahal)

Punk/Ryback staredown

Ricardo on commentary "Kofi's cheating!"

[critical-23]

I enjoyed RAW--more specifically the Rey/Sin Cara vs Primo/Epico match (in spite of Primo messing up a headscissors bump lol).

 

I guess because I'm getting older I've kinda accepted the fact that the WWE is about entertainment and not wrestling so the angles don't bother me that much anymore which has led me to concentrate more of the actual wrestling in the ring where I saw Ryback and Tensai mess up the finish that Ryback has done before. Don't know who to really blame for that one spot but if Ryback would have pulled it off on a live RAW I believe his staredown with Punk would have garnered more crowd reaction.

[Jaysin]

http://www.tmz.com/2012/10/02/wwe-shawn-daivari-train-rescue-choke-hold/

 

Daivari is a hero!

[critical-23]

No one put TOO much of the blame on Tensai for the botched finish--Ryback was out of position LOL.

[Rone Rivendale]

Like I told my friend thru txt last nite "Tensai is a fat bastard"

[critical-23]

Like I told my friend thru txt last nite "Tensai is a fat bastard"

 

Tensai is a big bastard, true, but I've watched the first Ryback/Tensai match from Smackdown then watched the RAW match again and it was definitely on Ryback to make the move work.

[Guest codey]

I'm just hoping it will lead to Ryback changing his finisher. The Shellshock should be a 2-count move for him, his lariat is much more impressive.

[bigtplaystew]

Tensai is a big bastard, true, but I've watched the first Ryback/Tensai match from Smackdown then watched the RAW match again and it was definitely on Ryback to make the move work.

 

You mean Tensai didn't "block" it? Lol. gotta love goold ol' J.R.

 

 

It was a sloppy show all around. Even Punk's promos were a mess. I didn't like Punk backing down from Ryback but I guess the only real option would be a huge pull-apart brawl and maybe they didn't want to spend that much more time. I just think it was silly for Punk to say, "I've never backed down from a fight" as he would 5 minutes later back down from Ryback - again. On one hand, it wouldn't be the first time an egotistical heel showed a delusional side to his apparent talent, but the whole angle with punk thus far has been that he's a bad guy WITH A CAUSE. He's kind of always portrayed a heel with a point of view which always added depth to the character. So it's a minor complaint. Not a make or break thing. Just wasn't a big fan of how they handled that.

[crownsy]

You mean Tensai didn't "block" it? Lol. gotta love goold ol' J.R.

 

 

It was a sloppy show all around. Even Punk's promos were a mess. I didn't like Punk backing down from Ryback but I guess the only real option would be a huge pull-apart brawl and maybe they didn't want to spend that much more time. I just think it was silly for Punk to say, "I've never backed down from a fight" as he would 5 minutes later back down from Ryback - again. On one hand, it wouldn't be the first time an egotistical heel showed a delusional side to his apparent talent, but the whole angle with punk thus far has been that he's a bad guy WITH A CAUSE. He's kind of always portrayed a heel with a point of view which always added depth to the character. So it's a minor complaint. Not a make or break thing. Just wasn't a big fan of how they handled that.

 

That aspect of his character has been gone since MITB Chicago.

 

His current character doesn't have "a cause" other than to get people to "respect" him, and he's clearly gone full heel with regards to what he considers "disrespect"

 

He is full fledged oppurtinist heel at this point. He cheats and avoids the challange till he has to take it. the only thing that the've maintained about his heel persona, which I've liked, is that once he DOES get pinned down, he can actually back it up in the ring, which is where i think WWE has ruined it's heels the last 5-6 years.

 

I'm ok with a heel being a hypocrit and not wanting to fight after saying he doesn't back down. What i'm NOT ok with, and what (so far) the've avoided with Punk is that once it comes to it, every Heel is an overmatched crybaby who has to cheat like a demon just to have a chance against the "Good Guy who finally got the match he wanted and dominated!"

 

This heel punk is fine with me because he's more like those heels of the past Who might have been jerks, hypocrits, what have you but could back it up in the ring and didn't need to win by a cheap finish every stinking time.

 

You can book a heel strong in a match if you do it right. TNA started to get back to this with Rhoode (at the end of his run) and Aeris, and hopefully WWE is now starting that trend with Punk at least (don't get me started on ziggler, del rio, cody, miz ect, have any of them won clean over anyone above a mid carder this year?)

 

I think the Ryback angle is fine. Punk is just going to play it into a disrespect angle next week"who is this guy to talk to me? why should i fight him, he's earned nothing!", Ryback gets a rub as the huge dude everyone has to watch out for who protects the downtrodden, and punk won't actually lose anything because Ryback is a temp stand in for Cena who (unless WWE is idiotic, which has been known to happen) won't actually get a meanigful win over punk. He might get a cheap one (tag pin, interferance with punk, punk scheme backfires) but nothing that will hurt punk.

 

I think they've been doing a good job with heel punk, and i'm intrested to see where this goes. I'm thinking Punk keeps playing up the disrespect card till he says "screw this, i'll force you to fear/ respect me!" and starts a stable with brock/heyman. I think that could be an awesome storyline, doubly so if you give some devlopmental guys a rub ala evolution with Randy and Batista.

[bigtplaystew]

You know what, crownsy?!?!?

 

You're absolutely right :-)

 

I didn't really think of it that way. But you're right I mean this latest heel turn has seem him do plenty of creepy and cowardly things. I guess I just WISH he'd tow a more realistic, bad-ass line but they probably want him to be as hated as possible.

[djthefunkchris]

That aspect of his character has been gone since MITB Chicago.

 

His current character doesn't have "a cause" other than to get people to "respect" him, and he's clearly gone full heel with regards to what he considers "disrespect"

 

He is full fledged oppurtinist heel at this point. He cheats and avoids the challange till he has to take it. the only thing that the've maintained about his heel persona, which I've liked, is that once he DOES get pinned down, he can actually back it up in the ring, which is where i think WWE has ruined it's heels the last 5-6 years.

 

I'm ok with a heel being a hypocrit and not wanting to fight after saying he doesn't back down. What i'm NOT ok with, and what (so far) the've avoided with Punk is that once it comes to it, every Heel is an overmatched crybaby who has to cheat like a demon just to have a chance against the "Good Guy who finally got the match he wanted and dominated!"

 

This heel punk is fine with me because he's more like those heels of the past Who might have been jerks, hypocrits, what have you but could back it up in the ring and didn't need to win by a cheap finish every stinking time.

 

You can book a heel strong in a match if you do it right. TNA started to get back to this with Rhoode (at the end of his run) and Aeris, and hopefully WWE is now starting that trend with Punk at least (don't get me started on ziggler, del rio, cody, miz ect, have any of them won clean over anyone above a mid carder this year?)

 

I think the Ryback angle is fine. Punk is just going to play it into a disrespect angle next week"who is this guy to talk to me? why should i fight him, he's earned nothing!", Ryback gets a rub as the huge dude everyone has to watch out for who protects the downtrodden, and punk won't actually lose anything because Ryback is a temp stand in for Cena who (unless WWE is idiotic, which has been known to happen) won't actually get a meanigful win over punk. He might get a cheap one (tag pin, interferance with punk, punk scheme backfires) but nothing that will hurt punk.

 

I think they've been doing a good job with heel punk, and i'm intrested to see where this goes. I'm thinking Punk keeps playing up the disrespect card till he says "screw this, i'll force you to fear/ respect me!" and starts a stable with brock/heyman. I think that could be an awesome storyline, doubly so if you give some devlopmental guys a rub ala evolution with Randy and Batista.

Just to ad to this a bit.

 

It's also curious that when he does lose, he seems to have a legit excuse "My leg was on the rope". So far that has made him a cloudy heel, because he has had a legit claim.

 

I don't know CM Punk personally, but every time I've seen him interviewed outside of a wrestling atmosphere, or where he really don't need to hold on to his character, even when he was a good guy... He comes off as really liking to be the Heel character to me. I've never heard him personally say that, but I imagine he probably has and I've just not found it (haven't really looked for it though).

 

Just an interesting point I wanted to make, because I feel like that might actually hold him back from being remembered as a "Stone-Cold/Rock" type historically... I can see him being compared more to Rowdy Piper (my favorite heel ever-1980's) types.

[bigtplaystew]

Being a heel has to be more fun

[crownsy]

You know what, crownsy?!?!?

 

You're absolutely right :-)

 

I didn't really think of it that way. But you're right I mean this latest heel turn has seem him do plenty of creepy and cowardly things. I guess I just WISH he'd tow a more realistic, bad-ass line but they probably want him to be as hated as possible.

 

I'm with you on that one Stew, I think there trapped by two things from letting Punk be the anti-face heel.

 

1) "pipe bomb" punk isn't sustanable long term without hurting the product. I mean, it's all well and good for him to go off on Cena and Vmac, but remeber when he was done with Cena? Those first few fueds, he pretty much utterly destroyed guys characters and made them look corny as hell.

 

The problem with unleashing the guy who lets the crowd know how stupid the product is, is eventually people go "yea....why am i watching this?" and punk is so good at eveciserating a guy he's up against that eventually it does more harm than good. With cena, it doesn't matter, but when he's slaughtering del rio or zigglers character....

 

2) WWE sucks at making heels, because of our discusion above, so they need punk to be a top heel. They don't have another established guy because they make them look like flops when a top babyface gets ahold of them.

 

To thier credit, i think there is an effort to address this now (Bryan, Brock kinda) but they just don't have strong heels because guys they made strong (miz, cody as IC champ, del rio) they've thrown at the alter of the babyfaces, and made look stupid in defeat.