The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Daffanka]

Realistically Sonnen's probably going to get knocked out but it's pretty silly to completely disregard a guy with one of the best outside shots in the division and to immediately assume that he's going to get tapped because an ADCC champion submitted him and Rogan keeps telling us what a good ground game Anderson has.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Realistically Sonnen's probably going to get knocked out but it's pretty silly to completely disregard a guy with one of the best outside shots in the division and to immediately assume that he's going to get tapped because an ADCC champion submitted him and Rogan keeps telling us what a good ground game Anderson has.

 

I don't really need Joe Rogan telling me that Anderson has a good ground game when I've seen Anderson grapple with Jacare, and do well. And also, it's not like Sonnen hasn't been tapped other times, it wasn't just Maia... It was just Maia who exposed how juvenile Sonnen's jiu jitsu really is.(or gay jitsu as he calls it, as he has no respect for the art - he said that himself, long before he was ever ® and popular)

 

I'm not disregarding Sonnen, he's a good wrestler with poor striking and average submission defense. Dan Henderson had the best chance as a wrestler of beating Anderson, and I don't care that it's different styles... Sonnen can shoot from the outside all day, and it's just going to make for a really boring fight because Anderson will just resort to shadow boxing, dancing, and by the end of it will probably call Filho into the ring for a tea party all the while STILL avoiding Sonnen's harmless TD attempts.

 

Having a great double-leg shot with no threat to set it up = Anderson Silva laughing and collecting a paycheck.

[Daffanka]

I don't really need Joe Rogan telling me that Anderson has a good ground game when I've seen Anderson grapple with Jacare, and do well. And also, it's not like Sonnen hasn't been tapped other times, it wasn't just Maia... It was just Maia who exposed how juvenile Sonnen's jiu jitsu really is.(or gay jitsu as he calls it, as he has no respect for the art - he said that himself, long before he was ever ® and popular)

 

Do you actually think that a wrestler thinks BJJ is gay?

 

I'm not disregarding Sonnen, he's a good wrestler with poor striking and average submission defense. Dan Henderson had the best chance as a wrestler of beating Anderson, and I don't care that it's different styles... Sonnen can shoot from the outside all day, and it's just going to make for a really boring fight because Anderson will just resort to shadow boxing, dancing, and by the end of it will probably call Filho into the ring for a tea party all the while STILL avoiding Sonnen's harmless TD attempts.

 

I'm not really sure how you came to the conclusion that his striking is poor, that his only weapon is his double leg or that Henderson, who was outwrestled by both Murilo and Rogerio, is somehow a better wrestler than Sonnen.

 

Having a great double-leg shot with no threat to set it up = Anderson Silva laughing and collecting a paycheck.

 

It worked for Hendo. And Lutter. And Okami. Even Franklin took him down although that was from the clinch.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Maybe you should do some research into the whole Sonnen/BJJ is Gay ordeal before asking me if I'm serious about it. This was back before Sonnen even fought Filho the first time in WEC, before anyone really even knew who he was. He got a lot of heat, and some people even refused to train with him because he was a straight up homophobe all the time. Take it, or don't. I really don't care, but don't call out my facts if you aren't going to bother looking them up. Sonnen said training BJJ was for "fags" and he hated having another dude between his legs... As I said, this was a LONG time before he was Mr. ®, and had fans.

 

I come to the conclusion that his striking is poor based on watching his fights. He's tentative all the time, has no power, and usually just throws 1 punch at a time. I'd say his stand-up is below Matt Hughes, honestly.

 

Sure, it worked for Hendo for one round, and the following round he got his head bounced off the canvas with a good punch and choked out. Don't even bring up Lutter... He got gifted a takedown when Anderson barely missed that flying knee, and the other time Lutter wore himself out crawling after Anderson for it.

 

Also, could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Henderson's takedown wasn't a double, it was a clinched body lock that ended up looking like a belly to belly suplex, and Henderson did nothing with it aside from hug Anderson. The -only- reason Henderson was able to get inside to do that was because he BOXED with Anderson first. Sonnen doesn't have the balls or the ability to do that, nor the chin for that matter.

 

Done arguing, because this is honestly starting to feel like arguing with a sherdogger.

[Daffanka]

It's still amazing to me that Sonnen can rile people up to such a degree that they think his striking is worse than Hughes'. I thought most people saw through it but I guess that's why the UFC commercials for 117 is just Sonnen talking trash.

[justtxyank]

I'm not disregarding Sonnen,

 

It was just Maia who exposed how juvenile Sonnen's jiu jitsu really is.

 

Sonnen can shoot from the outside all day, and it's just going to make for a really boring fight

 

Having a great double-leg shot with no threat to set it up = Anderson Silva laughing and collecting a paycheck.

 

Pretty much sounds like you ARE disregarding him.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Pretty much sounds like you ARE disregarding him.

 

Okay, allow me to correct myself then... I'm not disregarding Sonnen as a wrestler, or even a fighter worthy of being in the UFC... But I am disregarding him as a potential Middleweight crownbearer. The dude is no threat to Silva whatsoever. I said Dan Henderson had the best chance of a middleweight as a wrestler in beating Silva, and I meant it...

 

Sonnen has nothing to back his wrestling up, which means Silva isn't going to be concerned and can just focus on avoiding the takedowns and punching Sonnen in the grill.

 

Henderson on the other hand has proven heavy hands, and some decent boxing. He clips people, and that's all it takes. So Silva had that to worry about, and to Henderson's credit he did land a few on Anderson.

 

So yeah, I am disregarding Sonnen as a challenger to the belt. The guy's a decent fighter for what he has, but what he has isn't nearly enough.

 

Being a world class wrestler and getting judo thrown to the ground and tapped by a mounted triangle is pretty juvenile jiu jitsu for a high level fighter, am I wrong?

[Moose]

Being a world class wrestler and getting judo thrown to the ground and tapped by a mounted triangle is pretty juvenile jiu jitsu for a high level fighter, am I wrong?

 

Nope.

[Daffanka]

Being a world class wrestler and getting judo thrown to the ground and tapped by a mounted triangle is pretty juvenile jiu jitsu for a high level fighter, am I wrong?

 

What about being triangle armbarred from the guard?

 

Honestly if you look at any fighter you're going to see some embarrassing moments, that's just the nature of MMA.

 

But let's not fight about it. I think you and I are never going to agree on anything that's contestable so I think at the very least we can settle that 117 is shaping up to be a hell of card.

[Dustin]

I don't expect it either, but it would be crazy to rule out a Sonnen victory. I have done that with many other one-dimensional wrestlers only to be proven wrong more times than not.

 

Henderson had the right idea against Silva in the first round only to throw it out the window in the second. He didn't go for a takedown until AFTER being rocked/dropped by a knee from what I remember. Who knows what would have happened had he continued to play it smart. Sonnen definitely won't make the same mistake.

[RingofHonorGuard]

What about being triangle armbarred from the guard?

 

Honestly if you look at any fighter you're going to see some embarrassing moments, that's just the nature of MMA.

 

But let's not fight about it. I think you and I are never going to agree on anything that's contestable so I think at the very least we can settle that 117 is shaping up to be a hell of card.

 

I agree, we're both on polar opposites it seems. I do tend to agree with some of the stuff you write, but more often than not in our society there's criticism more-so than praise. I'm a victim and offender of such, as are most.

I don't take it personally, however. Debate, combat, and things that make you go "oooh" and "ahhh" are what we live for as a society after all.

 

On the end note, I will say this... The only reason I brought up Sonnen's recent loss to Maia is the fact that it's, well, recent... Anderson has been near perfect, even in the fights he goofed around in, for I don't know how many fights now. Being a champion fighter is learning from your mistakes and overcoming them, which I believe Silva has more than done.... Sonnen has a chance to prove me wrong, I'm going to buy it regardless.

 

----

 

Predictions for UFC on Versus 2

 

Jones by TKO

Munoz by Split

Howard by U. Dec

Gomi by TKO(Upset Special pick)

 

Volkmann by submission

Johnson by U. Dec

Irvin by TKO

Stann by TKO

Charles Oliveira by submission

Kimmons by U. Dec

 

Henderson had the right idea against Silva in the first round only to throw it out the window in the second. He didn't go for a takedown until AFTER being rocked/dropped by a knee from what I remember. Who knows what would have happened had he continued to play it smart. Sonnen definitely won't make the same mistake.

 

Actually, Henderson was pretty effective at nullifying Anderson's knees; think he only ate one the whole fight. Henderson got the clinch takedown in the first... Funny thing about the second is Henderson tried two takedowns, and Anderson ended up taking him down both times instead. It eventually led to Anderson drilling Hendo on the temple with a good punch hard enough to smack his head off the mat, and then he sunk in the choke shortly after.

 

If you watch the first round takedown again, check out how awesome Anderson's guard is to keep Henderson from passing off the good slam.

 

He might not have World Champion BJJ skills, but the guy is extremely innovative with his ground game. Anderson isn't anything special in terms of technique, he's just got such long legs and charisma that some of the stuff he tries is just unthinkable. Like that guard I was talking about, and how easily he keeps a body triangle on someone. Most people can't keep a body triangle on like that for as long as he can, as it puts a lot of pressure on your own leg(s). It just shows how freakishly dexterous Anderson is.

[Daffanka]

Jones by TKO, Youtube throws and elbows.

 

Okami by TKO, Munoz has the defense, chin and base of a paper bag.

 

Ellenberger by TKO, punches to the back of the head.

 

Griffin by decision, Gomi will throw a punch at the start of the fight and the trajectory means it'll land somewhere in the third.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Jones by TKO, Youtube throws and elbows.

 

Okami by TKO, Munoz has the defense, chin and base of a paper bag.

 

Ellenberger by TKO, punches to the back of the head.

 

Griffin by decision, Gomi will throw a punch at the start of the fight and the trajectory means it'll land somewhere in the third.

 

I have to admit, I laughed a little when I read your Ellenberger prediction.

 

I'm cutting Gomi some slack on his performance against Florian. I know Gomi hasn't looked like the worldbeater that PRIDE and Shooto made him out to be for so long, but I can't help but be a fan of the guy. Been a fan since I saw him Street Fighter Turbo style knee that Gracie half to death in a few seconds on one of the Bushidos.

 

---------------

 

Just watched the weigh-ins for Jones/Vlad... No Joe Rogan for the weigh-in = deadest crowd of all time. It was like they dropped Mike Goldberg off at a Zombie convention or something, because there was nothing but silence and groans from the crowd.

[Daffanka]

UFC on Versus 2: Bushido

 

http://i32.tinypic.com/1678t1s.gif

 

[Daffanka]

Some random thoughts before I go to bed. I'm not editing the above post and tarnishing that beautiful .gif.

 

Gomi rules. Also it's a bad idea to stand in front of him with your hands down.

 

GOMI WON WOOOO

 

Seriously Gomi won that's awesome

 

Ellenberger looked decent but unspectacular. I didn't think he was particularly hurt on the feet and he landed that elbow from the guard all night.

 

Okami is still the best fighter who needs to stay more active. On the other hand there's not a lot you can do against a wrestler who literally jumps into your sprawl with terrible sloppy singles. I want knees on the ground so bad.

 

Those crucifix finishes where the other guy just gets destroyed are some of my favorites. This beats out Hughes - Newton.

 

It was a really good card.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Lightweight division just got a bit more exciting now with the Gomi win.

 

Decent fights, Jones won as expected. Nothing groundbreaking, except the Gomi KO of course... That KO was awesome. Griffin fell like time froze.

 

How epic would Takanori Gomi vs. Melvin Guillard be for a main event of a future UFC on Versus?

[ACCBiggz]

Just watched the weigh-ins for Jones/Vlad... No Joe Rogan for the weigh-in = deadest crowd of all time. It was like they dropped Mike Goldberg off at a Zombie convention or something, because there was nothing but silence and groans from the crowd.

 

Had absolutely zero to do with Goldberg. That's just nonsense. Had to do with this being one of the least attended weigh-ins in QUITE some time. It filled out some, and Munoz and Jones both got sizable pops from the live crowd.

 

Goldberg probably had the third biggest autograph line that day behind Dana and... Fabricio Werdum.

[brashleyholland]

Had absolutely zero to do with Goldberg. That's just nonsense. Had to do with this being one of the least attended weigh-ins in QUITE some time. It filled out some, and Munoz and Jones both got sizable pops from the live crowd.

 

Goldberg probably had the third biggest autograph line that day behind Dana and... Fabricio Werdum.

 

Another reminder of just how big/important 'Brand UFC' is. I wonder how many autographs Mauro and Coker sign at the average event...

 

I can't remember for the life of me where I read it, but there was a funny story from the Fedor vs Rogers weigh-ins. Some local press guy was seen telling a tubby dude about all the fighters they wanted to interview and that if they had time, they might try and have a word with "that Coker guy, y'know, their Dana White". To which the tubby dude replied, "Well you're talking to him".

[Zoloftjunkie]

Saw this and thought you you Daff.

 

http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/148003/

[brashleyholland]

Saw this and thought you you Daff.

 

http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/148003/

 

Absolutely fantastic.

 

This is the first time in a long time that I have genuinely been sucked-in by the pre-fight hype. I really want to see what happens on Saturday and it's 99% because of Chael Sonnen's overtime on the hype machine.

 

I see so many fights, read and write so many interviews...it's easy to get jaded. A couple of months ago I did 14 interviews in a week, asking the standard "What are you thoughts on your opponent and how do you see the fight going?" question and getting the "He's a tough fighter, I've got a lot of respect for him, but I'm going to do my best to win the fight" answer. It was probably my least enjoyable week in recent memory, for the sheer monotony of it.

 

Chael is different, at least he has been for this fight. My honest oppinion is that it's about 75% put-on, 25% truth (if you read/watch EVERYTHING he's said then he has a lot of genuinely respectful things to say about Anderson)...but that doesn't matter. He's contractually oblidged to hype the fight and he's about as far from phoning it in as you can get.

 

There's a very good chance that this fight is going to be one or more of the following; boring, over in a minute or uncompetetive. But I don't care, and it's pretty much all down to Chael. Can't wait.

[Daffanka]

These are my picks and I stand by them.

 

Chael Sonnen by decision. The short version of my reason is that Anderson's wrestling is pretty bad and that his guard is mostly designed to stall. This means he will be taken down and liberally elbowed in the face for five rounds by Sonnen because Sonnen is actually very active from inside the guard.

 

Thiago Alves by decision. Jon Fitch is a very, very good fighter. Thiago Alves is a very, very good fighter. However Fitch's lack of explosive takedowns and chain wrestling to transition from catching kicks and generally low key way of fighting means Thiago is going to pretty liberally kick his legs, punch him in the face and rock him several times while Fitch is going to have small periods of unimpressive grinding. I think that's a big problem with the grinding style of fighting, you have to win the entire round with it because if your opponent does something impressive that's going to stand out so much clearer than three and half minutes of short knees to the thigh and tiny body shots from inside the guard.

 

Rafael dos Anjos by submission. Guida's a great gatekeeper because his way of fighting is going to overwhelm people who either have some mental or technical deficiency and are drawn into a cardio/athletic battle with him. Unfortunately for him dos Anjos has neither.

 

Almeida by submission. Hughes gonna get knocked down and tapped.

 

dos Santos by TKO. I love Roy Nelson but he's a fat middleweight fighting one of the fastest legitimately big guys. Unless dos Santos' wrestling and grappling game REALLY isn't there I don't think he'll be able to hold down or submit dos Santos, and I don't think he'll be able to deal with someone who sets up their power strikes as nicely as dos Santos does. For what it's worth I'm not underestimating Roy Nelson, I know he's one of the top grapplers in the HW division but dos Santos is too big, too fast and too good at boxing.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Man has anyone else seen the video of Roger Huerta beating down some thug that decked a woman in the street? I know he will prob be charged and sued for it but if there was any real justice he wouldn't.

[brashleyholland]

<p>Staredown of the century. </p><p> </p><p>

<span>http://www.mmabay.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/AS2-1.jpg</span></p>

[Zoloftjunkie]

I really don't understand the appeal of sonens antics. If this is what it takes to make a fight interesting then you must be looking at a bad fight about to happen. This isn't pro wrestling, I don't need theatrics to get me excited to see a fight. All I need is two skilled fighters going in to see who the better man is. If only there could be more classy and respectfull fighters like my man K-flo.

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zoloftjunkie" data-cite="Zoloftjunkie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I really don't understand the appeal of sonens antics. If this is what it takes to make a fight interesting then you must be looking at a bad fight about to happen. This isn't pro wrestling, I don't need theatrics to get me excited to see a fight. All I need is two skilled fighters going in to see who the better man is. If only there could be more classy and respectfull fighters like my man K-flo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Trash talking and prize fighting have been pretty much been hand-in-hand since Muhammed Ali started incorporating pro wrestling style trash talk into boxing... And I'm sure there was trash talking even before then. But it's always been heavily apart of it since then, and there's probably no turning back.</p><p> </p><p> Trash talking has built some of the best fights in the history of the sport, and as long as it's all for the sake of building the fight and it's nothing seriously personal then it's all the better. A lot of fans only care about the fact that two people are fighting... so the more real and personal it feels the better.</p><p> </p><p> I mean... for example... Wanderlei Silva and Quinton Jackson trash talked each other through out all three of their epic battles. Would those fights have been the same without the heated staredowns, and mouthing? Probably not. Would anyone have really cared about Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz's fight on a large scale without all the hype and controversy? Probably not. And let's be honest, BJ Penn calling out Sean Sherk and busting his balls for the steroid stuff -definitely- got that pay per view more buys. </p><p> </p><p> Another thing is, pre-fight hype and trash talking is a way for some guys to get motivated. And it's a great way to get inside weak minds and cripple them before the fight starts. Psychology is apart of any sport.</p>