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Matchups in Regular Matches


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Obviously in a submission match you look at both wrestlers' technical skills and in a brawl-based match you look at their rumble skills. What exactly happens in a regular match? Does each wrestler just use his strongest area for determining the match rating? If a technician wrestles a brawler would the brawler's lack of technical skills have a more detrimental effect on the match than if a brawler wrestled another brawler?

 

In short, for regular matches are their certain combinations that work better than others?

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<p>I'll weigh in with what I've seen, though more intelligent people will have more to say.</p><p> </p><p>

In short: No, brawlers can have good matches with technicians. Even without chemistry. Even in performance > popularity promotions.</p><p> </p><p>

I dunno <em>how,</em> as in, I don't know what one would look at. I'd assume it's some measure of the second-row skills. I'd hypothesize that there's some cap, roughly, to the best match one could have based off of the top row stats, though.</p><p> </p><p>

For instance, has anyone gotten, say, a 70+ rated match out of a guy with 50s on the top row? Or rather, two people with max of 50 on the top row?</p>

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I'm not too worried about numbers, just wondering how the top row stats get implemented.

 

Do workers naturally work better with similar opponents?

 

Would two brawlers wrestling each other be punished for their very low technical skills, or would the match be graded solely on their brawling skills?

 

In a regular match are you better off with a specialist (great brawler, terrible technician) or someone who's pretty good at everything?

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I'll weigh in with what I've seen, though more intelligent people will have more to say.

 

In short: No, brawlers can have good matches with technicians. Even without chemistry. Even in performance > popularity promotions.

 

I dunno how, as in, I don't know what one would look at. I'd assume it's some measure of the second-row skills. I'd hypothesize that there's some cap, roughly, to the best match one could have based off of the top row stats, though.

 

For instance, has anyone gotten, say, a 70+ rated match out of a guy with 50s on the top row? Or rather, two people with max of 50 on the top row?

 

I know, for a fact, I've gotten at least one A rated match out of a guy (Bill Popinowski) whose highest top row stat was a low D+, with also a D and then everything else in E- territory.

 

As for the second... not sure, I'd have to go back and look at my APWF game which isn't on this computer (thought it is on a flash drive, as I'm not gonna be back on my desktop for a week!). However, I do know I got at least an A rated match, and several B and B+s, out of Terry Lambert and Sam Strong, with Terry probably having a high of a D+ in his top row (and everything else MUCH lower) and Sam Strong probably had around a C- at the time for his highest (and, again, rest of the top row much lower.) And, of course, in 2008 I ended up booking Bam Bam Johansson in some B+ matches and Boris Kiriyakin even hit a B once.

 

So... I'd say yes, you probably CAN get 70+ rated matches out of two guys with D+ish level skill in their best top row stat(s). And you can most certainly do it with one guy at that level because, hey, Bill Popinowski: A rated match. Sure, he's improved nicely in his time with APWF, but he's still pretty awful.

 

Odds are it's a feat you'll only accomplish in popularity based companies (though I wouldn't rule out balanced and performance based as overness is still a factor in those), as being at least relatively over is what lead to all those good match grades from awful workers, but it is most certainly doable.

 

I'll say it again: I booked Bill Popinowski in an A rated match. Go load up/download the 70s CVerse and see how awful he is if you'd like. :D

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I'm not too worried about numbers, just wondering how the top row stats get implemented.

 

Do workers naturally work better with similar opponents?

 

Would two brawlers wrestling each other be punished for their very low technical skills, or would the match be graded solely on their brawling skills?

 

In a regular match are you better off with a specialist (great brawler, terrible technician) or someone who's pretty good at everything?

 

As for this... not 100% sure. Though I do believe it's been confirmed at some point that workers work best against similarly styled opponents.

 

That said, the rest? No real clue. Personally, I think I'd rather have the guy with B+ brawling than the guy with Ds and D+ across the board, though. For starters, the "well rounded" guy at that level probably can't "go all out". Second, the B+ guy can teach nearly anyone how to brawl better, and helping people reach that high of any top row skill is an invaluable asset. Last... at the very least, the B+ guy will ROCK against other brawlers in a brawl based match, that much I know for a fact.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say match grades from a worker are based primarily on their strengths, with the lower stats being secondary, or at the very least a more rounded worker is more capable out of getting good matches out of any style, not just the ones they specialize in.

 

That said, I personally would prefer they guy who is one of the best in the world in one area than a guy who is average across the board. You can find Ace Youngblood types all over the place.... but their aren't too many Rhino Umagas out there.

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That said, I personally would prefer they guy who is one of the best in the world in one area than a guy who is average across the board. You can find Dan Stone Jr. types all over the place.... but their aren't too many Jeremy Stones out there.

 

Edited to ask a question/make a point: Ignoring that both are absolutely godly...or perhaps, the fact that they are, it's an interesting underlying conversation I've seen across topics. Who's the better Stone?

 

I'm for Jeremy; I'm predisposed for technical skills, so...yeah. But I think most people (slight majority) prefer Danny. Maybe it's because I suck at training people up, but I really like having high stats, even if it's only one area.

 

Yet I like hiring all-rounders :confused:

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Dan's technical skills are just below Jeremy's, and he has awesome rumble as well as entertainment stats. Dan all of the way for me. Never been big enough for either, though.
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I would suggest that in a regular match, the focus will be on the workers putting on a good match, based on their specific skills. A lot of any regular match will be training-school basic - chinlocks and clotheslines and other staples that every worker in the world is expected to be able to do.

 

What a worker then brings to the table is their own unique skills - be they brawling, technical or whatever. That's what makes a match stand out. As a for example, look at the members of the Nexus - half a dozen cookie-cutter guys fresh out of development who generally have the basics down pat, but who don't have the distinctiveness to stand out even against people like Dolph Ziggler who's got a couple of years in the pros over them. A great opponent can cover for their opponent's inadequacies (see Flair, Hart, Michaels) but two guys who're average will have a match that's, well, average.

 

So as far as I know it's possible to have a good match out of a guy with no real strengths, provided he has decent second row stats.

 

On the flipside, I'd say that a guy with good top row stats but nothing much on the second row will get penalised for a lack of flow, stamina or whatever. Book Kamikaze Christian Vars (A for aerial) against someone like Giant Redwood to see the problems here.

 

I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.

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I would suggest that in a regular match, the focus will be on the workers putting on a good match, based on their specific skills. A lot of any regular match will be training-school basic - chinlocks and clotheslines and other staples that every worker in the world is expected to be able to do.

 

What a worker then brings to the table is their own unique skills - be they brawling, technical or whatever. That's what makes a match stand out. As a for example, look at the members of the Nexus - half a dozen cookie-cutter guys fresh out of development who generally have the basics down pat, but who don't have the distinctiveness to stand out even against people like Dolph Ziggler who's got a couple of years in the pros over them. A great opponent can cover for their opponent's inadequacies (see Flair, Hart, Michaels) but two guys who're average will have a match that's, well, average.

 

So as far as I know it's possible to have a good match out of a guy with no real strengths, provided he has decent second row stats.

 

On the flipside, I'd say that a guy with good top row stats but nothing much on the second row will get penalised for a lack of flow, stamina or whatever. Book Kamikaze Christian Vars (A for aerial) against someone like Giant Redwood to see the problems here.

 

I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

Now now...

 

Justin Gabriel has a very solid moveset to his name, much more than the basic stuff.

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I would suggest that in a regular match, the focus will be on the workers putting on a good match, based on their specific skills. A lot of any regular match will be training-school basic - chinlocks and clotheslines and other staples that every worker in the world is expected to be able to do.

 

What a worker then brings to the table is their own unique skills - be they brawling, technical or whatever. That's what makes a match stand out. As a for example, look at the members of the Nexus - half a dozen cookie-cutter guys fresh out of development who generally have the basics down pat, but who don't have the distinctiveness to stand out even against people like Dolph Ziggler who's got a couple of years in the pros over them. A great opponent can cover for their opponent's inadequacies (see Flair, Hart, Michaels) but two guys who're average will have a match that's, well, average.

 

So as far as I know it's possible to have a good match out of a guy with no real strengths, provided he has decent second row stats.

 

On the flipside, I'd say that a guy with good top row stats but nothing much on the second row will get penalised for a lack of flow, stamina or whatever. Book Kamikaze Christian Vars (A for aerial) against someone like Giant Redwood to see the problems here.

 

I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

So would two brawlers in a regular match be little different than two brawlers in a brawl-based match since in both cases the match rating would be determined by their brawl stats? Or might there be some sort of multiplier added to their brawl stats due to having a brawl-based match? If two brawlers have a regular match will their atrocious technical and aerial skills simply not matter?

 

Certainly in the long run you'd much rather have a worker who is great at one thing because he can train others or develop his other skills, but in a one-off match do you want the guy who is 90 in brawling and 20 in technical or the guy who is 80 in brawling and 65 in technical? If the match rating is determined by his strongest category you want the specialist. If the match rating takes into account all his wrestling skills then maybe you want the jack-of-all trades.

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Now now...

 

Justin Gabriel has a very solid moveset to his name, much more than the basic stuff.

 

I was going to say (excluding Barrett and Gabriel) but I didn't want to get into debating it too much. My point stands for Darren Young, Heath Slater and the others (Skip Sheffield's lariat aside).

 

Anyway, I believe that a brawl-based match makes that aspect of the worker's game the key focus of the match, like doing a brand split and saying one brand will be mainstream-focused, and the other traditional-focused.

 

How that impacts on a match featuring workers with A* brawling and F- everything else I don't know. I have to stress that this is all supposition - I could have a house of cards missing a Jack of Spades here...

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