Evaluating theOption Running Game.

[coachcbj]

Ok last night I did a test of running the option. I ran the option every pla7 out of three different formations (FLEXBONE, WISHBONE, and I FORM) Hes what I see. 1. There are too many big losses. There are hardly ever 7 yard losses on an option team unless the is a mishandled pitch. And I had 4 of them in one game. But I do have to say maybe it was done for balance. Because the final yards per carry were pretty accurate. 2. The Carries are WAY WAY WAY off. In the option the FULLBACK is actually the focus of the offense not the QB or running back. I have ran two games and in neither did the FB get more than 9 carries. My QBs splitting time because of injury had a combined 11 carries at the most. With the RBs rotating getting well over 45 per game. Thats not the Option at all. The option works inside/out. On its best day the FB should have the most carries. On its second best day the QB should have the most carries. Too many video games depicting the option do this(give the RB most of the carries). Think about it. The RB is the last of the 3 options. So he would naturally get the ball as the last resort. Not more than anyone else. Now I know there are other factors like the defense and my O-line. But still a true option offense would be alot more balanced. 3. I also noticed that my #2 QB gave the ball to FB more and kept it himself more, my #1 QB almost always pitched it. Now looking at their attributes there almost Identical except for one thing AGRESSIVENESS(93 vs 61). So Arlie, if youre are there can you answer this. I know you said instints play a role in his decision making, but does agressiveness as well? My #2 is also have better agility and acceleration. Does that make difference? They are almost identical in Running, Instints, and Speed. But if this is going to be a true option offense, they FULLBACK needs to get the ball alot more. Maybe my O-line has something to do with it too. The right side sucks! I was doing all this with air Force, I will try it with a powerhouse team and run several more test. 4. Also if you set up your playbook to run just option plays and give it to the FB 90% of the time, that wont work. Your coahc will adjust and just call the pro set sweep play to the FB to get his outside carries evewn though its not suppose to be in my playbook. 5. Lastly, Arlie-when you add plays that go to the left and plays for the WB to get carries how will that be set up in the strategy? Meaning will it be RB/WB carries %. Or will WB have its own column. Kind of like the passing game were it says TE/WB target %? Ok thanks again Arlie. I hope you dont think on ragging on your game. I love this game. Im just adding my input.

[SkyDog]

I mentioned FB carries to Arlie just yesterday, and he mentioned when I received the latest build that it addressed "most of the stuff we talked about." I haven't checked on this yet, though.

[Arlie Rahn]

The carries for WB are grouped in with fullbacks and I am working on getting FBs/WBs more carries (as Ben stated before). I will also look at the primary, secondary, ... players for the option plays. I think most are setup to be RB, QB, FB (in that order) and that may be one of the reasons for more pitches to the RB.

[coachcbj]

Thanks Skydog. If you get chance to report if the FB is getting more carries that would be very much appreciated. Arlie, thanks again for all your hard work to making tis game right.

[sean705]

Hey Coach, great observation! I'd like to do a little testing with this myself. I'm fairly familiar with the option offense, but having said that I'd like to add a little to what you said in your post. [QUOTE=coachcbj] 1. There are too many big losses. There are hardly ever 7 yard losses on an option team unless the is a mishandled pitch. And I had 4 of them in one game. But I do have to say maybe it was done for balance. Because the final yards per carry were pretty accurate. [/QUOTE] You couldn't be more right on this one. [QUOTE=coachcbj] 2. The Carries are WAY WAY WAY off. In the option the FULLBACK is actually the focus of the offense not the QB or running back. I have ran two games and in neither did the FB get more than 9 carries. My QBs splitting time because of injury had a combined 11 carries at the most. With the RBs rotating getting well over 45 per game. Thats not the Option at all. The option works inside/out. On its best day the FB should have the most carries. On its second best day the QB should have the most carries. Too many video games depicting the option do this(give the RB most of the carries). Think about it. The RB is the last of the 3 options. So he would naturally get the ball as the last resort. Not more than anyone else. Now I know there are other factors like the defense and my O-line. But still a true option offense would be alot more balanced. [/QUOTE] This point I would dissagree just a little with. While you are 100% correct in saying that the option runs inside/out, I dissagree with the assertion that the Fullback is the focus. The Quarterback is really the focus of the Option. The reason is this: The QB is responsible for all the reads, and determines where the ball is going. In the triple option, he has to make three "reads". The first is the Fullback read (has a hole opened up for the FB?), the second is the Defensive end read (is the DE playing off? or is he pinching in? If he's playing off, the QB should take it upfield, pinches in he pitches it) The third read is the Corner Back, has the BC been blocked by the reciever? Is he out of position? Should I make a downfield pitch or do I have enough room to get a decient gain? Also, a true option team runs the option out of multiple looks, not all of those formations have a FB in it. This being said, I've just stated why option offenses are so hard to accuratly depict in a sim game or any other game. The main factor in the option should be the QB's intelligence rating (is he making the correct reads?) And as far as carries, the fullback's carries should depend on the relative ratings of the interior linemen, and the NT/DT, and the ILB's while the QB/RB should depend on the DE's and the CB/Safties. All this combined with the QB's intellect rating (making the correct read should depend on this). All that being said, I'd like to test this out as well when the new demo is released.

[Miral]

I don't know if this is covered in the game or not, but it would be nice to be able to dictate which player in the option is the most important. If you have a fantastic QB (Vick), and an average RB and FB, the qb should take it most of the time, if there's a fantastic FB but an average QB, the FB would get the pitch most of the time. If the game doesn't account for this internally, it would be nice to have an option for the option so we could set the percentage of focus manually.

[coachcbj]

Sean I agree that the QB is the vocal point of any option offense. Maybe I should have stated myself differently. Usually in the option, at least at the college level, The FB will have the most carries over the course of the season. Look at Air Force and Navy. Last Year, Kyle Eckel was a monster at FB for Navy. And Air Force has two Good young FB now.

[Druez]

About two years ago when Navy had that stud QB. They were undefeated going against Notre Dame if I remember correctly. Anyway, the QB was definately the focal point of that offense.

[coachcbj]

I have that game on tape. Again that was Kyle Eckel the FB. He rushed for over a 100 yards and a TD that day. The announcer even makes the statement on one of his moves, that he just hit the "L" button when he juked someday after going thru the hole. Notre Dame pretty much bottled up Polanco (the QB). Polanco had a good day throwing the ball off play action. It a nice seam route to set up 1st a goal. And a play action post route. They also ran a sweet tackle eligible play to the TE lined up a tackle late in the game that I thought would seal the win. They should have one but lost 27-24. The problem at the academies isnt offense, its defense. They just get worn down by the bigger schools over 4 quarters. That have a hard to making stops in the 4th quarters.

[sean705]

[QUOTE=coachcbj]Sean I agree that the QB is the vocal point of any option offense. Maybe I should have stated myself differently. Usually in the option, at least at the college level, The FB will have the most carries over the course of the season. Look at Air Force and Navy. Last Year, Kyle Eckel was a monster at FB for Navy. And Air Force has two Good young FB now.[/QUOTE] Coach, As I am a HUGE Navy fan I have to say that I agree with you, Kyle Eckle is the man! And you are 100% correct, he did get the majority of the carries in the past few seasons. And I agree that the FB does get the majority of the carries in the college option game. My only concern is that the sim is unobjectivly biased on one position. If you look at Navy this year, the QB Owens got the majority of the carries and was the leading rusher. While the FB Hall did a great job of filling in for someone like Kyle Eckle, he wasn't as good, and Owens had to know that. Thus you saw a shift away from the FB. Like I said, I don't disagree with your point that often the FB gets the most carries, I just don't want to see the sim un-objectivly giving the FB the most carries on some sort of slider setting (unless this slider is user controled). I think that the sim should take all factors into play when deciding who gets the majority of the carries.

[coachcbj]

[QUOTE=sean705]Coach, As I am a HUGE Navy fan I have to say that I agree with you, Kyle Eckle is the man! And you are 100% correct, he did get the majority of the carries in the past few seasons. And I agree that the FB does get the majority of the carries in the college option game. My only concern is that the sim is unobjectivly biased on one position. If you look at Navy this year, the QB Owens got the majority of the carries and was the leading rusher. While the FB Hall did a great job of filling in for someone like Kyle Eckle, he wasn't as good, and Owens had to know that. Thus you saw a shift away from the FB. Like I said, I don't disagree with your point that often the FB gets the most carries, I just don't want to see the sim un-objectivly giving the FB the most carries on some sort of slider setting (unless this slider is user controled). I think that the sim should take all factors into play when deciding who gets the majority of the carries.[/QUOTE] Good point. I just think the instint rating should come into play as much as possible. And the game should work inside out. 1. Should I give it up to the FB 2. Can I cut it upfield. 3. I should pitch it. As it stands right now, Arlie said he had the order RB, QB, then FB. But the Fb and RB should be flipped. I know formulated this into a game is very hard to do. The only game that does it accurately that I know of is Dolphin Sims text sim college game. Its only game I know pf that depicts the option perfectly, but its not nearly the complete game this game is. I am sure Arlie, who has been great in responding to my questions about the option game, will do everything he can to make it a realistic as possible.

[sean705]

I can't wait to get home today and try out the new demo and see what Arlie's done with the option!

[coachcbj]

[QUOTE=sean705]I can't wait to get home today and try out the new demo and see what Arlie's done with the option![/QUOTE] Are you a tester? Or is there a new demo out I dont know about?

[SkyDog]

[QUOTE=coachcbj]Are you a tester? Or is there a new demo out I dont know about?[/QUOTE]top of this forum [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8690[/url]

[coachcbj]

Nevermind! I see it! Dang it I have to get ready for work right now. I'll play it tonight! Woo Hoo!