The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

http://www.mmanews.com/news/87929

 

Mark Coleman vs Ken Shamrock rumored for IFC: Australia

 

I don't know if that's extremely stupid (in a two men in their later forties fighting way) or genius (in a two recognizable names anchoring the show way.)

 

Either way it's going to be great in some way.

 

I don't have a problem with guys like Ken and Mark fighting, as long as they are fighting each other and not prospects or ranked fighters who will end up hurting them. Lets face it, nobody is going to gain anything at this point from beating a Kerr, Taktarov, Frye, Shamrock, Coleman, Abbott, etc...but as long as it's medically safe, who are we to say that they shouldn't compete against guys of a similar age?

 

As far as the promoter goes, it's a smart move. Barnett has never really been a massive draw outside of Japan, and the country as a whole has been largely starved of top-flight MMA. Shamrock and Coleman might not exactly be the cream of the crop, but they're two of the big names that most MMA fans of a certain age (read: those with the money to buy tickets and travel across the country to attend the event) associate with the sport from their days in the UFC and Pride.

 

I'm not a fan of so-called 'freakshows' per-se, but I'd go and see this if it was a little closer. Shamrock-Coleman was a dream match when I started following the UFC. So what if it wont be a great fight, it'll be fun to see those guys go at it and it'll probably end nice and quick.

 

Winner gets Tank

[brashleyholland]

Unless Scott Coker is stupid. Is Scott Coker stupid?

 

 

I don't think he's stupid...but I do seriously question his ability to run a promotion like Strikeforce as it currently needs to be run.

 

The thing is, Coker has been one of the most influential promoters in the history of American kickboxing since I can't remember when. He got American and North/South American-based guys into K-1 and was basically their international talent scout (outside of Europe and Asia) for the best part of a decade. But here's the difference...in all his years of kickboxing, he's been a promoter where the talent is secondary to the sport. When he was promoting the US K-1 shows, most of the people in the room didn't know who any of the fighters were (and I speak from experience on that one). Of just as much importance is the fact that he never had to worry about selling his shows outside of putting asses in seats in the arena. He's never had to sell PPV's, TV shows etc, just a few thousand tickets...and he was great at it.

 

Even when he made the switch to MMA, he did it well. He used guys like Daniel Puder and Cung Le, guys who had a following in the local area. He put on main events like Frank Shamrock vs Cesar Gracie/Phil Barroni - grudge matches that people in Cali wanted to see - and he broke attendance records.

 

What he cannot seem to manage though is dealing with guys who have more leverage than he does. He's in a position where he cannot afford to lose a Nick Diaz or a Gil Menendez. If Nate Diaz had entered the Octagon and soccer kicked someone after a fight in the UFC, he'd be looking elsewhere for employment on the following Monday. If Nick Diaz had to be pulled off a card because of his smoking habits just days before the event, he'd have plenty of time to smoke his career away after Dana cut him (see Karo Parisyan).

 

To run a promotion on a national level, you need stars. You also need to be able to control them, to the point that they know not to step out of line. Guys like Diaz, guys who are champions, from a camp full of your top-shelf fighters, they know that they have pull. If you can't keep them in check, they'll take advantage.

 

 

I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that post Strikeforce: Nashville, Cesar Gracie was telling people at the Team Gracie afterparty that Strikeforce wouldn't dare fire Diaz because if they did, he'd take his entire camp to the UFC. Whether that's truth or Chinese Whispers doesn't matter, the point stands.

 

Coker needs to take a hard line for the good of his company and until he does, things like this will keep happening. Unfortunately, he's made a deal with the Devil in CBS...he can't take a hard line on his core of fighters because if he does, he'll lose them. The promoter should always be in control and Coker is far, far from it.

[brashleyholland]

**OFFICIALLY GUTTED** Nogueira vs Griffin is likely off UFC 114 later this month. I was really, really looking forward to that fight for some reason

 

It's looking like either Thiago Silva or Ryan Bader to replace him. Of the two I'd love to see Silva take the spot...that'd be a really exciting fight.

 

That said, I think Bader would have a really good chance of beating Nog.

[Daffanka]

^^ Oh come on I was just writing that! ^^

 

I don't have a problem with guys like Ken and Mark fighting, as long as they are fighting each other and not prospects or ranked fighters who will end up hurting them. Lets face it, nobody is going to gain anything at this point from beating a Kerr, Taktarov, Frye, Shamrock, Coleman, Abbott, etc...but as long as it's medically safe, who are we to say that they shouldn't compete against guys of a similar age?

 

My problem with it is the comments Dana made about how it's not safe for Coleman to fight. It might've been regular old Dana bull but I wouldn't want to see the paragon of Team Hammerhouse seriously hurt in a cage.

 

Also I guess Forrest is out of his fight with lil' Nog which sucks because that would've been a great step towards title contention when Forrest got blasted by a left.

 

Who else is there? Thiago Silva? Jon Jones? Both guys would get styled on but I don't really see any other LHWs with co-main name value.

 

e: Bader... argh. Damn these wrestlers ruining my hopes and dreams. He could definitely decision Nog and that would make me sad.

[brashleyholland]

Looks like Fedor vs Werdum is a go-go for Strikeforce/M-1 in June.

 

Not sure if this is good or bad news in terms of their future with CBS.

 

It'd be really bad news for their relationship if CBS had outright said no to a card with Fedor on it. My other (slightly more tinfoil hat) theory is that CBS want nothing to do with M-1. There is a very good reason why M-1 cannot get a licence to promote fights in sanctioned states within the US...its the same reason that corporate America wants nothing to do with mysterious Russian companies.

 

The good news is that it sets up a Fedor vs Overeem/Rogers 2 for a late October/early November CBS card, if they are still on board. That would fit with Fedor's desire to fight Josh Barnett/Ishii on NYE in Japan, as well as Overeem's participation in the WGP final 16.

 

As far as the fight goes...there are a number of people who I'd say have a chance of beating Fedor...Werdum is not one of them. He's getting folded early.

[brashleyholland]

 

 

 

My problem with it is the comments Dana made about how it's not safe for Coleman to fight. It might've been regular old Dana bull but I wouldn't want to see the paragon of Team Hammerhouse seriously hurt in a cage.

 

I think it was a case of him speaking in relative terms. There aren't many guys in the UFC's 205lb division that wouldn't do Coleman some harm...even the guys people consider to be 'cans' or gatekeepers (Vera, Jardine etc)..you'd still put money on them putting a beating on Coleman based on the fact that they're younger, fitter and healthier alone.

 

But what can a Ken Shamrock really do to hurt him at this point? Or a Kimo, or a Taktarov? If he gets put to sleep by Ken, then yeah, maybe it's not prudent for him to be in there anymore. I agree with Dana that it's not healthy for him to be fighting anyone that the UFC has under contract. But a trip around the senior circuit shouldn't be too much of a risk when the hardest hitter he can potentially face is Tank Abbott

 

 

 

Also I guess Forrest is out of his fight with lil' Nog which sucks because that would've been a great step towards title contention when Forrest got blasted by a left.

 

Who else is there? Thiago Silva? Jon Jones? Both guys would get styled on but I don't really see any other LHWs with co-main name value.

 

e: Bader... argh. Damn these wrestlers ruining my hopes and dreams. He could definitely decision Nog and that would make me sad.

 

In terms of finding a guy with name value, I think they're safe on that front. The Rampage + Rashad factor, plus the return of 'Prelims Live' on Spike should take care of PPV sales. It'd be a shame if they dragged someone completely random like Sosznyski, Jardine or Hamill in though.

 

I really hope Thiago gets the nod for the sake of the fight. I think those two would make for a wild one. For selfish reasons, I think that Silva is the guy that Nogueira has the best chance of beating, out of the three names mentioned. Anything that gets him closer to a rematch with Shogun (one of my three favourite MMA fights of all time) is good in my books.

[Daffanka]

As far as the fight goes...there are a number of people who I'd say have a chance of beating Fedor...Werdum is not one of them. He's getting folded early.

 

I think he'll last longer than Sylvia but shorter than Rogers. Wonder if there's any over/under bets for how long Werdum lasts?

 

I think it was a case of him speaking in relative terms. There aren't many guys in the UFC's 205lb division that wouldn't do Coleman some harm...even the guys people consider to be 'cans' or gatekeepers (Vera, Jardine etc)..you'd still put money on them putting a beating on Coleman based on the fact that they're younger, fitter and healthier alone.

 

But what can a Ken Shamrock really do to hurt him at this point? Or a Kimo, or a Taktarov? If he gets put to sleep by Ken, then yeah, maybe it's not prudent for him to be in there anymore. I agree with Dana that it's not healthy for him to be fighting anyone that the UFC has under contract. But a trip around the senior circuit shouldn't be too much of a risk when the hardest hitter he can potentially face is Tank Abbott

 

Yeah I hope so. Maybe they'll allow headbutts for some real old school factor.

 

There's some far fetched irony here about an MMA event called Impact using guys ten years past their prime. Maybe TNA is looking to expand into an MMA market?

 

In terms of finding a guy with name value, I think they're safe on that front. The Rampage + Rashad factor, plus the return of 'Prelims Live' on Spike should take care of PPV sales. It'd be a shame if they dragged someone completely random like Sosznyski, Jardine or Hamill in though.

 

All three of those guys are tied up so I think we're looking at Silva - Nog.

 

I really hope Thiago gets the nod for the sake of the fight. I think those two would make for a wild one. For selfish reasons, I think that Silva is the guy that Nogueira has the best chance of beating, out of the three names mentioned. Anything that gets him closer to a rematch with Shogun (one of my three favourite MMA fights of all time) is good in my books.

 

With you there, the thought of Shogun - Nogueira 2 for the LHW belt in a cage is just fantastic. Other than Nog - Barnett 1 their first fight is probably my favorite fight of all time.

 

Well, the thought of Machida - Nog for the title makes me almost as excited.

 

If there's any lurkers out there who didn't watch it then enjoy because this is the kind of fight that people remember when they say they're sad Pride is gone.

 

That said I think Nog would beat Jones more handily than Silva, at least if Jones decides to give away an armbar the way he did with Vera.

[brashleyholland]

I think he'll last longer than Sylvia but shorter than Rogers. Wonder if there's any over/under bets for how long Werdum lasts?

 

That's pretty much how I see it. I'm thinking sometime in the third minute.

 

 

 

All three of those guys are tied up so I think we're looking at Silva - Nog.

 

 

It'd be a shame if they dragged someone completely random like Sosznyski, Jardine or Hamill in though.

 

 

 

...or Jason Brilz...very little upside to Brilz vs Nogueira if you ask me...it's a disaster waiting to happen. Nog gains nothing from beating him.

[brashleyholland]

Money where your mouth is time...who have people got for 113?

 

My picks are here for the prelims and main card respectively:

 

http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2010/05/03/ufc-113-machida-vs-shogun-ii-pre-event-preview-and-predictions-preliminary-card/

 

 

http://www.mmabay.co.uk/2010/05/04/ufc-113-machida-vs-shogun-ii-pre-event-preview-and-predictions-main-card/

 

I went for:

 

Machida - decision

Koscheck - Submission, 2nd round (as much as I hate to say it, unless Kos stands with him, Daley's in trouble)

Mitrione - (T)KO, 1st round

Stout - decision

Belcher - (T)KO, 2nd round

Lawlor - (T)KO, 2nd round

Davis - (T)KO, 1st round

Hendricks - (T)KO, 2nd round

Hague - (T)KO, 1st round

Yoshida - submission, 2nd round

MacDonald - submission, 3rd round.

[Daffanka]

Machida by decision. I think he'll be able to ragdoll Shogun in the clinch and take some decisive rounds with GnP from the top while Shogun will be stuck with largely the same strategy because I honestly can't see a way for him to have a better fight than he did. Shogun might threaten Machida with sweeps or submissions a few times but I'm a firm believer in Machida's grappling chops and I think he'll take a decisive decision.

 

Daley by KO. I really do believe Koscheck hasn't learned anything from his fight with Thiago. If he decides to rassle then Daley is screwed though. Honestly I'm largely picking this because the idea that one of the best fighters on the planet is fighting Englishmen back to back is really funny.

 

Mitrione by KO. We know Mitrione hits hard. We know Kimbo has a bad chin. This is either going to be a two minute brawl or a two minute brawl and thirteen minutes of gassed arm punches.

 

Jeremy Stephens by TKO. I can't stand Sam Stout for some reason even though he's the logical pick.

 

Cote by TKO. I'm gonna make mad fake bux off Cote opening as an underdog.

 

Undercards are pretty much in line with yours. Davis, Lawlor, Hendricks, Yoshida, MacDonald, MEXICUTIONER.

 

Picking with your heart > picking with your head.

 

Can't wait for Machida - Shogun 2, the rest of the card doesn't excite me at all.

[Stennick]

I didn't see this posted so if its already up somewhere forgive me.

 

 

The UFC has issued the following statement confirming that UFC Heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar will make his return to the octagon this summer against #1 contender Shane Carwin:

 

Brock is back! Lesnar to defend belt against Carwin at UFC 116

 

SATURDAY, JULY 3, 2010 - Live from the MGM Grand Garden Arena – Tickets on Sale Thursday, May 13, at 10am PT

 

Las Vegas, NV (USA) – One day before America watches fireworks to celebrate their independence, the biggest heavyweight title fight ever will go off in Las Vegas. Ultimate Fighting championship® heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar returns to defend his heavyweight championship against interim title holder Shane Carwin as Bud Light Presents UFC® 116: LESNAR vs CARWIN, live from the MGM Grand Garden Arena on Saturday, July 3.

 

“When people wonder why the heavyweights capture the imagination of all fight fans, it’s because of guys like Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin,” said UFC President Dana White. “Not only are they great athletes and former national wrestling champions, but they both have the ability to end a fight with one punch. This is one of those fights that you won’t be able to turn away from because it can be over in a split second, and when it’s over, only one will walk away as the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion of the world.”

[brashleyholland]

One from the sad, but not unexpected file: Paulo Filho has pulled out of his bout with fringe top-10 middleweight Hector Lombard.

 

Before you think the worst though (which is what I did), it may not be his fault...apparently Bellator, or a combination of Bellator and his management, didn't get the correct paperwork filed in time for him to obtain his visa. If that's the case, then it's unfortunate. He's had a lot of issues of late and this could have been a big stage for him to prove that he can still compete. If it's called off though no fault of his own...well, that sucks.

 

Still, there have been whisperings that his painkiller addiction is still troubling him and affecting his training...so who knows.

 

In other news...

 

Mamed Khalidov (one of my picks as a break out fighter last year) only managed a draw against Ryuta Sakurai. Not good...he didn't look great in the second Santiago fight, and while he's retained his title with the draw, it doesn't bode well for his chances of getting picked up by the UFC or Strikeforce.

 

On the same show (KSW 13 in Poland), Marius Pudzianowski (the strongman who is fighting Tim Sylvia soon) could only manage a draw in a sloppy brawl with Yusuke Kawaguchi - a small, fat HW from Japan without a decent win on his record.

 

The big fella looked horrible so I'm told...he was sucking air after a few minutes and was winging punches with his chin up almost instantly. Tim Sylvia isn't exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to modern heavyweights, but I'd put money on him icing this roid monkey in the early going.

[Daffanka]

I couldn't get a working stream of KSW but I'm told the Pudz fight was hilariously bad. I don't know why people were so excited about him. Just because you're strong doesn't mean you know how to win a fight. Even someone like Ray Mercer is better than Pudz because he has a theoretical way to win an MMA fight.

 

I'm probably one of the biggest Tim haters but I think he's going to get a comfortable TKO victory after he survives the first minute of wild haymakers.

 

e: Filho - Lombard being called off makes me sad though.

[brashleyholland]

 

e: Filho - Lombard being called off makes me sad though.

 

Something weird is going on with this. Bellator's CEO is saying that as far as he knows, Filho is turning up at the airport on Monday as scheduled. So either their has been some kind of mix-up somewhere, or Filho has lost it again and is attempting to misdirect the blame.

 

Either way, he's becoming a massive liability for promoters to book...even the mighty Ed Soares is going to struggle to find him work soon...

[Daffanka]

I'm almost tempted to back down on my Mitrione - Kimbo prediction and go for Kimbo by TKO/decision because I think Kimbo's gonna try and wrassle a bit. I stand by the first round TKO but it wouldn't be amazing to me if Kimbo found some success on the ground because upon rewatching it Mitrione looked awful when trying to defend Jones' takedowns and Kimbo's got some very good training partners at ATT.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Shogun seems dangerously confident, bordering on overconfident. I'm on the fence with the first fight, I think either guy could have won it. I think this time Machida is going to absolutely wreck Shogun. What can Shogun do that he didn't do last time? He's still stuck in this "MUAY THAI > KARATE". That's fantastic, and MAY even be true... However, Machida has the element of the fact that he is unpredictable. Up until Shogun he pretty much entered every fight, got on the bicycle(as in this fight is so easy it's like riding a bike, not that he ran), and did his job. Shogun exploited some holes in Machida's game, yes, but the guy also had a broken hand.

 

Either way, this fight should be an explosion. Shogun is going to come out even more aggressive, which means he's going to get hit -a lot- more. I can't wait to see how Shogun deals with the pressure.

[Daffanka]

You are fighting in the main card in the biggest MMA organization in the world. You do not have a gas tank. Do you:

 

a) Gas

b)

 

e: wow this feels almost surreal

[xspudx]

To summon up all the Joe Rogan I have in me...

 

"Wow."

[SeanMcFly]

Just a Spoiler in case anyone didn't watch the event, or hasn't heard this news...

 

SPOILER ALERT, DO NOT HIGHLITE POST!

 

You've been Warned

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paul Daley, following his behaviour after the Koscheck fight, has been released by the UFC, and will not under any condition be re-admitted. Source - Dana White/MMALive

[Zoloftjunkie]

OMG. The title of that should of been UFC 113 JUSTICE!!!!

 

Not only did Shogun utterly destroy the most boring lhw but that piece of trash daley got owned and THROWN OUT of the UFC. Kos showed us all what we knew in that daley was a one trick pony.To bad the next Ultimate fighter show and fight between GSP and Kos is going to be predictable. Pure class from GSP, loud mouth bs from Kos, then GSP will make Kos look like an even bigger fool in the cage. Man I still can't believe he sucker punched him after the fight. You know your a waste of air when you make Kos seem like a classy guy.

[LoNdOn]

I don't agree with what Daley did at all, but if he was going to do it to someone I'm glad he chose Koscheck. God I hate that troll haired piece of trash. Next time Koscheck fakes getting hit in the head with an illegal knee his opponent should be able to stamp on his bollocks. I just hope GSP takes one of Josh's limbs home with him after their rematch.

 

P.S I dislike Koscheck

[Daffanka]

Koscheck is the best MMA heel. Y'all getting played.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Koscheck is the best MMA heel. Y'all getting played.

 

Yeah I think Kos prob is just playing a role and he does it well. I just don't find it entertaining. It is the one thing I don't like about Brock too but I love him as a fighter. And don't worry London I don't think there is any way Kos is leaving the GSP fight intact .

[rodzillahotrod]

speaking of firings kimbo got fired as well. i like the guy and really thinks is improved but yea hes not going to get good enough to win enough everyone knows his tatics. though im not sure if it was a smart move people love fist fights, and kimbo could of gave that. he has a big enough following, even with him losing i still want to watch his next fight. he's not going to headline any ufc fight but hes a great undercard imo. i know strikeforce is going to pick him up who doesnt want to see a brett rogers vs kimbo slice fight? though i would of been liked to seen kimbo vs paul buentello atleast before he left.

[Daffanka]

speaking of firings kimbo got fired as well. i like the guy and really thinks is improved but yea hes not going to get good enough to win enough everyone knows his tatics. though im not sure if it was a smart move people love fist fights, and kimbo could of gave that. he has a big enough following, even with him losing i still want to watch his next fight. he's not going to headline any ufc fight but hes a great undercard imo. i know strikeforce is going to pick him up who doesnt want to see a brett rogers vs kimbo slice fight? though i would of been liked to seen kimbo vs paul buentello atleast before he left.

 

That's the thing though, Kimbo's not good at punching.

 

Petrulezzi took him out with a jab, he gasses after three minutes, his legs are shot, he's 36 and I think the public is going to be far less interested in him now that he's lost to a bad heavyweight. It's not like any fight the guy's had is a Jung - Garcia or Frye - Takayama either.

 

I like Kimbo and I'm guessing he got paid quite a lot for his appearances which is nice, given the guy has a family and all. But he's gotten more chances than anyone and he hasn't really done anything with it.

 

e: also I don't like Rogers at all and I don't think he's even a top 10 HW, but he would take Kimbo's head off.