The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[RingofHonorGuard]

Couture gets Toney down no problem. From there we'll see some hilarious grappling as a 46 year old man looks like Roger Gracie.

 

That Nog picture would be a thousand times better without the stupid motivational explaining the joke.

 

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly with you on the fact if Couture gets Toney down it's over. However, in his last few fights Couture has looked like absolute crap. His age has definitely caught up to him, and while he's not really at risk of losing to cans or C level fighters yet, it's a bit ridiculous to just completely cast Toney's chances aside.

 

There's this thing called a puncher's chance... And when you're a boxer who's known primarily for knock outs(and he's a legit boxer, not some chump making $5k a fight) it becomes more than just a puncher's chance.

 

Couture will not get Toney down with shooting. It's just not his strong suit, and never really has been. Toney clips Couture with a hook as he comes in to clinch and finishes him with an uppercut. Done deal.

[Daffanka]

There's loads of pitfalls for either guy but I just feel like there's more of them for Toney. Toney's boxing style isn't very suited for MMA where shoulder rolls don't work and close range boxing means falling into a messy clinch. Toney wasn't ever a KO monster either.

 

Couture's never been good at shooting but he's shooting on a washed up boxer who's never defended a takedown in his life. Randy could probably cover his head with his hands and still get Toney down.

 

It's an awful fight and I know it'll be on the main card. Save the freakshows for free TV cards UFC, thanks.

[RingofHonorGuard]

There's loads of pitfalls for either guy but I just feel like there's more of them for Toney. Toney's boxing style isn't very suited for MMA where shoulder rolls don't work and close range boxing means falling into a messy clinch. Toney wasn't ever a KO monster either.

 

Couture's never been good at shooting but he's shooting on a washed up boxer who's never defended a takedown in his life. Randy could probably cover his head with his hands and still get Toney down.

 

It's an awful fight and I know it'll be on the main card. Save the freakshows for free TV cards UFC, thanks.

 

But I like the fact that they aren't giving Toney the Kimbo treatment(circa EliteXC). Couture is a huge first fight for anyone. I think what it all boils down to is how Juanito preps Toney for MMA, and also, how much work has Toney put into MMA before talking to Dana. Toney has taken a lot of cranial damage, but I've seen a lot of boxers "talk the talk" about getting in the cage, and very few of them have actually done so. I'm just ready to see what a high level boxer does, "washed up" or not. And James Toney has 44 KO's, with the nickname "Lights Out". He may not be knocking guys out in his current age, but he was a fantastic boxer in his prime... and when you put these small MMA gloves on him... Man, I can't wait.

 

Freak show fight or not, this fight is going to convert a lot of boxing fans or at least get them to order the fight. I have a lot of friends who are into boxing, and James Toney/MMA has been all they're talking about recently.

[Dustin]

@RingofHonorGuard: Thanks for the laughs.

 

Randy Couture has been an elite wrestler for most of his life and will have no problems getting Toney down. He also has a lot of octagon and MMA experience in general with Toney having none and he is ten million times smarter than Toney. It all adds up to a very easy night for Couture IMO.

[brashleyholland]

Jung vs Garcia is one of the most entertaining fights I have ever seen. Talk about leaving it all in the cage. Brilliant.

 

I was having far too much fun to score it, but I was VERY surprised at the decision.

 

LOL, was it me, or did Rogan get caught on camera saying that he thought it was 'pretty obvious' that CSG should have got the W?

[Daffanka]

Thought that was obviously Korean Zombie's fight. Apparently Dana and Rogan agrees with me.

 

e: he'll probably get a big check and he's got a job for life though so it's all good

[RingofHonorGuard]

@RingofHonorGuard: Thanks for the laughs.

 

Randy Couture has been an elite wrestler for most of his life and will have no problems getting Toney down. He also has a lot of octagon and MMA experience in general with Toney having none and he is ten million times smarter than Toney. It all adds up to a very easy night for Couture IMO.

 

Hey, I get it. You're in the majority of taking the easy choice in Couture. I respect that, and certainly don't "laugh" at your prediction. It's a wise choice. But people still fail to take into consideration that Couture is older, his durability isn't there(evidenced by Nogueira knocking him down, I mean come on... Nogueira has technical boxing but how often do you see him knock a guy down?), and quite honestly I don't even know if Couture's heart is still in the cage. I'm starting to think he's just collecting paychecks at this point... That leaves him open for an upset, in my opinion. Toney is coming into this with -a lot- to prove. MMA vs. Boxing is a huge feud, especially for the boxing guys... So you know Toney, Juanito, and that entourage is working some major takedown defense, or at least some clinch seperation.

 

I don't think Couture is going to deal with Toney's power, that's it and that's all. Glad that's comical to you, I always aim to entertain.

 

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The judges were way the hell off in that early FOTY candidate. My dad, who could care less about MMA, was sitting there shadow boxing to the fight going "I HAVEN'T SEEN A FIGHT LIKE THIS IN FOREVER! WOW!" I could see how Garcia could get the nod from these ignorant MMA judges, but some of those ****ing combos the Zombie landed... Wow... It was straight out of Street Fighter or Tekken. If that dude starts doing some serious cable pulls and can maintain some muscle at 145, he's going to be a ****ing monster when he peaks.

------------------------

 

How many times are they going to show this stupid Kimbo Slice interview? And also, that slam Kimbo did on Alexander is still awesome... No matter how many times they show it. It's like he channeled the spirit of Scott Steiner for a few seconds and went old school WCW on his ass.

[brashleyholland]

Hey, I get it. You're in the majority of taking the easy choice in Couture. I respect that, and certainly don't "laugh" at your prediction. It's a wise choice. But people still fail to take into consideration that Couture is older, his durability isn't there(evidenced by Nogueira knocking him down, I mean come on... Nogueira has technical boxing but how often do you see him knock a guy down?), and quite honestly I don't even know if Couture's heart is still in the cage. I'm starting to think he's just collecting paychecks at this point... That leaves him open for an upset, in my opinion. Toney is coming into this with -a lot- to prove. MMA vs. Boxing is a huge feud, especially for the boxing guys... So you know Toney, Juanito, and that entourage is working some major takedown defense, or at least some clinch seperation.

 

 

I'd say that taking Couture over Toney is more sensible than easy. It doesn't matter if he's Floyd Mayweather, Pac Man, Sugar Ray, Tyson or Ali himself...Toney's not in a boxing match against Randy. Everything is different. You can't stand like a boxer, you can't move like a boxer and you can't punch like a boxer.

 

Randy may not be able to take a punch anymore, but he has a few things going for him. He's one of the best-prepared fighters in MMA. Toney isn't. From what I here he has absolutely no interest in learning takedown defence, submission defence etc. He actually believes that MMA fighters are chumps, that nobody will have their way with him and that he will KO anyone they put infront of him.

 

The other thing in Randy's favour is his attitude. He's mid-40's, has a couple of fights before he retires and wants to see out his contract. He's told lots of people that if he gets knocked out, he'll walk away from the sport - he was saying that before the Vera fight. He's too smart to put himself in any position where Toney can knock him out.

 

Only Randy knows what's going on inside his head, but the schools of thought are that either A) He genuinely wants to go out on a high note and finish his career with some good wins or B) He wants to ensure that he doesn't get knocked out so that he can complete every fight on the contract before laughing all the way to the bank. Either way, he's not putting himself in danger, and Toney has very, very few assets that are dangerous to Couture.

 

All Randy has to do is come out win a waist-high shot or an ankle pick and Toney won't be able to hit him sweetly. From their he'll be on his back or against the cage, and it's game over. If Toney was fighting an Arlovski or someone of that ilk who thinks they can box, then I'd be right with you...but not Couture.

[brashleyholland]

Ah, their showing the Brad Pickett fight! Good to see the lad getting the exposure he deserves.

 

Shocked at the result of the Brown/Gamburyan fight!

[Daffanka]

This card has been really good so far and we have the potentially two best fights coming up.

[RingofHonorGuard]

After this post I will make no further comments on the Toney/Couture fight until the fight actually gets signed on the dotted line and goes down as I'm actually starting to feel like I'm being flamed for -my- choice. I don't need to be essentially called ignorant for making an against-the-odds pick. Leaving you with this... If you guys think James Toney is stupid and you -buy- into what he says, he's already doing his job. James Toney made his career off of being an intelligent fighter that was able to beat his opponents before they ever made it to the ring. I'm in no way saying he will beat Couture mentally... I'm just saying Couture might come in underestimating Toney, and get caught.

 

Regardless... A James Toney vs. Randy Couture fight will outsell any other MMA fight card this year. And that's sad. That's what we should really be discussing, truth be told.

[RingofHonorGuard]

This card has been really good so far and we have the potentially two best fights coming up.

 

Yeah, it's a damn shame they tried to rip people off and charge $50 for this. This would have been a -great- way to "pay the fans back" as Dana promised for the 'Tragedy in Abu Dahbi'.

 

WEC = Free, come on. That's the way it should be.

 

Pulling for Benson to win this one...

[Daffanka]

Yeah, it's a damn shame they tried to rip people off and charge $50 for this.

 

How dare they charge for top class cards and have their world class fighters earn more money!

[brashleyholland]

After this post I will make no further comments on the Toney/Couture fight until the fight actually gets signed on the dotted line and goes down as I'm actually starting to feel like I'm being flamed for -my- choice. I don't need to be essentially called ignorant for making an against-the-odds pick. Leaving you with this... If you guys think James Toney is stupid and you -buy- into what he says, he's already doing his job. James Toney made his career off of being an intelligent fighter that was able to beat his opponents before they ever made it to the ring. I'm in no way saying he will beat Couture mentally... I'm just saying Couture might come in underestimating Toney, and get caught.

 

Appologies if you thought I was flaming you, didn't mean to at all. Got a house full of idiots watching WEC and eating/drinking me out of house and home, so I only had one eye on what I was typing.

 

What I do know, is that Toney really, seriously hasn't been taking his training with Juanito's crew seriously. This is from guys who were brought in for wrestling and grappling sessions, made to sign confidentiality agreements stating that they wouldn't discuss his training, then sent away after less than an hour because Toney didn't like being taken down/tapped out. I know of two separate guys this has happened to, neither of whom we're paid by Ibarra.

 

 

 

Regardless... A James Toney vs. Randy Couture fight will outsell any other MMA fight card this year. And that's sad. That's what we should really be discussing, truth be told.

 

They're taking about having it as the co-main event (or possibly even the third fight behind Maynard/Florian) in Boston on the Edgar/Penn 2 card. It'll do a massive, massive gate if thats the case. Penn has been a good draw on PPV of late, will be interesting to see if Toney adds much to the numbers. Read alot of PPV numbers recently indicating that those who purchase boxing PPVs and MMA PPVs are still two very different groups. I don't see Toney having the broad appeal of a Brock Lesnar, who brought tons of WWE fans with him.

 

With those fights, I'd bank on a 600k buyrate; pretty good, going off current figures.

[brashleyholland]

Here's a fun game. Count how many times you see the WEC logo or hear the name WEC mentioned during this broadcast. I'm thinking you won't need to take your socks off.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Here's a fun game. Count how many times you see the WEC logo or hear the name WEC mentioned during this broadcast. I'm thinking you won't need to take your socks off.

 

Yeah it almost feels like this show should be called UFC-Lite or something. The only time I've really seen or heard WEC mentioned was... uh.. when they showed the WEC title around Benson's waist.

[brashleyholland]

Yeah it almost feels like this show should be called UFC-Lite or something. The only time I've really seen or heard WEC mentioned was... uh.. when they showed the WEC title around Benson's waist.

 

They've even taken it off the gloves.

[RingofHonorGuard]

They've even taken it off the gloves.

 

Think the UFC is considering merging 135/145 into their ranks... Mike Goldberg said earlier that tonight is about showcasing the best 135 and 145 fighters in the world... I found that odd at the time as the lightweight title was on the line. Then I started noticing all the missing WEC logos in most cases.

 

I think they're holding off on merging until they see how the PPV does. Also, how the hell are the fans booing Jose Aldo... even if he isn't hometown? I mean seriously... The dude is like Anderson Silva when he actually felt like fighting.

[ColtCabana]

I enjoyed that PPV for the most part (mainly because it was free on Setanta, unlike the UFC). It was also interesting to hear the talk of a potential 120lbs division.

[Daffanka]

Aldo is an amazing fighter.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Final Thoughts About Last Night:

 

#1: Aldo is going to be absolutely scary when he gets another couple of years under his belt. I didn't really like the coasting at the end, but also found myself saying "Can't really blame him." This is a sport, at the end of the day, and there's money involved. You see sports teams 'using the clock' all the time to control the game. At least he waited until he was way ahead to do it and the fight had already been decided.He absolutely demolished Faber in ways that even I didn't expect. I thought we were going to get to see another leg kick TKO, which would have been epic.

 

#2: I was a fan of the Korean Zombie before, and after last night, he's jumped into my top ten fighters to watch. Dude got robbed big time, and everyone has pretty much said so. Those were some insanely technical combos that he was landing on Garcia when they got inside on some exchanges.

 

#3: Merge the 155 division, UFC. But keep the 145/135 division as the WEC. And bring in some Flyweights.

 

#4: Wonder what Dana thought when he saw Mike Brown get his head knocked off by Manvel "Genocide" Gamburyan. In addition, I think it's funny that people are putting so much stock in Manny's post-fight. He did his job though... He beat a top player in WEC, and got people talking about him further with the post fight... Aldo should finish him quick... THEN maybe we can see Aldo try to KILL a Zombie for 5 rounds.

[RingofHonorGuard]

For those wondering why there were no WEC logos last night...

 

http://mmajunkie.com/news/18879/white-reveals-that-versus-spike-tv-agreements-reason-for-brandless-fight-card.mma

[Dustin]

Merge the 155 division, UFC. But keep the 145/135 division as the WEC. And bring in some Flyweights.

 

I think it will look like this when all the dust settles

 

UFC:

 

HW

205

185

170

155

 

WEC:

 

145

135

125

115

105

 

And we will have some seriously awesome fights.

[Daffanka]

Pretty sure the UFC have said that they're eventually bringing in all the divisions under their banner, presumably with a TUF season or something to whip up interest.

 

Honestly anything leading to UFC events not being headlined by Couture - Coleman or any variation thereof is a good thing.

 

The lighter divisions are filled with quality fighters and since most of the divisions are so unstable it really is a very exciting period to be watching WEC. Scott Jorgensen next BW champ!

[MrCanada]

If it was up to me, I'd split UFC & WEC differently then most people are talking about. Drop Lightweights down to WEC, it would give WEC some "names" and attract interest, and create superfights (Jose Aldo jump weight to fight BJ Penn!), and then in the UFC you add the much needed Cruiserweight division, and modify the Middlerweight & Light Heavyweight divisions to make it more even. Right now someone like Silva can cut to 185, but then get back up to 200. Cutting the extra 5 would make a HUGE differance. And in that case he could fight bigger guys who can also cut to 195. It would make Middleweight a more even division, allowing some Welter's to jump (Thiago, looking at you!) and guys like Maia to do well without big guys like Silva. Then of course the Cruiserweight division creates a huge division for a lot of guys. Most top Light Heavyweights would be up there, and guys who are getting overshadowed or not given the chance (Jon Jones) can dominate the new Light Heavyweight division.

 

Heavyweight (221-265)

Cruiserweight (196-220)

Light Heavyweight (181-195)

Middleweight (171-180)

Welterweight (156-170)

 

WEC:

Lightweight (146-155)

Featherweight (136-145)

Bantamweight (126-135)

Flyweight (116-125)

Strawweight (100-115)

 

or even do right away with the Flyweight & Strawweight idea, and bring in a women's division (or two) in WEC.