ampulator Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I think if jones beats machida and is healthy enough we will se jones and Evans coach the first season of tuf on fox. Not to gripe, but I don't think Jones is ready coach someone yet. It's not that I don't think he's capable, but rather... he's still mentally growing. He seems really mentally tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 The way I've read it, GSP is probably going to be able to fight in late November and they'll do GSP/Condit then. If Diaz wins emphatically, I presume they'll do GSP/Diaz as early as possible so there is a chance of GSP fighting twice in 2012 and boost the PPV numbers. Koscheck/Diaz would be a terrible fight for Diaz so I would endorse it happening as soon as possible. On the press call he said he's looking at Superbowl weekend. He'll be ready to go back to regular training by the end of November, but wont be ready to fight until the end of Jan/early Feb. GSP vs Condit and Diaz/Penn vs Koscheck makes sense for a Superbowl card, and means they don't have to rush the Machida/Jones winner back. Presumably, the winners of GSP/Condit and Diaz/Penn face off next year. Would the losers then face off? If Penn loses he'll probably call it quits. If Condit vs Diaz would be a good fight though, but I can't see Penn beating Diaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Not to gripe, but I don't think Jones is ready coach someone yet. It's not that I don't think he's capable, but rather... he's still mentally growing. He seems really mentally tired. Nobody is picking TUF coaches based on their coaching ability though. It's personality first and foremost, and Jones has that in spades. Coaching against a perfect foil in Rashad would do wonders for his profile. Remember, TUF is 'live' as of next year, so filming will actually take 10-12 weeks, with the coaches moving their own camps to Vegas to run simultaneously with the show. If the finale is at the end of April/early May, Jones will have a nice long break between the Machida fight and the coaches fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Penn loses he'll probably call it quits. If Condit vs Diaz would be a good fight though, but I can't see Penn beating Diaz. Really? I see BJ having an advantage pretty much everywhere except cardio, plus he can just take him down if he wants. My prediction is Penn via stoppage due to cuts or technical submission, something that leaves Nick with some kind of moral high ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Nobody is picking TUF coaches based on their coaching ability though. It's personality first and foremost, and Jones has that in spades. Coaching against a perfect foil in Rashad would do wonders for his profile. Remember, TUF is 'live' as of next year, so filming will actually take 10-12 weeks, with the coaches moving their own camps to Vegas to run simultaneously with the show. If the finale is at the end of April/early May, Jones will have a nice long break between the Machida fight and the coaches fight. I know that... I'm just... a bit concerned, that's all. Really? I see BJ having an advantage pretty much everywhere except cardio, plus he can just take him down if he wants. My prediction is Penn via stoppage due to cuts or technical submission, something that leaves Nick with some kind of moral high ground I would say they are near equal, with Penn having a slight edge in skills, and a superior chin, but terrible cardio at 170. And taking down Diaz... what would that serve? He can beat Diaz standing, he takes it to the ground, he makes the game equal. Whatever you say about Diaz, he is Gracie Jiu Jitsu that's decent off his back. If Penn can't finish within the first two rounds, he's going to gas after that, and lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 And taking down Diaz... what would that serve? He can beat Diaz standing, he takes it to the ground, he makes the game equal. Whatever you say about Diaz, he is Gracie Jiu Jitsu that's decent off his back. He'll be in a dominant position as long as he wants and won't get submitted. I don't think it'd make the game equal, even if Diaz is threatening, if it goes to the judges then it being on the ground like that favours BJ a lot more than a stand up battle even if he is winning. With all of this said, I kind of just want to stop thinking about this fight and wait for it to be awesome xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldStingberg Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It's hard to submit anyone nowadays off your back, but doing it to someone as good as Penn? If Penn took Diaz down, it'd be 100 times easier for Penn to cruise on points than it would be for Diaz to catch him with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Did he tap or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 It's hard to submit anyone nowadays off your back, but doing it to someone as good as Penn? If Penn took Diaz down, it'd be 100 times easier for Penn to cruise on points than it would be for Diaz to catch him with something. He'll be in a dominant position as long as he wants and won't get submitted. I don't think it'd make the game equal, even if Diaz is threatening, if it goes to the judges then it being on the ground like that favours BJ a lot more than a stand up battle even if he is winning. With all of this said, I kind of just want to stop thinking about this fight and wait for it to be awesome xD Fair point-but what I should have said was, it would have made it more equal, and not have said, "it would have it equal". Like I said before, Penn is the better fighter, but not by much as we think he is. There's a decent chance he will lose if he doesn't finish with the first two rounds, especially because it seems he gasses out more at 170. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest codey Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Did he tap or not? The way I've always seen it, you don't even want to get into a situation where people are thinking "Did he tap? Did he not?" That's just an invitation for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The way I've always seen it, you don't even want to get into a situation where people are thinking "Did he tap? Did he not?" That's just an invitation for trouble. He's the definition of a sore winner, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 He's the definition of a sore winner, that's for sure. I like at the end when the commission guy comes in "you're about to be a suspended fighter", then team bisping tries to make team mayhem started everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Anything yet on Cain/JDS airing in the UK? Also, how big a meltdown will the MMA forums have if Brock Lesnar grounds and pounds Overeem into the dust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJoel Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Anything yet on Cain/JDS airing in the UK? Also, how big a meltdown will the MMA forums have if Brock Lesnar grounds and pounds Overeem into the dust? I actually hope that happens. If Lesnar destroys Overeem, I will laugh...and party hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I want it to happen if for no other reason than to send the likes of Sherdog into a complete meltdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I want it to happen if for no other reason than to send the likes of Sherdog into a complete meltdown. This will be ultimately a test of Overeem's takedown defense versus Brock's striking defense... and if Brock can get it to the ground, Overeem is pretty much finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Brock has always got his opponents to the ground. He hasn't always kept them there but he has always got them there. The one thing Overeem needs to have done to maximize has chance to win this is to work on takedown defence for the last six months. It's no guarantee he'll win but will give him the best chance to, because his only real chance of winning is keeping it standing. Overeem has a good guillotine and Brock can be submitted, but I don't fancy of chances of being able to get anything on Brock once he's on his back. I think this fight either ends within a minute by Overeem battering Brock standing up, or it ends in just over three with Brock TKO'ing Overeem with ground and pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I want it to happen if for no other reason than to send the likes of Sherdog into a complete meltdown. Agreed. I am a fan of both fighters, more so of Lesnar. But man would I enjoy the craziness of the boards of Lesnar beats Reem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Brock has always got his opponents to the ground. He hasn't always kept them there but he has always got them there. The one thing Overeem needs to have done to maximize has chance to win this is to work on takedown defence for the last six months. It's no guarantee he'll win but will give him the best chance to, because his only real chance of winning is keeping it standing. Overeem has a good guillotine and Brock can be submitted, but I don't fancy of chances of being able to get anything on Brock once he's on his back. I think this fight either ends within a minute by Overeem battering Brock standing up, or it ends in just over three with Brock TKO'ing Overeem with ground and pound. I don't recall him getting CArwin down, though it could be faulty memory. Let me check on that. Otherwise, yes, he's gotten everyone else down, I don't dispute that. That's not my point, though. The question is, will Overeem be able to prevent the takedown? Unlikely. But he hasn't been taken down in a while... and I agree that Brock will win, I just think you are too certain of Brock's chances. That being said, if gets past Brock, who will he face? I think he has a chance against Mir, Nelson, but he will probably lose to Carwin, Velasquez, or Dos Santos, if he gets that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I don't recall him getting CArwin down, though it could be faulty memory. Let me check on that. Otherwise, yes, he's gotten everyone else down, I don't dispute that. That's not my point, though. The question is, will Overeem be able to prevent the takedown? Unlikely. But he hasn't been taken down in a while... and I agree that Brock will win, I just think you are too certain of Brock's chances. That being said, if gets past Brock, who will he face? I think he has a chance against Mir, Nelson, but he will probably lose to Carwin, Velasquez, or Dos Santos, if he gets that far. Lesnar got carwin down in round 2, but not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Lesnar got carwin down in round 2, but not 1 Yeah, that's right. But to be fair, Carwin gassed out at Round 2 for trying to be at Lesnar's weight. He gorillla-handled Lesnar in the first round, but after that... well, that was history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capelli King Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 if Brock can get it to the ground, Overeem is pretty much finished. Not necessarily...............some people forget that Overeem has more submission wins than he does KOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedsRule Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Not necessarily...............some people forget that Overeem has more submission wins than he does KOs. Sorry I don't put stock in the majority of his sub wins over cans. Brock would pound his face in on the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Sorry I don't put stock in the majority of his sub wins over cans. Brock would pound his face in on the ground That's a fair point, but then again, the Heavyweight division is not like other divisions. There's huge weight difference between the minimum and maximum weight, incredibly varying amount of height, with the majority of the better fights between 245 to 255. On top of that, fighters are have tons of holes in their game, whereas, in other divisions, much more well-rounded, and much less holes defensively. But I do think Brock will take Overeem down, keep him, and win via GNP for a TKO... but it's Overeem has a chance to KO or TKO Brock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Brock/Reem is definitely not going to be a surprise from a strategic standpoint. Reem should hope to stand and trade with Lesnar and Brock should be looking for relentless takedowns. I thought Reem looked less-than-stellar against Werdum. If that's the Reem that shows up, Brock will be able to implement his strategy and should win. Reem's double-tough though and it wont come easy. Reem is probably the best striker Lesnar's ever faced (maybe the best HW striker in MMA? I dunno... he won K-1 WGP so he's gotta be one of them) and a very experienced MMA fighter so it really can go either way. I'm a brock fan and want him to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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