Real Life worker having 100 attribute....

[Bombstriker]

- I don't know how all the modders out there work but do you think there would actually be a real life worker with 100 hardcore? I'm not sure how rare it is to have a 100 attribute but I think I know an indy guy that deserves to be as "hardcore" as possible.

 

It is the guy in my avatar, Thumbtack Jack. Some of you indy fed fans might be familiar with him he is from Germany and he is the most hardcore/ultraviolent fighter to ever lace up his boots. We are talking about a guy who uses syringes in his matches!!!! I mean dear lord! If you don't know what I'm talking about here is the proof that this guy is sick, twisted, and deserves to be a 100....

 

 

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2071%20(9).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(1).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(3).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(9).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2073%20(2).JPG

 

 

- Can't really argue that lol! Who else would you real world modders list as having a 100 attribute (any category)?

[Kobe1724]

- I don't know how all the modders out there work but do you think there would actually be a real life worker with 100 hardcore? I'm not sure how rare it is to have a 100 attribute but I think I know an indy guy that deserves to be as "hardcore" as possible.

 

It is the guy in my avatar, Thumbtack Jack. Some of you indy fed fans might be familiar with him he is from Germany and he is the most hardcore/ultraviolent fighter to ever lace up his boots. We are talking about a guy who uses syringes in his matches!!!! I mean dear lord! If you don't know what I'm talking about here is the proof that this guy is sick, twisted, and deserves to be a 100....

 

 

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2071%20(9).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(1).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(3).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2072%20(9).JPG

http://www.lylecwilliams.com/czw2073%20(2).JPG

 

 

- Can't really argue that lol! Who else would you real world modders list as having a 100 attribute (any category)?

 

I can only bow to the king of hardcore.

 

Shelton Benjamin is probably a 100ish athlete. Hogan and Andre were 100 Star Quality.

[Adam Ryland]

The Hardcore stat relates to how good their performance in hardcore-related matches are, not how willing they are to do stupid stunts - presumably if that guy was putting on amazing matches he would be slightly more famous.

[MrCanada]

The Hardcore stat relates to how good their performance in hardcore-related matches are, not how willing they are to do stupid stunts - presumably if that guy was putting on amazing matches he would be slightly more famous.

 

Mick Foley in his hey-day might get 100 hardcore.

[Bombstriker]

Thumbtack Jack (above) is actually very technical sound and can really go at a high intensity pace. His matches are very popular among the deathmatch fans and he really does work well.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me Adam, I actually am not yet 100% familiar with everything! Would that stat be better used for Brawling or is that something entirely different?

[Jaded]

Thumbtack Jack (above) is actually very technical sound and can really go at a high intensity pace. His matches are very popular among the deathmatch fans and he really does work well.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me Adam, I actually am not yet 100% familiar with everything! Would that stat be better used for Brawling or is that something entirely different?

 

Hardcore is how good they are at hardcore-related matches.

Brawling is how good they are at brawling-related matches.

Aerial is how good they are at aerial-related matches.

 

And so on...

[NicoTheUnique]

Adam, i dont realy know myself, but would RVD have high hardcore skill?...he would use weapons in such inovate ways in his matches...and some of them are awsome?

 

-Nico

[Derek B]

The problem with giving anyone a 100 in any stat, is that you are saying "this worker cannot get any better a this aspect of wrestling". In terms of top row stats, there is pretty much not a single person on the planet that could be given that stat as there is always a little room to get better.

 

There are very few people that should even be getting above a 90 (A) let alone a 95 (A*).... 100s should be few and far between. Reputation should always start at 100, as it only goes down after bad things have happened. But other than that, there are very few guys who can justify an A*, let alone a 100.

 

Guys like The Rock, Austin and Hogan could get A* mic work and charisma. Rock and Hogan would probably get A* star quality in their primes, though Hogan would NOT get it now as it faded to far less a long time ago.

 

I know it's all subjective and therefore REALLY hard to quantify, but modders should aim slightly on the low side rather than on the high side, meaning 100s pretty much should never exist.

[Gigas]

highest rating in c verse is B+. Not one A rumbler in the whole game.

[Bombstriker]

I understand your point derek about always having room to improve and since there is no real stat to show how crazy someone like Thumbtack Jack would be it would come down to his overall "hardcore match type" performance and that would probably not be 100 but it would be very high.

 

As far as doing crazy and insane stuff, this guy would be 110, the only thing he hasn't done is get shot in the middle of the ring and dear lord don't let anyone give him that idea. In CZW they chant "You sick ****" to him and they are right he is one crazy SOB.

 

As far as the hardcore rating it would probably be hovering around that 95 mark. But if anyone would be taken into consideration for a 100 it is this guy for that type of stat.

[Adam Ryland]

As far as the hardcore rating it would probably be hovering around that 95 mark. But if anyone would be taken into consideration for a 100 it is this guy for that type of stat.

 

That seems unlikely - a 95 would mean that he's regularly putting on Match Of The Year candidates and is one of the best in the world. While I've never seen the wrestler in question, it's unlikely that somebody that good is completely unknown and is doing stunts with syringes. It sounds like you're confusing cult-like devotion with skill - a lot of the CZW workers did insane stunts, it didn't mean they were actually any good in terms of stats.

[Remianen]

Adam, i dont realy know myself, but would RVD have high hardcore skill?...he would use weapons in such inovate ways in his matches...and some of them are awsome?

 

-Nico

 

No. Just because a worker uses weapons in ways that some people find "awesome" doesn't automatically mean they're awesome at hardcore matches. Personally, I'd give RVD midrange (good) hardcore because he doesn't hang his hat on hardcore matches. Think of people like Foley, Necro Butcher, LuFisto, Megumi Kudo, maybe Sabu and New Jack, people who made their name specifically on that match type. RVD did hardcore matches but he's not (to quote Ric Flair) "a glorified stuntman".

 

As far as the hardcore rating it would probably be hovering around that 95 mark. But if anyone would be taken into consideration for a 100 it is this guy for that type of stat.

 

So, it is your opinion that Thumbtack Jack is the greatest hardcore match worker of all time? Remember that when making a mod, you have to scale everything. So if Thumbtack Jack is the top, the gold standard as it were, everyone else has to be rated by his scale/in comparison to him. You can have a lot of people who are 'very good' at something like that but once you peg someone 'the greatest', you really can't have a whole lot of people in their company (as far as top row skills go. Star Quality and Sex Appeal aren't the same in that respect). If you do, that leads to attribute inflation and can lead to weird things like Jack winding up in WWE because his Rumble average is so high. You say he has good technical skill as well, which means that even if you make him a 'Psychopath', he could change styles during play and whoop, why the heck is he in TNA?

 

It's not as easy as 'this guy is great!'. Sometimes concessions have to be made for mod stability.

[Derek B]

I understand your point derek about always having room to improve and since there is no real stat to show how crazy someone like Thumbtack Jack would be it would come down to his overall "hardcore match type" performance and that would probably not be 100 but it would be very high.

 

As far as doing crazy and insane stuff, this guy would be 110, the only thing he hasn't done is get shot in the middle of the ring and dear lord don't let anyone give him that idea. In CZW they chant "You sick ****" to him and they are right he is one crazy SOB.

 

As far as the hardcore rating it would probably be hovering around that 95 mark. But if anyone would be taken into consideration for a 100 it is this guy for that type of stat.

 

That seems unlikely - a 95 would mean that he's regularly putting on Match Of The Year candidates and is one of the best in the world. While I've never seen the wrestler in question, it's unlikely that somebody that good is completely unknown and is doing stunts with syringes. It sounds like you're confusing cult-like devotion with skill - a lot of the CZW workers did insane stunts, it didn't mean they were actually any good in terms of stats.

 

This. A perfect example of a mistake that almost every real world mod maker falls into, then how it should be looked at by the guy who makes the games.

 

The hardcore stat is about the quality of the match that is put on, not the willingness to take a sick bump. As of TEW2010, sick bumps can be specifically assigned to happen and give a boost to a match. As we are talking TEW stats, that boost comes on top of his basic stats. And since no major news-site are citing him as the greatest wrestler in the planet, that means his stats (in TEW terms) are likely in a very average range. With averaging meaning he's not better than 50.

 

Working in an environment that encourages blood and gives rave reviews is simply a reflection of the promotional products he is working with.

 

And as an example to mod makers in general... check out guys in the Cornellverse with hardcore skills. Guys described as insanely violent are not the same as guys described as good.

 

---

 

And as for RVD, I would have given him a pretty good hardcore stat back in his ECW and early WWE days... but as with many wrestlers, his skills have faded over the years. At a guess, given the exceptional talent that RVD is, I'd probably give him a hardcore rating in the 60s. At his peak, probably in the high 70s and with a very high degree of flashiness.

[Bombstriker]

He isn't *completely* unknown, he is very well known by all deathmatch fans. But very true if a 95 means he puts on match of the year performances every time he gets in the ring, no one is that good. See these are things that I'm so glad people are clearing up before the game comes out. I understand what you mean, he does have skill but obviously not nearly that good.

[Skummy]

Take away the Deathmatch stuff and Thumbtack Jack has absolutely nothing going for him. He doesn't deserve anything like a 90 in ANYTHING. I've never seen him put on a genuinely enjoyable match with anyone, just matches where he does a lot of sick stuff for the shock factor - which is completely different to wrestling a good hardcore match, it's just spots strung together.

[Bombstriker]

Well I was under the impression that the "Hardcore" stat meant that is how hardcore the worker is willing to go, so you have to understand that from the first post. No one said TJ is the best wrestler on the planet lol, I was just saying he would have a high score for his deathmatch type..... matches.... (Sounds weird). Certainly no need to bash anyone though. Regardless, Adam has answered my questions for sure, see I am unfamiliar with the TEW stats, I have actually yet to play any of them. I only played EWR back in the day with things much more simple.

 

TJ is an average technical wrestler however, he wouldn't be higher than a 60 in that category though. As for hardcore though that is pretty much what deathmatches are, spotfests. And he does have flow to his matches plus he sells very well so I wouldn't say he has nothing going for him.

[praguepride]

He isn't *completely* unknown, he is very well known by all deathmatch fans. But very true if a 95 means he puts on match of the year performances every time he gets in the ring, no one is that good. See these are things that I'm so glad people are clearing up before the game comes out. I understand what you mean, he does have skill but obviously not nearly that good.

 

I hate to say it but even that is questionable. The stat you're thinking of is Toughness & Resilience.

 

Toughness would allow him to do the sick stuff he does and appear "hardcore" while Resilience wuold let him actually keep on doing it.

 

So you're "95 in Hardcore" should instead go into "95 in toughness" but toughness isn't a measure of in-ring performance, it just helps workers fit into specific products & gimmicks.

 

All in all, the willingness to do absolutely crazy stuff is a gimmick, not a performance trait.

[dvdWarrior]

As a general rule, I usually think of a guy with any of the offensive stats, (you know the ones), in the 80s as the best in the world, and the guys that pass 90 in any of those stats as very, very special wrestlers - once in a lifetime-type dudes. Also, it might be a good idea to base your opinions on stats on the 0 end of the spectrum rather than the 100 end - 'this guy must be pretty good, he made it all the way up to 50' rather than 'this guy's not so hot, he's a good 30-40 points short of 100', if that makes sense.

 

[Bombstriker]

Thanks praguepride, I was wondering what kind of trait it would fall under lol!

[praguepride]

Agreed. Keep in mind that your typical "good" WWE worker has stats in the B range, which is what, 70's and 80's. Guys like Jericho and Batista and HHH, stats in the B range.

 

That's why real world mods are often inflated because they view things within a narrow scope.

 

"HHH is the top player for a global company so he HAS to have A* stats all around"

 

The few people who've ever had A* stats are LEGENDS. Austin. The Rock. Hogan. Hell, even Andre might be debatable...

[Jaded]

Just looking at the CVerse to see what the top guys have got - anyone know which wrestler DOES have a 100 rating in a 'top row' stat? I'm guessing Derek will, obviously!

[Derek B]

Just looking at the CVerse to see what the top guys have got - anyone know which wrestler DOES have a 100 rating in a 'top row' stat? I'm guessing Derek will, obviously!

 

Off the top of my head in the 08 data (which I've not used for a while now )... I think Jeremy Stone and Yoshimi Mushashibo might have 100s in submissions. But otherwise, no-one else even springs to mind at all.

 

In the '97 data, no-one at all.

 

And PP, Batista would be lucky to get above a low 60s rating for brawling. Which isn't to say he's bad, just that he isn't a great brawler, even though that's his main skill. He is certainily over , has great camera skills and solid enough performance skills (which is why he performs well in an overness driven product)... but his top row is nothing special (which is why he'd suffer in a performance based product).

[Jaded]

Off the top of my head in the 08 data (which I've not used for a while now )... I think Jeremy Stone and Yoshimi Mushashibo might have 100s in submissions.

 

I knew you'd get it... (BAH about the data, btw!)

 

Jezza is 100 in submissions, Yoshimi is only (only?!) 98.

 

For the benefit of people who are unfamiliar with the CVerse, Tommy Cornell - who the world is NAMED after - only had two 'top row' skills above 90, with Mat Work 92 and Chain Wrestling 94.

 

Christian Faith, multi time World champion, has brawling 61 and nothing else above 50. RDJ, one of the main figureheads of TCW, which is based equally on performance and popularity, has brawling 66 and nothing else above 50. Wolf Hawkins, one of the top rising stars, has chain wrestling 74 as his highest stat.

 

For newcomers to the game, it's worth realising that the top row stats don't NEED to be that high to produce good matches.

[Comradebot]

Off the top of my head in the 08 data (which I've not used for a while now )... I think Jeremy Stone and Yoshimi Mushashibo might have 100s in submissions. But otherwise, no-one else even springs to mind at all.

 

In the '97 data, no-one at all.

 

And PP, Batista would be lucky to get above a low 60s rating for brawling. Which isn't to say he's bad, just that he isn't a great brawler, even though that's his main skill. He is certainily over , has great camera skills and solid enough performance skills (which is why he performs well in an overness driven product)... but his top row is nothing special (which is why he'd suffer in a performance based product).

 

I'm with Derek on Batista. In terms of in-ring abilities, I'd be tempted to make him a straight copy of Runaway Train. He's a solid enough brawler to be a main eventer, and has the performance abilities to obviously work said matches, but this average (for a main eventer) talent is mostly suplemented (I butchered that) by an awesome look.

 

Good basics, solid psychology, consistent, and an "above average" brawler. I'd probably give him a mid to higher range C, with MAYBE a few F+s or a single E- in his technical skills.

 

And Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant don't have A* in ANY top row skill. Both probably had it for Star Quality, and Andre DEFINETLY gets an A* in Menace, but neither were close to being the best in the world at anything in the top row. I'd put Hogan in a similar category to Batista (though with marginally higher technical skills, but an abyssmal Stiffness rating), while Andre the Giant... would actually have Dish Technical skills in my mind, with again "above average" brawling (maybe C+, he was pretty good.) Andre actually had some solid technical ability to him, despite his size.

[Bigpapa42]

Agreed. Keep in mind that your typical "good" WWE worker has stats in the B range, which is what, 70's and 80's. Guys like Jericho and Batista and HHH, stats in the B range.

 

That's why real world mods are often inflated because they view things within a narrow scope.

 

"HHH is the top player for a global company so he HAS to have A* stats all around"

 

The few people who've ever had A* stats are LEGENDS. Austin. The Rock. Hogan. Hell, even Andre might be debatable...

 

Yeah, that's something I've noticed. And in some cases, something I actually appreciate. While its not realistic and it makes running the WWE (or even TNA, potentially) fairly easy, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I agree that the CV should obviously provide a basis for a real world mod. That makes running the WWE quite similar to running the SWF, which means that putting on B- and C+ shows can easily happen and lead to a fall to Cult. One could argue that isn't realistic either (mainly based on the logic that the WWE is really putting on shows of that quality at this point and obviously remaining global in status). So with inflated stats, it makes running the WWE (or TNA, or even ROH) easier. And while "easier" isn't always realistic, it can make for games that are more fun. So in a sense, I think it depends on the end goal of the mod maker with that particular mod - do you want to be as realistic as humanly possible in terms of individual worker stats, or more easily playable.