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Mortal Online


Genadi

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I've been into MMO's for years now and have gradually gotten over the lame themepark, hold your hand while you solo games like WoW and the rest. I wish I could get into EVE but I'm not a fan of space etc. so I've been waiting forever for this game to hit. Any old UO fans should like this game it pulls alot of those features. Just of the top of my head the ones I'm most hyped for are...

 

* True sandbox gameplay

* Full PVP loot

* Constructible Houses, Guild Halls, Shops, Stables etc. (Not instanced crap, place em anywhere you want!)

* Constructible roads & bridges

* Taming of animals (You don't buy mounts that fold up into your pocket when not used. You tame them and then ride it or have it follow, defend, attack with you wherever you go and they will die if attacked enough).

* Amazing graphics

* Non gear based game

* Twitch based combat, no macro clickfest that has become WoW Arena.

 

The list goes on but please have a look if it sounds to your liking...

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/age_verification?destination=node%2F92

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Dang, it's working for me. It takes you to the main site where you have to enter age verification... did I mention there's lot's of blood.

 

Worked for me too.

 

I am trying to find the cost but i cant. how much does it cost to play and per month.

 

I do like how it looks so far as it looks alot like the swg which i loved.

 

Q: How much will it cost?

A: Mortal Online will require a monthly fee similar to other MMOGs on the market. 14.25€ (including VAT) for customers from the EU and 14.25$ (no VAT) for everybody else, plus the initial cost for the client (includes 1 free month).

 

Nevermind found it under the FAQ section. Guess I should have looked there earlier. :D

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What is "Twitch based?"

 

EDIT: Figured it out.

 

I always have trouble getting into a new MMO, especially if you don't have a structure for the first few hours. When I hit 70 (and then 80) in WoW, I felt like they'd held my hand too long; when I entered the realm of "infinite possibility," I could do whatever and I knew what I wanted. But on the other hand, I played EverQuest back when I was a youngin [Okay, super youngin] and couldn't figure out what to do at all. That's just my personal thing, though. I want the game to tell me in so many words what it's going to be encouraging.

 

Your mileage, as always, may vary.

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I'm going to mention my horrible secret.

 

About a year ago, just before I quit WoW, I was having a chat with some guildies, and I developed the seedling of a concept for what I felt was the "ideal" MMO. The idea's been refined and in some ways radically changed in the past year, and the current incarnation is a plan for an Xbox Indie Developer game, if I ever bother to get back to developing some of the more basic systems (I have a weird idea of combat...). I could go on and on about it, but I'll spare you the explaination.

 

One of the things I felt, when I was hammering out the details of the current incarnation, was that equipment is fun. Having every weapon be the same, to me, is very very boring and amateurish. And there's always those min/max guys who want to customize their stats, and you don't want to alienate them. Even in "twitch" games, they're still there -- the guys using their UMPs or MP40s (depending on your flavor of Call of Duty, the first series that came to mind) and are dead set on having the best weapon. So to claim it's a non-gear-based game is, to me, basically saying it's a non-combat game, or a non-loot game. It's kind of a crazy concept, to me at least.

 

EDIT: Well. I could see gear having a somewhat limited effect, but what I mean to say is that if gear had no effect I'd think that was crazy.

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That sounds cool.

 

I tried WoW but kept getting kiled by pricks every few seconds. I have tried Runescape, but was bored with it.

 

I play Diablo II. I am one of those people who want the best of everyhing. :p

 

I'm waiting for III to hit. :p

 

Mortal looks cool, but not sure I would pay the 15 bucks a month for it.

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That sounds cool.

 

I tried WoW but kept getting kiled by pricks every few seconds. I have tried Runescape, but was bored with it.

 

I play Diablo II. I am one of those people who want the best of everyhing. :p

 

I'm waiting for III to hit. :p

 

Mortal looks cool, but not sure I would pay the 15 bucks a month for it.

 

Sounds cool? Ha! You haven't heard anything! I wrote the basic outline, which contained only the things I had set in stone that were directly relevant to the game system? 22 pages, although a lot of that was formatting. Took the formatting out, and I think it was only like 16.

 

WoW is one of those games, especially on PvP servers, that you need to know people. If you have someone who can (and in my case, was absolutely dying to) come out and save your butt from somebody who's spawn-killing newbies, things get a lot easier.

 

Diablo was my favorite game for a long, long time. Which is really weird because it's one of the few games I've never gotten very far in. I always linger in Act I for like 4 months, just killing off goblins and the early bosses. Then I get bored and start a new character. This happens repeatedly.

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What is "Twitch based?"

 

EDIT: Figured it out.

 

I always have trouble getting into a new MMO, especially if you don't have a structure for the first few hours.

 

This game definitely doesn't. You start out with a robe and that's it, used to be naked until all the immature people petitioned against it. Yes there's even nudity in the game.

 

A true sandbox mmo there should be no hand holding, it's up to you the player to decide what to do first....

 

Do you want to go and tame an animal and raise that skill? Do you want to start mining straight away so your strength is raised for combat and you'll have materials to creat weapons and armour with? Do you want to start stealing and raise your pickpocket skill on your way to becoming a thief? Do you want to go undercover and spy on another guild, finding out all of their secrets so your guild can destroy them? Do you want to find a nice spot near a lake to build your house where you can live out your days as a hermit? Do you want to start studying magic by buying some books and raising that skill? Do you want to become a merchant, going out and finding rare minerals and building bridges and roads to make the routes more accesible?

 

You decide your fate and everyones path is different. IMO that's a true sandbox mmo.

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It also kinda hurts my opinion of this game personally that I love dungeons. My WoW endgame consisted entirely of dungeons and running in a big circle around Orgrimmar (or Dalaran) chatting with my guild. I guess that kinda makes me not that much of an MMO player. I'm really just using WoW as a really shiny IRC channel. :p
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A true sandbox mmo there should be no hand holding, it's up to you the player to decide what to do first....

 

Which is why a true sandbox MMO cannot survive (much less thrive) in today's market.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you to a point. But once you get to talking to folks who do this kind of thing for a living, you find out the hardships involved with producing a true sandbox MMO. Without the political intrigue and depth, EVE would've died YEARS ago.

 

Hate it or love it, today's typical MMO player needs the themepark. They don't have the sense of direction or ambition or goals that the 'ol skool UO' players took for granted. They need to be told what their goals are, what they should aim for, what's 'the best' since most of the time, they don't have the (play)time to figure it out for themselves. Theorycrafters (or 'min/maxers' in common parlance) are such an incredibly small minority, most players have no idea. However, it's usually those people who can petition the developers effectively because they speak the developers' language (hard numbers).

 

I like the idea of Mortal but what I like even more is that their target numbers are so humble (100k subs is what they're planning for, which is a far cry from the 300k 'average' that has become the de-facto standard). I'd be surprised if they even got that many because there are way too many people who won't even look at a game with non-consensual PvP (and no, logging in to the game does not indicate consent to the general market). Those who do look at it will scream to the heavens (and the interwebz/series of tubes) that the game is one big gankfest, just because they got owned once or twice.

 

There's a reason a 'true sandbox' hasn't really been attempted in almost a decade. The only reason I know this is because several years ago, I looked into making a game that I felt would be 'great'. Talking to as many people as I could (lead designers, coders/programmers, artists, world designers, encounter designers, producers, server techs, and VC people), I learned that there are forces at work that prevent certain things from being produced because of their risk levels. When the word 'focus cut' becomes a part of everyday vernacular, it turns the MMO biz into the music biz. Think P!nk. Her first album was dictated to her by her financers (the record label) but when it was successful, it gave her the opportunity to do what she wanted to do. The same kinda thing exists in MMOs. But the colossal failures of Brad McQuaid and even Mr. UO himself, Richard Garriott, have complicated that to a degree. Many creative types (McQuaid, Garriott, Paul Heyman) are alike. Creatively, they're awesome but they SUCK when it comes to money (budgets and such).

 

I just hope Mortal doesn't flop (hi Darkfall). If it does, it'll be a long time before another game of its kind comes this far through the development pipe. Well, not including Planetside II, that is.

 

It also kinda hurts my opinion of this game personally that I love dungeons. My WoW endgame consisted entirely of dungeons and running in a big circle around Orgrimmar (or Dalaran) chatting with my guild. I guess that kinda makes me not that much of an MMO player. I'm really just using WoW as a really shiny IRC channel. :p

 

And developers LOVE players like you. You use little in the way of resources and you don't have a burning need to devour content like steroid addled termites. That isn't sarcastic at all and I truly hope you get a little further along in your planned design. I think the problem is going to be finding the $30+ mil you'll need to see it through to launch. That's where portions of the design document start seeing red ink applied to them. While obviously you can make one for less (EVE didn't cost that, but look at it and you can figure out why), the basic barrier to entry for a so-called 'AAA' MMO is 30 mil. (If you're interested, look at this Powerpoint presentation from NetDevil (Jumpgate, Auto Assault) and this post from someone who asserts 'a MMO' can be made for a million and this post by Brian Green (Meridian59) that breaks down costs and benefits a bit better)

 

Anyway, as I said in the other thread, I'll play Mortal if only because I play every MMO released in North America. Probably not at launch though (newbie MMO developers tend to have launch issues, tech based or otherwise) but who knows? I'm thinking there will be early 'sploits that'll exist to give people a head start (again, hi Darkfall!).

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You decide your fate and everyones path is different. IMO that's a true sandbox mmo.

 

In your vision of a sandbox mmo, is there room for a in-game tutorial ? Something that could last maybe an hour or two of gameplay to show a new players some very basic concepts (eg : doing this basic action will raise skill X, see that blue flower? here's how you can use it to change the color of your robe, etc.) A little something to show glimpse of the inifite possibilities. The first few hours within a game are very important and some people need guidance while facing the infinite.

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And developers LOVE players like you. You use little in the way of resources and you don't have a burning need to devour content like steroid addled termites. That isn't sarcastic at all and I truly hope you get a little further along in your planned design. I think the problem is going to be finding the $30+ mil you'll need to see it through to launch. That's where portions of the design document start seeing red ink applied to them. While obviously you can make one for less (EVE didn't cost that, but look at it and you can figure out why), the basic barrier to entry for a so-called 'AAA' MMO is 30 mil. (If you're interested, look at this Powerpoint presentation from NetDevil (Jumpgate, Auto Assault) and this post from someone who asserts 'a MMO' can be made for a million and this post by Brian Green (Meridian59) that breaks down costs and benefits a bit better)

 

The current incarnation, I tried to simplify it down so that I could stay under the 150MB limit for the Xbox Live Indie Development requirements. So I took all the overarching storyline, the world, the society and politics, and threw them out. I realized that there was one part I felt was, though not entirely revolutionary, was really what I'd designed the systems around -- an essentially randomized dungeon, like in that old standby Rogue. The system I ended up deciding on (though I'm still way, way in the planning phase) was a lot like the recent Call of Duty games. You design your class, talents (or whatever you want to call them. D&D calls them Feats, WoW calls them talents...) and equipment between games (or before joining a lobby) and then when you're ready you choose some basic parameters and then run a single instanced dungeon.

 

I tried to limit the scope enough that hopefully, $50 million won't be necessary; just a very long development cycle.

 

So the idea's kind of shifted from MMO to strict dungeon crawl, for the sake of simplicity and size. But since the original idea was just an intellectual exercise and the current idea is actually a project I'm spending real time on, I'd say that's fair.

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It also kinda hurts my opinion of this game personally that I love dungeons. My WoW endgame consisted entirely of dungeons and running in a big circle around Orgrimmar (or Dalaran) chatting with my guild. I guess that kinda makes me not that much of an MMO player.

 

Not at all, in fact one of the coolest features in Mortal Online are the dungeons (only a few so far) which kind of work the same as in most MMO's being for higher levels. The diffferences are they're not instanced meaning anyone can enter the same dungeon and either help or make difficult what you're doing. The great difference in a game like MO is, if there is some epic creature that is hiding at the end of a dungeon and you and your guild are lucky enough to kill it you will be the only ones. Epic monsters won't respawn every ten minutes like in themepark mmo's, once dead they stay dead.

 

Another awesome feature I forgot to mention is the day/night cycle with real darkness that you can hardly see in out in the wilderness. You need to equip a torch to give light so you can see, this applies to dungeons as well.

 

 

 

Which is why a true sandbox MMO cannot survive (much less thrive) in today's market.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you to a point. But once you get to talking to folks who do this kind of thing for a living, you find out the hardships involved with producing a true sandbox MMO. Without the political intrigue and depth, EVE would've died YEARS ago.

 

I'm not sure I completely agree with you on that (I agree on not thriving but think they can survive). Look at one of the biggest MMO's out there that people overlook.... Second Life. It's has a massive sub base who don't need nor want to be told what to do. They create them game and it continues to draw people in, I think a big reason is there aren't many other offerings like it.

 

Hate it or love it, today's typical MMO player needs the themepark. They don't have the sense of direction or ambition or goals that the 'ol skool UO' players took for granted. They need to be told what their goals are, what they should aim for, what's 'the best' since most of the time, they don't have the (play)time to figure it out for themselves. Theorycrafters (or 'min/maxers' in common parlance) are such an incredibly small minority, most players have no idea. However, it's usually those people who can petition the developers effectively because they speak the developers' language (hard numbers).

 

I agree but this game def isn't for your typical mmo player and if a space game like EVE can survive I think there's room for Mortal Online. Alot more people are into crafting then I think most mmo players or devs like to think. SWG's player base mass exodus after NGE showed that with post after post on the forums of people quitting for that exact reason.

 

I like the idea of Mortal but what I like even more is that their target numbers are so humble (100k subs is what they're planning for, which is a far cry from the 300k 'average' that has become the de-facto standard). I'd be surprised if they even got that many because there are way too many people who won't even look at a game with non-consensual PvP (and no, logging in to the game does not indicate consent to the general market). Those who do look at it will scream to the heavens (and the interwebz/series of tubes) that the game is one big gankfest, just because they got owned once or twice.

 

There are starter towns that are safe zones and a capital city in the game World that is the largest city I've ever seen in any game. They've made it so you could live out your entire game experience inside the main city, mining, tree chopping, raising skills, taming etc all within the walls and never in danger. Also a few big guilds have already popped up making it known they are "Good Guys" and will chase any known griefer or PK and punish them with death (Can't wait for the bounty system to be implemented).

 

I just hope Mortal doesn't flop (hi Darkfall). If it does, it'll be a long time before another game of its kind comes this far through the development pipe. Well, not including Planetside II, that is.

 

Completely agree, Darkfall was a disgrace though.

 

Anyway, as I said in the other thread, I'll play Mortal if only because I play every MMO released in North America. Probably not at launch though (newbie MMO developers tend to have launch issues, tech based or otherwise) but who knows? I'm thinking there will be early 'sploits that'll exist to give people a head start (again, hi Darkfall!).

 

Remi make sure you lemme know when you try, I'm in a strong US based guild that no one messes with so it's nice and safe to go do stuff anywhere you like. War declaration has been added and no one wants to start war with us so we haven't had much trouble.... yet :p

 

I'm glad you raised the exploits issue also as I totally agree with you on that, it's a game and community killer! Mortal Online devs definitely learnt from Darkfall's incopmetence. Even in BETA they had several different ways to detect and people using exploits and were coming down hard on those they caugt. A bunch of people who were banned for life just during final stages of BETA... after the devs had made several posts telling exploiters they were on to them and would be bringing down the ban hammer hard.

 

I hope you try it Remi, we can go slice some heads off .... did I mention when you kill someone you have the option to chop their head off and kick it around like a soccer ball :D

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Hate to be negative, but this game probably won't even net the typical 100,000 users that MMOs have been getting as of late. The fact that they're following the early Everquest system for doing raids is just bad.... Anyone that liked that system seriously had too much time on their hands... and while fighting for the spawn could be fun at times, it became tedious when you were obviously the better guild fighting for the spawn and the other guild(s) keep coming back and irritating the situation.

 

It's not a matter of sandbox or not sandbox... It's a matter of playing the game and still being able to have time to do other things. I can remember spending the weekends with my brother during our EQ days and we stood waiting for spawns numerous hours.

 

But again, it's really not going to matter. It'll probably net 50k users, stay afloat for a few months, and then take a big bite out of mediocrity as it sits down on the Misfit Mascot of MMOs bench.

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EQ wasn't really sandbox, that's for another day though.

 

There aren't "raids" in a sandbox mmo, not like the ones in typical WoW type mmos anyway. In EQ the reason all of those things happened with raids is because it wasn't true sandbox, a guild would kill an epic monster in the World and an hour later the thing would magically respawn :confused: Same as WoW, you can take an army of 50 (which is usually needed) to raid a town like Ogir, kill Thrall after downing all of his bodyguards and 15 minutes later there he is back on his thrown :confused: In Mortal Online the devs will be adding new monsters on a regular basis, each different and at the very least in different spots. Meaning if your guild downs an epic dragon (one example of a unique monster that will be out there) it's dead, gone you killed it and lay claim to downing it forever. Again using the dragon example, you will be able to loot dragon bones that will have unique bonuses and attributes to them as another bonus and incentive. That's only scraping the surface, there is alot to the game, and sandbox games in general... see EVE.

 

There aren't really quests either, you make your own quests and content. The aim of the game (if there is an overall aim for most) is territory control... just like in a real world environment setting of war and conflict. Houses, Guild Halls and towns (to name a few) can be built and destructed by opposing guilds. Griefing is believe it or not, not a major factor. Just like in EVE, which has huge potential for griefing it doesn't happen anywhere near as much as most games where it's encouraged far less (in some cases banned). The MO community is mature and are very dedicated to seeing it succeed, as I mentioned earlier the two biggest guilds are "Blue Guilds" (They are friendly and don't attack unless attacked) and have made it clear they will hunt and kill any griefers leaving their house in ashes. It's great for me because I like to pvp, I will be an outlaw and be skirmishing with those guilds nightly, balancing their good with some evil :D There's your content and end game right there, definitely beats grinding the same dungeon nightly for two weeks waiting for those boots with an extra 0.2 strength to drop :p

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The problem I forsee with one-time-kill bosses is the same problem that WoW had with their world bosses; namely, that your guild spends 6 hours or more rotating people in and out of the fight (I know Remi was talking about spending 18 hours once in EQ) and then some jerk-butt comes and loots it from another guild and reaps the rewards of your hard work. Apparently, though I was too low-level at the time, it was very common for that to happen with Doom Lord Kazzak and the guys for the "Legendary" weapons.

 

Secondly, I grinded the same dungeon afternoonly for my sword with an extra 38 defense. Jeez. Get it right. :p

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Noooo lol, sorry I'm probably not explaining it right. There aren't any levels and boss fights won't take hours with guild rotations. It's not Final Fantasy, it's Ultima Online is the best way I can put it :) There aren't any legendary weapons either.
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No, no. I was just saying that in WoW there were very few public world bosses, but whenever anyone got up the 40+ people together to do it, some yahoo always came along to poo in the apple pie; [EDIT: I'd worry about that happening with MO.]
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