Gigas Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Seems like something should be said in suggestions forum.
The-619 Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 in the real world the 90's are a great example. how many workers did wcw take from wwe with obscene contracts, yet one could argue they were never actually more 'prestigious' than wwe. in fact, they never would have even gotten off the ground before diesel and razor ramon waltzed in with $$ and CC. This is a very good example, WCW just had the money to offer their competitions' workers big deals and I think this is something that needs to be fixed.
ampulator Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 I can understand all that from a game perspective, but in the real world, I am pretty sure of most pro wrestlers will tell you that if you arent in the business to make as much money as possible for yourself and your family, then you're a mark for yourself. You aren't wrong, but neither am I. I merely forgot to point what you said: Money is important. But it's not the only thing. And for one thing in a war, where two promotions have equal or near-equal popularity, momentum, and money, it's not exactly a wise "business" decision. The thing is, there are hypotheticals such as a lower promotion wanting to pay more than a higher promotion. But the thing is, can they really afford it? And more importantly, how often do they offer such contracts? Do lower promotions do that often? People seem to forget in a war, the hiring advantage almost always goes to the stronger promotion. That was true for WCW in the early 90's against the WWF, and WWF against WCW in the late 90's. Even then, how many people really jumped?
Antithesis Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 You aren't wrong, but neither am I. I merely forgot to point what you said: Money is important. But it's not the only thing. And for one thing in a war, where two promotions have equal or near-equal popularity, momentum, and money, it's not exactly a wise "business" decision. The thing is, there are hypotheticals such as a lower promotion wanting to pay more than a higher promotion. But the thing is, can they really afford it? And more importantly, how often do they offer such contracts? Do lower promotions do that often? People seem to forget in a war, the hiring advantage almost always goes to the stronger promotion. That was true for WCW in the early 90's against the WWF, and WWF against WCW in the late 90's. Even then, how many people really jumped? The war isn't the issue. Go to the editor and remove the war between the SWF and TCW. TCW still can't get anyone to negotiate. As to promotion size, and all, using real life examples ...it is true that is a factor. But in the mid 90's, out of people that jumped and those that didn't, many of them did negotiate with both companies (or in the case of some ECW wrestlers, they negotiated between three). Why would they at least negotiate? Because it caused the companies to increase their offers, meaning wrestlers could get the best deal possible. Real life wise, this is why I have a problem with the way it is now. Because in real life, most pro wrestlers want to get paid (other considerations also a factor) As it is now, until you take a promotion and reach some benchmark as decided by the developer, you can't even get to the negotiation screen to make an offer. Another thing not mentioned here. Who says you'll always want to actually sign that wrestler? Maybe I just want to build an offer up to Big Smack Scott so that Eisen has to spend that much extra to keep him. Let the SWF locker room explode as a result. Its sneaky, its underhanded, and it happens everyday in professional sports, not just pro wrestling. Given the unprecedented freedom Adam's allowed with user prefernces and the editor and the like, I am surprised Adam didn't offer a feature like this as well. That way, if you want to play a game where all the wrestlers want to do is work for the largest promotion in the world, you can play that game, and people like myself, who think that wrestlers are in it for the money, we can play that game too if we want.
jesterx7769 Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 It's near impossible to beat out SWF in the negotiations anyway. When I could actually bid to get Vengeance the owner would only let me give $55,000 and even when I added all the other things in that were possible he still brought up how SWF was giving him more money, so if you all really wanted that chance to negotiate and be shot down I'm sure Adam could include it but then you would all whine about that until he made it as easy to steal workers as it is to edit them. If you really want someone that bad just edit their contract down and then sign them, that is what I did in 08, youre all complaining that the #1 promotion in the world has too much power, thats what they get for being #1! Now go over take them and raid their roster and tell them to suck it!
Antithesis Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 It's near impossible to beat out SWF in the negotiations anyway. When I could actually bid to get Vengeance the owner would only let me give $55,000 and even when I added all the other things in that were possible he still brought up how SWF was giving him more money, so if you all really wanted that chance to negotiate and be shot down I'm sure Adam could include it but then you would all whine about that until he made it as easy to steal workers as it is to edit them. If you really want someone that bad just edit their contract down and then sign them, that is what I did in 08, youre all complaining that the #1 promotion in the world has too much power, thats what they get for being #1! Now go over take them and raid their roster and tell them to suck it! Why would you assume people would whine? The SWF can already steal TCW's talent, just TCW can't return the favor. Its ranked as the second largest promotion in the world. Not being able to even make them an offer is a flaw in the game. I'll give you a real life example. When Sting was coming up for contract renewal with WCW, he was also in talks with Vince, even when WCW was kicking WWF's ass, Sting still talked to him. During negotiations Vince made his final offer and Sting told him he'd have to hear back from WCW, and Vince told him to make his offer sound greater than it was, so Sting would get the best contract possible. After that, Sting gets his big money contract, limited number of televised dates per year, limited number of house shows, cut of merchandise etc etc etc. A lot of the top WCW guys did the same. It eventually helped contribute to the downfall of the company, because as revenue tightened up, that guarenteed money still had to be paid out, and if the Main EVenters worked over their contracted number of dates, they had to get X amount of bonus money. And of course, then the lower card guys start hearing rumors about how so and so is making all that money and not even having to show up but a certain amount of days, and what do you know, locker room morale starts to fall. Its not just about what you bid on vengeance. Its alo the reprecussions Eisen has to deal with now for making a bigger bid than you. Thats an aspect of the game that people who play TCW don't get to experience (because they can't even get SWF wrestlers to negotiate) unless, as you say, they tinker with the editor or spend copious amounts of time building up the company.
Gigas Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 It's near impossible to beat out SWF in the negotiations anyway. When I could actually bid to get Vengeance the owner would only let me give $55,000 and even when I added all the other things in that were possible he still brought up how SWF was giving him more money, so if you all really wanted that chance to negotiate and be shot down I'm sure Adam could include it but then you would all whine about that until he made it as easy to steal workers as it is to edit them. If you really want someone that bad just edit their contract down and then sign them, that is what I did in 08, youre all complaining that the #1 promotion in the world has too much power, thats what they get for being #1! Now go over take them and raid their roster and tell them to suck it! Why does it always have to be a Skull Debones? What if Robbie Retros contract is up, and I think hes future ME material in USPW? Hell, he's already an upper midcarder in USPW. He's a perfect fit. Hes also not going to cost $55,000. I could see SWF bowing out of the bidding once it hit 12-15k. The game is broke the way its set up now. A war with SWF is basically, Hey steal my guys while I sit with a thumb up my ass because TEW2010 wont let me sign your guys. Although apparently the at war thing doesnt even matter, which is even worse. Its broken.
bshankly Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 i've had a few(see other thread) and i think its great. I've been able to replace Eddie Peak with Christian Faith Steve Frehley so not doing too badly. I managed to push Peaks contract upto 125k a month with SWF. Got into a bidding war with (is it BHOGW) over Duane Stones as well but pulled out at about 20k a month. Faith and Frehley were not renewed by SWF so i still wasn't able to compete with them with there wrestlers that they wanted, but still it just means that i have to get closer to there pop and attack them from there. Think they will drop to cult in 10 as well as there only gettong C, C+ and B- shows at the moment. So when that happens i'll raid them completely.
Phantom Stranger Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 The game is broke the way its set up now. A war with SWF is basically, Hey steal my guys while I sit with a thumb up my ass because TEW2010 wont let me sign your guys. Although apparently the at war thing doesnt even matter, which is even worse. Its broken. Funnily enough, the things you're complaining about have been true for several iterations of the game, and not until 'bidding war' is added do these threads appear.
gazwefc83 Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 that is because we thought bidding war would solve this, plus iv seen threads like this for past versions of TEW another reason why i thought bidding war was added
Lt. Lucrativo Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 that is because we thought bidding war would solve this, plus iv seen threads like this for past versions of TEW another reason why i thought bidding war was added Exactly. When I read in the Developer's Journal that "Taken from WMMA2, TEW 2010 will feature bidding wars," I assumed that the feature would work more or less like it does in WMMA2--and I was really happy about it because I've always wished that prestige wasn't such a determining factor in TEW negotiations. Fighters in WMMA2 will always take negotiations from every company (up to three, anyway) that is interested in them as long as the company is large enough to be able to sign them. In that game, fighters don't refuse to negotiate with anyone other than the top company, so bidding wars over the top fighters are very common. It seems like in TEW2010, which has so many other factors for workers to consider when deciding what their best employment situation would be--company momentum, locker room morale, relationships with other workers on the roster, etc.--that eliminating that openness and flexibility in hiring is, in my opinion, unfortunate.
Antithesis Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Yeah, that didn't really occur to me until you mentioned it, but that is what I was kind of expecting as well. Hell, at the start of WMMA 2, playing as SIGMA, you still have a chance to outbid Alpha-1 on Helio, for example. And as time goes on and folks from the Alpha-1 roster come up for renewal, you can at least negotiate with them. Aside from that, I'd argue that it may be a bug in TEW 2010 if the wrestlers say that a promotional war is the reason they won't negotiate, when in fact its because of your promotion's prestige. Otherwise its misleading folks just playing the game.
Candyman Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Funnily enough, the things you're complaining about have been true for several iterations of the game, and not until 'bidding war' is added do these threads appear. Not to speak to anybody else, but it seems pretty obvious to me that people are complaining precisely because 'bidding war' was added: they're complaining that they can't get into a bidding war with SWF. Which would mean that what they're complaining about hasn't been true for ANY prior iterations of the game.
Ninja Turtle Posted January 31, 2010 Author Posted January 31, 2010 Not to speak to anybody else, but it seems pretty obvious to me that people are complaining precisely because 'bidding war' was added: they're complaining that they can't get into a bidding war with SWF. Which would mean that what they're complaining about hasn't been true for ANY prior iterations of the game. Exactly, which is when I heard that the "bidding war" would be added, I assumed it meant that promotions within a satisfying amount of prestige or popularity to one another can get into a heated negotiation with a worker. I am very disappointed that it appears to have the same stipulations as in previous games in terms of stealing talent. I'm not talking a Cult sized promotion taking on a Global in terms of negotiating, but promotions within one "size" of each other should be allowed to at least throw a number out there. For example, an International promotion should at least be able to offer something to a worker who is in negotiations for his current Global promotion. I'd like to be able to take TCW and offer an SWF worker a lucrative amount of money and creative control solely to steal talent. If some say it is unrealistic, I beg to differ. It's true that in most cases, star workers will tend to stay put - with rare exceptions (Hall and Nash in WWF). However, stealing of midcarders and veterans is very common, even now in regards to TNA. All I am saying, and most people here are saying, is that we'd at least like to try to steal talent. If I'm Eric Bischoff in a real world mod for WCW, I believe it to be very realistic for me to offer insane contracts that don't make much sense and seem like cheating - simply because that's what he did. I hope this is something that can be changed in TEW2010, otherwise it will be frustrating for me, because I love taking WCW back in the 90s but in previous games, and it appears again in this game, it's impossible to steal talent. I'd really like to hear Adam's take on this. Adam, if you're reading this, can you help clear some things up for us on this subject? Thanks!
Tempest Kane Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Dont know about the rest of this convo... But i got TCW to global #2 , A* Prestige + A Momentum by October 2010 ... and SWF is A* Prestige and B Momentum @ #1 ... so it isnt like you have to play forever to even the playing field... I havent tried to sign anyone yet... i assume they still "dont think its good for there careers" at this point, but even a little dint in SWF's prestige i assume will start giving me the upper hand... if thats the case than this isnt a big-a-deal as people make out. If not then yeah... we need to look into it, the current way its setup is likely more to do with maintaining a stable game world than anything, it dosnt lend its self well to the bidding-war based monday night wars mods people are going to want to play... but im still enjoying the game.
Adam Ryland Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 This was altered in yesterday's patch, you need to upgrade.
Gigas Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 This was altered in yesterday's patch, you need to upgrade. So awesome. I was hoping it was just an oversite/bug.
Ninja Turtle Posted February 1, 2010 Author Posted February 1, 2010 This was altered in yesterday's patch, you need to upgrade. Ok, thank you for responding. I did download the patch yesterday, but haven't gotten a chance to play it enough to run into a similar scenario. I am very happy that this wasn't a permanent fixture in the game!
nZane Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Well, I just tried and I'm no longer getting the won't negotiate due to the war message. Granted, I did get the "joining you wouldn't be a good career move" one, but I'm TCW and sitting at B+ Prestige versus the A* of SWF right now, so it isn't a shock. I would guess you need to be within a letter grade or something closer. But that means no Jack Bruce for me.
Gigas Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Well, I just tried and I'm no longer getting the won't negotiate due to the war message. Granted, I did get the "joining you wouldn't be a good career move" one, but I'm TCW and sitting at B+ Prestige versus the A* of SWF right now, so it isn't a shock. I would guess you need to be within a letter grade or something closer. But that means no Jack Bruce for me. I tried it with guys like Robbie Retro and got the same thing, so a company like TCW or USPW still cant sign any of SWFs guys, which makes the bidding wars and wars in general really really one sided. Still wish there was at least a chance to negotiate with these people. Especially the Robbie Retros of the world who are stuck in midcard hell. Pretty disappointed that the patch didnt do anything other than replace "wont sign because of the war" to "wont sign because its bad" but w/e.
CQI13 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 You could steal workers from another promotion, and when you're within striking distance steal workers from the other.
Ninja Turtle Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Well, in my WCW 1995 game, Hulk Hogan's (a big one) contract was running up. I went into a bidding war with WWF. My prestige was 90, WWF was 96. My US popularity, on average, was 79. WWF was 77. However, WWF was Global and I was International with WCW. I was able to keep Hogan, thankfully, through the bidding war. I offered him more money than WWF could, apparently. I haven't yet run into a scenario where the worker doesn't currently work for me, so we'll see if the case remains the same. I'd sure be interested to know if that scenario would have had the same result had Hogan been working for WWF instead of me.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.