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The Randy Orton Thread


Beeker

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Can my good people and posters of EWB please weigh with their thoughts of the aforementioned Randy Orton? I have my opinions but I'd like to let others give their opinions before I state mine. Chances are they'll be different from a lot of you.

 

What do you like? Dislike? Find appealing? Find appalling? About this third generation superstar.

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1. He's got the charisma of a toaster oven... and not even a particularly charismatic toaster oven.

 

2. He is a solid in-ring worker.

 

3. He plays his character well, even if I'm not particularly fond of said character... but hey, it's something.

 

4. Walking super duper slow at all times is awesome.

 

5. He looks like a douchebag.

 

 

Overall, eh... I've never been able to really like Orton. As a heel, he lacked the ability to get the crowd to hate him through interviews and he isn't some unstoppable monster, which means he's pretty limited at what he can do (random attacks, cheating), and that's usually best with a worker who can work the audience with the microphone. As a face... he still looks slimy, hard to buy into him. The only real difference is who he randomly attacks.

 

I think Orton deseres to be in the WWE and he has some talent, but I've yet to be able to buy him as a credible main eventer. Even in THIS day and age, there's far better guys around him. Sheamus is a vastly superior heel in my mind. He's borderline-monster sized, and (partially thanks to the accent) he is capable of making you want to see him slapped on the microphone.

 

I think Sheamus needs his own thread.

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Shouldn't his be in the www thread?

 

 

Anyway, I like Orton. Not a great technical wrestler, but good psychology., knows how to tell a match. Some say he's a slow worker, but slow methodical brawling punctuated with quick flash moves like the powerslam, backbreaker, and of course rko play off that style.

 

I think he's better as a psychopath heel, but they lack for faces at the moment and the crowds reaction certainly has him over as a tweener ala Austin.

 

Pretty good on the promo but not the best. Good use of his inate menace to make his promo's more impactful than they strictly should be.

 

 

Not in my top ten workers of all time or anything, but I he's solid. Pg era holds his potential down, he could be great as a true do anything pyscho heel, but with the attitude era dead and buired doesn't look like heel get the chance

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Shouldn't his be in the www thread?

 

 

I guess it could be folded into the WWE thread except, it would get buried quickly and this is a discussion (hopefully) focused on an individual. I'm not trying to clutter the boards but there is something about Orton that's inexplicable to me and I'm hoping people like yourself and Comradebot can illuminate me before I give my impressions of Orton.

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I like Orton, but I understand the schtick he gets. I won't blame anybody if they don't like his Viperistic twitching or his RKO-stalking. It's very dividing.

 

I just think he was on top of his game in 2009. Storyline with Triple H/the McMahons, when he punted Shane garnering massive heat, and then RKOed Steph mere seconds after.. I felt that slight goosebump you feel when watching old memorable huge-moment AE videos. Maybe it was all Triple H's doing you could say, as he goes out of his way to create stars sometimes.

 

But I enjoyed his first face run which started earlier in the year. He still had the anti-hero neutral feel to him, as opposed to now where he's just full-fledged face, and an over one at that. I haven't turned against him yet, but they better do something worth a damn with him soon.

 

Also, I hated the old Orton. The 2004-2005 one. I think his face run made me sour on him for a long time. Lame ****y grin, and his stuttering didn't help. Also his being a jackhole backstage and suspensions were constant leverage I was using on the boards for argument's sake/hoping that he'd get released in the near future. But he stuck to his guns and I guess he started taking things seriously.

 

I think what made me start liking him was the Age of Orton. It was the first lengthy heel run we had seen in a while, and where he won it(No Mercy 07) was nothing short of a memorable event. Granted, I didn't like Cody or Ted but I liked what Legacy as a whole brought to the table, though at times I disliked WWE's haphazardness on his cowardice level. Anyway, overall I think he's a solid worker. With all these years left in him, he has places to go.

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I second that his best heel work was the trips fued last year. Pg ruined the Blowoff there too, great build up, extremely lame pg last match.

 

"triple h hates this man, he hunted him down in his home for burtily assting his wife.....but he will of course not resort to any non-pg violence once he finally gets his hands on him"

 

Normally I can stomach pg, but that fued was so visceral and personal it deserved a much better ending than that.

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Personally I think he is awesome. The guy is good in the ring, decent on the mic, and has a good look. He has good timing. I am just not big on his face character and this whole twitching thing. I really liked him as the Evolution Randy. Every compares him to Stone Cold these days but i think he is more like a face HHH after he came back from his quad injury.
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I like Orton... but something about him never seems to quite work the way it should... Its like the pieces of greatness are there but they never quite get pulled together just right for that greatness to be realized...

 

Part of it is the slow, measured promos. I understand the intent and the approach, and while it can make for some good promos... the lack of emotion (except for the occassional outburst) seems to keep them from being actually great...

 

As for the ring work... I like but cannot love. For such an athlete and skilled worker, he seems like he's moving in slow motion too often. I've seen a few of his matches where I've felt like I watching a big over-muscled bear of a wrestler from the 80s who could barely move trying to work a match... but its not. The slow and methodical approach just seems to mediate things... Keeps what could be great from being great.

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I absolutely hated Orton and his rest holds and his gay pornstar look early in his career. It wasn't until more recently when I noticed he had stopped being horribly sloppy/boring and developed a bit of intensity and was booting people in the head that I thought he was alright.

 

That really highlighted the fact to me that intensity is almost non-existant in WWE these days.

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I don't really enjoy his singles matches, but as a guy in a Rumble or MitB I mark out for him. I really dig the whole viper-freak-out-punch-the-mat-PUNT stuff. The meat & potatoes of his matches, not so much.

 

Haven't been a fan for most of his career, but I remember the Randy Orton Injury Updates being awesome. I was in awe.

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Randy Orton is king of all and I will not be convinced otherwise. He poses, he destroys people whether they're good or bad and he plays his character superbly. He's also a real stickler for quality and things going right in the ring, and I respect that.
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Orton is probably the best worker in the country right now. Great look, excellent facial expressions in the ring, solid storytelling ability, he's the total package. Is he the greatest promo guy ever? No, but he's very good at getting his character across in his promos and he has really improved by leaps and bounds from where he was 8 years ago. He's a perfectionist with a good head for what works and what doesn't for his character, and it shows on a weekly basis.

 

And as easy as Steve Austin comparisons are, how about somebody dig a little deeper and realize his "too bad-ass crazy to boo" character is basically just Jake the Snake 2010. Granted Jake had better promo abilities, but Orton has a significantly better look.

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Orton is probably the best worker in the country right now.

 

You're joking right? I have to assume you're joking. I wouldn't even put him as the best worker on Raw, likely not even in the top 10.

 

Great look, excellent facial expressions in the ring, solid storytelling ability, he's the total package.

 

Ok, I'll grant you he has a distinctive look. I'll even concede that to some it might be great. His facial expressions look like a mildly excited Freddy Prinze Jr. who only has one expression. Orton's expression... mildly to definitely confused. He has no story telling ability to me at all. I'm not sure he can read. I think he can be carried but he never does the heavy lifting in any storyline he's a part of.

 

He is the total package, if by that you mean he is this generation's Lex Luger.

 

Is he the greatest promo guy ever? No, but he's very good at getting his character across in his promos and he has really improved by leaps and bounds from where he was 8 years ago. He's a perfectionist with a good head for what works and what doesn't for his character, and it shows on a weekly basis.

 

Uh, he can't cut a promo to save his life. He talks so... slowly... you... can... hear the cogs in his mind ticking over trying to remember the right word or what he's supposed to be talking about. He also sounds like he's got a mouthful of marbles and has just been to the dentist and riddled with novocaine. I could out promo Orton without having seen a script and just been giving a 2 line synopsis of what I'm supposed to talk on. He's a perfectionist? Really? I think he's a whiny, spoilt douchetard of a midcarder who received a god push for all the wrong reasons.

 

And as easy as Steve Austin comparisons are, how about somebody dig a little deeper and realize his "too bad-ass crazy to boo" character is basically just Jake the Snake 2010. Granted Jake had better promo abilities, but Orton has a significantly better look.

 

Do NOT insult the legend that is Jake the Snake Roberts!

I think your Lex Luger comparison is far more accurate. Over hyped, over pushed, under talented.

 

Orton peaked with his RNN updates; and I realize why. He's a career midcarder WAY over his head. Those RNN updates were pretaped so he could do 30 of them to get 20 seconds of usable material.

 

Let's look at Orton's 'legacy.'

- Evolution was supposed to make him into a solid main event player... but he botched and bobbled his opportunity so badly that Batista shone through and received that Wrestlemania rub.

- Mick Foley couldn't make him; Mick Foley who helped make Triple H, the Rock and Edge.

- Legacy proved he could lead a stable to water, but couldn't make them drink. And really, have Rhodes or DiBiase benefited from Legacy?

 

The thing is though, I understand why he received the push he did and how he remains at the top. He got the God Push because Vince was surly that Lesnar left and he wanted someone younger as the youngest ever. Enter Orton. He's got the last name (otherwise he'd be Mark Jindrak or Lance Storm - midcarder at best) and he's got a look.

 

So that's how he got to the top. Now, how does he stay there? Well, he's apparently really easy to work with. Meaning he lets his opponents look great and works soft (so no injuries from him) and opponents get to cut the memorable promos, not him (because he's incapable.) Guys like working his with because they'll shine and he won't but his uber-push keeps him relevant?

 

Look at the last few weeks on Raw, Chris Jericho cut a promo for Orton, and last week Lawler did.

 

Also, any wrestler who can separate their shoulder punching the mat as they 'viper stalk' their victim... is only mockable by me.

 

Randy Orton - ratings death and the embodiment of mediocracy - which is perfect for how bland the WWE has become.

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I hate to say this, but it leads from Jake Roberts, to Steve Austin, then to Randy Orton. Does Orton do the gimmick and character better than Roberts or Austin. Oh god, no. But he's gotten good enough at it.

 

As much as a pessimist I am (and I am one, I admit that), Orton is good as it good gets. I take it over John Cena "I went from a hardcore thug rapper to a good two-shoes Hogan copy".

 

The problem with Orton, and this is a problem with a lot of the guys, is WWE is unwilling to give a gimmick to a worker in which they can make as their own. This is why you get Dolph Zigglers, Zach Ryders, and your Ted Dibiase Jr's. They are only now realizing they made a huge mistake in such an idea.

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Beeker, you solicited an opinion and got one. I'm not going to argue this with you. Clearly you feel strongly about the guy, but you aren't making a convincing argument for much except that you don't like him. Other people do. That's just how it goes.

 

This... as much as I didn't feel he was worth it a couple years ago, this time around is a much better deal. I could feel it from the time he punted McMahan on. It might not be up other people's alley, but I don't see him in the same light that I did a few years back... He looks like a man now, and if they keep away from the childish tantrum's he used to throw, this time out could solidify him for the rest of his carreer.

 

It's really up to him and "them", if he stays relevant as he is today. Like I said, never could see him as a "grown folk" a few years back, but things have changed. I could say the same about a few of the people on the roster now.

 

Bryan Daniel could easily screw up by looking like a kid, for example. He's borderline for me, but I find the "underdog" position he finds himself in most of the time, comfortable.

 

Just a matter of preference... However, it's obvious when you hear the chants and the crowds no matter where they go, where the actual fans heart is. You can't deny any of that, no matter how much you hate him.

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I really like him. I think he's the most entertaining wrestler of this millenium, the best overall package. Is he the best at promos? No. Is he the best in-ring? No. Does he have the best look? No. But he's got the best average combined. And his finisher, the good old Diamond Cutter, is the best damn finisher in wrestling today. And he's grown really good at executing it, leading to some cool moments with reversals and stuff.

 

I'd love to see a stable with him, Jericho and The Miz - with the latter two doing most of the talking. That would make me watch RAW every week.

 

Yes, I suppose I'm an Orton mark.

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All kidding aside, for where he is on the card, he's got to be the worst wrestler in the history of wrestling. I've never seen anybody less qualified to be where they are. Literally.

 

His promos are atrocious. I wouldn't even call them promos. I've said it before, he looks like an actor that's in a rehearsal reading his script for the first time. No emphasis, no emotion, nothing extra, he's just saying the words. They've literally put me to sleep twice. And his wrestling...in all seriousness, is he the worst in ring wrestler to ever hold the WWE title? You could certainly make a compelling case that he is. He's easily the worst that I've seen in the 20 years I've been watching the WWE. He has no technical skills whatsoever, he's not a believable brawler, obviously he's not a flyer. He's an ok seller I guess. He doesn't have a great look, he's pretty much the definition of a generic wrestler in that regard.

 

He's the type of guy I would expect to be on NXT or Tough Enough because they need people to cut early. If somebody backstage really liked him, he's the type of guy I'd expect to be a regular on Superstars. He's basically an American version of Primo, with less talent in the ring and on the mic.

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Beeker, you solicited an opinion and got one. I'm not going to argue this with you. Clearly you feel strongly about the guy, but you aren't making a convincing argument for much except that you don't like him. Other people do. That's just how it goes.

 

I appreciate your input lazorbeak, I honestly do not get Orton's appeal but I'm willing to admit that it is there. You made some valid points and some I disagree with. I think I actually laid out more in my argument than 'me no likey Randy' but I wasn't trying to change anyone's opinion.

 

The great thing about Pro Wrestling is that anyone can be a fan's 'favourite wrestler.' It isn't about win/loss records, drawing power, merchandise sold, moveset or catchphrases. People like who they like.

 

You like Orton.

I do not.

I'm just trying to figure out his appeal. I don't know that I will but he is clearly one of the more divisive performers of recent memory.

 

***

Edit: Also Candyman, while I'm no Orton fan and feel he's been pushed above his abilities, I wouldn't call him anywhere near the worse title holder. David Arquette for one. Or for the WWE, the Great Khali springs readily to mind.

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And his wrestling...in all seriousness, is he the worst in ring wrestler to ever hold the WWE title? You could certainly make a compelling case that he is.

 

Are you kidding me? So you honestly think he's worse in-ring than people like Hulk Hogan, Yokozuna, Sid Vicious, Vince McMahon or John Cena?

 

I really really don't get the complaints about his work in the ring. Sure, he's no Bret Hart or Chris Jericho... but he's entertaining (imo) and always tries to bring his best.

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