TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Another member of the Machida family has stated his intentions to become a full time mixed martial artist. Shinzo Machida (1-1) is Lyoto's older brother and best known as his cornerman, but the 33 year old is the highest placed Brazilian ever win the World Shotokan Karate tournament in Japan, where he finished as runner up. He has stated that he plans to fight in the 155ibs division. He told sherdog.com that his agents were already trying to gain talks with Zuffa promotions, but made no mention of Strikeforce or the Japanese promotions. His two MMA fights both came back in Brazil's Jungle Fights promotion. In 2005 he defeated Cristiano Rosa through strikes on the ground and in 2006 he was submitted via guillotine choke by Bryan Rafiq. So, he's got the striking pedigree to make this huge. What do we think? Flash in the pan or, if he takes things seriously, the next UFC LW Champion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleisch Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Another member of the Machida family has stated his intentions to become a full time mixed martial artist. Shinzo Machida (1-1) is Lyoto's older brother and best known as his cornerman, but the 33 year old is the highest placed Brazilian ever win the World Shotokan Karate tournament in Japan, where he finished as runner up. He has stated that he plans to fight in the 155ibs division. He told sherdog.com that his agents were already trying to gain talks with Zuffa promotions, but made no mention of Strikeforce or the Japanese promotions. His two MMA fights both came back in Brazil's Jungle Fights promotion. In 2005 he defeated Cristiano Rosa through strikes on the ground and in 2006 he was submitted via guillotine choke by Bryan Rafiq. So, he's got the striking pedigree to make this huge. What do we think? Flash in the pan or, if he takes things seriously, the next UFC LW Champion? I can't see him being the UFC LW Champion. I think he'll have a few good fights before fading out, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeanOfWhipedCream Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 has anyone seen either of his fights? Because how can you judge him unless you've seen him fight? The only thing we can go is his brother and if he's like his brother then I wanna see him fight. If he signs for WEC or UFC then I shall look forward to watching him fight. Until then all I can say really is I'll be keeping an eye on the situation. Although having said that to win the 155 title in the UFC he'd have to beat BJ Penn. And BJ Penn is probably the best 155er on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 The quality's shocking, the commentary's in Portugese, but the wonders of youtube present both of Shinzo's fights with JF. vs. Brian Rafiq (Machida=black and white trunks, red tape.): vs. Cristiano Rosa (Machida=black trunks): (Ignore the fact he's called Chinzo in this, it's a different rendering of the name, which is traditionally written in Japanese script.) I've watched the Rosa one, and his stance is exactly the same as Lyotos - wide, low, high lead hand. Seems to be able to stuff takedowns too, but didn't see any ground game cos Rosa couldn't get him to the floor. I'll watch the Rafiq one now and comment on it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I did karate for 15 years to a high level and have more MMA fights than this guy, am I gonna be the next welterweight champion? It's far too early to say anything about this guy yet. That said, he's already in his 30's and only just getting into MMA. That doesn't bode well. Neither does getting submitted in a fight against a guy you're supposed to beat. Being great at karate doesn't make you a great MMA fighter. Lyoto is a great MMA fighter, who is able to use his karate to compliment his MMA game. There are a ton of Gracies who never amounted to anything in the UFC. I think I'd actually resent this guy a little if he got into the UFC on the back of the Machida name ahead of guys who have toiled for 3-4 years taking fights in regional shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 No offence, Brashley, but the key statement in my first post was he was 2nd place in the WORLD SHOTOKAN KARATE CHAMPIONSHIPS. That's not high level, that's the upper echelons. He's one of the best Karate practioners alive today. Now he's joining MMA, yes, at 33, he'll be training every day with his brother, who will teach him the basics to sprawl and brawling and surviving on the ground, and suddenly you have a fighter capable of outpointing any wrestlers and ground fighters. If he can get some basic BJJ and Wrestling down his throat he has the striking base to be one of the leading lights at 155ibs. There are no fighters currently fighting in that weight class who can hold a candle to his credentials striking: BJ is a solid boxer, Gomi has heavy hands and likes to bang, but no-one is a techincally brilliant as Machida. Yes, his first fights will probably be booing desicions wins as he outpoints wrestlers, but so were Lyoto's. Think: how would BJ Penn deal with a fighter who can outstrike him? Take him down? BJ's takedowns are good, but not great. Clinch up? Unlikely, unless he feels he can weather the storm on the way in. So that leaves standing and fighting. Should he get Shinzo down, you'd hope he will have picked up Lyoto's sound defensive ground game, and be able to surivive. I point you towards Chuck Liddell, who beat Tito Ortiz, once considered unstoppable, through Sprawl and Brawling, and Maurice Smith, who defeated superlative wrestler Mark Coleman for the UFC Heavyweight crown by tying him up on the ground, letting him wear himself out, before knocking him cold with his superlative striking. Shinzo has the ability. He has the right setting to become brilliant. If he trains hard, I can seriously see him being a big name in the 155ibs weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeanOfWhipedCream Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thanks I'll check out those later on youtube - at work at the moment - boo work and not being able to watch youtube MMA fights whenever I want. But I think it'll be very interesting to see if he does sign for the UFC. There are some truly great fighters in the UFC at 155. I think he'll have to work very hard to beat a BJ Penn. I think he'll have to work to get to BJ. Florian, Sherk, Gomi, Stevenson to name just 4 guys that will all pose problems. If he turns up and is better then his brother then it will be very interesting. But as we saw at UFC 104 his brother ain't all that. He lost to Shogun plain and simple. Also take a look at Machida Vs Ortiz - if Ortiz hadn't been rushing those submission attempts at the end of round 3 cause the bell was coming up I think he could have caught him. Re watched that fight last night thats the conclusion I came too. but with BJ Penn - even if he comes in and puts together an awesome run of wins we're a year at the very least away from him fighting BJ Penn - and Penn just keeps getting better. But it's a little silly to talk how he'd fight against a BJ Penn. Let's see how he does against a Grey Maynard, Ross Pearson, Nate Diaz, Diego Sanchez, Glay Guida or Roger Huerta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 True, I suppose. I was just pointing out his potential. And another thing, Bryan Rafiq is a natural 185ibs-er. Though Shinzo weighed in at a similar level, he is very, very small for that weight class. It's not surprising, therefore, that Rafiq basically crushed the life out of him on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeanOfWhipedCream Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 oh I know we're basically talking potential and his level of Karate is an interesting base. I will watch his fights tonight and comment later about what I think of him. I think its really early but its certainly an interesting discussion for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No offence, Brashley, but the key statement in my first post was he was 2nd place in the WORLD SHOTOKAN KARATE CHAMPIONSHIPS. I'm assuming that you've read the Sherdog article about him then.... Do you know what the World Shotokan Karate Championship actually is? The WSKA is a governing body that oversees Karate tourney's around the world. What Machida was in was a small tournement overseen by the WSKA. It was *not* a world rankings tournament. It was such an insignificant event, it isn't even archived in the accociation's website. He didn't even win it. And it was four years ago. So was his last MMA fight. ***SHOCK-HORROR! TRADITIONAL MARTIAL-ARTIST'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS HYPERBOLIZED!!!*** He's so far from the top of the karate world it isn't even funny. (By all accounts he is an excellent teacher though). Lets say he was the top Karate fighter in the world - how many Karate guys do you see competing at a significant level in modern MMA? Lyoto Machida? Chuck Liddell? GSP? Ed Ratcliff? They all claim a Karate background, but it's their individual talents as MMA fighters that got them where they are. There are no fighters currently fighting in that weight class who can hold a candle to his credentials striking I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you've never seen him throw a punch outside of the vids in this thread. If that's your basis for deciding that nobody at 155 can hold a candle to his striking, then wow, I don't know what to say to you. I point you towards Chuck Liddell, who beat Tito Ortiz, once considered unstoppable, through Sprawl and Brawling, and Maurice Smith, who defeated superlative wrestler Mark Coleman for the UFC Heavyweight crown by tying him up on the ground, letting him wear himself out, before knocking him cold with his superlative striking. Not that either of those examples have anything to do with a 33 year old Karate practitioner crossing over to MMA, but...Liddells spraw came from his Division 1 wrestling career and six years of high-level MMA experience. Smith-Coleman is completely irrelevent as Coleman was as one-dimentional as they come. People arent anymore. Smith also had a recognised career as a full contact kickboxer and held legitimate world championships (WKA and WKC, when they ment something) in that sport. Shinzo has the ability You have nothing to base that on aside from two videos and an intentionally vauge comment in a news article. You're just guessing. If he had the exact same crededtials and was called Shinzo Jones, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 So he has a very talented brother and now may move to MMA full-time, so we've decided he can beat the best LW in the world already...? Just wow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capelli King Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I have to agree with brashley here, 2 fights in MMA, lost one and both were ages ago, 33 years old with a good Karate background..................hmm, right now the best thing going for him is his brothers name value. Winning the 155 title or even being a contender? I hope that is not the case, because if it is and a 1-1 Karate guy can come in and be seriously considered a contender of the biggest organization in MMA, then UFC must be in a serious black hole;) I predict him coming in, having a few well hyped fights, performing average and then fading away once he hits middle age (which is not that far away) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 *Bites tounge and steps away* Yep, should have checked how prestigious the Shotokan Karate thing he won was before I waxed poetic about how awesome the guy was. Yes, I know Smith held Kickboxing titles, and I also agree that Coleman was one dimensional, but the guy has heavy hands. Lyoto has trained Sumo and BJJ as well, hence his well rounded-ness. Though you have holed my argument so critically I'm not going to bother with another long post counter arguing, I am still going to state that he will be a force in the Lightweight divison. Training with Lyoto everyday does that to a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 *Bites tounge and steps away* Yep, should have checked how prestigious the Shotokan Karate thing he won was before I waxed poetic about how awesome the guy was. Yes, I know Smith held Kickboxing titles, and I also agree that Coleman was one dimensional, but the guy has heavy hands. Lyoto has trained Sumo and BJJ as well, hence his well rounded-ness. Though you have holed my argument so critically I'm not going to bother with another long post counter arguing, I am still going to state that he will be a force in the Lightweight divison. Training with Lyoto everyday does that to a guy. And this is based on what proof? Training against world class fighters always helps, but its not as if makes someone a "sure thing". And please point to Anderson Silva and the Nogueira brothers as the proof, as they were elite already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 He will be Jason Guida-esque. But maybe a little better... but the "analogy" (close enough to one) stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 And this is based on what proof? Training against world class fighters always helps, but its not as if makes someone a "sure thing". And please point to Anderson Silva and the Nogueira brothers as the proof, as they were elite already. The Lion's Den. Greg Johnson's Submission Fighting. Chute Box. Fact is, most great fighters were made great by another fighter. Frank Shamrock probably wouldn't have been as great if he hadn't trained with Ken, Guy Mezger and so forth. Is it a simple coincidence that so many great fighters call Greg Johnson's team there home, spar together every day and look like better fighters whenever they step into the Octogan. Mauricio Rua, Murilio Rua, Wanderlei Silva, Thiago Silva, they all trained up at Chute Box. Together. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Is it a simple coincidence that so many great fighters call Greg Johnson's team there home Yeah, but those Greg Johnson guys have nothing on Greg Jackson's boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKenwyne Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 FAIL. Just reading a story on Five Oz. where some punk mistook Greg Nelson (Minesota) with Jackson (New Mexico) and I was laughing at him. Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleisch Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 has anyone seen either of his fights? Because how can you judge him unless you've seen him fight? The only thing we can go is his brother and if he's like his brother then I wanna see him fight. If he signs for WEC or UFC then I shall look forward to watching him fight. Until then all I can say really is I'll be keeping an eye on the situation. Although having said that to win the 155 title in the UFC he'd have to beat BJ Penn. And BJ Penn is probably the best 155er on the planet. I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't seen either of his fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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