Jump to content

My take on TEW and Mods...And how expansions could work


Guest Carringtonbanks

Recommended Posts

Guest Carringtonbanks

I don't know if people will agree with me or not, but it seems mods that are made to purposely simulate EXACTLY what happened at a certain era is kinda, ya know, lame.

 

I'm just too much in love with the default database I guess. I mean its original, THO, THO, I wish some of the tools provided by the editor were use more extensively for events in the Cornellverse default game(I.E. more narratives for surprises as you play the game).

 

I always play TEW from the standpoint of "okay, whats new, what will Adam surprise me with next"....not the "I have no friends so let me use my imagination" standpoint of having to make ur own narratives, and kinda make the game work in your brain.

 

This is why I loved the default storylines that were in some promotions like TCW. I just like learning something new, and experience a storyline that I further graph into my own. Example, the Sam Keith vs Rocky Golden storyline that came with the game, it made me feel like okay, I'm the new booker, so how I am going to work these current storylines, and learn this world to be sucessful. And if you wanted to know, I had Rocky Golden winning by land slides (due 2 age) till Greg Gauge and Matthew Keith debuted and helped their dad win the World Championship.

 

That kind of thing is what makes this game to me, and it will appeal 2 more people if it was treat more so as a game, other than JUST a simulation. Right now we basically have people waitin for real world patches to SIMULATE real life, and its understandable because the default database hasn't lived up to its TRUE potentional.

 

A GAME should be made out of the default database, and it shouldn't be an after thought, because the pieces that were add this year made me feel like I'm interacting in a new world that I have to learn, but this experiences can be made way better on INITIAL approach if the storyline, and happenings were professionally worked out by the creator himself, (pre-determined ERAs for the default game we can experience, OMG DID THAT JUST HAPPEN narratives, a more distinct description of family members and meaning behind their relationship "A father and Son combo and Brother/Brother combo will gain more overness and appeal that just a "relationship" combo, of like cousins, or Uncle Nephew...).

 

Most of these things are things that can be patched into the game or updated with a database update. I think there should be a continual stream of new content with the EXISTING mod tools made from the CREATOR himself, with his brilliant mind to keep us playing.

 

I mean its just fair, this game cost alot of money for what the community has to put into it themselves to keep it popular....I think us Cornellverse junkies need more crack in our veins atleast on a monthly basis..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I agree with the overall tone of your post, I can only speak for myself and basically, the Cornellverse isn't for me simply for the fact that in a sports management sim, I want to simulate real life. Same for Football Manager (by Sega), which I am a huge fan of. Actually that game is a good comparison - it also doesn't come loaded with as rich a license as the EA Sports manager does, and what do people do? They download and use real life names and pics. Same for Pro Evolution Soccer. Same for a LOT of games which lack licenses. Remember back in the EWR days? The game Adam made before was free so it was all real life, no Cornellverse back then, so I am pretty sure that licensing/copyrights were at least one of the reasons that the Cornellverse was even made for TEW.

 

Moving on from that, I absolutely agree that TEW should feel more like a game. I mean it IS a game, and in a mainly text based sim you'll ofc need to use your imagination a lot, but I would just simply like the game to give me more ... well, let me give an example:

 

I will use gimmicks for my example. Let's say I assign some dude the gimmick of red rooster. How do and did people in real life, at least the sane fans, react to the gimmick? With ridicule at the best of times. Now, in the game as is, I can create that gimmick, give it a low heel and face rating and fans will crap all over it.

 

At the same time however, the game itself does not "know" what the gimmick actually IS (besides gimmicky), and so I have to go all out on my imagination of what is happening in the arena when the poor guy steps out of the curtain. Sure, imagination is needed for text based games, but this is imagination on the level of pen and paper rpgs tbh. It doesn't make the game BAD, not at all, what I am saying is ... the game could be so much more, if more things were handled by the game, if the game "knew" more about what is actually happening. This applies to gimmicks, angles in particular imo, and a bunch of other stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, basically, you don't the idea of modding in the first place?

 

Anyways, I think the mods set in specific eras are supposed to say something like, "What would YOU do with (insert promotion here) during the (insert era here)?", not "Simulate the (insert era here) EXACTLY as it happened IRL!"

 

 

 

 

If you don't like narratives, then just go in the data and delete 'em all. Just like if you don't like bios. Go in the dang data and delete 'em all!

 

 

 

I kinda agree with Harmor, but I am having extreme fun with WWF 2001 as Don King. Yep, I said it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if people will agree with me or not, but it seems mods that are made to purposely simulate EXACTLY what happened at a certain era is kinda, ya know, lame.

 

I'm not sure I agree with everything here but I've been thinking about real world mods and why I find them to be, for the most part, unplayable.

 

Adam has approached the game world as a game and as a result he makes it fun to play different promotions: there's variety between products and there's usually available talent that works to the advantages of your specific product. You can play a game as TCW or SWF and poach impressive talents from smaller promotions. You can play as a smaller promotion and choose from a variety of potentially great stars to build your small promotion around. There's something for everything: old school, territory style wrestling, 1980's style WWF, workrate-based Canadian wrestling, several Japanese promotions at different levels, 3 different women's promotions, and a thriving business in Australia. That's a lot of options.

 

In a real world mod it's usually designed with WWE (or WWF depending on the era) and one other competitor in mind, whether it be TNA, WCW, or NWA. And 90% of the talent will be in those two promotions. This means it's significantly less fun to play as a small promotion, and, because of the desire to stay "realistic," you've got a lot less options to choose from. While there are in reality a decent number of wrestling promotions, only one is really established at an international level (TNA lacks the attendance numbers to be national), and the vast majority would be local or small sized.

 

But even that would be fine if there was a balance of workers at every level to make even small promotions fun and challenging. But instead, in the interests of "realism," mod-makers are ridiculously harsh in giving out stats, which means your low-level promotion can't have any talent unless it's a guy that everyone knows will be a main eventer in the WWE one day and you're just getting him over before a big promotion takes him.

 

Mod-makers seem to have this forwards-looking ipso facto attitude when it comes to rating workers. "Oh, so and so never became a huge name, so they must not have had good stats." But it seems like a mod should focus on what could have been, not what actually happens.

 

As an example, a mod I've been balancing against my own data gave Sean O'Haire a 76 for star quality. Obviously, he never became a household name, so his star quality in the mod makes him look like a career midcarder. To me, this is not how mod-makers should work. They should look at where a worker was at the time the mod is set in and compare it against everyone else in the world at the time: when Sean O'Haire came into the business he was seen as a "can't miss" prospect and future world champ, not a career-midcarder.

 

Even more baffling is when they leave stats way too low even when a worker actually does show great potential by becoming a big name or really great at a given stat. Just because a worker doesn't talk every night doesn't mean they don't have any mic skills: just because they don't mat wrestle in a mainstream product doesn't mean they should have a zero for mat wrestling. Christian Cage shouldn't have terrible charisma in a 1999 mod just because he wasn't on TV every week playing the kazoo just yet: he clearly had the potential, there just wasn't a spot for him until 2000.

 

If you actually gave workers the stats they deserved instead of locking everyone into into stats that reflect what really happened, you can create a lot more variety within the mod and create a world that could develop similarly to the way ours did but then again, might turn out completely different.

 

This would also mean mods that are fun to play even for small promotions, because it would allow you to play something other than ROH and still have shows that didn't feel unbearably awful.

 

All of this stuff: the lack of variety in what promotions you can play, the fact that so much of the talent is locked into a couple of promotions, the fact that mod-makers make stats way too low, all of it makes the real world far less fun for me. Which is a shame, because I love the idea of alternate history games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know where to start.....

 

All of this stuff: the lack of variety in what promotions you can play, the fact that so much of the talent is locked into a couple of promotions, the fact that mod-makers make stats way too low, all of it makes the real world far less fun for me. Which is a shame, because I love the idea of alternate history games.

 

I completely agree with this. I'd like to add that the main reason I cannot agree with Harmor's line of thinking (and those like him) is that if I was looking to simulate reality, I wouldn't even play (since reality freakin' SUCKS with regard to my preferred segment of wrestling). I can understand it though for people who love them some WWE or TNA but I'd take a guess and say people who love NJPW/AJPW/NOAH probably wouldn't since those promotions are often given short shrift.

 

The main thing about the OP that made me giggle was the very idea of monthly database updates. Given the fact that in order to experience those new additions, you'd have to start a brand new game, that would cut the number of long term games down significantly. I'm sure people like LoganRodzen and others who are well into the 2020s would love having to start from scratch every month because some world changing event was added in the update. One of the coolest things about TEW is that if you want something earth shattering added, you can do it yourself. Heck, there are even people (jhd1, I think?) who have done narrative images (there's at least one pack released so far).

 

And seriously, knowing firsthand how much work has gone into the default database, I'm almost offended for someone to state or even imply that it's an afterthought. It's insulting. From the renders (and all the alts) to the bios to people adding entirely new dimensions to existing characters, that doesn't strike me as an afterthought. I'll just agree to disagree before I get myself into trouble. Let's just say I don't agree with "the world needs to change for EVERYONE monthly, whether they like it or not!" mindset. Not everyone wants an Etch-A-Sketch world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is tremendous potential for playing real world games as a small promotion, or at least there could be if someone was willing to take the time to add in all the small promotions and a significant number of lesser known workers.

 

Since I don't see that happening, I have gotten into modding McD's database myself, using the TEW2005 real world mods that have gotten huge since becoming freeware as a reference point. It only takes about two minutes to create a worker in 2010 when just copying over the stats from 2005.

 

The game is whatever you make it...thus why we have the editor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also do mod-makers look at the C-Verse when they make these stats? I just don't understand how mods STILL stubbornly refuse to give absolutely any female wrestler stats that are at least competitive with male wrestlers? It's just baffling when reading a TNA mod and seeing the knockouts match be by FAR the worst thing on the card, considering for about a year that was about the opposite of the truth. Also I think there's a lot of confusion about what a lot of the stats actually represent. When a guy uses standing ranas as a transition move and works well with Owen Hart, he probably has better aerial skills than a 5.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Remi when it comes to monthly updates because that is (this is all imo ofc) a very bad idea, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. But the beauty of the game is also that if you don't agree with the stats given to workers in a real life mod, you can alter them yourself. I didn't say that the lack of licensing was the only reason for Adam to think up the Cornellverse btw, but one of the reasons, because the alternative to making the Cornellverse for TEW would have been to not include any database in the release version for the lack of a license.

 

When I say I cannot get into the CV I don't mean its quality. I mean the sheer fact that it is fictional which is putting me off. I've always been like that in that regard, with any game that simulates a sport/whatever taking place in real life - to me, it can't be using fictional characters because that is a tad too crude for me, too ... unreal, so to speak. Because no matter the rich backgrounds etc, they do not exist, while in the game they play actually existing football, are pro wrestlers when pro wrestling exists in real life ... I just don't want to play with an alternative, fictional universe. If I want that, I go and play Mass Effect or Dragon Age. That is my reason and it is absolutely not quality related as I wanted to make clear that I am not bashing Adam's effort on creating the CV, or any modders efforts on creating their own fictional databases, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a lot of work goes into that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the above assumptions you've made would quickly fade if you ever made a RW mod yourself I'd imagine.

 

Would people please stop claiming to be able to read mod makers minds, it's extremely pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

 

I'm working on a mod right now.

One of the things I'm doing to address some of the problems I see in mods is comparing talent distribution against the C-Verse. I break down the percentages of talent at any given stat and multiply it by the active workers in my database, and if I get a significant deviation I'll look for places to boost or drop stats to encourage better game balance.

 

Tell me what you disagree with and we can talk about it like rational adults. Or we can just do this all day: :rolleyes: Also please direct me to the part where I said anything about reading minds or what mod-makers think? I'm criticizing output, not mental state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm working on a mod right now. Tell me what you disagree with and we can talk about it like rational adults. Or we can just do this all day: :rolleyes:

 

I'm working on a mod right now. Tell me what you disagree with and we can talk about it like rational adults. Or we can just do this all day: :rolleyes:

 

What I disagree with? I made that pretty clear..

Would people please stop claiming to be able to read mod makers minds, it's extremely pretentious.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I disagree with? I made that pretty clear..

 

Oh, so you quote my entire post and disagree with something I didn't say? Color me confused. Again, do you want a dialogue, or do you want to be defensive about things I didn't say that weren't directed at you? Your call I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm over arguing with you over mods lazorbeak, it's if nothing else pointless. But to answer your first question....

 

Oh, so you quote my entire post and disagree with something I didn't say?

 

 

In a real world mod it's usually designed with WWE (or WWF depending on the era) and one other competitor in mind....

 

because of the desire to stay "realistic,"...

 

But instead, in the interests of "realism," mod-makers are ridiculously harsh in giving out stats...

 

Mod-makers seem to have this forwards-looking ipso facto attitude when it comes to rating workers. "Oh, so and so never became a huge name, so they must not have had good stats."...

 

If you actually gave workers the stats they deserved instead of locking everyone into into stats that reflect what really happened...

 

Again, do you want a dialogue, or do you want to be defensive about things I didn't say that weren't directed at you?

 

Who's getting defensive? You said some things I think are bogus and called you on it, I didn't think any of it was aimed at me. Sorry next time I'll let you continue with your ever so humble analysis of what mod makers are thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I can 'splain it any better, I quoted your very own words above, you replied to every part of my post except that. You're either choosing to ignore it or simply acting evasive, I'm not sure and honestly don't care :) Short of getting you on vent and reading out loud to you your own words I'm not sure it can be made clearer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I can 'splain it any better, I quoted your very own words above, you replied to every part of my post except that. You're either choosing to ignore it or simply acting evasive, I'm not sure and honestly don't care :) Short of getting you on vent and reading out loud to you your own words I'm not sure it can be made clearer.

 

Clearly it can be made clearer, because you're saying this:

 

Would people please stop claiming to be able to read mod makers minds, it's extremely pretentious.

 

Something I didn't ****ing say. So what, exactly, is your real issue, with things that I actually said? Nowhere do I claim to read mod makers minds, so complaining about it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clearly it can be made clearer, because you're saying this:

 

Something I didn't ****ing say. So what, exactly, is your real issue, with things that I actually said?

 

 

In a real world mod it's usually designed with WWE (or WWF depending on the era) and one other competitor in mind....

 

because of the desire to stay "realistic,"...

 

But instead, in the interests of "realism," mod-makers are ridiculously harsh in giving out stats...

 

Mod-makers seem to have this forwards-looking ipso facto attitude when it comes to rating workers. "Oh, so and so never became a huge name, so they must not have had good stats."...

 

If you actually gave workers the stats they deserved instead of locking everyone into into stats that reflect what really happened...

 

I don't have any issue with any ciriticism of any mods but when you start talking about mod makers intentions or desire's etc. it's just plain stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any issue with any ciriticism of any mods but when you start talking about mod makers intentions or desire's etc. it's just plain stupid.

 

Again, I'm not reading anyone's minds here. Nowhere did I say I was: "Mod-makers seem to have" could not more clearly be a statement of impression on my part, not establishing someone else's intent. Saying something "usually" is designed with 2 promotions in mind is both general and accurate based on my experience playing and making mods. I'm not judging mod-makers intentions or desires at all: I'm looking at data and interpreting it. If you don't agree with my interpretation, fine, tell me why you don't agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do often hear people making claims on why a mod may be set up certain ways and 99% of the time it's incorrect. I threw you into that group and I appologise seeing as that wasn't your intention. I jumped the gun and I say to you again, sorry.

 

I do think your interpretation is wrong with some mods and am happy to chat to you over PM or whatever anytime to explain what I mean.

 

Good luck with your mod LB, let me know if the team can be of any assistance. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the above assumptions you've made would quickly fade if you ever made a RW mod yourself I'd imagine.

 

Would people please stop claiming to be able to read mod makers minds, it's extremely pretentious. :rolleyes:

 

I love how it seems some cornelleverse purists seem to be obsessed with every now and then pointing out how BAD EVERY MOD EVER MADE IS, and people who dont play the defaultverse just arnt "creative" or "talented" enough.

 

Never hear people really bash the defaultverse outside of saying "I play RW mods because I just cant get into it".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how it seems some cornelleverse purists seem to be obsessed with every now and then pointing out how BAD EVERY MOD EVER MADE IS, and people who dont play the defaultverse just arnt "creative" or "talented" enough.

 

Never hear people really bash the defaultverse outside of saying "I play RW mods because I just cant get into it".

 

Hey, I gave a few reasons why I don't play CV earlier in the thread :D ... seriously though, I don't feel the need to bash the CV, and whoever feels entitled to bash RW mods - hell, let them do so. Those who enjoy those real life mods (including but not limited to your MCD mod btw ^^) won't enjoy it any less just because of some bashing. I know I don't. People enjoy the CV too and I highly doubt they'll give a rat's BEEP (^^) for my reasons not to enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the need to bash mods or people playing mods at all. These mods doesn't come with the game, they are optional to download and free of charge. You don't like them? Stick to the default database. It's fair enough to not care for RW mods, but you really have no business critisizing their existance.

 

If me and my neighbour both buy a newspaper, it's really not my business to critisize him if he choose to wear it as a hat instead of reading all articles just because I might do so myself. His money, his choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how it seems some cornelleverse purists seem to be obsessed with every now and then pointing out how BAD EVERY MOD EVER MADE IS, and people who dont play the defaultverse just arnt "creative" or "talented" enough.

 

Never hear people really bash the defaultverse outside of saying "I play RW mods because I just cant get into it".

 

I don't think anyone bashed the existence of real world mods, it was the often wildly varying levels of quality. I'm somewhat of a C-Verse purist but I also play your mod and bobinc's mod and Genadi's mods and so forth.

 

I don't get the need to bash mods or people playing mods at all. These mods doesn't come with the game, they are optional to download and free of charge. You don't like them? Stick to the default database. It's fair enough to not care for RW mods, but you really have no business critisizing their existance.

 

Again, besides the little back and forth between Genadi and lazorbeak, I don't see anyone bashing people who use mods or the mods themselves. I see people lamenting the fact that many mods leave out a lot of workers or have unbalanced stats or omit large areas of the world or what-have-you. My point was, real world mods in their current form are a smorgasbord of awesome if you want to play WWE or TNA (or WCW, with Genadi's historical mods) but for most everything else, you have basically one choice: MrCanada's. I know why that is, but that doesn't eliminate the lament.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...