1995: War of The Worlds

[BurningHamster]

Not yet. I'm still tweaking some stuff here and there, most notably I'm trying to improve American promotions in general as those of Japan (especially AJPW and NJPW) are far superior, and their wrestlers always dominated the end of the year top 100. At first, I was going to tweak down Japan... but come to think of it, it'll probably work better to tweak up USA instead. So that's what I'm currently tinkering with.

 

Yeah, that is one problem that is kind of annoying I found. I think the thing is that with Japan the top wrestlers are generally all good in the ring and work a very similar style therefore they have a higher average match grade (Misawa spends a lot of time wrestling Kawada, Kobashi etc and rarely has to wrestle an Ahmed Johnson type but most of the WWE/WCW main eventers had to work with a variety of opponents of varying styles and degrees of talent). So it kind of plays strangely in the end of year rankings.

[Hive]

Yeah, that is one problem that is kind of annoying I found. I think the thing is that with Japan the top wrestlers are generally all good in the ring and work a very similar style therefore they have a higher average match grade (Misawa spends a lot of time wrestling Kawada, Kobashi etc and rarely has to wrestle an Ahmed Johnson type but most of the WWE/WCW main eventers had to work with a variety of opponents of varying styles and degrees of talent). So it kind of plays strangely in the end of year rankings.

 

Yeah I think that's pretty spot on.

 

I'm sure we can arguably agree that the in-ring standard in Japan is higher than in USA. But does that necessarily mean the matches should be rated that much higher? No, because it's a different product and the audience expect different things.

 

The solution I'm trying right now is therefore increasing the performance skill of all (yes, all of them... *sigh*) America-based workers. I'm looking forward to seeing how that pans out. It means that I'll have to rate some people higher than I think they should be rated, but if it improves game balance I think it's worth it.

[Hive]

I have now increased the basic performance skills (basics, psychology, safety, consistency and selling) for all active and semi-active wrestlers based in USA. While it did not fully close the gap to Japan, it has shown a decent increase in the match performance in USA-based promotions. I don't think I can justify increasing their skills even further, so I'll have to think of something else if I am to fully close the gap...

 

I'm planning on doing the same to Mexican workers, as their promotions rarely manage a show rating above C+ or B-.

[Hive]

I'm going to release a new version of the mod soon. Here's a little teaser, a screenshot showing some of the changes I made to the skin in order to spice it up a bit:

 

http://www.slargos.se/slarfor/uploads/post-2-1302818478.jpg

[djthefunkchris]

Just a FYI, I believe the game is already set to "highlight" men over women (reading the old potential debate earlier in the thread). The fact that there are alot more men then women in the mod, makes it that way in and of itself as well.

 

The only way you could have it "accidentally" make a ton of women over, as compared to the men, is if you had more women in the mod then men... had alot of promotions where the women could learn the skills, have a strong bias towards women's wrestling (like Remi's mod), and alot of top level title's for women only. I mean, a whole lot of things would have to line up correctly for you to end up with more Main Event women then the norm.... For example, it's not unnormal for women to main event in small promotions. It would be however, very un-normal for women to Main Event in the WWE. TNA actually come close to doing it.... WWF had women fighting men there for a while (Chyna, Jacqueline), etc. However, unless they are going to get rubbed by your top people by getting win's, because the promotion is intergender, etc... IF the top title's aren't "Men Only" titles, etc. Alot of things have to go in a certain direction... As long as I've been playing, I've never seen anything like that happen in any game. I have been able to create pretty high cards with women, but once you get to National and beyond, it's just not really a good choice to try when you have so many males that could get there so much easier.

[Hive]

But outside of Japan, and even then only to a certain degree, should a promotion based heavily on women really get anywhere above national?

 

I mean, the best example of a succesful women's wrestling fed in USA is probably Shimmer - but would you rate them above regional/cult level? I wouldn't.

 

Yes, TNA has featured women rather succesfully from time to time... but they have had them main event exactly ONE time (apart from the all-female special) iirc, nothing more. In all big promotions, women are either midcarders or at the very most, upper midcarders. At least that's how I see it.

[djthefunkchris]

But outside of Japan, and even then only to a certain degree, should a promotion based heavily on women really get anywhere above national?

 

I mean, the best example of a succesful women's wrestling fed in USA is probably Shimmer - but would you rate them above regional/cult level? I wouldn't.

 

Yes, TNA has featured women rather succesfully from time to time... but they have had them main event exactly ONE time (apart from the all-female special) iirc, nothing more. In all big promotions, women are either midcarders or at the very most, upper midcarders. At least that's how I see it.

 

Have you seen any of these promotions get higher then that, without the aid of a "Human" booker? That's my point here. I just haven't seen it happen.... with the world dominated by "Male" promotions, even if they have a womans division (and most mods make it a division, not integrated, which might make a difference), and low card title's for them... and they ussually take the most popular women for themselves, leaving promotions like Shimmer without. As you pointed out, with the exception of Japan, I don't see that happening in just about any game, to include the default database. Never has for me, UNLESS I take one of those promotions over. Then yes, I can "win"... but the game is set up to let anyone win in just about any field if they understand the game enough... to include Hardcore and other promotion types that have never been above regional/cult.

 

I just wanted to point these things out, in case it wasn't something you were aware of. I only figure you might not be, because you have said over and over that bassically you do this to keep things more "realistic" so women won't ever dominate. I haven't played a mod (outside of Remi's or Bobinc's women specific mods) that has allowed that to happen, ever.... Unless of course you as a player take over the promotion. IF you set the human factor up to failure with this, your alienating a small percent of people that really get into women wrestling. It's not the normal player is going to run WWF and all of a sudden in 2010, going head to head with a promotion like Shimmer. It never happens.

 

I am one of those people that actually believes in some use of the Potential stat, and unlike other's, I think the historical mods using them is the perfect place for them to be encountered (as we know history, we don't know the future). So I'm not upset that you use potential. I'm not upset at all to be honest, was just browsing through and happened accross this, thought maybe I could enlighten a little, and if you chose one way or the other, at least you won't be deciding it on non-factor reasons. Me personally, would unly use the stat to ensure that certain legends have a chance to live up to their legacy, and "maybe" extreme failure's do likewise. Everyone in the middle ussually pans out (at least so far.... Hate early deaths and other random incidents that make them go one way or another out of the blue, but for the most part, things ussually work out).

[Hive]

Interesting thoughts. So what you're suggesting is basically that I set random potential for the workers I have as 'average' currently, maybe even including 'good' and 'low' as well...?

[djthefunkchris]

Interesting thoughts. So what you're suggesting is basically that I set random potential for the workers I have as 'average' currently, maybe even including 'good' and 'low' as well...?

 

Actually, that's totally up to you. However, if you want to look into the real reason alot of people don't like the use of Potential in historical mods (me not being one of them, just understanding them), it's because alot of people play under the "What IF" scenario.... What if they really pushed the Brooklyn Brawler hard, would he become more popular then HBK? Example: IF my favorite worker ever is someone like Dean Malenko, but the Mod I'm using has his potential set lower then I want him to be, I'm going to be turned off by that mod. Dean Malenko is a worker who had tons of skill, but didn't fullfill his potential (at least in my eyes) in real life. "What IF" I do everything in my power while playing the mod, to change that? How would I feel if his potential was set to Medium?

 

I mean, there are alot of wrestler's that everyone (or the majority of people) will agree, didn't stand a chance, and probably wouldn't be put off by them getting low or medium potential stats. There are those that just HAVE to make it as well, that everyone would probably agree with (Hogan, The Rock, Austin, etc.), that wouldn't mind seeing high potential for. It's those other's that are in the middle, that had fans... What if I pushed Rocky Johnson (Not Dwayne) to the moon? Could he make it? If the potential isn't set, I don't know unless I try..... so I would try. IF the potential is set to low, then I know his chances aren't very good, and there goes my scenario.

 

IF you look in the default database (which I'm sure you have), and simmed a good long ways through it, your going to see that women promotions never get big like SWF or TCW, etc. They stay around the same size, sometimes going up and back down, or down and back up, but never really make it. You can even take SWF or TCW, change all their titles to women, make the promotions mainly women's type promotions (IN TCW and SWF have it all women, with the Main title's being Women's, ... bassically reverse the genders on the titles). You will see that neither promotion will actually stay where they are for very long. So the need to "Keep the women realistic" isn't really a worry, is all I'm really saying.

 

NOTE: IF you do this little scenario, you will see lots of great things for other promotions happen though, which is pretty cool in and of itself.

[Hive]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, I'll consider what you've said. If (and that's a big IF) I do decide to change potentials for the medium-ranged workers however, it won't be in time for the next release. But I'll certainly consider it.

[djthefunkchris]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, I'll consider what you've said. If (and that's a big IF) I do decide to change potentials for the medium-ranged workers however, it won't be in time for the next release. But I'll certainly consider it.

 

I like historical mods, hate to see any not get playtime because of something like Potentials is all. I don't have a problem with it, because I look at it more like a game I think.... although I do try to emmerce myself into the games I play. I just don't ever think of RW (for the most part) mods much differently then if I were playing a C-Verse game. I use what I have to try to accomplish my goals, and if that means Malenko's best is being a jobber for me, then so be it. However, I know that other's like to try to get their favorite's over, see if they can make them the hugest star in the world, etc... and sometimes their favorites are very surprising.

[Jaysin]

I like historical mods, hate to see any not get playtime because of something like Potentials is all. I don't have a problem with it, because I look at it more like a game I think.... although I do try to emmerce myself into the games I play. I just don't ever think of RW (for the most part) mods much differently then if I were playing a C-Verse game. I use what I have to try to accomplish my goals, and if that means Malenko's best is being a jobber for me, then so be it. However, I know that other's like to try to get their favorite's over, see if they can make them the hugest star in the world, etc... and sometimes their favorites are very surprising.

 

Glacier, Wrath, and Mortis/Kanyon are some of my obscure WCW faves so I believe you're right.

[Hive]

I use what I have to try to accomplish my goals, and if that means Malenko's best is being a jobber for me, then so be it.

 

Just FYI, Malenko has 'very good' potential in my mod.

[djthefunkchris]

Glacier, Wrath, and Mortis/Kanyon are some of my obscure WCW faves so I believe you're right.

 

And really, that's my point accross the board. You never know who someone might like (or dislike for that matter), and there are alot of guys that play that don't post much at all. Alot of people would rather just not post, then to say something negative about any mod or mod-maker, maybe not finding the right words/afraid to offend.

 

I figured I'd weigh in on it, because I felt I wouldn't offend anyone at all. I'm a much bigger fan of historic mods (no matter how far back you go, but the further the better for me) then most are I think (there are some people moreso a fan then me, and moreso a fan of this era then me, but I mean in general). So hopefully I come across as someone that just would like to see more people play it, rather then a complainer, as that's my intention here.

 

The physical stats of most women are going to be alot lower then men (in general, talking about physical strength and athleticism) when Mod-Maker's make these mods. The stats help keep the mod in check more then anything else. As I'm sure everyone knows by now, how important physical stats are for improving everything else.

[djthefunkchris]

Just FYI, Malenko has 'very good' potential in my mod.

 

I grabbed a name out of the sky (well, that I'm actually a fan of, but there are many that I felt never fullfilled their potential). I might have the exact same "tastes" as you, and would mean the MOD absolutely rocks for me, but other's might feel differently.

[Hive]

And really, that's my point accross the board. You never know who someone might like (or dislike for that matter), and there are alot of guys that play that don't post much at all. Alot of people would rather just not post, then to say something negative about any mod or mod-maker, maybe not finding the right words/afraid to offend.

 

I figured I'd weigh in on it, because I felt I wouldn't offend anyone at all. I'm a much bigger fan of historic mods (no matter how far back you go, but the further the better for me) then most are I think (there are some people moreso a fan then me, and moreso a fan of this era then me, but I mean in general). So hopefully I come across as someone that just would like to see more people play it, rather then a complainer, as that's my intention here.

 

The physical stats of most women are going to be alot lower then men (in general, talking about physical strength and athleticism) when Mod-Maker's make these mods. The stats help keep the mod in check more then anything else. As I'm sure everyone knows by now, how important physical stats are for improving everything else.

 

I'm not offended in any way, I deeply appreciate constructive critisicm and suggestions.

 

But if someone just really really likes pushing an obscure worker with low potential to the top, it's thankfully really easy just to edit that themselves. So I hope my stringent approach to potentials isn't ruining too much fun for anyone.

[Hive]

I grabbed a name out of the sky (well, that I'm actually a fan of, but there are many that I felt never fullfilled their potential). I might have the exact same "tastes" as you, and would mean the MOD absolutely rocks for me, but other's might feel differently.

 

Yeah I get what you mean, I just wanted to point out that no Malenko-lovers should fear my mod.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah I get what you mean, I just wanted to point out that no Malenko-lovers should fear my mod.

 

I laughed out loud on the first post. I appreciate your mod, and I honestly like that someone took the Potential stat and used it to it's fullest. Honestly, that alone is alot of work (filling out yet another stat). So yeah, won't be affecting my games.

 

One thing that alot of mods forget though, is the fact that alot of players that don't mod, don't like to touch anything in the editor, as they feel it's "cheating". I wouldn't feel it's cheating to set someone to random, but other's might. Might be something to throw in the first post to ease some minds.

 

Honestly, it might not be a bad idea to ask for Potential to be something we can edit in mass.... Making it easier for people that don't want it in their games, to just set it all to random.

[Hive]

Honestly, it might not be a bad idea to ask for Potential to be something we can edit in mass.... Making it easier for people that don't want it in their games, to just set it all to random.

 

Yes, I think such a feature would solve many headaches.

[Genadi]

Yes, I think such a feature would solve many headaches.

 

I've made this suggestion in the suggestion forum. Would be great if it were a preference option at the start, to either play with Potential on or off.

 

I've decided for my mods after discussion with people who've played them alot, I don't set potentials. I agree completely with djthefunk about the advantages especially in historical mods but I still don't use them because I think it's far worse for people who don't like potentials to have them on as opposed to people who do like them but they're off. I should explain that better but it's really late here

[denzil85]

Yes, I think such a feature would solve many headaches.

 

It would probably also cause a few more as no doubt a minority will complain about something that results from it.

[Hive]

Version 1.01 is out now!

 

...along with an updated pic pack and new skin. Download link in first post.

 

I apologize in advance for using Megaupload, but I don't know any better place to upload the mod, as I lost access to the server I previously used. Suggestions for something better than Megaupload are more than welcome!

[Johnny Fenoli]

why are they exe files?

[Hive]

why are they exe files?

 

Because someone who had no program to open *.rar files once asked me for something else, and I then figured that a self-extracting archive would work for everyone.

 

I personally prefer an ordinary *.rar file though.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Because someone who had no program to open *.rar files once asked me for something else, and I then figured that a self-extracting archive would work for everyone.

 

I personally prefer an ordinary *.rar file though.

 

it's nothing personal, because I "know you" and you're a long time member, but I'm scared to download and open exe files.