Rocky Golden

[Trashbear]

In my CGC game last year I had Dan DaLay, who is basically a canadian version of Rocky, only without as much star power. But I had no problem in getting him to A overness and B and higher matches despite his lack of strong ring skills.

 

Granted that CGC is more pop over performance, but the same factors apply. Keep his overness and momentum up, protect him in the ring, and in matches where you want a good grade, ie semi and main events, make sure he is going against a skilled and over worker to carry him. These same prinicples will usually work for any halfway skilled big man. They can carry the strap and with overness, menace or entertainment, carry storylines and angles as well.

 

That is what I would do with Rocky to keep him strong and useful as champion or challenger. After all, Hogan managed to carry the WWE despite being less than average in the ring. Rocky can do the same for TCW.

 

Good point about the nature of CGC's product versus TCW's.

 

But as for the last part of your post...Hogan certainly carried the WWF/E, but Lex Luger never carried WCW. And I think Rocky is more Luger than Hogan, and TCW is more like WCW than WWE.

[Dragonmack]

Good point about the nature of CGC's product versus TCW's.

 

But as for the last part of your post...Hogan certainly carried the WWF/E, but Lex Luger never carried WCW. And I think Rocky is more Luger than Hogan, and TCW is more like WCW than WWE.

 

Luger would be a good comparison except for one thing. WCW never put Luger over Flair for the title. Cornell put Golden over for the belt. So we never really knew if Luger could have carried WCW because he was never really given the chance. Also despite the almost godlike push Luger got early on , he wasn't really all that charismatic, and with his constant flip flopping back and forth between heel and face he could never really get a crowd solidly for him or against him to build real heat. So I see Golden more as what Luger might have been if the promotion had really believed in him.

 

Yeah Hogan carried WWE, but Vince being behind him from the beginning made it possible. Besides, Tommy is there to carry TCW, but Rocky could be Dusty Rhodes for them as opposed to Lex Lugar.

[Remianen]

I personally don't think the Champion needs to be the 'best worker', as opposed to the guy who looks and acts like the best fighter.

 

You get into product with this assertion (as with Jennie's). Product determines who is 'best' at any given role. Rocky would be GOD in SWF or CGC but not in a NOTBPW or perhaps a TCW. Products that demand their workers be a certain skill level (or higher) in-ring, aren't as easy to navigate. It's why comparing people from popularity based promotions doesn't fit.

 

Like I said, it becomes an issue of perception. Rocky requires lots of protecting to make him successful in TCW as champion. The question then becomes an issue of whether it's worth investing the energy in doing so when you have people like Aaron Andrews (or Joey Minnesota or John Anderson or Brent Hill or Koshiro Ino or Joshua Taylor or Eddie Peak or....) on the roster (or Hell Monkey or DWN outside the promotion) who, with similar or less investment could be superior all on their own. Heck, you could do both at the same time (with a Rock-Mankind type of dynamic or a better version of Hogan-Beefcake). In fact, I could make a case for Eddie Peak being a far superior candidate for Rocky's push and it wouldn't be a tough sell. When I played TCW in testing, I usually took the title off Rocky and used him for trade fodder to bring in people from NOTBPW and because I wanted to put on a Kunomasu-Cornell program with the title (that would resonate with TCW's audience far more than with say, CGC or SWF's).

 

I'm not saying he can't be made into a decent champion. I'm saying it's not worth the effort when there is SO much superior talent on the roster (and available outside the promotion) who wouldn't require quite so much effort to prop up. TCW is TCW and I tend to prefer their performance based style too much to pull an SWF move and prop up someone as champion based on a "doesn't he look like a champion?" assertion.

[brashleyholland]

Here's what I did with Golden.

 

- Carried on the Keith feud for a while, as the game was set up to do. Gave him the chance to mix it up with a vet, plus he got the benefit of beating him when the feud finally ended.

 

- Had him feud with Rick Law in a series of semi-main event bouts. The Cornell-Wolf vs Freedom Fighters feud took centre stage, simply because nothing was beating their bout ratings and I wanted to finish my shows by putting my best foot forward.

 

- Eventually, he dropped the title to Keith (as part of an epic angle focused on giving Keith one last run at the top). From there, it was a rebuilding process. He he's still feuding with Law...cutting promo's really helps the feud on both sides, as well as rocketing Golden's overness.

 

 

- Now I've turned his deficiencies into a storyline of sorts. After losing the title, he's realised that he can't necessarily hang with the elite of TCW and get by on power alone. He's on a mission to rebuild himself from the ground up. I'm using him in fairly short semi-squash matches every week, cutting promo's on Law to keep their feud going. Every now and again I'll throw an upper mid-carder at him as well and give him a longer chance to shine against better opposition.

 

- In my game, The Machines are currently acting as cohorts of Law. Both of those guys are getting good match ratings with Rocky, without chemistry.

[shawn michaels]

I'm somewhat of a traditionalist. The Champion goes on last. No exceptions.

 

Agreed. I never had exceptions, but's it's something very doable sometimes if we headline the show with two really over stars (hhh and hbk for example, as someone already said here). However, and altough i am also traditionalist, i understand it's possible thing to do and it works but i just don't like it. but hey, that's just me.

[Irish Wolf]

The champ may be the most heart of the company but his story may not be what resonates with fans the most. So where I would say at least on most PPVs the championship match should go last it doesn't have to happen all the time. Especially when you know for sure the match before it is gonna blow it out of the water. Pretty much after the last HBK vs Undertaker match most fans were done they didn't need to see anything else and having the championship match come after (which wasn't half bad taken on its own) just made it look even weaker.

 

So yeah a good 75% of the time championship matches should end a PPV. But you have 4 weeks of TV in between, sometimes more depending and the champ doesn't need to go on last on any of those show.

[mikemelling]

That is what I would do with Rocky to keep him strong and useful as champion or challenger. After all, Hogan managed to carry the WWE despite being less than average in the ring. Rocky can do the same for TCW.

 

WWF did that with Hogan at a time when the WWF was all about personality and not about skill. Those who had ability wrestlers paled in comparison to the much more loved characters in the business.

 

This is my concern with Rocky in TCW, he doesn't fit with the dynamics of the promotion. He would likely be ridiculously over in SWF with their style, but in a Performance based promotion he is always going to suffer.

 

John Cena in the WWE is where he's at because he is arguabley entertaining... John Cena in Ring of Honour (When it was still the old ROH) would have been booed out of the arena in 5 minutes flat.

 

It's about the type of wrestler in the type of promotion, and that's why the Rocky situation is more difficult.

[Dragonmack]

Actually WWF/E at the time Hogan came in was probably more like TCW than SWF. Remember their champion for the 6 years before had been Bob Backlund. A very good technical wrestler but hardly all that charismatic ( at least before he went psycho! ) Hogan ushered in a change that led to a more cartoonish product, and more over the top characters, but that structure wasn't really in place yet in late 83. Before that point it was much more of a traditional style promotion.

 

But all that is getting off the point. Remi stated it best in saying that you can make Rocky a more than credible champion with a lot of work, but that there are probably a lot of easier options to build as foundations of the promotion.

 

My original point was that there are several uses and methods available to make Rocky a very useful main eventer besides just jobbing him down the card or ditching him off to a midcard tag team. And that it is possible to get good matches out of him, as long as you aren't expecting him to carry someone else.

[The Shape]

The issue I have with the easier options is that they are exactly that. Adam made TCW book Golden as Cornell despite only B- overness and become champion. So I wonder about how exactly this happened. There's the grittier, wrestling as a sport, old school aspect that means he doesn't fit on performance ratings, but in terms of being a traditional, big guy champ he does, which I think is why he is where he is.

[TEWFan]

Well, right now he is the second most-over guy behind Cornell and tied with Eddie Peak. His momentum is also in the 90's, but his best match came on a B show against Sammy Bach (getting a 75). I am training him by having him work against the Machines, Bach, Oxford, Joel Bryant and Hell Monkey among others in B shows and his skills have gone up a couple of points. Hell, I hired Steve Flash to train my workers in MAW (which is my developmental fed) but I made sure to have him job to Rocky twice in the B show to help his skills.

 

Right now I am going to continue to have The Freedom Fighters and The Syndicate headline shows while Golden works with Peak. Really, Rocky gets insane scores by simply walking down to the ring or saving people (usually 90-94 rating) and Peak's menace attack angles on Rocky are drawing 88-92 ratings, so who cares if the matches get 74? I have switched some feuds around with Sam Keith taking on Bryan Vessey in a "veterans that want respect" feuds, Ino is feuding with Tornado, Law is feuding with Benson and Hell Monkey is the All-Action champ.

 

BTW, Sam Keith took Aaron Andrews under his wing and I am tempted to give him a massive push since I need a solid upper midcarder after the SWF stole Danny Fonzarelli (who fits them better anyway). Since I have both of Keith's sons in development I am toying with the idea of having Keith turn face and become Andrews on-screen mentor, making his kids mad and then debuting them to feud with Daddy-O and Andrews.

 

BTW, Champagne Lover, Fox Mask and Frankie Perez are getting over HUGE without much effort on my part.

 

As for Rocky well, the truth is he reminds me of Lex Luger and I was one of those who believes Luger could have been a great champion if one of the companies invested in him, so I want Rocky to suceed badly.

[Bigpapa42]

The issue I have with the easier options is that they are exactly that. Adam made TCW book Golden as Cornell despite only B- overness and become champion. So I wonder about how exactly this happened. There's the grittier, wrestling as a sport, old school aspect that means he doesn't fit on performance ratings, but in terms of being a traditional, big guy champ he does, which I think is why he is where he is.

 

This.

 

Especially in a diary game, simply moving the title to someone better feels... cheap. It is easy and perhaps better. Like Remi says, there are so many good options in TCW. However, it feels like Rocky starts as champ for a reason. I've never found running TCW to be particularly challenging - perhaps a bit tougher than the SWF but not by much. Now with a stronger main event scene in terms of talent, it feels like Golden as champion offsets that a bit. Its a bit of the challenge. Its not wrong, but I just like that small element of challenge that its adds to try to keep the belt on Golden and try to make it work for awhile.

 

I can't disagree with Mr. McNeish - there are plenty of examples of champions not being the headliners throughout the history of the business. I will say that each of the examples had particular circumstances and context, as well as consequences. You could look at each one and determine whether it did any harm to the promotion, the champion, or even the title. Having been done does not necessarily make it a good idea, or at least a good idea for a different promotion with different circumstances and expectations. As has been pointed out, different products means different expectations.

 

Hogan doing mid-show matches is interesting... but house shows are a bit different than even TV tapings, let alone pay per view events. Curious what the reason behind that was, though.

[Greg McNeish]

I just want to say how awesome this discussion has been. Man, do I wish all wrestling forums had this many well-spoken, intelligent, and most importantly polite people contributing. Promotions all around.

 

Hogan doing mid-show matches is interesting... but house shows are a bit different than even TV tapings, let alone pay per view events. Curious what the reason behind that was, though.

 

This is all heresay, as I was only born in 1982, but apparantly that was standard practice for the WWF (and particularily the WWWF), for shows that weren't for broadcast in their entirety. They would put the top draw on just before the intermission, so that everyone would see it, before some of the crowd had to leave, and before the crowd got burnt out.

 

From what I have learned, they basically set it up like to mini shows. They would start from the bottom, with jobbers jockeying for position, and build up to the big headlining match; then they would have intermission, before doing it all over again, from scratch. Apparantly, the Tag Team Champions closed out a lot of shows, probably because the more people were involved, the quicker the action, and the more shenanigans they did. Basically, they saved their highest energy match for the end, so that when everyone left, they were all jacked up, and ready to buy their tickets for the next show.

 

That booking strategy doesn't translate to TEW, for the obvious reason of show grades being so heavily weighted towards the last two matches. As well, it should be noted that when the WWF moved to broadcasting shows live (Wrestlemania, Wrestling Classic, and the War to Settle the Score), they got away from this model, and moved to the now-standard practice of closing out the show with the headline match. They did, however, maintain that booking strategy for house shows until the late 80s.

[Editor6]

The issue I have with the easier options is that they are exactly that. Adam made TCW book Golden as Cornell despite only B- overness and become champion. So I wonder about how exactly this happened. There's the grittier, wrestling as a sport, old school aspect that means he doesn't fit on performance ratings, but in terms of being a traditional, big guy champ he does, which I think is why he is where he is.

 

Consider also that he may not have been Cornell's first choice, but with everything that went wrong in TCW since 08 (the rash of injuries, Baine leaving, Genghis bombing as a top face, Law turning heel out of necessity), Rocky may have ended up just being "good enough." Adam could have easily had Cornell keep the belt himself or give it to Wolf or Sam, but he didn't.

 

Some solid advice in this thread. I'll add something I saw in another thread (not specifically about Golden): The "overbook" road agent note is your friend. Remember this about Rocky, too: He's only 27. He's got plenty of time to get better.

[Remianen]

The issue I have with the easier options is that they are exactly that. Adam made TCW book Golden as Cornell despite only B- overness and become champion. So I wonder about how exactly this happened. There's the grittier, wrestling as a sport, old school aspect that means he doesn't fit on performance ratings, but in terms of being a traditional, big guy champ he does, which I think is why he is where he is.

 

This line of thinking is flawed, to me. Where do you draw the line? Adam made TCW the #2 promotion in North America. Does that mean he intends for them to stay that way so you shouldn't even try to supplant SWF? Also, consider mitigating circumstances. TCW went through some financial upheaval. With Cornell as owner AND champion, he had to step back from one of those roles to take care of things. It's perfectly reasonable for him to AGAIN make a questionable decision (you don't tend to have financial upheavals when making good, sound business decisions. How much financial upheaval has Warren Buffett had?) by investing in the future....before that future is the present. Wanting someone new to carry the torch isn't a bad thing. WHO he chose to be that torch bearer, is. Putting a prototypical SWF star there can be argued was a questionable decision but understandable (he couldn't pass it to Wolf, it would be unseemly, and everyone else at the top has already been champion so wouldn't qualify as 'new').

 

Adam gives you the sandbox, that doesn't mean he intends every grain of sand to remain in the place it was when he gave it to you. All I'm saying is that Rocky Golden is far from ideal as the World Heavyweight Champion of TCW, given their product. With a few months of build, Sammy Bach would be a better choice (among all the others previously named) because he wouldn't need to be carried to a decent match, he could produce great matches himself. Sure it's a challenge making Rocky a legit champion (primarily because what he lacks can't be easily produced, unlike overness) but if the intent was to have Cornell step back and handle business while taking a secondary onscreen role, how "intended" is it for him to still be main eventing shows and PPVs?

 

I think a 'babyface chases the title and tries to prove himself by overcoming all obstacles' type of program could benefit Rocky and at the end of it, he might (MIGHT) be skilled enough to pull his own weight as champ. That's typically what I do. By 2012, he's firmly on top of TCW, having legitimately beaten most of the roster.

 

And Editor: Rocky starts the game at 26 so yeah, he's got some time on his side.

[Trashbear]

 

I think a 'babyface chases the title and tries to prove himself by overcoming all obstacles' type of program could benefit Rocky and at the end of it, he might (MIGHT) be skilled enough to pull his own weight as champ. That's typically what I do. By 2012, he's firmly on top of TCW, having legitimately beaten most of the roster.

 

And Editor: Rocky starts the game at 26 so yeah, he's got some time on his side.

 

He and Rick Law turned out some good matches for me, they were married for like six months before Rocky moved on to a World Title program.

 

I called him Lex Luger earlier (not a compliment), and Dragonmack wisely pointed out that the NWA/WCW never really "made" Luger, in that he never really went over the top guy, Ric Flair, for the belt. Some could argue that his initial run with the belt was tainted due to the surrounding circumstances. In TCW, Golden did get made by Tommy Cornell, so that comparison may not be accurate.

 

While I certainly never bury Rocky, I just never push him with the zeal I do my favorites. He's always around the main event, but he's not the guy I look to when I think about drawing big bucks in TCW. Not that making money with them is difficult, amirite?

[Tempest Kane]

I had the best solution of all... i jobbed him out to Sam Keith and fired his arse

 

One more run for the Bad Guy! , If i need to book around someone, i atleast want it to be someone interesting like Vengance , Rocky is just so bland... like Luger...

[Remianen]

I had the best solution of all... i jobbed him out to Sam Keith and fired his arse

 

One more run for the Bad Guy! , If i need to book around someone, i atleast want it to be someone interesting like Vengance , Rocky is just so bland... like Luger...

 

Yeesh! I wouldn't do THAT. It would be handing him over to SWF with a pretty bow wrapped around him. Rocky-Khoklov would be freshly minted MONEY for them. I send him to Canada in the hopes that he'll pick up something while working there. I'd send him to development too, for the same reason(s). But fire him? Heck naw! Eisen would turn into Montgomery Burns, rubbing his hands with glee.

[Bigpapa42]

Yeesh! I wouldn't do THAT. It would be handing him over to SWF with a pretty bow wrapped around him. Rocky-Khoklov would be freshly minted MONEY for them. I send him to Canada in the hopes that he'll pick up something while working there. I'd send him to development too, for the same reason(s). But fire him? Heck naw! Eisen would turn into Montgomery Burns, rubbing his hands with glee.

 

Yeah, it would be like Jack Bruce Version 2.0. Excpet this time, you're willingly handing Rocky over instead of waiting for him to be stolen.

 

It easy to argue that Golden isn't as gooas Bruce, you do have consider that he's a full decade younger. And while he may never be as entertaining or as well-rounded as Bruce, Golden usually tends to improve a fair bit if he has regular matches against quailty competitors.

 

I won't say its wrong to simply get rid of Golden... but I do find it an awfully questionable decision.

[CJAlex]

I fed Rocky Golden to Raul Hughes my new Main Eventer

(How I switched from out of the Business to on Hiatus)

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Teh_Showtime]

he's not bad by any standards

 

Ive had him champ for 15 moths and pulling B-matches with wolf I have him dominate rahn and bring in henry lee to dominate. The key is putting him against ring generals Cornell, Minnesota, keith, brent hill ALL HAD B- OR HIGHER WITH GOLDEN at the top of the card

 

but then again I turned modern to low and pop/preformance is equal

[Remianen]

he's not bad by any standards

 

Ive had him champ for 15 moths and pulling B-matches with wolf I have him dominate rahn and bring in henry lee to dominate. The key is putting him against ring generals Cornell, Minnesota, keith, brent hill ALL HAD B- OR HIGHER WITH GOLDEN at the top of the card

 

but then again I turned modern to low and pop/preformance is equal

 

So, in other words, you changed the promotion's product to better suit him so now he's not bad by any standards? I would imagine if you changed it to CGC or SWF's product, he'd be a god!

 

Seriously, folks here are talking about how he fits within TCW's default product. Of course if you change it to be closer to sports entertainment, he'd do well. Of course if you only put him in matches against Cornell or Keith or Hill or Anderson, he's going to do well. The question becomes whether it's worth doing so or not. Performance oriented bookers are likely to take the title off him and put it on someone who doesn't need babysitting and use him differently, in the hopes of him one day improving to that point. A few people will job him out the door and give Eisen a gift-wrapped icon. I'd think few people would actually change the product overall, just to better suit one worker.